Mc Cartan to pay €10,000

Waylander

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1122/mccartanj.html

I do not know much about the background to this story but I think this fine is bordering on the ridiculous. I have seen Mc Cartan play plenty of times and never thought of him as a particularly dirty player. But that aside, a €10,000 to an amatuer sportsman is ridiculous. There are thugs in court every day for far worse then inflicting a broken jaw, that do not get this kind of punishment. This is why I think that discipline should be in house on these matters.

MicraBoy

It's not a fine he is buying his way out of a sentence. Somewhat more costly than a fine I should think.

Imposter

There was a thread on here about that story but it doesn't seem to be searchable (not to be confused with a silimar incident against a Westemath player by a Cavan player).

Why is it bordering on the ridiculous? He hit him. It's only a matter of time before this thuggery in the name of sport ended up in court.

The problem with in-house discipline as you call it is that the GAA are spineless when it comes to such things and the players that inflict such injuries are back playing in a short time (if they get a ban at all) while the injured player may never play again and may end up substantially out of pocket from hospital bills, current earning and/or future earnings.

Waylander

Imposter wrote:

There was a thread on here about that story but it doesn't seem to be searchable (not to be confused with a silimar incident against a Westemath player by a Cavan player).

Why is it bordering on the ridiculous? He hit him. It's only a matter of time before this thuggery in the name of sport ended up in court.

The problem with in-house discipline as you call it is that the GAA are spineless when it comes to such things and the players that inflict such injuries are back playing in a short time (if they get a ban at all) while the injured player may never play again and may end up substantially out of pocket from hospital bills, current earning and/or future earnings.

It is ridiculous because the judge is making an example of a sportsman here. People have got lighter treatment than that for Manslaughter FFS. In sport there are going to be confrontations and occassional fisticuffs. I think it is part of the attraction of sport, if I wanted to support a non contact game I would watch snooker or table tennis. Surely you cannot think the punishment fits the crime here? Also now there has been a precedent set, any player who gets hit by another at any level from club under age to Intercounty senior can push for the DPP to press charges and look for the aggressor to get €10,000 fine, while a thug on O Connell street, who is infortunate enough to get caught ( by this I mean most of them get away with it, not that he is unlucky ) will get a slap on the wrist and maybe costs. Surely you are not going to tell me you think this was a good ruling Imposter?

MicraBoy

It is not unusual for people like McCartan who have no previous convictions or any run in's with the law to be allowed to pay money to the "poor box" and have no conviction recorded against them. In that sense he is lucky and not being made an example of.

Remember he broke this guys jaw. The fella was wired up, and only able to consume liquids for some time as a result of one punch. Your right to say a precedent has been set. Maybe now when someones tugging on their shirt in a game, players won't think they have the right to throw a dig.

McCartan is unlucky in the sense that that most of this "fisticuffs" is actually handbags at ten paces. He did real damage.

Also the money is going to a club not the injured party, nor is he pursuing a civil action. Suprising enough in todays compo culture world.

Waylander

He is a player who has never received a red card in his career. I know where you are coming from, but I personally would rather spend a couple of days in the joy then pay a €10,000 fine in this particular circumstance. Also, while the result is unfortunate I do not htink it would have been Mc Cartans intention to have him eating through a straw, also in allot of these cases the guy who got hit had it coming to him for most of the game. This may not be the case here, tbh, I do not know as I have not seen the game or the incident. But like I say, when criminals are getting away with Manslaughter and GBH, I think it is daft to fine a player, or order a player to pay €10,000 for one punch, even though there were some serious results of that punch.

Imposter

Waylander wrote:

...Surely you are not going to tell me you think this was a good ruling Imposter?

I agree that the thug on the street does generally get off lightly but it is also possible that they would get a prison sentence. Now i'm not saying that McCartan should get a prison sentence but I am saying that any assault off the ball, in any sport, should be subject to the same rules as if it happened on the street. This happened completely off the ball. Contact sport or not that is not acceptable.

