GAA to seek €50m for ditching Rule 42

thejollyrodger

Looks like the GAA are looking for a sweetner to open up Croker ! Hopefully the money will be enough to open the stadium:)

GAA to seek €50m for ditching Rule 42
20/11/2004 - 13:34:26
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/11/20/story176813.html
The GAA will seek a grant of €50m from the Government if Rule 42, governing the opening up of Croke Park, is overturned at Congress next April.

GAA President Sean Kelly confirmed that his Association would seek the bursary from the Government to solve the stadium crisis that exists for rugby and soccer.

Kelly has also warned that the FAI and the IRFU would face hefty rental charges for the use of the stadium.

"There is no reason why we shouldn’t make a request for a further grant to help us clear off the debt on Croke Park," he said.

"We would be in a strong position to do so because if we offer to open up Croke Park, subject to certain conditions, the decision as to whether Irish rugby and soccer teams play overseas will then be up to others.

"Nobody can accuse us of not being good neighbours which will most certainly happen if our international teams end up playing in Britain while Croke Park remains closed."

Several counties look set to propose the removal of Rule 42 at Congress in April.

mike65

Ah blackmail, thats okay then...

Mike.

Danno

Fair enough - €50m is not too much to ask for. The govt have already squandered €250m on *bertie bowel*. The govt are sh1tting money anyways. if they get it well and good, if not it was worth a shot...

Villain

And I thought it wasn't about Money!!

As I have always said GAA = Grab All Association, but they can grab whatever they like as long as they open Croker up.

thejollyrodger

I think its fair enough. The FAI/IRFU are going to take most of the gate recipets and the GAA has be be looked after since it is more than a sport, its culture.

I still cant see soccer and rugby being played there just yet but if it comes down to a matter of just money I cant see the government holding back.

But 75,000 supporters at the France and Switzerland match would most likely help secure the two wins !!:)

Imposter

thejollyrodger wrote:

But 75,000 supporters at the France and Switzerland match would most likely help secure the two wins !!:)

You're dreaming if you think it'll be open for them OR that the FAI would want ot play there for those games seeing as lansdowne is still available.

Asking for an extra 50m is a bit sly tbh, seeing as it's quite likely to pass by congress anyways this year. In saying that the rents would be very high for the FAI and the IRFU, as it should be and I suppose this 50m would have the effect of lessening this rent.

I'm also surprised at the timing of this request as i'm sure the GAA will make sure that Lansdowne is being redeveloped before finally agreeing to letting the IRFU and the FAI play there.

eirebhoy

If this €50m does end up being paid I certainly hope Ireland play more than just the 4 Euro qualifiers there.

Imposter

eirebhoy wrote:

If this €50m does end up being paid I certainly hope Ireland play more than just the 4 Euro qualifiers there.

Do you mean friendlies while lansdowne is out of action or further qualifiers? If it's the later then they need to build lansdowne bigger if there is the demand for it. It would defeat the purpose of spending so much money on lansdowne if they were to move any game where they may get a full house in Lansdowne to Croker!

thejollyrodger

I think the government should give the GAA the €50million and play all rugby and soccer games there (games that are over the current capacity of lansdowne) until the new lansdowne road is complete. After that the can either go back to the way things were or play all games there over 50k simple.

DUB

irish1 wrote:

And I thought it wasn't about Money!!

As I have always said GAA = Grab All Association, but they can grab whatever they like as long as they open Croker up.

Grab all association ah yes, very original :rolleyes: The GAA is an amateur association, no chief exec's getting half a million euro pay offs or players getting paid wages their clubs can't afford. All the money goes back into the association, that is how they could afford to build the place in the first instance.

Sean Kelly needs to convince GAA members that opening up Croke Park is a beneficial move for the GAA, otherwise a lot of members are not interested in helping out what are essentially competing sports.

Unless there is a sound and hefty financial case to be made for opening it can you explane to me why GAA members should help out the IRFU or FAI?

DUB

eirebhoy wrote:

If this €50m does end up being paid I certainly hope Ireland play more than just the 4 Euro qualifiers there.

With all the asbestos in lansdowne the building is going to take a good bit longer then first thought, the work is supposed to start in 05 and end in 08?

Someone else said above 75,000 fans the capacity of croke park will be 82,000 very shortly.

