TV Inspector Pays A Visit

Supercell

Just had a rather late TV inspector call.

I said, i don't have a tv, I cant receive RTE, but i do watch foreign channels on my pc.
He asked if he could see, so I showed him Channel 5 on my pc using a FreeSat card in a Dragon, i whipped the card out of the cam to demonstrate that this was needed to view it and showed the channel list, which doesnt have RTE as i've a UK freesat card, he said he never saw that before and left.

Question is, am i about to hit with a demand to pay an Irish TV license even though i can't possibly watch RTE ?

Should I have told him to bugger of at the door ?

Agent Smith

afaik you have to have a TV licence if you have anything capable of reciving tv signals....

kaimera

is it not if you have equipment capable of receiving transmissions you're liable for a license.

double checking now...

[edit]

Every household, business or institution in Ireland with a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (i.e., an aerial, satellite dish, etc.,) must have a television licence

http://oasis.gov.ie/public_utilities/telecommunications/tv_licences.html

Mossy Monk

i wonder if the fact that you dont have a terrestrial tv tuner will save your arse because mr. inspector may say, "hasnt got regular tv and doesnt have Sky"

Supercell

Damn , i should have told him to feck off then, right, looks like ntl freebie time..i wonder if they sent him ...grr.

Supercell

I'm going to sit tight on this, i cannot receive rte with my sat card currently so why should i be paying for it.

Supercell

Mossy Monk wrote:

i wonder if the fact that you dont have a terrestrial tv tuner will save your arse because mr. inspector may say, "hasnt got regular tv and doesnt have Sky"

I made a mistake there, i pulled the card and channel 5 froze, and then said it was a uk card (it is) and showed it to him, but the yellow house card is the same as the standard Sky card..so hoping he doesnt think i'm a sky subscriber

DMC

Um... may I be the first to say...

Sponger!!!

But seriously, yes. You are, by hook or by crook, looking at television signal. Therefore, the quote from oasis.gov.ie is correct, and thats the law.

Sorry about that.

Supercell

Should have told him to fook off and claimed to be watchin pr0n DVD's at the pc..bah.

Supercell

Surely i've got reasonable claim to not pay RTE subs, I never/cannot watch the damn channels..anyone ever been in the same situation ?

DMC

Just to add... if you thought this might go to court, and you explained you were watching Channel 5 on a UK FTV card, the judge may get mighty confused. A nice contribution to the poor box at the back of the court may help.

Also, to compound the greyness of a grey area... you have a UK FTV card issued to a UK address. They have no legal basis here.

It would be a nice test case if you had a solicitor as a relative.

fatherdougalmag

Ah the old TV licence chestnut. When will they ever revise this archaic method of collecting this fee. For starters, doesn't the licence fee actually go to non-TV related public broadcasting/services too? Things like radio, RTE symphony orchestra, etc.?

As the law currently stands though, TV tuner cards are covered and require a license. Whether or not this particular inspector is up to speed on this technology or was just told to go after any house with a satellite dish on it might be the deciding factor.

Supercell

Its not a TV tuner card, if I plug an aerial into it or ntl..i wont see anything, the only way I could see/hear RTE would be through a NI freesat card, or a ROI Sky card.

DMC

The law in this regard is tighter than a duck trying to fart in a river.
They have no reason to revise this, as its as unambigious a line in law as I have ever seen.

Collecting, well there have been complaints that An Post arent as effective in sussing out as they used to. But if there is a dish on the side of the house, and that house doesnt have a TV licence... you're a sitting duck.

Supercell

DMC wrote:

Um... may I be the first to say...

Sponger!!!

But seriously, yes. You are, by hook or by crook, looking at television signal. Therefore, the quote from oasis.gov.ie is correct, and thats the law.

Sorry about that.

I'm not "sponging " a damn thing that the Irish TV license is for and don't see why i should pay for something I dont use.

Supercell

DMC wrote:

The law in this regard is tighter than a duck trying to fart in a river.
They have no reason to revise this, as its as unambigious a line in law as I have ever seen.

Collecting, well there have been complaints that An Post arent as effective in sussing out as they used to. But if there is a dish on the side of the house, and that house doesnt have a TV licence... you're a sitting duck.

