TV Inspector Pays A Visit

Sponge Bob

watty wrote:

The TV licence is NOT an RTE viewing ticket, it is a tax on viewing any TV.

IIRC the UK position is that anyone in a premises with a telly on the day the inspector comes along can be done for it (if it can receive BBC etc) . In Ireland it is the 'householder. Therefore the UK has many stories about the babysitter being done for there being no current licence and we don't .

The licence is a tax on recievers not tubes, therefore a CRT monitor attached to a video recorder on channel 36 (is it) incurs no licence as it is hard wired and not picking up a broadcast.

As the act (broadcasting Act 1960) came in when RTE TV was created its intention was obviously to licence the receipt of RTE broadcasts . Whether the receiver is turned on or not is irrelevant once the receiver is in the house.

In 1960 there was no such thing as a TV without a receiver built in , IE the CRT and the Receiver were one package. Nowadays its more complex.

What about Magnet BB for example....do you have to have a licence if their DSL Modem is in your house ....it being a receiver in the strict sense . What hapopens if Digiweb start to supply TV over their Metro CPE ? etc etc Were RTE to go FTA then possession of a Sky box wired to a dish would mean you could receive RTE and therefore you would have to have a licence for the Sky box .

Does anyone have info on how the situation was enforced along the border in the past and what the exact rationale is/was when the 1960 act was interpreted. ????? . If no quarter was given to BBC only households then the interpretation is simple.

Get a licence

Tazz T

By the looks of the 1926 act, anyone with a Internet connection should have a TV licence, as theoretically, it's capable of receiving TV programmes.

Cabaal

DMC wrote:

One licence per household. And you could have 200 TV's in your living room, or none in the case of Longfield. As discussed, in the eyes of the law, he has "equipment capable of receiving a television signal (i.e., an aerial, satellite dish, etc.,)"

VCR's are covered also, does not matter if their from the UK and incapable of receiving RTE/Network 2 etc, the same goes for TV's from the UK
Its a killer it really is

Tazz T wrote:

By the looks of the 1926 act, anyone with a Internet connection should have a TV licence, as theoretically, it's capable of receiving TV programmes.

shhhhhhhhhh
DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS!

BrianD

jaggiebunnet wrote:

Maybe you should come round to my house where the only way you will get a reception for any of the terrestial channels that I pay a tv licence for is to pay again for sky. :mad:

You pay a licence for the ability to receive television signals. These fees go back to the appointed broadcaster to provide content and in the past has been generally used to construct a transmission network and facilities. It goes without saying that no method of content delivery - analogue transmitter, satellite etc can provide 100% coverage of a territory. We all know that so why raise the issue? So it's far from mad. If you live in a valley you have to accept the disadvantages of living there. If you can't receive the signal then you pay the licence and the onus is on RTE to respond to your issues and improve transmission coverage.

In regard to RTE taking advertising and licence fee, I say the following:
1) Neither advertising or licence fee alone is sufficient to support a national TV broadcaster with such a small population as Ireland. Hence dual funding was necessary.
2) There was a recognition that business should have access to advertising airtime. Given that TV broadcasting in most EU countries was initially a state monopoly then the only place you could advertise would be RTE.

Obviously the times are changing on a wide range of fronts and an overhaul of how public service broadcasting is funded is well over due. However, if you are a Sky Dig customer and may a TV licence you are not paying twice for the service.

AFAIK there is no "get out" clause in the UK or Ireland if you claim only to watch foreign channels.

DMC

Sponge Bob wrote:

The licence is a tax on recievers not tubes, therefore a CRT monitor attached to a video recorder on channel 36 (is it) incurs no licence as it is hard wired and not picking up a broadcast.

Actually, the VCR alone (no monitor or screen whatsever) is evidence enough to make you pay the licence; it has a built in tuner. As Watty said, the plug cut off would help.

Back in the day, if you had a B&W TV set, and a video, you'd have to pay the colour licence, as videos never had B&W tuners! B&W TV licences no longer exist, btw.

BrianD wrote:

In regard to RTE taking advertising and licence fee, I say the following:
1) Neither advertising or licence fee alone is sufficient to support a national TV broadcaster with such a small population as Ireland. Hence dual funding was necessary.
2) There was a recognition that business should have access to advertising airtime. Given that TV broadcasting in most EU countries was initially a state monopoly then the only place you could advertise would be RTE.

Agreed, but I feel it is still necessary for dual funding.

Some maths....