You all talk about the GAA being money grabbing, why cant the FAI just bite the bullet and play in Tolka or Dalymount during rebuilding? Are they afraid of loosing a bit of money in the short term? Also the new ticket prices for the Ireland soccer Interntaionals are a disgrace, 50 bills for a lower west stand ticket for a meaningless friendly and 60 bills for a competitive match, including against the mighty Cyprus! Only the all Ireland final is anything like that expensive, who is ripping their supporters off?

DUB

Danno wrote:

Fair enough - €50m is not too much to ask for. The govt have already squandered €250m on *bertie bowel*. The govt are sh1tting money anyways. if they get it well and good, if not it was worth a shot...

Exactly, it is the government that has messed the FAI around over the whole Bertie Bowl, why are people giving the GAA grief?

Waylander

DUB wrote:

Grab all association ah yes, very original :rolleyes: The GAA is an amateur association, no chief exec's getting half a million euro pay offs or players getting paid wages their clubs can't afford. All the money goes back into the association, that is how they could afford to build the place in the first instance.

Sean Kelly needs to convince GAA members that opening up Croke Park is a beneficial move for the GAA, otherwise a lot of members are not interested in helping out what are essentially competing sports.

Unless there is a sound and hefty financial case to be made for opening it can you explane to me why GAA members should help out the IRFU or FAI?

The players are all amateur but you will find that there are full time staff working for the GAA, and I would imagine that some of them are on very good salaries. Also with the revenues playing International soccer and rugby games generate, I do not think there is much doubt about whether such a move would prove profitable for the GAA.

DUB

Yes, there is a small number of professional administrators on decent money but nothing like what Rooney was reported to be on.

It would be profitable assuming they charge the right rent, you are missing the point, profitable is not enough, Kelly needs to convince GAA members that the Benefits to the association would far outweigh the perceived disadvantages.

Waylander

The percieved disadvantages are not financial, they are historical. I do not think the old boys in the GAA would swing there opinion here for any money. As regards the administrators, just because the GAA keep things in house better then the FAI, it does not mean they do not pay as highly. I do not know what the top guys in there get, I'd be interested to find out, but I'd be surprised if there were not a few people on six figure salaries.

DUB

True some of the auld lads will never change their mind for historical reasons, as is their right.

The majority of people who are undecided, like myself, can balance the pros [financial, goodwill] and cons [why help raise the profile of competing sports] as they stand. I dont think the GAA should be happy with a small profit in rent from each game, however a financial boost of that size plus rent would almost get rid of the stadium debt. Then the GAA could spend future gate recipts elsewhere where they are needed ie. the promotion and development of hurling, setting up new clubs in Dublin in expanding suburbs etc.

I believe Liam Mulvihill, the Director General of the GAA, is on less then 100,000 euro per annum, I certainly wouldnt begrudge him more the job he has done.

Waylander

I agree, I would not begrudge him whatever he earns either. I think that the GAA could clear a bigger profit then you think on renting out the stadium, after all, they can set the price themselves, it is up to the other associations if they want to pay it. Also by doing this they would be depriving their rival associations of grass roots investment funds, and would in turn be investing it themselves.

DUB

Well maybe they could make a decent amount from rent, I'm just saying that a sweetener of that size up front makes the financial argument very much more compelling, whereas before this statement i wasnt convinced by the financial arguement because the figures involved weren't clear, therefore it was hard to weigh up.

All I'm objecting really to is that the GAA are being called greedy when the FAI are threatening to play abroad in the first place for the simple reason that they can get more people in the stadium then they would if they were to play in Dalymount. ie. get more money. Also their ticket prices are far and away more expensive then the GAA. If any association is charging too much and constantly going on about money it is the FAI. How is the GAA getting the bad press for this?

Waylander

Yeah, fair enough, obviously anyone would like to get €50m up front. As regards the bad press, I think the FAI gets its share of that, although you are right it is certainly well deserved. I am actually a GAA fan, I just have issues patting the beurocracy on the back, they just frustrate me too much with alot of bullsh*t.

DUB

What i find particularly annoying is people in the pub in their manchester united jersey saying the government should 'make them open it' :mad:

Blackjack

let's not forget that for all the crapola in the Press, the Man U fans in the Pubs saying the Govt should "Make them open it" etc, that neither the FAI nor the IRFU have had the balls to ask the GAA for the use of the stadium. The FAI even included Croker in their proposals for the Euro 08 bid - without even clearing this with the GAA.

DUB

Good point. I think Brian Kerr, a man i have an awful lot of time for, summed up the situation very well last week.


