Did something dumb/I should be dead

JohnBoy

Cleaning up a shed on a freinds farm yesterday and there was a socket mounted outside, but not an outside socket, just a plain steel workshop type socket.

anyway plugged a grinder into it to do a small job first and there was no joy.

no lights working in the shed either so I figured a blown/disconnected fuse


cut the socket off the wire and pulled the wire back inside where the socket could be mounted in the dry.

dismantled the socket and removed the old wires, looked very clean inside, it was well sheltered outside i guess.

so I figured step one would be to put the socket back onto the wire, strip and reattach fine.

then I went looking for fuses.

went to the other shed with the main fusebox in it (this is a farm, multiple sheds) and could see no blown or pulled fuses.

back to the other shed and eventually climbed up to the fusebox.

both fuses looked ok, strange, but sometimes the caps don't fully fall out, so I removed em both but the caps seemed well attached so I went off to get the multimeter.

tested both fuses ok.

so I stuck in a phase tester to see what the story was and the little bulb glowed, very odd.

put me fuses back in and went down to the socket and pulled it apart again.

OMG phase tester lit up.

how did i not blow the fuse when i cut the wire i wondered.......


used an insulated pliers at all times and an insulated screwrdiver and i try and avoid touching the conductors in installed wiring anyway, but this was a shock to me (pardon the pun)

got the multimeter and it showed 25 to 35 mV (yes, millivolts) on the circuit.

firstly, how is that enough to make the phase tester glow, and secondly how could I have that kind of a voltage drop (maybe 20m of solid core wire)

please note I started this job in daylight and the phase tester glow was only visible in the dark , and even then only just with the flashlight on, it was verrry faint.

so, feel free to call me an idiot for not properly verifying the circuit was dead, but also please give me your thoughts on the problem.

didn't check voltage at the fusebox cos I was so surprised I decided to wait for another day to go rooting in the fusebox

netwhizkid

Ehh Electric shock are shocking!! :eek: I got an electrical shock recently while drying wet paper that was important with a hairdryer and the hair dryer wouldn't reach the table so i plugged into a ramshakle extension lead and i got a fair old wallop of it, Similar to the time i caught a Cattle Electric Fence, uuuweeee, that was a sparky experience.

Moral, Be more careful next time and always turn off the power at the main box and then remove the main fuse and corresponding secondary fuse, also trip the trip switch for said area. A trip switch is also called a circuit breaker.

mikewest

Where I work you would be hung, drawn and quartered and then sent on safety training again if anyone found out you did something like that. Seeing someone getting fried isn't pleasant although its probably less pleasant if its yourself getting fried.

You were lucky !

shabbyroad

WOW ! :eek:

it was nearly "night-night john boy"



..... I'll get me coat............

JohnBoy

yeah mike I'd imagine one would get a fair doing over it, only thing I will say in my defence, and it's not much, is that the line would have not illuminated the phase tester enough for me to see it in daylight had i checked it, but yeah, I should've flicked off the mains.

so now that everyone agrees i'm an idiot, any thoughts as to how I'm getting such a major voltage drop?

Stoner

May have been a loose fuse , when you replaced it you made the connection again,

backfeeds on neutrals can light a phase tester. If you used a proper insulated cutters and you snipped both phase and neutral at the same time , you would have most likely heard a bang and your snips would have a nice hole in it but you would have been fine, unless you were wet and so was the ground

JohnBoy

yeah, I have vde pliers and screwdrivers so I was safe in that regard.

doubt it would have blown a hole in the pliers (i've often cut live wires, ever use an electric hedge clippers, goes with the territory, tiny crack before the motor cuts out, never a big bang

but even after replacing the fuse it's only reading millivolts.......

hmmmm

Victor

JohnBoy wrote:

but even after replacing the fuse it's only reading millivolts.......

I suspect the cable has been pinched, over-stretched or somesuch that the cable is now acting as a big insulator. I suggest you replace the whole cable back to the board and / or have an electrician look at it.

"Go to Electrician"

Keeks

I'd have to say it is something wrong with the cable as well. probably coroded somewhere. Also check the fuses once more, they may have rust spots on them preventing good solid connection. Use a bit of sandpaper to clean the rust off

Also, as a saftey issue, you should NEVER check absence of voltage with a phase tester (screwdriver type). It is the height of danger and wholly unreliable. Always use a multimeter.