BBC:
Population: 60 million
TV Licence price: £126.50 / €188.21
No advertising.
Income (2005): £3.835bn stg / €5.706bn

RTÉ:
Population: 3,917,000
TV Licence price: €155
Advertising makes up 55% of revenue.
Income (2004): €343m

The only comparision you can make.

Also, it would cost almost the same money to make an hour of TV in London and Dublin, wages and other factors, there wouldnt be that drastic a difference.

Read all about it yourself. http://www.rte.ie/about/

More threads here...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62950

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-73550.html

Supercell

Thanks for all the comments .

A couple of points to the people that called me a "smonger" ??wtf?? what exactly am i sponging ? , I cannot view RTE over sat as its encrypted, simple as that. I take offence to being called a sponger, it implies i want to get something for free that I should be paying for..the only services i receive are those which anyone in the British isles and further with a larger dish (should everyone with a dish big enough to receive RTE's encrypted signal be paying the license fee too no matter where they live???!!) can receive with a similar sized dish..I CANNOT VIEW IRISH CONTENT!!..there is no sponging!!

As I do not have a "TV" card, its a computer pci card that cannot receive broadcast signals, it can be used for Satellite internet browsing and watching unencrypted channels *ahem* , to my knowlege there is no way of watching RTE on it at all, bar maybe using a spider which would be illegal in itself.

I will have my day in court over this if it comes to it.

Tony

Does your PC card not have a tuner or rf input?

Longfield wrote:

Thanks for all the comments .

A couple of points to the people that called me a "smonger" ??wtf?? what exactly am i sponging ? , I cannot view RTE over sat as its encrypted, simple as that. I take offence to being called a sponger, it implies i want to get something for free that I should be paying for..the only services i receive are those which anyone in the British isles and further with a larger dish (should everyone with a dish big enough to receive RTE's encrypted signal be paying the license fee too no matter where they live???!!) can receive with a similar sized dish..I CANNOT VIEW IRISH CONTENT!!..there is no sponging!!

As I do not have a "TV" card, its a computer pci card that cannot receive broadcast signals, it can be used for Satellite internet browsing and watching unencrypted channels *ahem* , to my knowlege there is no way of watching RTE on it at all, bar maybe using a spider which would be illegal in itself.

I will have my day in court over this if it comes to it.

rlogue

It has a satellite tuner and you can watch satellite TV. Sorry, but you will be done by the inspector if you don't pay your licence.

Supercell

Hmm, I assume, i'll get a threatening letter before i'm hauled to court over this ?

If thats the case am going to hold out and hope the inspectors head hurt after me going on about cams etc, he did seem rather confused by it all

DMC

Longfield wrote:

If thats the case am going to hold out and hope the inspectors head hurt after me going on about cams etc, he did seem rather confused by it all

Dont count on that. He did see TV on your setup, thats not too confusing. But do get legal advice. Get your solicitor to look at this thread. If your solicitor agrees with the majority of folk here, leave his office and get down the Post Office pronto.

The fine could be a lot, lot heavier if you argue the toss in court.

oasis.gov.ie wrote:

Conviction for non-payment of a television licence (first offence) is a fine of 634 euro.

If you are convicted a second time for not paying your television licence, you will be fined 1,269 euro and your television and signal equipment will be confiscated.

Is it worth that much?

danyosan

I'm not having a go at you for being a sponger, but if your recieving british channels and not RTE, shouldnt you be paying the British licence fee??

Mossy Monk

no he shouldnt, he is in Ireland

Supercell

DMC , I can see the logic of what you are saying but..

Many years ago when I was in college an living in a student dump of a house with some friends we had a visit from an inspector and and he flat out told us to get a license.

The guy I had yesterday, just said he never saw that before and left without saying that I needed one, not sure if that means he decided it wasnt worth filling in the forms or he was going to get a second opinion on it.

If worst comes to worst I'll play innocent as up until now was certain that a license wasn't required as RTE is encryped and therefore unwatchable on my setup.
Is the tuner on a sat pc card a rf tuner? , ie radio frequency, the anwer is no i think, so still not entirely convinced satellite cards are covered unlike say WinTV cards which do have rf tuners in them.

DMC

He probably needed time to think about it! As you said, it may slide....

Tell us the make and model of the card and we'll find out.

lawhec

Just to add my two cents, I believe that in the Republic, you need a licence if you have anything that allows you to view television broadcasts, so if you have no television in your house but your microwave oven allows you to watch TV3, you need a licence!

