Sinn Fein/IRA members found with list of TDs

rien_du_tout

Rock Climber wrote:

SF mep's joining the communist grouping in the European parliament didn't impress me either. They should come out and say they are communists when they are on the doorstep looking for votes and not be mis representing themselves as mere socialists.

Just to address this firstly, What party in Ireland actually tells us what grouping their in?? FF are linked to a post facist party in Italy, think they're gonna shout about that? Anyhow its not the same as saying what political party u belong to coz that might actually influence u in that u need their money and support to get elected. Dont think the communist grouping will be having much control over SF!

Personally I find the fact that the items found were intended for criminal use or punishment beatings much more disturbing than whether they were popping in for a pint & keeping an eye on Mr. O'Donoghue! As people have already said the info they had is pretty freely available. No mention of whether the lists were hand written or from a website or something.

I think SF shouldnt be afraid to get rid of those who commit crimes for personal gain or in the guise of republicanism. Spying on the otherhand is a useful political tool when done when legal grounds. Remember that "spy ring" in storment........ has anyone actually ever been convicted in relation to that? Not as far as I know. The SF members involved are then presumed innocent but this spy ring was blown out of all proportion to further the unionist cause and shut down the assembly.

Since people seem to be telling us how they'll vote guess I should say I'm a SF voter but that would vote labour if I felt that they were moving away from socialist policies to be more populist.......which I believe will happen but hopefully after the united Ireland agenda has been completed.

seán

shltter

firstly I'am a republican

this is why the IRA needs to disarm and dissolve other wise it will go the road of the stickies towards criminality and protection rackets and printing their own money or further down that road than they already are

second having a list of politicians so what they were not targetting them to kill them
just to see what they are up to
this is done all over the world and i can gaurantee you Sinn Fein politicians are being followed and bugged and spied on we all know they are so what if they want to know about other politicians

lastly surely we should not have people convicted of anything based on secret reports that they can not see or dispute I wouldn't fancy anyones chances in a court where the judge looks at a secret file then decides on your guilt

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hydrosylator

As long as Sinn Féin exist, the gun will be a part of Irish politics. Anyone who beleives those within Sinn Féin don't know which of their members are also in the IRA is naive.

They are an organisation which continues to profit from crime. Sinn Féin puts on the Gandhi face in public and in the media, but we all know that they are the public part of the same circle which includes the IRA and the RIRA. If you think Gerry Adams has no idea who was behind the Omagh bombing, you're a fool. Do you really think he has no idea? Do you really think he couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to?

And just how rubbish the IRA/Sinn Féin really are has been demonstrated by how little hash they've been getting into the country lately. (drought)As we all know, this is a bunch of people who felt the pinch after 9/11, when Irish-americans realised what terrorists do. No more tins of cash going home.

Villain

Hydrosylator wrote:

They are an organisation which continues to profit from crime. Sinn Féin puts on the Gandhi face in public and in the media, but we all know that they are the public part of the same circle which includes the IRA and the RIRA. If you think Gerry Adams has no idea who was behind the Omagh bombing, you're a fool. Do you really think he has no idea? Do you really think he couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to?

Any evidence to back those claims up?

A Dub in Glasgo

Hydrosylator wrote:

As long as Sinn Féin exist, the gun will be a part of Irish politics. Anyone who beleives those within Sinn Féin don't know which of their members are also in the IRA is naive.

They are an organisation which continues to profit from crime. Sinn Féin puts on the Gandhi face in public and in the media, but we all know that they are the public part of the same circle which includes the IRA and the RIRA. If you think Gerry Adams has no idea who was behind the Omagh bombing, you're a fool. Do you really think he has no idea? Do you really think he couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to?

And just how rubbish the IRA/Sinn Féin really are has been demonstrated by how little hash they've been getting into the country lately. (drought)As we all know, this is a bunch of people who felt the pinch after 9/11, when Irish-americans realised what terrorists do. No more tins of cash going home.

Unsubstantiated rubbish. It is very easy to make up stuff and post it anonymously on the internet.

