Is the Irish Language going out of fashion? Please Vote!

Pinkchick03

I was training in my last job and this norweigen guy asked me did I know any Irish - the cheek! I try and speak a few words of Irish a day! One of my friends speaks Irish at home - I think every family should try to speak a little bit of Irish a day in their home. Even just saying Go raibh maith agat nó le do thoil would be nice! When my sister and I are talking and don't want my niece (her daughter) if you follow, to know what we are saying we speak Irish - very bad Irish - but we understand each other!! Slán go foill!

Fallen Angel

Check out this website / Féach ar seo

http://www.teanganua.pro.ie

This group wants to bring about radical changes in the teaching of grammar in schools and change some of the difficult Irish grammar.

The government says that 41% (1.5 million) Irish people have knowledge of Gaeilge but we all know that can differ immensely. About 200,000 people in Northern Ireland have some knowledge of Gaeilge too. A total population of 1.7 million people both North and South have some knowledge of Irish.


Two key areas:

1. The teaching of Gaeilge in primary and secondary schools has contributed directly to the decline in interest in speaking/ reading/ writing Irish.
The government must make radical changes to the way Irish is taught, concentrating more on reading and speaking Irish, less emphasis on grammar. Maybe even having conversation classes in Primary and secondary school where the students talk in Irish instead of always listening to the teacher speak "as Gaeilge".

2. Irish people need to get rid of their hangups about speaking Irish, even if they can hardly string a sentence together. If someone speaks to you in Irish, don't look at them sideways as if they're speaking Swahili. People should use a couple of words here and there when they are speaking English.
Mix English and Irish words together. You know words like; "Conas atá tú ?" - "Táim go maith", "Slán tamaill", "Slán abhaile", "Fan go bhfeicfimid", "Slán go fóill" etc...


Labhair Gaeilge linn !
Speak Irish with us, not to us !

captainplanet

i heart irish. heart it very much

evad_lhorg

ok i started irish in first class and did it all the way up to leaving cert. I started spanish in first year and studied it for five years up to the leaving cert. in second year of secondary school i was better at spanish than irish. that's appauling!

edit: on the irish teaching. i was lucky enough to get a good teacher from first to third year and he taught us the verbs and proper endings and i can still whack out the 11 irregular verbs in less than 4 seconds. if not for him i would have done foundation irish cause there is no way in hell id be able to write a story without the proper verb endings and have it make any sense.

Jujenjitsu

Its a part of our heritage, but stuffing it down the publics throat is beginning to become a piss-off. Its as useful as a bucket of nut sacks.

Slutmonkey57b

Fallen Angel wrote:

Check out this website / Féach ar seo

No. See above.

The government says that 41% (1.5 million) Irish people have knowledge of Gaeilge but we all know that can differ immensely. About 200,000 people in Northern Ireland have some knowledge of Gaeilge too. A total population of 1.7 million people both North and South have some knowledge of Irish.

Since we are forced to learn Irish, shouldn't 100% of the population know Irish? But they don't. I wonder why?

Mix English and Irish words together. You know words like; "Conas atá tú ?" - "Táim go maith", "Slán tamaill", "Slán abhaile", "Fan go bhfeicfimid", "Slán go fóill" etc...

Labhair Gaeilge linn !
Speak Irish with us, not to us !

Why on earth would you mix English and Irish? And changing the way Irish is taught is not going to solve the problem - as already advised, English, the language that the population chooses to use, is taught apallingly, if at all, in this country. Yet still people choose to use it. Why won't the Irish lobby admit that we know our own minds and know what language is actually the "first" language of the country?

Speak Irish to each other, and leave me the Fck alone thank you very much.

trotter_inc

Used to hate doing Irish in secondary school - didnt see the point really, doing it in primary school is fine. I think it should be an optional subject in secondary school.

Blub2k4

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Magpie is absolutely correct. What you know today is not "Irish" at all, it is a political construct. It is not "Gaelic", the original language of the native speakers. No modern European language is the same as it was 500 years ago, but the difference is that other languages have evolved through natural use, whereas Irish has been invented along the way. My favourite example of this is that when I was sitting in Irish class ignoring the teacher, the "correct" word for car was - "carr". Wow. Then they realised it was a joke and turned it into "glustean" (no I can't spell it and even if I could I wouldn't on general principle so don't bother) - meaning, literally, "go - thing".

The language is permanantly stuck at the equivalent of a 6-year old child's level of English vocabulary. Even assuming you wanted to hold a conversation in the language, you couldn't hold an eloquant one because the words and flexibility simply don't exist. Total waste of time, and like others here, I refuse to have anything to do with the language because the filthy powers that be force it down our throats from birth as "part of your heritage". It's not part of my heritage, background, or everyday life, and it never will be.

Also note that English is no longer taught "as a language" in primary school - primary school children do not learn grammar anymore. This has not stopped English being the most widely spoken langaueg in the country.
People do not speak Irish because there is no reason for them to do so, and many of them activly do not want to. Stop pretending otherwise. It has not been "beaten down by the man" - it has been forced down our throats, and it still fails.