If it happened on the ball, in the heat of the action, then the laws of the game should be suffient to deal with it but off the ball it's just thuggery.

Waylander

I played both GAA Football and hurling for about 15 years from under 10 upwards. In that entire period I received less then five yellow cards and no red cards, I was clearly not a dirty player. Yet now I would be worried about taking the pitch, as I know I can be wound up, and I know I can lose my temper. Having to watch out for being sent off was one thing, and that was a risk most players are more then willing to accept, but risking a €10,000 penalty would definitely steer me away from playing the game. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one as I am not for turning, I think it is a very harsh penalty, that would not be dished out to a thug found guilty of the same crime on the street. If it was a premiership star fair enough, they are professional and earn enough money for €10,000 not to sting too much, but this is a fine imposed on a player who helped inspire a county to 2 All Ireland titles, and who did this because he liked the game. Well lucky we have people around to show this kind of gratitude. €10,000 is an awful lot of money to a Joe Soap, I have issues with the courts being involved in the first place, but the size of the fine\penalty is very extreme.

MicraBoy

I know where you are coming from, but I personally would rather spend a couple of days in the joy then pay a €10,000 fine in this particular circumstance

I think James McCartan disagrees with you on that point! He doesn't have to pay anything at all. He made an offer to pay so the judge would have an option not to send him to prison. It's his choice to make the offer, the judge did not impose a fine.

Having to watch out for being sent off was one thing, and that was a risk most players are more then willing to accept, but risking a €10,000 penalty would definitely steer me away from playing the game.

I would say you have less chance of ending up in court for assaulting someone on a GAA pitch than if you did it outside your local pub. Convictions like this are rare. In fact the judge praised Larkin for having the courage to bring it all the way. Why is that? Because assaults on the pitch (or in the car park after the game!) are dropped under pressure from all involved.

All you have to do is play within the rules and you'll be grand. In this case McCartan over stepped the rules of the game and of the land. Unlucky for him seeing as he had such a good record on the pitch.

Waylander

I do not think his offer was intended for that kind of sum, or did he state he would pay that amount?

Imposter

Waylander wrote:

In that entire period I received less then five yellow cards and no red cards, I was clearly not a dirty player.

Obviously i'm not getting at you or your record here but McCartan didn't get sent off for this 'incident'. He's admitted to doing it. Him having no sendings off or whatever in his career still stands but it hardly tells the full story!

MicraBoy

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/2004/11/22/story177088.html

I think this article sets out how the deal went down (last four paragraphs).

He was essentially told he had to offer something to be given the Probation Act (and hence no ciminal record). I guess the solicitors/barristers knew which direction to go in.

cournioni

I totally agree with that. There was a number of these incidents in my club match yesterday. One player in particular was involved in a number of off the ball incidents. He was eventually sent off.

These things happen in sport. This fine is a total joke for an amateur sportsman. Compensation to the victim should have been the penalty for what happened. Not time in jail or a fine, just compensation. No man with the the disciplinary record that McCartan has should be given that harsh punishment. As Waylander said, people are getting away with far worse on the streets scott free.

Waylander

From that article it looks like he selected the amount to be paid himself. Me personally I think he overshot the mark alot. €10,000 is big money, but obviously he can afford it. I would like to see that game now, just to see what kind of provocation Larkin used.

AthAnRi

I tend to agree with waylander. This sort of punishment should be left to the organisers of the sport. In this case the gaa. It is then the GAA's responsibiity to punish a player. The GAA need to set up stricter penalties and puninsh offenders with a lengthy ban( Games as apposed to time) and possibly a small fine. Fining an amature player 10,000 uro is crazy. That's a half a years wages for the average person.

If this trend continues then we will have nothing but court cases and GAA stars getting fined. If it does continue it could absolutely destroy the game

Imposter

AthAnRi wrote:

This sort of punishment should be left to the organisers of the sport.

But when they do nothing what happens?