Xterminator

shltter wrote:

lastly surely we should not have people convicted of anything based on secret reports that they can not see or dispute I wouldn't fancy anyones chances in a court where the judge looks at a secret file then decides on your guilt

Funny thing about secret organisations like the IRA.

They dont post their membership details and illegal activites on the web.
Hence police must gain information by surveillance, infliltrating the groups, and by use of informants. And such activites must be kept partly secret as you cant expose your sources, if you want to continue to get useful intelligence on the groups in question.

I'm sure the IRA would love to just have to look at the book of evidence, and see here the Guards get their information from.

X

magpie

Any evidence to back those claims up?

IMC report?

Villain

magpie wrote:

IMC report?

LOL
where in the IMC report does it state SF's connect to the RIRA???

magpie

LOL
where in the IMC report does it state SF's connect to the RIRA???

So you admit that Sinn Fein and the IRA are connected?

Villain

magpie wrote:

So you admit that Sinn Fein and the IRA are connected?

LOL

Well if they weren't able to talk to them how would the Peace Process progress?? But being connected doesn't mean Gerry Adams is on the Army Council.

So you agree that SF have no connection with the RIRA.

magpie

Do you drop your link to the trad forum when you're discussing Sinn Fein?

As the Rira agus Rula Bula are a 'splinter group' from the IRA, it's unlikely that SF have any links with them, as Sinn Fein and the IRA are different facets of the same organisation.

Villain

magpie wrote:

Do you drop your link to the trad forum when you're discussing Sinn Fein?

As the Rira agus Rula Bula are a 'splinter group' from the IRA, it's unlikely that SF have any links with them, as Sinn Fein and the IRA are different facets of the same organisation.

LOL

No I just don't post my sig everytime I post in the same thread, saves space ;

I have seen no evidence that connects SF to the RIRA if you have any feel free to post it

Oh and heres my sig just for you (by the way it is posted in the other page of this thread)

magpie

I have seen no evidence that connects SF to the RIRA if you have any feel free to post it

Erm, did you read what I just said? Here it is again.

As the Rira agus Rula Bula are a 'splinter group' from the IRA, it's unlikely that SF have any links with them, as Sinn Fein and the IRA are different facets of the same organisation.

Let me know if you want that as gaeilge

Villain

As what?

Sorry read that in a hurry thought you said "it's NOT unlikely", glad we cleared that one up.

Mighty_Mouse

"unlikely" or "dont"?

So you admit that Sinn Fein and the IRA are connected?

Of course there are links!! I'm astounded ever time an anti-republican in here thinks they've found a stick to beat Sinn Fein supporters.

I mean FFS Who said there wasn't? McLoughlin, Kelly, Ferris, etc all senior members of the IRA and now senior members of Sinn Fein.

BUT before you jump and shout. Let me ask you: how else do you tackle a situation of hostility and war and move it towards a situation of peace without including the disaffected members of society?

These guys have all now dedicated nearly 20 years each to completely reforming the republican movement as a political struggle and in the meantime become a party that in a tangible way brings other disaffected members of society into the political system ie poor and disadvantaged, travellers, refugees etc

Sinn Fein is now a party which consists mainly of people who understand the frustration of unjust political representation and are actually sticking rigidly to their basic socialist principles.

So apart from my obvious admiration for the current leaders of Sinn Fein answer the following, where would Northern Ireland be today without them?

Elmo

From ionapaul

Well, I can promise that should any political organisation serving as a cover for loyalist terrorists (such as the PUP) come to my door seeking votes, I will give them the same time and respect I give Sinn Fein. Happy?

I assume from this u have great respect for Ian Palisley and Co.

ionapaul

Elmo wrote:

From ionapaul



I assume from this u have great respect for Ian Palisley and Co.

I honestly don't think about him or the DUP very much - they don't run candidates in the Republic of Ireland as far as I can tell. Never called to my door looking for votes in any case! Maybe I was out when they did...?

Mighty_Mouse

Well, I can promise that should any political organisation serving as a cover for loyalist terrorists (such as the PUP) come to my door seeking votes, I will give them the same time and respect I give Sinn Fein. Happy?