Yep , I reckon you are correct, my mistake was to let him in seeing the signals, am 100% certain this is ntl driving, have been getting their spam three time weekly....if i am charged for this..its six free ntl months..followed by a cancellation..am not happy..

DMC

Of course, I jest with the comment. I'm sure you remember the ads years ago for TV licensing.

As I said, if you get a summons, suss it out legally, if you know a solicitor that could advise you to see if you have a case.

But the law is against you.

watty

In UK techinically watching a LIVE web feed of a terrestrial TV channel needs a licence but an archived feed doesn't

If you watch ANY TV channel via cable, broadband, Satellite, MMDS or even an aerial you need a TV licence.

AFIK you can have a TV and not pay a TV licence if the TV is in storage and the PLUG IS CUT OFF.

Sparky

btw do you have to pay for every tv in the house or just the house in general?

Supercell

I don't have a tv.

DMC

Sparky_S wrote:

btw do you have to pay for every tv in the house or just the house in general?

One licence per household. And you could have 200 TV's in your living room, or none in the case of Longfield. As discussed, in the eyes of the law, he has "equipment capable of receiving a television signal (i.e., an aerial, satellite dish, etc.,)"

Sparky

Longfield wrote:

I don't have a tv.

Yeah i know , anyone else know.

Supercell

watty wrote:

In UK techinically watching a LIVE web feed of a terrestrial TV channel needs a licence but an archived feed doesn't

If you watch ANY TV channel via cable, broadband, Satellite, MMDS or even an aerial you need a TV licence.

AFIK you can have a TV and not pay a TV licence if the TV is in storage and the PLUG IS CUT OFF.

Watty, I think in Ireland if you can demonstrate that you cannot receive RTE with your curent kit then you shouldnt have to pay a license
I believe i am in that zone and will fight it tooth and nail, if the TV license is for RTE, then i want a tv and an aerial to watch it provided by rte, as i cannot see it currently with the kit i have.

bucks73

What if you said the sateillite dish was for your broadband?

yvry

Let's say you have a legal sky card with the basic channels and not a tv, you are able to watch rte but do not have a tv, but like in this case if you have a satellite pci card with a common interface + dragon card old firmware, you will be able to wacht rte and still not have a aereal or tv, so in this case do you or not have to paid for a tv licentie??? :cool:

secret_squirrel

Longfield wrote:

if the TV license is for RTE,

You're being bloody minded and foolish. Where the cash for the license goes is irrelevant in terms of the law.

It is essentially a tax on watching any kind of TV transmission. Which you are doing - the fact that the channels arent irish and its on a pc is irrelevant.

My advice hold out for as long as poss then pay before you get a court summons. Alternatively cross your fingers that you confuzzled the inspector so he doesnt do anything.

(Interesting side note) The UK mobile providers are crapping themselves about whether the Govt decides that you need a TV license to watch TV transmissions on a mobile phone :eek:

RainyDay

Longfield wrote:

Watty, I think in Ireland if you can demonstrate that you cannot receive RTE with your curent kit then you shouldnt have to pay a license
I believe i am in that zone and will fight it tooth and nail,

You can fight it all you like, but the law is the law, and they ain't gonna make an exception for you. If you want to try & get the law changed, then by all means get a campaign going, but whether you love it or hate it, the law is the law.

If I can prove that I don't use public hospitals, can I reduce the level of income tax I'm paying?

BTW, the entire licence fee doesn't go to RTE. Don't TG4 & Lyric FM also get a slice of the fee?

DMC

The licence fee goes almost mainly to RTÉ to fund all its services (orchestras, radio etc.) TG4 gets a handout from the govt.

But recently, all broadcasters, TV3 and TG4 can draw into a fund from the licence fee dedicated to independently produced programmes that have a public service remit.

Sponge Bob

Longfield wrote:

Just had a rather late TV inspector call.

I said, i don't have a tv, I cant receive RTE, but i do watch foreign channels on my pc.

Legally it matters not but is an interesting test case I would say.

You have no aerial, an important distinction.

You cannot receive a broadcast from within the state.

All Irish channels are encrypted, they can only be decrypted with a SKY box and Sub card.....unless he understood cams and dreamboxes after you told him

He asked if he could see, so I showed him Channel 5 on my pc using a FreeSat card in a Dragon, i whipped the card out of the cam to demonstrate that this was needed to view it and showed the channel list, which doesnt have RTE as i've a UK freesat card, he said he never saw that before and left.