Phew you have a chip on your shoulder about Irish.
As a point of interest do you speak any other languages apart from English?
I've spent a lot of my life in other countries and speak English, Irish, German and a bit of French, I have quite an aptitude for languages and I put it down to being brought up bilingual from an early age.
In my experience abroad the Irish are very good ( when compared to the British or the French for example ) at learning foreign languages, again I put this down to our early exposure to a second language.

As regards your construct theory as opposed to evolution of a language, well you are talking rubbish, that is evolution.
Take car as your example, the Irish word gluastain meaning thing that moves, the English "automobile" is merely a construct meaning thing that moves itself, being a very similar "construct" as you call it, think about it and dont let your hate get in the way of fact.

Gothic Warrior

passive wrote:

yes...but NOT learning it can't do any harm either...

people are constantly saying, and it's been repeated here, "it's important for our heritage" or "our language is our culture" and other such statements like that. someone please explain this for me? one of the "gaeilge=great!" crowd... what exactly is that supposed to mean? when people say things like "it's important because it's our history" do they actually have any intelligent thoughts behind it or is it just a sentence.

it's not necessary and it should not be compulsary. it's completely unfair on leaving cert students, especially because of the nature of the course <tangent> as has been stated repeatedly... it's not about learning and understanding the language, it's about learning off meaningless words about certain plays poems and stories, the vast majority of which have very poor plots and little substance, particularly when compared to the standard of literature on the english course. they seem to pretend the irish is a first language course and the students already know the language and are just required to give their opinions on the greatest of irish political works or spout some inane (but grammatically correct) views about drugs & alcohol, the problems of racism, the celtic tiger etc.

the reality is that students on average (well..in my school anyway, maybe we're the worst in the country or something) have very poor grasp of the language...most of the books are entirely in irish and huge amounts of time are wasted in Irish class translating each line of the poems & stories so we have a vague idea whats going on. we have extra classes after school for grammar... if not for them i'd be even more lost in class, but we don't have time to cover actually knowing the language in class because of the course work :mad: </tangent>

all that said: i kinda like it. I accept that if it was taught differently i probably wouldn't have all this pent up hatred. I do think it's "nice" that people still speak it as a first language in (a handful of) places. I randomly use irish words in conversation, enjoy speaking it in the oral (ahem) &, for no reason i can think of other than a random realisation that i preferred it, i've replaced "between" with "idir" in writing texts and emails and stuff... it's a novelty for me. It isn't a necessary novelty though...or a novelty on a par with Maths & English in terms of their educational merit.

umm... slán...

Nicely put. Couldn't agree more.

Slutmonkey57b

I don't hate the language.

I do hate the bullsh!t, lies and hypocricy that follows from it and that gets people to shove it down our throats whether we want it or not. People are forced to learn the language, but still choose not to use it. Why won't the Irish fanatacists admit that there is a reason for this? Why won't they admit that the language is a political tool and not a living language at all?

Being brought up bilingual will indeed increase your language skills - but again, this is not due to the use of Irish itself. If you're going to teach a dead language, why not teach Latin, and show people how most european languages have evolved? Better yet, why not teach a modern LIVING European language instead? Why not make Irish optional from the start of secondary school?

Not for any other reason than that the Irish lobbyists won't admit the truth, that's all.

Blub2k4

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

I don't hate the language.

I do hate the bullsh!t, lies and hypocricy that follows from it and that gets people to shove it down our throats whether we want it or not. People are forced to learn the language, but still choose not to use it. Why won't the Irish fanatacists admit that there is a reason for this? Why won't they admit that the language is a political tool and not a living language at all?

Being brought up bilingual will indeed increase your language skills - but again, this is not due to the use of Irish itself. If you're going to teach a dead language, why not teach Latin, and show people how most european languages have evolved? Better yet, why not teach a modern LIVING European language instead? Why not make Irish optional from the start of secondary school?

Not for any other reason than that the Irish lobbyists won't admit the truth, that's all.

How is Irish supposed to be a living language if it were abandoned in Schools? That really would consign it to the dustbin of history. I understand that the method of teaching it normally leads to a lack of interest, but I also remember when I was in school in the 80's that it was "trendy" not to do well in Irish, people used to boast about how badly they had done in their Inter results as if it was a badge of honour, I'm sure some of them feel stupid about that now.
As you say it has as much relevance as maths or history. Modern languages are taught already.
Do you really also not understand the importance of culture? Are young peoples lives so shallow these days that it means nothing?

Slutmonkey57b

I say quite the opposite actually - it has no relevance at all. Maths and history have some application in the real world, and are useful things to be taught. Irish is anything but.

Again, and i'm getting tired saying it, the method of teaching is not to blame. You could get the best teachers in the world to teach Irish and it would have no effect, because the end product of all that learning is not worth it to a lot of people. The method of teaching english in schools is, if anything, worse than the method of teaching Irish, but still people choose to use it.