In the UK to need a licence to view any television broadcast that is either transmitted or uplinked from the UK. On D****** Spy there have been cases of posters there confirming through letters from UK TV Licensing that provided the receiver is only tuned to channels that broadcast or uplink from outside the UK does not require a licence. So in theroy someone living in Northern Ireland who has a terrestial TV aerial to receive RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TV3 and TG4 only from the Republic and has no aerial for BBC, UTV, Channel 4 and hasn't them tuned in to their receiver, they can get away from paying their TV licence. Indeed IIRC there was a successful case of this in Strabane.

Supercell

Its a DVB-S Rev 1.6 bought here

http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php?&products_id=111

With one of these installed into a 3.5 inch bay at the front of the pc connected to it..with Dragon and Freesat card inside..

http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php?cPath=1_27&products_id=8

Supercell

In case you are wondering how i keep the Freesat card active, I drive the dish to 28.2, switch the lnb feed to a Digibox I got on ebay and leave it in that overnight, the card is then good to go for another couple of months.

DMC

No RF input on that then.

It's still capable of getting a TV signal....

Tony

Under the act it would be regarded as wireless telegraphy aparatus

Our man in Havana

So by your reckoning possesion of a sky digibox and nothing else would need a licence?

Supercell

Hmm, I think a solicitors advice here is probably the way to go..probably will cost as much as bloomin' license!!

Supercell

Does anyone know if you get a letter saying get a license or else... , before a court summons like with a speeding fine for a car ?

Tony

Bond-007 wrote:

So by your reckoning possesion of a sky digibox and nothing else would need a licence?

No of course not, how you got that from my comments is beyond me

mjsmyth

This thread is getting wierd. Which part of this is so hard to understand:

"Every household, business or institution in Ireland with a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal (i.e., an aerial, satellite dish, etc.,) must have a television licence. "

That is taken from http://oasis.gov.ie/public_utilities/telecommunications/tv_licences.html

I think it makes it crystal clear. You could be watching Swahili TV for all they care, if you can receive it, you pay for a licence.

It's simple really, I don't understand the confusion.

MJ

secret_squirrel

Longfield wrote:

Does anyone know if you get a letter saying get a license or else... , before a court summons like with a speeding fine for a car ?

Generally you get a number of threatening letters before gettting a summons.

bond007 wrote:

So by your reckoning possesion of a sky digibox and nothing else would need a licence?

Where did you get that from. Tony amongst others has stated if you have any device capable of recieving a Television signal (aka a wireless telegraphy) you need a license. How difficult is this for everyone to work out?


Honestly judging by some of the posts on here they must have been putting stupid additives in the water.

Supercell

It also goes on to say ..

Each year, the government provides a grant to RTE (the national broadcasting organisation), which is funded by your television licence fee.

I can't receive RTE so why should I pay for it, am I within my rights to demand they broadcast in the clear to me privatly as I'm being forced to pay for the service?, as i'm within my consumer rights to demand that any product i purchase is functionally cabable of doing what it was sold for ?!!

You see the total sillyness of this, the UK courts as already posted have clearly recognised this, as a fellow eu member i'm betting that eu law is on my side too, I just can't afford to persue it that far..thus just want to know if its safe to wait to see if standard proceedure in these cases is to warn before taking to court, especially as the inspector didnt say I was in the wrong at any point, just that he never saw that before and then left.

Supercell

secret_squirrel wrote:

Generally you get a number of threatening letters before gettting a summons.

Thanks, in that case, i'll sit tight for the moment.

DMC

Longfield wrote:

I can't receive RTE so why should I pay for it, am I within my rights to demand they broadcast in the clear to me privatly as I'm being forced to pay for the service?, as i'm within my consumer rights to demand that any product i purchase is functionally cabable of doing what it was sold for ?!!

Forget about UK law, this is the law of the Republic of Ireland.

You have a monitor, a satellite dish, a satellite tuner and a card slot. All of which, and you showed it to yer man produces a useable TV signal. RTÉ do transmit on satellite, so you can receive RTÉ via that method (in theory) via satellite.

RTÉ is not free-to-air on any platform, other than analogue terrestrial. The way that RTÉ appears on cable and satellite shows that if you want to watch RTÉ digitally, you need to subscribe to a provider. RTÉ, in that regard, are platform neutral and are not favouring one delivery method over another.

Weather you do or not, is your choice, and you have declined.

But you have equipment that is capable of getting it. Ergo, you need a TV licence.

As was said earlier, people were paying a TV licence even before pre-1961, before Telefís Éireann started.

mjsmyth

Yes it does go on to say "Each year, the government provides a grant to RTE (the national broadcasting organisation), which is funded by your television licence fee." but the ability to receive it has nothing to do with having a licence. The part you need to worry about is the part I quoted in my original post.

