Congratulations Shels

SteM

jank wrote:

Touched a nerve have i?

Not particularly, just thought I'd point out how inaccurate your statment was.

jank wrote:

Im just saying that the so called real reds of ireland have crap home attendences while the village are the best supported team in the country.
Thats a fact isnt?

Now you're talking about facts? Don't know why, you certainly didn't bother in your first post. The problem with Forums like this is that someone that has little knowledge of a subject can come on here and state something as fact - ie you implying that Shels draw a very low crowd by saying

'Well at least the village can get break the 4 figure mark in terms of attendances'

when it is not true. Other people who have simliar knowledge of the eL read it as fact and the myth gets perpetuated. That doesn't do a club or the league in general any good. Do you deny my statement

Shelbourne have a regular, vocal crowd and it's nowhere near as bad as some make out. Also, poor attendances are a problem for the whole league not just one team in particular.

or would you not know?

And dont even use the excuse of 20 odd thousand watching shelbourne in europe as the vast majority of them were EL supporters and football supporters in general.

What excuse? You brought up the European match not me so don't go off on a tangent. If I had have wanted to mention it I would have done so in my first post.

LizardKing

Cork City are the only Cork team in the Eircom Premier league , Shelbourne are one of 4-5 Dublin teams in the league. If there was 1 Dublin team then they'd probably get the crowds Cork City get (hypothethically speaking of course)

Also I'm hoping the eircom league will get a bit of a marketing boost next season and try to sell and build hype about upcoming fixtures .. they've tried to advertise matches via radio and billboards around the city (dublin), but I think next season they should try other avenues ... perhaps household leaflet distribution (near the grounds)... special group discounts on tickets / entrance ... kids free offers etc. They really need to work on building up support with adults and especially the young kids...

jank

OK see it was a joke but obviously you left your sense of humour at tolka park) I was responding to Seansouth statement about the V in CVFC.

Now i could have come back and gotten all high and mighty with him about the Dublin bias fo refs and the FAI and how Cork is a true city that generates substantial resources to soccer in ireland interms of players (Roy keane is god down here!), fans and finances etc etc etc......

No i took it with a bit of salt and stated an exagerated(And i know what kind of attendances they get!) fact that shels are not one of the best supported teams in the country and tbh its far from it!
The fact is the Cork City IS the best EL supported team, and i dont hear you dispute that cause you know damm well its true.

Its astonishing with the players and resources that shels have that they struggle to break 3,000 per game. I know attendences are a problem for the league in general but since shelbourne are the leading lights of the league shouldnt they get their asses out and try and get as many as possible through the turnstiles to raise the profile of the league as a whole. That is there responsibility!

If your talking about myth then people who tune in to watch a top dublin derby of shels vs bohs and see the ground more than half empty what do they think. Also in the terms of myths why did shels bring only 1,500 to richmond park to see them win the league while city had up to 10,000 for an outside chance of them to win the league. Ok it was an away game but its not like miles away in a place like derry or waterford, it was just over the river!!

And by the way i brought up europe becuse I know you would have thrown it in somewhere ot argue against the myth!. If you want forget I ever said it

jank

LizardKing wrote:

Cork City are the only Cork team in the Eircom Premier league , Shelbourne are one of 4-5 Dublin teams in the league. If there was 1 Dublin team then they'd probably get the crowds Cork City get (hypothethically speaking of course)
QUOTE]



Hypothethically speaking then dublin city should have a poplualtion of just over 200,000 and have a joke as their rival in the from of Cobh Ramblers

All things being equal of course!!

However i agree with the future marketing of the league

LizardKing

In reality, "Dublin City" has a population of ~495,781 , "Cork City" has ~123,062 (i)

So (1)

123,062 / 1 > 495,781 / 5

But the point i was getting at was, if there is less of a choice of team to support then the club has a better chance of picking up the new fan(s), irrespective of the total population figure...



(1) Apologies for the above just trying to back up my point of view

SteM

jank wrote:

OK see it was a joke but obviously you left your sense of humour at tolka park) I was responding to Seansouth statement about the V in CVFC.

Now i could have come back and gotten all high and mighty with him about the Dublin bias fo refs and the FAI and how Cork is a true city that generates substantial resources to soccer in ireland interms of players (Roy keane is god down here!), fans and finances etc etc etc......

No i took it with a bit of salt and stated an exagerated(And i know what kind of attendances they get!) fact that shels are not one of the best supported teams in the country and tbh its far from it!
The fact is the Cork City IS the best EL supported team, and i dont hear you dispute that cause you know damm well its true.

Its astonishing with the players and resources that shels have that they struggle to break 3,000 per game. I know attendences are a problem for the league in general but since shelbourne are the leading lights of the league shouldnt they get their asses out and try and get as many as possible through the turnstiles to raise the profile of the league as a whole. That is there responsibility!