Hopefully he had a headache and will not do anything, then again the feckers may want to see my PC if they call around in future ...thanks to you.

Question is, am i about to hit with a demand to pay an Irish TV license even though i can't possibly watch RTE ?

Better get a licence , yes.

Should I have told him to bugger of at the door ?

If you are brought to court yes, get a licence and you may avoid court.

Sponge Bob

DMC wrote:

The law in this regard is tighter than a duck trying to fart in a river.
They have no reason to revise this, as its as unambigious a line in law as I have ever seen.

Dunno DMC. IIRC persons around the border who could not get RTE but could get BBC were exemped from licences, can anyone remember this in Donegal / Inishown side in the 1960s and 1970s , teh law dates from 1960 or so. Once RTE put a relay in they were liable.

Unless you have a SKY sub or an Tuner (or DTT card in S Dublin) you cannot receive RTE , period.

The symphony orchestra issue is bollix IMO, they are mainly on the radio for which there is no licence any more

Frisian

Here's another trend.
From 01. 01. 2007 in germany one has to pay tv licence for an internet-pc or wap-mobile. Just wait until they introduce that over here.

Our man in Havana

I would have told him to go away and obtain a search warrant. Dismantle setup whilst he is gone or buy licence during the time involved usually a few hours.

DMC

There are two distinct issues here, lets not mix them up. I think we'll keep it on Longfields problem in this thread and the moral maze as to has he got a case.

The "where does my €152 go" is for another thread really (and been done to death, many, many times here.)

Sponge Bob

Frisian wrote:

From 01. 01. 2007 in germany one has to pay tv licence for an internet-pc or wap-mobile. Just wait until they introduce that over here.

Lemme see, 1 million possible Irish 3g phones capable of receiving streaming highlights (ie TV) x €150 a pop is a lot of licence fee income .

They will really have to work on a proper legal definition of broadcast/receive/ ergo licence required to take into account the different digital delivery platforms that will be well out there in 2007

Can anyone remember the legal position on the Inishowen in Donegal up to the 1970s where you could receive BBC from the north but not RTE from the south, IIRC they were excused the TV licence on the grounds that RTE was not available where it should have been.

That may be what Longfield needs for his 'defence'

Wiggy

Longfield wrote:

I don't have a tv.

That's not the point. The license fee is a tax, not a subscription. Taxes are not refundable because you don't use the services they provide.

Sponger.....

Pay up....

BrianD

Longfield wrote:

I'm going to sit tight on this, i cannot receive rte with my sat card currently so why should i be paying for it.

Irrelevant. You are paying a licence on the TV receiver in your home. The old "I don't watch RTE" won't wash.

However, with the growth of all these new devices capable of receiving broadcasts they law makers are going to have some fun framing new legislation.

Personally, the licence fee is good and yes it a tax. Broadcasting is an important form of cultural expression and it should be funded by the community. The licence fee is not unusual - UK and Germany have it as do many countries. We don't always use what we pay our taxes for but the community is better off for it.

People with Sky seem to have a chip on their shoulder (in general) about paying the licence as they believe they are paying twice. This is not correct. They are paying Sky for delivery of TV not as a TV broadcaster per se. While we are now spoilt for choice with commercial, subscription and licence funded channels none of this would have come about without the years of licence fee funded broadcasting in either the UK or Ireland.

Mossy Monk

imo they should change it to a stealth tax as then everyone would be paying it

Sponge Bob

Mossy Monk wrote:

imo they should change it to a stealth tax as then everyone would be paying it

But then TV3 could be 'entitled' to a cut from the tax pool , we can't have that can we

DMC

Interesting thought.
Do TV3 pay a TV licence?

Sponge Bob

DMC wrote:

Interesting thought.

Imagine if you paid your TV Licence and could ONLY receive TV3 . I'd shoot meself !

kenmc

BrianD wrote:

Personally, the licence fee is good and yes it a tax.

Why is the licence fee good? We have to pay a licence fee and then sit through hours and hours of advertising? That in itself is double taxation in a way - it should be one or the other - licence or ads. The stations are getting oodles of cash from advertising anyway - the paultry amount we pay in tv licence fees relative to that is a drop in the ocean - therefore it wouldn't be missed if it was scrapped - therefore it should be scrapped.

