Debate on Islamic Fundamentalism in Trinity College

Qadri

Islamic Fundamentalism

Thursday, 10 November 2005 at 7:30pm in the GMB

"This house believes that 9/11 was a legitimate form of resistance of American pressure to the Islamic world."

The Phil's Annual Islamic Debate, which in past years has highly controversial/interesting.

Speakers:

Musleh Faradhi:President of the Islamic Forum
Mohamed Ali:Chief Executive of Islamic Channel.
Yvonne Ridley:Political Editor of Islamic Channel.
Sheikh Zille Umar Qadri: Director Minhaj-ul-Quran North Dublin Islamic Centre.
Ian O’Doherty:Columnist with Irish Independent.
Anjem Choudary: The leader of Al Muhajiroun in the UK.

Hobbes

I'd like a breakdown of this debate after it happened here if that is possible.

Please note that anything posted in this forum that condones terrorism will lead in a ban and the thread nuked. Which is why I am looking for more details as the quote is somewhat questionable.

Frank Grimes

Where exactly is it in the college? Keep in mind that I don't know my way around Trinity at all

Hobbes

Frank Grimes wrote:

Where exactly is it in the college? Keep in mind that I don't know my way around Trinity at all

http://www.tcdphil.com/news.php

Frank Grimes

Thanks Hobbes, is that the Graduates Memorial Building they're referring to?

Frank Grimes

I've found a map. Could be an interesting debate, I might go along.

hawkmoon269

The debate title is nothing short of a disgrace and Trinity should be ashamed.
Islamic fundamentalists are killing people around the world but in some peoples' eyes apparently it's all the fault of America. Excuse me but what about the US intervention to protect Bosnian Muslims in the 1990's? What was anti-Islam about that?


Thoroughly revolting.

hawkmoon269

Hobbes wrote:

I'd like a breakdown of this debate after it happened here if that is possible.

Please note that anything posted in this forum that condones terrorism will lead in a ban and the thread nuked. Which is why I am looking for more details as the quote is somewhat questionable.

I agree with you and if some speakers are arguing in favour then they should be expelled from Ireland.

HelterSkelter

hawkmoon269 wrote:

I agree with you and if some speakers are arguing in favour then they should be expelled from Ireland.

Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Go live in the US if you agree with that kind of crap.

Hobbes

Its being discussed on Mod forum. A mention is that the questionable title is to get more people to come to it.

bonkey

HelterSkelter wrote:

Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Go live in the US if you agree with that kind of crap.

The irony.....

HelterSkelter

bonkey wrote:

The irony.....

;-)

OfflerCrocGod

HelterSkelter wrote:

;-)

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


That's American by the way, not Irish. I wish such a strong protection were afforded to us.

HelterSkelter

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


That's American by the way, not Irish. I wish such a strong protection were afforded to us.

"Freedom of speech, or of the press" - my arse. Is that why the US Government put so much pressure on Disney that they wouldn't distribute Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11???

Hobbes

Its getting off topic. Kindly take that discussion to Politics. Thanks.

Qadri

I as kow one thing and that is the person who is an enemy of a human is a terrorist. Wether it is a Christian, Muslim or an Atheist. Those who believe that killing innocent people is justified have nothing to do with Islam and Humanity at all!

I will be speaking also against it ofcourse. And I was also suprised why they allowed such a debate in Trinity...
Was told that it was for the sake of freedom...

hawkmoon269

Qadri wrote:

I as kow one thing and that is the person who is an enemy of a human is a terrorist. Wether it is a Christian, Muslim or an Atheist. Those who believe that killing innocent people is justified have nothing to do with Islam and Humanity at all!

I will be speaking also against it ofcourse. And I was also suprised why they allowed such a debate in Trinity...
Was told that it was for the sake of freedom...

I am glad to hear it.

Wibbs

It would also depend on what some would regard as "innocent". That's part of the problem. Many in the world would regard an American(as an example) as part of the problem of the country that they represent, so their innocence mightn't be considered as clearcut. Osama Bin Laden seems to take that point of view from what I've read of his statements. As Hobbes points out though, that's a point maybe better raised in the politics forum as much as here.