Kerr Article

Imposter

Another often forgotten part of this whole getting rid of Rule 42 thing is happens to large provincial stadiums and even club grounds? The argument for Croke Park might be swung by the financial incentives but should the provincial and club grounds be available for rent? If they are who should decide this? If the current proposals go through I think it'll be a high up commitee that decides. But surely each county board and club should have the say on what happens to their stadiums.

DUB

I think if you start draging other ground into this then it will never be passed. In my eyes this is a one off for Corke Park only during the development of Lansdowne Road.

Imposter

DUB wrote:

I think if you start draging other ground into this then it will never be passed. In my eyes this is a one off for Corke Park only during the development of Lansdowne Road.

I don't agree. Abolishing Rule 42 means that all it is abolished for all GAA grounds and facilities. I think Rule 42 should be abolished but it has to be done properly. The owners of whatever ground or facility need to be able to decide what's best for themselves. Having Central council or whichever top level commitee deciding what should be done with a club ground is wrong imo.

This needs to be discussed alongside the discussion to abolish the rule and not as an afterthought. Getting it wrong could severely harm the association.

DUB

I think that is a debate that should take place, but i dont think it would be passed, i think it would be too much in one go to be palatable for a lot of people.

Imposter

DUB wrote:

I think that is a debate that should take place, but i dont think it would be passed, i think it would be too much in one go to be palatable for a lot of people.

Do you not think that the GAA has to do what is right for them? If that means taking a bit longer to debate the issues and the fallout from such a change then so be it. Personally I'd prefer if they took this time rather than rush it through just so that they can make a lot of money from Croker. The GAA don't owe the IRFU or the FAI anything so making sure they've fully considered all possible side effects of their actions is far more important, imo.

Blackjack

well, if you add in the other grounds, 50 Million seems quite cheap to open up the other grounds for capacity.
Particularly when Lansdowne is getting 191 Million from the Government to rebuild.

DUB

Imposter wrote:

Do you not think that the GAA has to do what is right for them? If that means taking a bit longer to debate the issues and the fallout from such a change then so be it. Personally I'd prefer if they took this time rather than rush it through just so that they can make a lot of money from Croker. The GAA don't owe the IRFU or the FAI anything so making sure they've fully considered all possible side effects of their actions is far more important, imo.

The GAA should absolutly do what is best for them and them alone, but i am all for ideas being debated.

I would be in favour of opening Croke Park alone for the duration of the redevelopment of Lansdowne road for the right financial package only. I dont see the demand or need for other venues to be opened, I suppose you are thinking of the Gaelic grounds in Limerick for big Munster matches? I see no harm in them playing the odd game in lansdowne road. I dont see the advantage to opening up every club house and pitch to Soccer clubs.

If the government is willing to fork out 200 million on the horse racing industry then I see 50 million to open Croke Park as nothing, horse racing already gets 65 million every year, and certain people get very rich out of, yes it employs lots of people so would any industry with that much government subsiby!

DUB

Blackjack wrote:

well, if you add in the other grounds, 50 Million seems quite cheap to open up the other grounds for capacity.
Particularly when Lansdowne is getting 191 Million from the Government to rebuild.

I think Sean Kelly had Croke Park alone in mind when he mentioned that figure.

Imposter

DUB wrote:

I would be in favour of opening Croke Park alone for the duration of the redevelopment of Lansdowne road for the right financial package only. I dont see the demand or need for other venues to be opened, I suppose you are thinking of the Gaelic grounds in Limerick for big Munster matches? I see no harm in them playing the odd game in lansdowne road. I dont see the advantage to opening up every club house and pitch to Soccer clubs.

I would also be in favour of opening Croker during the redevelopement of Lansdowne provided it was financially benificial and didn't interfere with GAA activities but ditching Rule 42 means that other facilities are now in the same position as well.

Opening a ground in Munster for the rugby team (should they want it) would be one consideration, as would a lot of Eircom league teams that perhaps could make use of extra capacity should some sort of miracle happen and the league became popular with supporters. But more relevant imo is what happens with club grounds and allowing the local Sunday league soccer team to play there? Should the club who ownd the ground have the final say on this? Should the county board, the provincial council or central council have the final say? These side-effects need to be discussed and legislated for to be included in the vote on Rule 42 and not done as an afterthought. The entire association needs to be in agreement on this so that no negative fallout should or can occur because of this decision.