Tazz T

This thread comes up time and time again. There's a huge range of anomalies in the TV licence and with the advent of streaming TV over the Internet, this is set to get bigger.

TV licencing law is archaic and really needs a rethink in how it works.

Frankly, whatever you call it, it's essentially a tax in its present format. I personally believe it should be scrapped and all TV stations made accountable for their own income - but there, we're getting into another debate.

DMC

Lads, as I stated. We've done the "abolish the TV tax" to death. Its something that crops up here every six months, and its the same row. Check the broadcasting forum for more (look through the threads from the beginning.)

jaggiebunnet

BrianD wrote:

People with Sky seem to have a chip on their shoulder (in general) about paying the licence as they believe they are paying twice. This is not correct. They are paying Sky for delivery of TV not as a TV broadcaster per se. While we are now spoilt for choice with commercial, subscription and licence funded channels none of this would have come about without the years of licence fee funded broadcasting in either the UK or Ireland.

Maybe you should come round to my house where the only way you will get a reception for any of the terrestial channels that I pay a tv licence for is to pay again for sky. :mad:

ixtlan

Some comments...

Is it not the case that if you don't have a TV license you are liable for a radio license if you have one?

I think Longfield should pay as the long is quite clear. However I agree with Mossy Monk that this should be a stealth tax. A TV license fee is very illogical in that the number of houses which do not have a TV is so small. Taxes are designed to change behaviour or take money from those who want to use a service. However if almost everyone in the state uses the service then it would seem better to tax everyone rather than spend such efforts tracking people down and maintaining lists and so on. Just transfer the equivalent monies to whoever (mostly RTE I assume). Everyone thinks this is a tax anyhow.

Also, what actually happens if an inspector calls? Do they really give you a chance to pay? Or do you immediately go to court? I mean if you get a chance, who would ever end up in court?

Ix.

Foggy43

When I purchased a TV Tuner Card for my PC the cashier said 'I'm afraid I must ask you for your full name and address. Your TV Tuner Card requires a TV license'. That is the law in the UK.

Longford! Where you asked or told this when you purchased your TV Tuner Card? The retailer here in the UK must inform the licensing authority the details of the sale. This is probably why you got a visit.

Macy

Molly Dawson wrote:

Longford! Where you asked or told this when you purchased your TV Tuner Card? The retailer here in the UK must inform the licensing authority the details of the sale. This is probably why you got a visit.

Isn't the law here, not even for Telly's never mind tuner cards.

Foggy43

Macy!
I found the Wireless and Telegraphy Act 1926 for Ireland!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA19Y1988S1.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA5Y1972S1.html

I have by no means read it all but Longford might need to go through it in detail.

watty

Longfield wrote:

Watty, I think in Ireland if you can demonstrate that you cannot receive RTE with your curent kit then you shouldnt have to pay a license
I believe i am in that zone and will fight it tooth and nail, if the TV license is for RTE, then i want a tv and an aerial to watch it provided by rte, as i cannot see it currently with the kit i have.

You should lose. That might be true in UK but not Ireland.

In UK if you can prove you CAN ONLY receive foriegn TV (unlikely) then you don't need a licence.

In Ireland even if you can only get the two CCTV channels at 45W and no Irish TV you need a licence. It is the ability to watch a TV transmission, not how you received it or which station it is in Ireland.


In any case the Licence is a viewing Tax, not an RTE viewing ticket. Not all of it goes to RTE. Even TV3 in theory could get up to 10% if they bothered to commision local produced programs.

Tony

for the purposes of the act a PC card is regarded as wireless telegraphy apartus

watty

kenmc wrote:

Why is the licence fee good? We have to pay a licence fee and then sit through hours and hours of advertising? That in itself is double taxation in a way - it should be one or the other - licence or ads. The stations are getting oodles of cash from advertising anyway - the paultry amount we pay in tv licence fees relative to that is a drop in the ocean - therefore it wouldn't be missed if it was scrapped - therefore it should be scrapped.

That arguemt applies more to Pay TV. Why should a Pay TV channel have adverts at all? I resent Adverts on Pay TV.

The TV licence is NOT an RTE viewing ticket, it is a tax on viewing any TV.