university of manchester app. form is it racist

thegent

My friend was thinking of applying to a UK colege, this is part of the Uni. of Manchesters application form:

'Ethnic Origin - please enter the code from the list below which best describes
your ethnic origin. The University has a statutory obligation to collect this
information. This information will not have any influence on the outcome of your application.

White - British 11
White - Irish 12
Other White background 19
Black or Black British - Caribbean 21
Black or Black British - African 22
Other Black background 29
Asian or Asian British - Indian 31
Asian or Asian British - Pakistani 32
Asian or Asian British - Bangladeshi 33
Chinese 34
Other Asian background 39
Mixed - White and Black Caribbean 41
Mixed - White and Black African 42
Mixed - White and Asian 43
Other Mixed background 49
Other Ethnic background 80
Information Refused 98'


I thought it was a very very bad thing to have on an app. form, is it legal?
I like the bit where they say it doesn't have any influence on the outcome-why ask then? oh! because of a statutory obligation.
Can anyone shed light on the legality of this?

whiskeyman

application form wrote:

"The University has a statutory obligation to collect this
information, which is required for statistical purposes only"

thegent wrote:

like the bit where they say it doesn't have any influence on the outcome-why ask then? oh! because of a statutory obligation.

You've answered your own question...

cruiserweight

There was a thread an a similiar issue not to long ago, except it was about religion!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318301

mike65

Standard practice thanks to PC ideology

Mike.

thegent

whiskeyman wrote:

You've answered your own question...

not exactly whiskeyman the question is what statutary obligation? i thought it wasn't supposed to matter if you were black pink or purple. looks to me like theres a university in northern england that doesn't like black cushions on a white couch.

cruiserweight

thegent wrote:

not exactly whiskeyman the question is what statutary obligation? i thought it wasn't supposed to matter if you were black pink or purple. looks to me like theres a university in northern england that doesn't like black cushions on a white couch.

Just re-read the bit

This information will not have any influence on the outcome of your application.

It would be illegal to discriminate against a person on the grounds of their ethnic background but not illegal to ask them! They are probably for governemnt stats, so they can see if there is a problem like "we don't have any Mixed - White and Black Caribbean 41 here, we need more 41"! Also your friend can refuse to give the information, that option is there!

When I was an undergraduate in UCD I filled out survey forms from the college and there were definitely questions about my parents background and income etc. and I am guessing abuot my ethnic background! The University doesn't need these for any other reason besides stats!

ratboy

it's probably just for stats about all the different racial minorities they have in the university, i wouldn't see it as racist.

whiskeyman

thegent wrote:

not exactly whiskeyman the question is what statutary obligation? i thought it wasn't supposed to matter if you were black pink or purple. looks to me like theres a university in northern england that doesn't like black cushions on a white couch.

actually, it's there to revert such a scenerio.

Details of candidates and of selection decisions (including the rationale for selection or rejection) will be kept for at least six months after an appointment has been made, in case they are required as evidence by an employment tribunal or for other proceedings. The University will keep records of the sex, ethnicity, and any disability of its staff and of all candidates and of those shortlisted and appointed. The gender composition of selection panels will also be monitored. Records may be used to determine whether members of one sex or persons of a certain racial group or those with a disability do not apply for employment, or apply in smaller numbers than might be expected, or are shortlisted or appointed in a lower proportion than their application rate, or are concentrated in certain jobs, faculties, or sub-faculties. Where such under-representation is identified, positive action initiatives will be developed in accordance with the provisions of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, the Race Relations Act 1976, and any other relevant national legislation. The University will investigate the practicalities of monitoring progression within employment, including access to training and development, promotion and grading.

2000th post... whoa.

BuffyBot

AFAIK it's merely a statistical thing.

http://www.hesa.ac.uk/

If they weren't letting people in based on their answer that'd be racist.......