JohnBoy

Yeah, I guess it's crushed or summat, I just found it odd that I'd get the few millivolts through it still.

electrician, pfft, its a farm shed

(please note I will be more careful in future

squire1

I suspect John Boy is not long for this world......

"electrician, pfft, its a farm shed".

Famous last words?

mikewest

If its a shed then would it be safe to assume corrosion at the terminals or does that only happen in sheds I go near? are you absolutely sure that this is the right fuse and that its not on some "temporary" supply(course this sort of thing doesn't happen on farms)? have you checked the cable for continuity? etc. etc.

p.s. got a megger or can you borrow one?

eddiej

John Boy you are a gob****e more people killed in agriculture every year than any other industry because said gob****es like you try stuff you re very clearly not skilled or capable of doing. Tell ye whta ill get you re incarnated and you can come back and see those left behind after your dead get an electrician to do electrice and dont be another part of agricultures worst statistic you prat

rooferPete

Hi JohnBoy,

I have no objection to anyone doing a bit of DIY even as much as building a house and yes fitting their own roof, but as Eddie pointed out there are some areas where a little knowledge is not just dangerous, it's deadly.

My youngest Son is an apprentice sparks with a big company, the senior tradesmen some as old as 25 have made it clear to him he will not be ready to start using the mulitimeter whatsit gizmo until he is in his second year.

He must get the theory in the safe environment of the Fas training course part of first year, until then he learns from watching the skilled tradesmen use the equipment.

I have a couple of theories from my very limited of electrical work and the components used but there are some things I will not post, not because I'm mean but because I would really hate to get a call from your parents saying my post is why they buried you.

Just my opinion but some lines should never be crossed (no pun intended).

.

tapest

rooferPete wrote:

I have a couple of theories from my very limited of electrical work and the components used but there are some things I will not post, not because I'm mean but because I would really hate to get a call from your parents saying my post is why they buried you.

.

Good answer

My youngest Son is an apprentice sparks
.

Jaysus.....another generation of ye....Will we see posts from "SparkiePete" in the future lol

I assume congrats. are in order. So now is it RooferPete, sir ...or Sir RooferPete

t

JohnBoy

OhhhhhhKayyyyyyyy

calm down people.


Firstly: "electrician, pfft, its a farm shed" was meant in jest.....

Secondly:

"John Boy you are a gob****e more people killed in agriculture every year than any other industry because said gob****es like you try stuff you re very clearly not skilled or capable of doing. Tell ye whta ill get you re incarnated and you can come back and see those left behind after your dead get an electrician to do electrice and dont be another part of agricultures worst statistic you prat"

No, their not, since 2000 more people have been killed in construction than agriculture, every year except 2003. don't rant quoting statistics that are wrong.

I made a mistake, I owned up to it, and I asked a question.

some people reassured me that I did something dumb, and then offered advice, you though had to have a jolly good rant, which is your right


I don't normally work on live circuits, it's a rule I have funnily enough, however, this time, once, I didn't do all the checks to ensure it was dead, however, I still treated it as if it was live. I MADE A MISTAKE, yes one that could have been fatal, and I scared the living **** out of myself.

does that mean i'm going to call in an electrician to finish the job, no, it means I'm going to be more careful next time.

rooferPete

Hi John Boy,

I can assure you I meant no disrespect, in fact I think this thread should go into a "Sticky" headed Safety.

I believe it takes a big man to admit to his mistake, maybe your thead could help save a life.

Take care

eddiej

John Boy

You can split hairs on the stats (which you are right about ag is second well now aren't we farmers doing well) when you are pushinig up the daisies.

I aint goin to back down its your attitude that ah sure its alright I got away with it this time ill be more careful in future it is your lack of skill in this area that leads you to takin unknown risks that will probably end up in tradgedy some day. Also if you look at the HSA website you will see that Many electrical issues is one of the areas of concern in the HSA inspections of farms. Its generally the attitude to safety that kills you know ah sure I'll give it a bash. Call me a ranter all you like but the next time and it sounds like you will have a few take a look at those you love before you do something stupid that is the reality my friend

JohnBoy

I went back at the job on saturday, and out of curiousity/before pulling the line out completely I cut it half ways down and measured again.

224 V at the fuse box
140 V at half way
35 mV at the end

replaced the wire, installed a new socket, all is well in the world again.

Then proceeded to make use of my new found socket to use a 9 inch grinder for most of the day yesterday, but I should probably have left the use of that to the professionals too cos i was still on a farm, and obviously the grinder would be way more dangerous there than at home in my garage.