As far as it goes, you have satellite equipment, ergo you need a licence. I understand the whole "I don't watch rte, why should I pay for it", but its the law and until it is challenged and changed.

If you do so and fail, conviction for non-payment of a television licence (first offence) is a fine of 634 euro (plus the an extre 155 euro for a licence)

If you are convicted a second time for not paying your television licence, you will be fined 1,269 euro and your television and signal equipment will be confiscated.

MJ

Our man in Havana

If you do so and fail, conviction for non-payment of a television licence (first offence) is a fine of 634 euro (plus the an extre 155 euro for a licence)

The average fine is less than €100 first time. The big fines are for persisant offenders.

DMC

Looking at the local papers, that seems to be right, bondy. Thats for those to take the point and take their medicine.

But if you argue the toss, and the judge rejects the challenge, the fine could be a lot more.

Ulsterman 1690

In all likelihood you will get a threatening letter stating that if you dont pay your licence within x days then they will prosecute.

Mind you you should never have even answered the door in the first place
When the inspectors call
RULE NO 1 dont answer the door
RULE NO 2 If you DO unwittingly answer the door dont let them in dont engage in conversation with them dont answer any questions tell them to get off your property and if they refuse you can call the police or use reasonable force (now where did I leave Grandads WW1 shotgun...... ?)

A few misconceptions
1) Areas with no RTE reception LEGALLY it doesnt matter. There may have been a semi-unofficial policy of turning a blind eye in such case but there was no legal basis for this
2) UK households only recieving non- UK channels. Up until a couple of years ago there USED TO BE an exemption for such households but the regulations have now been changed :mad:
3) Aerial or Sat dish but no TV DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON OASIS.IE You DONT need a licence for a satellite dish or an outdoor aerial. Outdoor aerials can be used for improving your FM radio reception and satellite dishes can be used to listen to satellite radio stations.
4) Video (with inbuilt tuner) and CRT monitor. -You still need a licence
5) Houses with more than one TV only need one licence with the obvious exception of "multi occupancy dwellings" (i.e. blocks of flats)
6) Holiday homes/second homes etc In the UK dont necessairly need a licence but in the Republic they always do while this may be unfair its a lot more unfair that some people have two houses when many people cant even afford one
7) There has been no radio licence since 1972

BrianD

DMC wrote:

Actually, the VCR alone (no monitor or screen whatsever) is evidence enough to make you pay the licence; it has a built in tuner. As Watty said, the plug cut off would help.

Back in the day, if you had a B&W TV set, and a video, you'd have to pay the colour licence, as videos never had B&W tuners! B&W TV licences no longer exist, btw.



Agreed, but I feel it is still necessary for dual funding.

Some maths....

BBC:
Population: 60 million
TV Licence price: £126.50 / €188.21
No advertising.
Income (2005): £3.835bn stg / €5.706bn

RTÉ:
Population: 3,917,000
TV Licence price: €155
Advertising makes up 55% of revenue.
Income (2004): €343m

The only comparision you can make.

Also, it would cost almost the same money to make an hour of TV in London and Dublin, wages and other factors, there wouldnt be that drastic a difference.

Read all about it yourself. http://www.rte.ie/about/

More threads here...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62950

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-73550.html

What is your point exactly?

DMC

Ah now, I wasn't responding directly to you, Brian, just putting some figures in the domain to expand my point on why I feel dual funding is still needed. PLUS links to threads where this was discussed heavily before.

BrianD

My apologies! You can see the economies of scale that the BBC enjoy. Having said that their licence fee pays for: two national terrestrial tv stations, another 4 digital tv stns, 4 national radio stations, a local radio network, a world service, digital radio channels, a huge news service, orchestras and that's probably just the obvious stuff. They also have a huge resources business unit (OB trucks, camera platforms etc) that the rest of the industry uses.

DMC

No worries, my fault by not demarcating sufficiently. They are a massive operation, 30,000 or so in London alone.

The licence fee doesnt pay for the World Service (radio), 'tis paid for by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

BBC Worldwide, the commerical arm that sells the Radio Times, DVD's CD's and programming to other countries, is the envy of the commerical sector.

Ulsterman 1690

DMC Im open to correction but I remember hearing somewhere that the Foreign office only pays 2/3 of the world service budget. The rest comes from the licence fee

RE: The abolition of the B&W licence do B&W set owners in the Republic have to pay a colour licence (doesnt sound very fair) or have B&W sets been designated "licence exempt" ?