If your talking about myth then people who tune in to watch a top dublin derby of shels vs bohs and see the ground more than half empty what do they think. Also in the terms of myths why did shels bring only 1,500 to richmond park to see them win the league while city had up to 10,000 for an outside chance of them to win the league. Ok it was an away game but its not like miles away in a place like derry or waterford, it was just over the river!!

And by the way i brought up europe becuse I know you would have thrown it in somewhere ot argue against the myth!. If you want forget I ever said it

I wanted to point out that you were wrong in what you said and I did whether you want to admit it or not. In neither of my 2 posts did I mention CCFC's attendances because I simply wanted to knock down your 'joke' about Shelbourne attendances, so I don't know why you keep on bring CCFC attendances up like it's going to make a big difference to me. I didn't bring up Europe and wasn't going to but it would seem that you know different .

However, I would like to point out 2 sites to you:

This site says that Cork's average attendance was 4147 in the year 2003 and that their top attendance was 6000:
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/2000/aveire.htm

This site says Cork City's population was 195400 people in 2004:
http://www.world-gazetteer.com/d/d_ie_co.htm

6000 v 190000.

LizardKing has already brought up the population V amount of clubs point so I'll not bother mentioning that, but it still doesn't excuse the fact that all eL teams are poorly supported when you consider the amount of people that could go and see them. My point is that when you have a top attendance in a league of poorly attended teams there's nothing to really boast about.

KdjaCL

SteM wrote:

Shelbourne have a regular, vocal crowd and it's nowhere near as bad as some make out.

It is as bad as some make out, actually far far worse.

Look at it this way , you have the best team in the league , you have the best stadium , you have the most money, yet of the 4 big dublin teams you have the lowest attds.
Rovers get more than shels and they have been ****ed for years. Pats Rovers and Bohs all know they have the fans its getting them out thats the problem, Shels dont have them thats a rather big problem.

But hopefully more sing when your winning fans like seansouth will start going, its bums on seats whichever way you look at it.

kdjac

SteM

KdjaC wrote:

It is as bad as some make out, actually far far worse.

Look at it this way , you have the best team in the league , you have the best stadium , you have the most money, yet of the 4 big dublin teams you have the lowest attds.

Where are you getting your stats/facts? Look at the link I posted, I'm going by that and in 2003 amongst Pats, Bohs and Shels there is a difference in the average of less than 400! Not that impressive really and not something that would make me boast if I was a fan of any other Dublin team.

If you're Cork, Shels or Bohs and you're pulling in averages of these amounts with the potential fan base available then there's something wrong with ALL teams support.

Eircom League Premier Division 2003

Club Average Highest

1 Cork City 4.147 6.000
2 St. Patrick's Athletic 2.971 5.500
3 Bohemians 2.741 6.800
4 Shelbourne 2.573 4.800
5 Waterford United 2.467 4.000
6 Derry City 2.265 3.800
7 Drogheda United 2.038 3.500
8 Shamrock Rovers 2.038 3.500
9 Longford Town 1.586 3.750
10 UC Dublin 783 1.400

KdjaCL

SteM wrote:

Where are you getting your stats/facts?

From going to the games for a long time, i have been to matches with bohs rovers and cork that where sold out.

I remember 3 times playing shels with near sell out crowds each and every time it was pats fans in a rather large majority.

You won the league last week and had about 800-900 fans in richer , still out numbered by a team 4th from bottom in last game of season.
Thing is as i said before a lot, we have the fans Bohs have the fans Cork have the fans , Rovers have them. Shels cannot atm even hope to fiill any 6k stadium with fans.

Really i hope next season you do get 4k+ home fans , its one of the things the league needs, a team to hate with massive support and wads of cash. knock on effect every team wants to beat you and there fans want to be there.

Look at every other top league and when the big club comes to town the stadiums are full.

kdjac

SteM

Okay, so you're working off your own guesstimates then, fair enough. KdjaC, Pats may have fans, Bohs may have the fans but the stats say they're not showing up to matches on a regular basis. I work down in Pearse Street, used to live in Ringsend and I know for a fact that there are Shels fans there that never go to matches anymore but you don't want to seem to take them into consideration at all.

I'm just going to make one more point on this thread and then I'll probably call it a day. You said in your last post that you thought there were 800-900 Shels fans in Richer, I would have out the number at about 1300-1500. Goes to show you how fans views of attendances can be coloured by who you support, doesn't it?

eirebhoy

SteM wrote:

I work down in Pearse Street, used to live in Ringsend and I know for a fact that there are Shels fans there that never go to matches anymore but you don't want to seem to take them into consideration at all.

I actually live just off Pearse Street and the only fans you'd see around here are Shels fans. There's not many Eircom League fans in the at all anyway. I suppose there would be more in Ringsend and Shels used to play there, or did they?