28064212

thegent wrote:

White - British 11
White - Irish 12
Other White background 19
Black or Black British - Caribbean 21
Black or Black British - African 22
Other Black background 29
Asian or Asian British - Indian 31
Asian or Asian British - Pakistani 32
Asian or Asian British - Bangladeshi 33
Chinese 34
Other Asian background 39
Mixed - White and Black Caribbean 41
Mixed - White and Black African 42
Mixed - White and Asian 43
Other Mixed background 49
Other Ethnic background 80
Information Refused 98

Surely Number 98 is the most important option? It's clearly up to you whether you tell them or not. Statistical analysis seems the most likely reason

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

arbeitsscheuer

When BBC were advertising for new writers, myself and a mate of mine sent in one of our scripts, along with the application form we'd requested.
The form said pretty much exactly the same as the University of Manchester one, and we didn't give it a second thought.

The important thing is this:

Deleted User wrote:

If they weren't letting people in based on their answer that'd be racist.......

biko

Some years back it would have read:
Irish, Black or Dog 33 :mad:
http://www.lordtaylor.org/cdrom.html

mountainyman

Why would a university lie about this? They aren't hotbeds of racism.

The relevant legislation is the UK Race Relations Amendment Act, 2001, this creates new duties for universities and lots of other types of organisations in the UK to seek to prevent discrimination and promote good interracial relations.

This is the statutory obligation for UK Universities. They have to have a policy explicitly promoting racial equality, this must include metrics and KPIs so that the success of the policy can be assessed. They can't assess the policy without information.


GODDAMN RACIAL EQUALITY

BlitzKrieg

i remember bringing something up about this way back when i was looking for work in the UK, i emailed the British govt about it and this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madame,

Thank you for your recent e - mail.

The principle objective of an ethnic monitoring system is to find out
if any discrimination is taking place on the grounds of race, colour,
nationality, ethnic or national origins. The ethnic categories used
should therefore be related to this objective. It is important to
identify individually all the groups likely to be discriminated against
and to band together all those who are not.

Research conducted in 1994 highlighted evidence of inequality and
disadvantage experienced by many people of Irish origin. Two of the
recommendations of the research have been supported and put into
practice:

1. All ethnic-monitoring systems should include an Irish category.

2. The 2001 Census should include an Irish category.

Note: The Irish in Britain, Research Report is available from Central
Books on 0202 8986 5488.


I hope you feel that this clarifies the matter for you.

Of course my question was a tad different, i was enquiring as to why Irish was considered a Race when technically its only a nationality.

Gurgle

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Of course my question was a tad different, i was enquiring as to why Irish was considered a Race when technically its only a nationality.

True, it should have been listed as European - Celtic

The Saint

Irish is an ethnicity.

homeostatic

This type of quota system is the very definition of racism. Here in the U.S., schools place weight on African-American applications. For instance, at the University of Michigan, being black scores more points for an applicant than a perfect score on the SAT test.

Whatever happen to the dream of a meritocracy in which people are allowed to achieve based solely on there ability to do so?

gaf1983

BlitzKrieg wrote:

i remember bringing something up about this way back when i was looking for work in the UK, i emailed the British govt about it and this is the response:

...The principle objective of an ethnic monitoring system is to find out
if any discrimination is taking place on the grounds of race, colour,
nationality, ethnic or national origins. The ethnic categories used
should therefore be related to this objective. It is important to
identify individually all the groups likely to be discriminated against
and to band together all those who are not...

This seems like a perfectly reasonable reason for including such a question on the form.

Now take the example of France, where it is illegal to gather information on the population's ethnicity - maybe if empirical evidence of discrimination on the grounds of race, colour, nationality, ethnic or national origins had been gathered there and such discrimination was tackled, they wouldn't be having the trouble over there at the moment.

BuffyBot

This type of quota system is the very definition of racism. Here in the U.S., schools place weight on African-American applications. For instance, at the University of Michigan, being black scores more points for an applicant than a perfect score on the SAT test.

Whatever happen to the dream of a meritocracy in which people are allowed to achieve based solely on there ability to do so?

The point is, this has nothing to do with the individual application, but is merely statistical information gathered on a national government body which has nothing to do with the admissions process.

grubber

This comes up all the time. Please don't blame the University of Manchester as it is a requirement by government that these (admittedly awful) classifications are used. Population census forms also use them.

Native Brits don't like them either as there is, for example, no category if you happen to be Scottish or Welsh or English.

I think this listing must have been compiled by a committee!