Suggesting that the "holy trinity" of Irish, Trad, and the GAA is all that there is to irish culture these days is equally shallow in my mind. And why should "young people" be the bogymen? I know just as many middle-aged disparagers of the language as I do youngsters.

elivsvonchiaing

I reckon it was the department of education that ruined Irish for me. Before I was born they amalgamated "Irish" into one language where there were at least 4 distinct dialects. They eliminated the character set. Needless to say this was during Mao Zhedong's reign! :eek: If at the age of say 9 I was introduced to language. With character set - regional dialects only hinted at. At 12 - choice - do I take it on or not? Think I would have tbh!

Instead I got it shoved down my throat since kindergarden - hated it since 6 y/o. DOE to blame imho.

Status of "Gaeilge"? It makes as much sense as the Israeli government re-issuing state forms in two forms of Yiddish and Ladhinho!

Gaelic (Irish) & (Scottish) is dead - 'coz both are ghosts of their original resurrected by people who simply could not see the future imho!

seanybiker

sadly it is going out of fashion. next month i think its getting dropped from the list of things you need to join the guards which is sad but in my case its ok cos i never got my irish leaing

Breezer

As of today, Irish has been designated an official working language of the EU.

Just thought I'd mention that to start the debate again.

Humpty D

It was never cool. Only squares speak fluent Irish to each other.

prospect

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil gluaiseacht na Gaeilge ag dul ar aghaidh níos tapúla i láthair na huaire. Tá níos mó daoine fásta ag foghlaim í nó ag áth fhoghlaim an méid a bhí acu roimhe. Freisin, de réir dealraimh tá níos mó daltaí scoile ag freastal ar scoileanna in a bhfuil gach ábhair á mhúineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge (i.e. Gaelscoileanna). B’fhéidir go bhfuil muid ag déanamh ráiteas faoin ár gcultúr agus neamhspleáchas mar náisiún taobh istigh den Aontas Eorpach.

Humpty D

prospect wrote:

Is dóigh liom go bhfuil gluaiseacht na Gaeilge ag dul ar aghaidh níos tapúla i láthair na huaire. Tá níos mó daoine fásta ag foghlaim í nó ag áth fhoghlaim an méid a bhí acu roimhe. Freisin, de réir dealraimh tá níos mó daltaí scoile ag freastal ar scoileanna in a bhfuil gach ábhair á mhúineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge (i.e. Gaelscoileanna). B’fhéidir go bhfuil muid ag déanamh ráiteas faoin ár gcultúr agus neamhspleáchas mar náisiún taobh istigh den Aontas Eorpach.

Square.

prospect

Humpty D wrote:

Square.

Thanks

scuba steve

Don't learn the subject well but that hector is great

is_that_so

Leis na "cupla focal" ata fagtha agam taim buartha gur teanga oifigiul an Ghaeilge san Eoraip. Mar ata leirithe anseo is beag suim ata ag Eireannaigh i a labhairt. Ta se scannalach go bhfuil costas €3 milliun in aghaidh na bliana toisc gur mhian le mionlach na tire leiriu go bhfuil gra na teanga fos acu.

Quite simply, hypocritical. Sad to say, another waste of money perpetrating illusions. TG4 and R na G are not examples of a living language.

maeve49

I think that the Irish Language is pretty popular. Hector from TG4 has defiantely given it an element of cool! I for one am really glad to have the language, when you are abroad, you really see the importance of having your own language, its part of my identity and a great way of gossiping without getting caught!

I think also that most people who went to the gaeltachts as teenagers had great memories from that - first girl/boy friend, first kiss - part of the growing up process and I think that its something that we should pass on. As Ireland is becoming increasingly multicultural I think that it is important to retain our identity throught the language also.

I do agree that the emphasis is all wrong in the way its taught, but I am sure everyone who went to school here still has cupla focail and should try and use it when they can!

Wibbs

For me anyone who claims to hate the language is a bit of a fool, but as a living language irish does seem to be struggling, despite sucessive governments expensive attempts to prop it up.

If it is such a part of our "culture" why does it need such support? Many minority languages around the world survive and thrive under much more frugal circumstances. Certainly the way it's taught has a lot to do with it's lack of use, but that can't be all of the problem.

The militant gaelgoirs(sp) are a much of the problem. Their constant whining about funding and culture really starts to wear after a while and can only weaken their cause in eyes of many. It can reach ridiculous proportions in the hands of someone like that liver lipped amadan o'cuiv. His insistance that placenames in the gaelthacht can only be in irish is to my mind madness and only causes confusion to the Irish and tourists alike. Yea right. It's almost laughable. Not so funny when one considers the money it takes to make such changes. How many hospital beds did that cost?

Now that Irish is an official language of the EU, thes costs are set to rise further. All this for a language that precious few use at all and even fewer speak with any skill. Let's go back to year zero and stand bare titted at the crossroads cursing perfidious Albion for destroying our culture.

As for Hector et al on TG4, fine, but how many would tune in if the subtitle machine broke down?(In fairness the TG4 weather girls may make me hesitate for longer on the remote button than is seemly even without subtitles)

Cool_CM

Two words- PAISEAN FAISEAN!
What a show!