So you dont diffentiate between those organisations with lasting cease-fires, decommishing, full participation in political, peaceful talks and those organisations which do not?

Again - what is your suggestion for ending hostility in a war zone?

Dont talk to anybody involved?

magpie

Admittedly you do have to respect that the IRA has 'scaled down' it's activity to just carrying out its basic criminal tasks of robbery, extortion, counterfeiting and administering punishment beatings. That to me shows a clear determination to find a peaceful and democratic solution to the problems in the North. And, sure, they've got to do something for a living now the 'War' is over, and they can't all become MEPs.

ionapaul

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

So you dont diffentiate between those organisations with lasting cease-fires, decommishing, full participation in political, peaceful talks and those organisations which do not?

Again - what is your suggestion for ending hostility in a war zone?

Dont talk to anybody involved?

So now you want us to be grateful to the IRA / Sinn Fein for their "sacrifices" for peace? Pretty rich. "Look at us! We have stopped the bombing of English children and the murder of Gardai! Be grateful!" - all the while, the hidden undertone remains "our guns and bombs haven't gone away and we KNOW how to use them - now be nice to us"
The ever-quotable Lincoln had a great one about a highway man with a gun to your head, who warns should you fail to give him what he wants, he will kill you and *you* will be responsible for your murder! No I am not grateful to the IRA for acting a little (just a little, of course) more like democrats recently.

Mighty_Mouse

I've absolutely no problem with sarcastic, sceptical attitudes as long as they're not mis-leading or deliberatly mis-informing debates.

So in terms of where the IRA are today versus 20 years ago. Would you describe it as:
small changes = "scaled down"
or
huge changes = "decomissioning, apologies to innocent victims,lasting ceasefire, "war is over" etc etc

That to me shows a clear determination to find a peaceful and democratic solution to the problems in the North.

Lets rephrase: Have the IRA shown a clear determination to find a peaceful and democratic solution to the problems in the North?
YES or NO

If not, why even talk to Sinn Fein? The vast majority of northern politicians (representing northern communities) think differently. Why do you believe you are in the minority?

basic criminal tasks of robbery, extortion, counterfeiting and administering punishment beatings

You have a problem with crime. Dont we all? However do you not think the above incidents are becoming few and far between. Consider 7-8 years ago versus 2004. Also is it not strange that the gardai have been unable to convict even one IRA man of the above? Suggest to me the occur even less often than reported in the INDO.

ps
punishment beatings in north solved only through acceptable policing reform.

So now you want us to be grateful to the IRA / Sinn Fein for their "sacrifices" for peace?

No I actually don't. Hate the IRA and Sinn Fein all you can. Encourage every person you meet to hate them passionately. Only vote for politicians who hate them venomently and in the meantime................take yourself back to 1980 and suggest to me how you go about solving the Northern Irish crisis.

Villain

*

ionapaul wrote:

So now you want us to be grateful to the IRA / Sinn Fein for their "sacrifices" for peace? Pretty rich. "Look at us! We have stopped the bombing of English children and the murder of Gardai! Be grateful!" - all the while, the hidden undertone remains "our guns and bombs haven't gone away and we KNOW how to use them - now be nice to us"
The ever-quotable Lincoln had a great one about a highway man with a gun to your head, who warns should you fail to give him what he wants, he will kill you and *you* will be responsible for your murder! No I am not grateful to the IRA for acting a little (just a little, of course) more like democrats recently.

* Another bash SF thread begins.

SF are a peaceful organisation who are trying to ensure the Good Friday Agreement is fully implemented, an agreement that was passed by majority on both sides of the border. If SF weren't present that agreement would never be implemented, the same can be said for the DUP.

I don't like what the IRA or the UVF have done in the past but why should that stop me from supporting SF and hopoing that they can go into power with the DUP. If we all had your opinion we would never move forward.

Meh

irish1 wrote:

SF are a peaceful organisation

If they're so peaceful what are they doing with "a sledgehammer, two pick axe handles, 8 bags of ties, radios, a black balaclava, rubber gloves and a yellow flurorescent Garda jacket, false number plates, a stun gun, CS gas and a roll of black tape"?