Someone told me onetime that if you have a B&W TV and a VIDEO you still need a colour licence because the video can record in colour

Apparently 2% of UK TV licences are "monochrome" I wonder how many of B&W households are "digital ready" :eek:

DMC

I rechecked to confirm this...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/faq/news/story/2005/08/050810_wsfunding.shtml

BBC World Service does not receive any funding from the UK Licence Fee.

All TV's are covered by the one licence now in Ireland, yes, regardless of B&W or Colour. I think I mentioned a few posts ago, that yes, if you have a video recorder and a B&W TV, you need a colour licence, as the VCR has a colour tuner.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Apparently 2% of UK TV licences are "monochrome" I wonder how many of B&W households are "digital ready"

I wonder do those sets have a scart socket!

Ulsterman 1690

BBC World Service does not receive any funding from the UK Licence Fee.

I stand corrected

watty

Ulsterman fairly accurately wraps it up I think.

1huge1

agent smith wrote:

afaik you have to have a TV licence if you have anything capable of reciving tv signals....

so your telling me they can charge me for watching tv on my mobile?I think not...

Supercell

1huge1 wrote:

so your telling me they can charge me for watching tv on my mobile?I think not...

If i am having to pay for a license..then the 3g users especially (and others) should have too..wait to the howls of outrage about this.

No difference to my situation imho..I hope the govt tries it...
Possible scenarios..

1) Cheapo phone TV license
2) No license needed unless you can view the full shows unfettered.....

I'm hoping for option 2.

bungeecork

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

(...) A few misconceptions (...)
6) Holiday homes/second homes etc In the UK dont necessairly need a licence but in the Republic they always do while this may be unfair its a lot more unfair that some people have two houses when many people cant even afford one

Whoa! If I only take my TV to my holiday home when I go there to stay, does that mean I need a second TV license? Two licenses for just one TV, really?

Supercell

bungeecork wrote:

Whoa! If I only take my TV to my holiday home when I go there to stay, does that mean I need a second TV license? Two licenses for just one TV, really?

You evil sponger yes you do ....

Sorry bungeecork just taking the same stance of some other people here...yes i am bitter!!

DMC

bungeecork wrote:

Whoa! If I only take my TV to my holiday home when I go there to stay, does that mean I need a second TV license? Two licenses for just one TV, really?

RTÉ have been playing an ad on the radio for the last few summers saying the need for a TV licence in a holiday home.

watty

Video clips via 3G does not need a TV Licence. However if DVB-h was used (the only real viable broadcast video for phones) yes it would need a licence.

Without DVB-hthe 3G system is not a viable TV viewing platform.

Untill TV licence is abolished because of proliferation of portable TV, you need alicence so get out to Post office an dbuy it.

Portable radio was one the factors that killed Radio licence. But unless TV licence is abolished wishfull thinking and whinging won't avoid it.

I'm a bit fed up really of the additude in Irish society that you can do anything as long as the Garda arn't enforcing it. It is childish, immature and anti-social. I suspect it goes back to the anti colonial attitude to Dublin Castle. Well for the last 90 years it is OUR Goverment eleceted by us, so it is anti-democratic to break laws on the basis that they can be weaselled out of it.

It is thi sattidute that has led to every legal evil from Planning corruption to Child abuse.

Ulsterman 1690

Actually Longfield if you want to be 100% sure youre not breaking the law youd better get THREE licences

One for your own house
one for the other house and.....
one for the car youll be using to bring the TV between the houses :rolleyes:

bungeecork

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

(...) youd better get THREE licences

One for your own house
one for the other house and.....
one for the car youll be using to bring the TV between the houses :rolleyes:

What if I take the telly up to the top field for some DXing, do I need a field license? And if I take it there on a bicycle, a bicycle license.:D

But seriously, if a family of four share a holiday house and each visit it for a few weeks in the summer - each bringing their own telly - RTE are entitled to 8 license fees? Well send the baliffs 'round and hold me in contempt but my family pay for 4 and will not pay for 8.

Mossy Monk

Longfield wrote:

You evil sponger yes you do ....

Sorry bungeecork just taking the same stance of some other people here...yes i am bitter!!

why are you bitter?

RainyDay

bungeecork wrote:

But seriously, if a family of four share a holiday house and each visit it for a few weeks in the summer - each bringing their own telly - RTE are entitled to 8 license fees? Well send the baliffs 'round and hold me in contempt but my family pay for 4 and will not pay for 8.

Even ignoring the license issue, it would more sense to buy a cheap telly for the holiday home. You don't want to be hoofing tellies round in car boots. The owner(s) of the home could get a single licence to cover it.