KdjaCL

eirebhoy wrote:

I actually live just off Pearse Street and the only fans you'd see around here are Shels fans. There's not many Eircom League fans in the at all anyway. I suppose there would be more in Ringsend and Shels used to play there, or did they?

They did indeed, Pats stand holds 2000 is full every week yet we only have attd of 1500 in papers and on websites

Can someone say tax dodge

kdjac

jank

I dont know how accurate that site is but ive made some calcuations of my own!

an average of 4,147 for Cork City (remember was a poor league campaign for them!)
an average of 2,573 for Shelbourne(They won the league!)
But City had an average of 62% more of an average attendence there then Shels.

But Cork have one club you say!
Ok and that there are 5 Senior Eircom league clubs in dublin.

Cork population from http://www.world-gazetteer.com/d/d_ie_co.htm
is 190,000

but from the same site Dubln's popultion is 1,027,900


1,027,900/5=205580

so per club dublin has an advantage of over 15,000!!!

Doesnt add up mate.

Everyone Knows that the best suported clubs in Dublin are Bohs, Rovers with Pats being up there too.

KdjaCL

jank wrote:

Ok and that there are 5 Senior Eircom league clubs in dublin.

6

kdjac

jank

Sorry forgot the mighty Dublin City but arent they relegated or is it a playoff against a 1st division side?

SteM

Jank, again you're missing my point completely. It doesn't matter to me whether CCFC, Pats, Bohs whoever have a higher attedance than Shels. The fact of the matter is they're still sh1te attendances compared to what they should /could be! No eL team has an attendance record to be proud of.

Also, I think doing calc that you've done is pointless. There are so many extra variables to take into consideration that you could never make something work like that out.

eirebhoy

jank, a lot of people in Cork would feel that Cork City are representing their county just like the Cork GAA team are. Also, I've noticed that when someone is from somewhere outside of Dublin (ie. Roy Keane) the whole county are proud while someone like Damien Duff is regarded by most Dubs as Irish and they couldn't give a toss if he's from Dublin once he's Irish. Sorry I can't explain it better but these are big factors in the attendances IMO.

Cork means more to the Cork people than Dublin does to Dublin people if you know what I mean and Cork City are basically representing the county of Cork in their eyes (while there isn't really a team representing Dublin).

Slash/ED

KdjaC wrote:

yet of the 4 big dublin teams you have the lowest attds.

That is a plain lie. We have the third highest attendence in the league, lower than something like 50 from Bohs and ahead of Pats and Rovers.

The rest of the stuff you're coming out with about Shels crowds is about as accurate that too.

"Pats stand holds 2000 is full every week"

No it isn't Not even close. Even against us, in your section on the Shed side there were empty seats. Look at TV3s footage, it's been half empty or worse many times this season. That was your biggest attendence of the season against us and it wasn't full. Stop lying.

therecklessone

Jebus lads, enough with the "my crowd is bigger than your crowd" bollockology already...

To my fellow Shels fans, they hate us and we should be proud. Well just keep winning leagues and signing all their best players on free transfers. Happy days.

One word for the ABSers...champions.

Big Ears

therecklessone wrote:

Jebus lads, enough with the "my crowd is bigger than your crowd" bollockology already...

To my fellow Shels fans, they hate us and we should be proud. Well just keep winning leagues and signing all their best players on free transfers. Happy days.

One word for the ABSers...champions.

OMG !!! , success does turn fans into prats .

jank

I think doing calc that you've done is pointless. There are so many extra variables to take into consideration that you could never make something work like that out.

So why bring it up??

I dont really care will just amuse me next season when Cork City are crowned champions and Shels suffer a players strike cause they have no money!
[joke!]

therecklessone

Big Ears wrote:

OMG !!! , success does turn fans into prats .

Not at all, my bitter little friend...now run along and feed on the scraps that Shels have left for the also-rans of the EL...

KdjaCL

therecklessone wrote:

Not at all, my bitter little friend...now run along and feed on the scraps that Shels have left for the also-rans of the EL...

Just keep on climbing up onto that pedestal lads higher and higher

Now enough EL over till day one when we all in with a shout of winning league , Get Pro Evo 4 and let your footie skills do the talking

kdjac

SteM

jank wrote:

So why bring it up??

jank I didn't. You were the one that did the calc. I brought up the 2 sites in the first place to prove that ALL eL attendances were crap.

KdjaCL

SteM wrote:

jank I didn't. You were the one that did the calc. I brought up the 2 sites in the first place to prove that ALL eL attendances were crap.

god still going on

UK 49 million people live there,every week 500,000 of pop watch football =.5%.
Eire 5 million , every week 25000 watch EL.


Take a guess what the percentage is for EL football watchers.

kdjac