Suff

I don't really think that its a religion thing, I came to think that 9/11 was planned with the help of the US goverment. in a way to give them the freedom to attack other nations (Iraq, Afghanstan)
remember thet Osam Ben Laden was working with the US all along and was in contct with the CIA in the UAE few months before 9/11.

source:
* 9/11: The Big Lie by Thierry Meyssan. URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592090265/103-2141431-3103851?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance"]Link[/URL
*Dude, Where's My Country? by Michael Moore. URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446693790/103-2141431-3103851?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance"]Link[/URL

Qadri

I don't really think that its a religion thing, I came to think that 9/11 was planned with the help of the US goverment. in a way to give them the freedom to attack other nations (Iraq, Afghanstan)
remember thet Osam Ben Laden was working with the US all along and was in contct with the CIA in the UAE few months before 9/11.

source:
* 9/11: The Big Lie by Thierry Meyssan. [Link]
*Dude, Where's My Country? by Michael Moore. [Link]

I agree with you Suff, but the problem is these fanatic Muhajiroun leader will come and the media will asume he is a mainstream Muslim. He will try to justify the attacks. This is why I ask all of you and specially Muslims to be there. Because than we can tell that he is not representing the Islam taught and practiced by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)!

Frank Grimes

Qadri wrote:

I agree with you Suff, but the problem is these fanatic Muhajiroun leader will come and the media will asume he is a mainstream Muslim.

I thought that Al Mujaharoun broke up recently because the British government planning to ban them.

Qadri

Al Muhajirouns leader is coming Please read the first message of this thread.
Anjum Chaudhary is leader od Al Muhajiroun after the fanatic Omar Bakri

Frank Grimes

Qadri wrote:

Al Muhajirouns leader is coming Please read the first message of this thread.
Anjum Chaudhary is leader od Al Muhajiroun after the fanatic Omar Bakri

I did read it. I just thought they'd broken up/disbanded, that's all!

lostexpectation

is one more concerned about the propostion given or the Anjum Chaudhary and what he advocates.


i *think* im the latter

Qadri

I am concerned that the Media will highlight:

"Muslim Extremist in Dublin justifies 9/11 attacks!"

While it will be only one person out of the 5 speakers who will be in favour of it...

Hobbes

Qadri wrote:

I am concerned that the Media will highlight:

"Muslim Extremist in Dublin justifies 9/11 attacks!"

While it will be only one person out of the 5 speakers who will be in favour of it...

I would put the blame on this due to the name of the debate rather then the 1 debater. Just reading the title seems to imply that a number of people are claiming it was justified.

Frank Grimes

Qadri wrote:

I am concerned that the Media will highlight:

"Muslim Extremist in Dublin justifies 9/11 attacks!"

While it will be only one person out of the 5 speakers who will be in favour of it...

They already have, in the Independent anyway.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1502592&issue_id=13240

Pro-violence scholar to speak


AN ISLAMIC scholar will speak in support of violence against the West at Trinity College's Philosophical Society tonight.

Umran Javed Choudary, believes "the Koran justifies the kidnapping and killing of Westerners in occupied Muslim lands".

Opposing Choudary's fundamentalist views will be Muhammad Ali of the Islam Channel and Yvonne Ridley, who was kidnapped while working as a journalist in Afghanistan.

Suff

I would condem the killing of any innocent person whatever they be, man, woman or a child.
I'm sure no one will justify the attackes no matter whatever the case of them. however I am SO SICK of the media and the USA on how they over used the tragedy and enlarge it to be the biggest tradegy in the world where it's not!

Does anybody remember's the ....

8,000 civilians killed by the US booming of Lebanon in the 80's?
Sabra and Shatila massacres?
Million + killed by the US in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945?
100,000 killed in Iraq in the last 2 years alone?
the messcare in Fallujah?
The Jenin massacre ?
800+ women& children taking shelter in a UN building from the Isreali's Guns - Qana massacre??
and the list goes on and on.....

we ment to remember 9/11 as the greatest horror done to humanity!?
that's Bull**** !

Are they trying to say that the American/westren life is worth more???

Wibbs

Suff wrote:

Are they trying to say that the American/westren life is worth more???

Sadly that's often the case. Human nature it seems only gets affected when it's spectacular and it happens to ones own. Millions are starving around the world or needlessly dying of curable disease, yet a single TV friendly disaster usually holds the attention more.

I would agree with most of your examples too(would argue over the atomic/japanese thing a little).

Hobbes

I will say this one more time. If you want to continue on this line of discussion take it to politics. Unless its information regarding the debate anyone posting after this post is risking a temp ban.

marco murphy

Yvonne Ridley:Political Editor of Islamic Channel.







I will attend this and cant wait to see her.