Africa

bonkey

w66w66 wrote:

This model also correlates with the different IQ’s of these ethnic groups.

No. It doesn't.

I'm willing to offer as much evidence to support this refutation as you do in regards to making the claim in the first place.

To date, you've offered none, so I'll reciprocate.

But just because it’s a simplified argument doesn’t mean we can merely dismiss it, nor can we dismiss it merely because it’s purported by right wing loonies such as Stormfront.

No. Thus far we can dismiss it because thus far on this thread it has been made without enough information to evaluate its claims. In short, we can dismiss it at this point because it has offered as much to support it as my "Its all because of the Martians" theory that I put to you know...

Its all because of the Martians.

If and when it offers something more than an empty, unsupported claim, then it might need to be re-evaluated, and additional grounds to dismiss it brought forward.

/me notes incredibly low postcount...

Welcome to boards, by the way. Whats the 66 (twice) in the username about? Route 66?

jc

The Corinthian

DadaKopf wrote:

Sorry, Corinthian, I've done the research, and I'm not going to type out Ekeh's, Ranger's, Fage's and Bayart's, Storey's etc. research just for you and I haven't the time to go back through them.

We’ll just take you’re word for it then. Actually, we won’t.

And anyway, you just said you're not interested in reading them, even though I offered to send the articles to you.

Again, citing a large slab of text and claiming that you argument is backed up somewhere within it is as intellectually dishonest as you can get.

It’s not for me to back up your claims.

Shut up.

Why? He seems to have postulated a theory no less valid than yours in terms of evidence? But I like your rebuttal. Telling.

w66w66 wrote:

north Africans, Arabs and Hispanics modestly successful

I would have thought Hispanics were white, or are you adopting a different, American, definition of Hispanic? Anyhow, it’s nonsensical, as at different points in history all these groups have had differing levels of success.

This model also correlates with the different IQ’s of these ethnic groups.

Care to share a shred of credible evidence to back this up?

DadaKopf

We’ll just take you’re word for it then. Actually, we won’t.

No, YOU won't take my word for it. I've offered to hand over all the data I have on the subject.

The Corinthian

DadaKopf wrote:

I've offered to hand over all the data I have on the subject.

No, you've offered to hand over a haystack and expect us to find the needle for you.

Of course were I cynical I’d suspect that you were just trying to bombard us with a few weighty sources in the, rather likely, hope that we’re not going to spend the next few weeks going through them to either prove or disprove you - leaving you to have ‘proven’ your argument by default.

w66w66

Richard Lynn’s IQ and wealth of nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_IQ
Charles Murray and Richard J. Herrnstein's Bell curve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve.
Neither is conclusive, but they do certainly constitute a shred of evidence.

In fact, I ask you to find me one IQ study which contradicts my claims.

Wibbs

Now no one could even begin to accuse me of being a left wing liberal(as Bonkey tries in that oh so inclusive way of his but breaks into a nasty rash in the attempt:D ), but sorry I had to jump in here.

w66w66 wrote:

If you where to cut the wealth and development of the world along simply broad ethnic lines, and then where to take that structure and compare it to wealth of ethnic groups in ethnically diverse nations, a similar model will occur,

As the Corinthian has pointed out only if you take it from the present viewpoint.

with whites and oriental Asians been quite successful,

Oriental asians? So India, one of the oldest civilisations on the planet not showing up in your database?

north Africans, Arabs

Again among the oldest civilisations on the planet. Egyptians, babylonians ring any bells. When the white "race" were largely scratching in the earth those lads were doing alright IIRC.

Hispanics modestly successful

Yea, what's with the hispanics tag? What's your definition? If we take the Americas, so the Aztec, Inca and Maya were primitive in your view, where they? Among other things, they developed a calender which is far more accurate than our mess. Maybe it's the Spanish you're thinking of? So all those explorers, writers, artists, etc etc are written off. Maybe it's the wops? The eyeties and Greeks did ok for themselves too:rolleyes:

and sub-Saharan Africans relatively unsuccessful

What about the kingdoms of Kush and Zimbabwe? What about the earliest art, musical instruments and religious practices in early humans found in Africa? You see where this is going?

This model also correlates with the different IQ’s of these ethnic groups

If you take one dubious study conducted among ethnic groups in the US, where education and poverty levels just as easily explain the findings. If you take the other study, where the selection process was "tweaked" to reflect the politics of the researcher(University students in Africa not checked as an example)

This agrument of genetics is of course simplified argument

We agree there.

that doesn’t take important issue’s such as debt, agricultural subsidies, and the brain drain into account.

Agreed again. see what happens when you make sensible points?

But just because it’s a simplified argument doesn’t mean we can merely dismiss it, nor can we dismiss it merely because it’s purported by right wing loonies such as Stormfront.

When it's "proof" is dubious we can.

edit* I just knew those two studies would be brought up, even before I saw the reply. Pyschic I am.

DadaKopf

It's very easy to construct an argument that Blacks are thick.

Let's assume we're looking at America.

First, you start off by assuming that prevailing attitudes and values among those who devise the study are the 'correct' ones.

Then you ignore vital factors external to Black people themselves, like institutional discrimination including, importantly, lack of access to health and education.

Then you put these people in a room to complete an IQ test, which in practise makes those who haven't had access to education or been educated in the same way as all the smart people, on whom these IQ tests are modelled.

BAM, instant proof that Blacks are thickos.

Paraphrasing Corinthian, these findings like The Bell Curve, must be due to something else.

This thread is about Africa, not race. Let's get back on topic.

w66w66

There’s large amount's of evidence to back up what I’m saying as these two links prove, http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/09/bruce-t-lahns-new-brain-genes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
The claims I am making are certainly far from dubious, but they are certainly inconclusive, and I am not purporting that they are correct. What I am purporting though is that they legitimate arguments for explaining the disparities in wealth between different ethnic groups.

w66w66

and i am certainly not suggesting blacks are "thick".

Nasty_Girl

I tried to read all the posts so I'm sorry if this has been posted already,

Wouldn't the climate be a factor in this?

And the wars but I guess they stem from colonisim.

Karl Hungus

DadaKopf wrote:

Let's assume we're looking at America.

First, you start off by assuming that prevailing attitudes and values among those who devise the study are the 'correct' ones.

Then you ignore vital factors external to Black people themselves, like institutional discrimination including, importantly, lack of access to health and education.

Right, we're looking at America...

Now, lets not ingore the "vital factors external to Black people themselves, like institutional discrimination including, importantly, lack of access to health and education."

Yes, you're quite right on the insitutional discrimination, but you're quite wrong on the lack of access to eduction. You seem to ignore the insitutional discrimination that is affirmative action, which is discrimination in favour of blacks.

Take a read of this.

The simple fact that in America, it has been easier for a Black person to get education certainly goes against your arguement.