Elmo

I beleive that the grounds on which the IRA was set up are basically dead.

The Unionist have come to the table to allow Nationalist and Catholics take part in political life with out the use of scare tactics. (The UVF + co. grounds removed)

The IRA are basically dead, but you are always going to have gang warfare.

You have it in Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway etc just however rather then hiding behind a good excuse (i.e. Rights and Equality etc) they are just mad animals.

When the good excuse is taken away (i.e. Rights and Equality etc), the reason behind the IRA becomes less clear cut.

It allows us in the new millenium to see the IRA, UDA and UVF as simply gangs no more, no less. No propose required for having a gang. Only one, to kill the other gangs.

The unionist gangs have split up (UDA, INLA, UVF) even more and fight among themselves, while the IRA goes about with their "Vigulantism".

Basically now is the time of the British and Irish Governments not to regonise these people as terrorist or "freedom fighters", no the Gardi and PSNI need to just look at them as Gang Members.

Everyone on the Island of Ireland has been badly treated, currently we are in a millienum of fear and hate. (Weather you talk about Iraq or the so called IRA).

SF need to draw the line now. it is certainly time.

However the media does not help things by giving front page coverage to Fear which will eventually lead us back to where we where 20 odd years ago.

Its time to just get on with things.

Well, I can promise that should any political organisation serving as a cover for loyalist terrorists (such as the PUP) come to my door seeking votes, I will give them the same time and respect I give Sinn Fein. Happy?

So again I assume form this if Ian Paisley + co. showed up on your door looking for a vote you would happly discuss Ireland, Economics, the Euro etc etc and prob shake his hand.

IMO there are only two political partys that you can trust the greens and the SDLP.

Raskolnikov

Meh wrote:

If they're so peaceful what are they doing with "a sledgehammer, two pick axe handles, 8 bags of ties, radios, a black balaclava, rubber gloves and a yellow flurorescent Garda jacket, false number plates, a stun gun, CS gas and a roll of black tape"?

The man found with those goodies does not speak for or represent the actions of every member of Sinn Féin. If that were so, then we'd be seeing Mary Lou in Strasbourg chasing down fat German bureaucrats with a baseball bat.

Meh

Raskolnikov wrote:

The man found with those goodies does not speak for or represent the actions of every member of Sinn Féin.

As far as I know, Sinn Fein haven't disciplined or expelled these members (I'm open to correction here). So it would seem that this sort of behaviour is perfectly acceptable as far as Sinn Fein are concerned.

(Even the crooks in Fianna Fail managed to kick Liam Lawlor out, for god's sake.)

ionapaul

Elmo wrote:

So again I assume form this if Ian Paisley + co. showed up on your door looking for a vote you would happly discuss Ireland, Economics, the Euro etc etc and prob shake his hand.

IMO there are only two political partys that you can trust the greens and the SDLP.

F**kin' hell you are obsessed with Paisley, arn't you? Alright, for your benefit I'll be clear - I dislike Paisley and wouldn't vote for any DUP candidates should they decide to run for election in the Republic of Ireland. Happy now?

ionapaul

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

Hate the IRA and Sinn Fein all you can. Encourage every person you meet to hate them passionately.

Ahh, finally we are in agreement - one of those 'let us agree to disagree' type of situations! I'll go on hating the IRA then, you can go on viewing them through rose-tinted glasses and we'll all be happy.

Elmo

F**kin' hell you are obsessed with Paisley, arn't you? Alright, for your benefit I'll be clear - I dislike Paisley and wouldn't vote for any DUP candidates should they decide to run for election in the Republic of Ireland.

No it was just that you brought up the PUP and Espically since you pointed out that Paisley etc don't put up cadindates for the dail, I don't remember the PUP have candidates either.

Originally Posted by Mighty_Mouse
Hate the IRA and Sinn Fein all you can. Encourage every person you meet to hate them passionately.
Mighty_Mouse

Can I do that for the PD's? Cause i hate them. (i JUST HATE THEM) :mad: