For all Alfa bashers!

el tel

I have a friend who has a Alfa 147. They freely admit it's a heap of junk and have to spend a small fortune keeping it on the road. What really annoys them most is when people refer to it as a 'spare spark'.

Big Nelly

Best was one time in TopGear Jeremy asked the audience about what they where driving....named out differnet types and then said Alfa.....nobody said anything.....then you get "oh yeah they probably broke down on way here!".....was very funny!!

Anyway I dont rate those awards....didnt those stupid looking Renault win aload of them a few years ago?????

prospect

maidhc wrote:

The mondeo .............. Incidently they also make a great s/h buy..

Absoloutly

maidhc wrote:

The mondeo is ......probably better to drive

Haaaaaa ha ha haa, Aren't you the right funny onion.. Thats a good one....
BTW, i have regularly driven the mondeo, and the 156, and i can tell you for fact that the alfa is a FAR better drive.


Look, some people like them, some don't. The same as every marque.
I am planning on buying one in the new year. Not to get a car thats cheap to service, or to run, or that will hold its value etc. I want a car that I love, that drives brilliantly and that handles well. If i wanted a good value, reliable every day car, i would not even entertain any BMW or Merc, I'd go for a Toyota, Mazda or Honda.

junkyard

Yes they did, and I think most of us know what Renaults are like:) and the Fiat Ritmo also won one of those awards....say no more.

ds20prefecture

maidhc wrote:

But you cant compare a 156 to a 320i or C-Class.

I can and will. I would pick the 156 over both of them. All three are marketed as so-called "compact sports saloons", meaning all three openly make concessions to practicality in favour of style and performance.

Our company also ran 2 C-Class mercs from new, and had plenty of issues with both of them, primarily electrical. Even without the gaping price difference, the Merc was a less well engineered car than the Alfa, surpassing it only in terms of rear legroom.

The 320i is a fine car, particularly in terms of engine and handling. I dislike it's samey look and it is also guilty of poor packaging. It is horrifically overpriced, and over-hyped.

Because these two are from supposed "premium" brands does not exclude their products from comparison with brands "beneath their status" as you put it. This distinction is crafted by marketing boffins and swallowed by idiots.

Regarding Alfa's build quality reputation, it has not been my experience that they are badly built. Companies can improve their actual quality (Jaguar, Audi for example) and also the perception of quality (Skoda). In my experience, the poor reputation of Alfa is based on poor quality product like the 33.

If I were buying a modern car today the first place I would put my money is on an Alfa.

ciarsd

jayok wrote:

While the experience of the Alfa Romeo owners here is positive - of course it is. That's while the still have them.

what? so I keep the mouth zipped as long as i own an Alfa and post on this forum - get a grip, this would be one of the first places I would pop into for advice/experiences on my Alfa/BMW/Honda whatever.

jayok wrote:

Ask yourself honestly would still hold onto your <insert any brand> car if it had a major failure every say 10,000 miles? Probably not.

I'm actually toying with the idea of buying another model Alfa in the new year. Like with any other car, I'm doing my homework on it at the minute, and seeing what/if anything needs to be checked out when buying. Granted with Alfa's you need to know exactly what to be looking for along with the usual checks you would carryout on a 2nd hand car - but if we all bought Toyotas or whatever we'd all be very boring..

jayok wrote:

From my observation over the last years there are about 5-7 owners of Alfa on these boards that post regularly with 147s, 156s and someone (bmofarrell I believe) has a 156 2.5 V6 monster. This 5-7 users represents a small fraction of the overall Alfa owners and that's why it is necessary to look beyond this board for a true interpretation of a cars' reliability. I apply this logic to all cars, not just Alfa.

valid point, but at the same time, all 7 of us cannot be wrong all the time? or is it coincidence?
having said that, of the 7 or so owners/drivers, I think we've all been honest and acknowledged that if you want to buy an Alfa be prepared to walk away from a few when viewing - no one ever said that they were all singing all dancing and as reliable as a boring oul plasticy Jap car for example
bmoferrell's car is the GTA model (thats 3.2 V6)

jayok wrote:

If you're fond of observation, consider this: How many 92/93/94 Alfa Romeo's do you see on the road? Comapre that to how many 92/93/94 Toyota, Nissan, Honda's?

another valid point, but Alfa Romeo is/was certainly not as popular in Ireland back in the early 90s - the explosion of ownership only came with the release of the 156. How many Alfa dealers did you see back in the early 90s anyway?

Yet another interesting read.

Mailman

headlight bulbs do not need to be changed by a mechanic but you do need dainty hands and an ability to contort to replace bulbs.

156 is very popular because it is a very sweet drive and I went searching for a mainstream vehicle of similiar size, age and price and nothing comes close to the same power.

Most modern 2 litre executive cars are pushing out 140BHP. An early alfa 156 pushes out 155, a later one 165 and delivers the power in a eager way.

I myself would never buy another another moderate to high milage 156 without a full/complete service history. Even then I might not as they may have run it without oil between services.

maidhc

ds20prefecture wrote:

I can and will. I would pick the 156 over both of them. All three are marketed as so-called "compact sports saloons", meaning all three openly make concessions to practicality in favour of style and performance.

Indeed, they do. The A4 could also come into this category and would have been about half ways between the alfa and merc in price. But as you recognise yourself, this is all marketing anyway (why dont they stiffen the suspension on an octaiva etc...). The BMW IMO is worth the price difference, the merc isnt, but is still a more desirable brand that Alfa for 90% of that particular market.

ds20prefecture wrote:

Our company also ran 2 C-Class mercs from new, and had plenty of issues with both of them, primarily electrical. Even without the gaping price difference, the Merc was a less well engineered car than the Alfa, surpassing it only in terms of rear legroom.

The 320i is a fine car, particularly in terms of engine and handling. I dislike it's samey look and it is also guilty of poor packaging. It is horrifically overpriced, and over-hyped.

Mercs are bad at the moment, no doubt there, I'd prefer an alfa to one. I think the BMW is expensive, but they are still a fine car. Worth the price difference over an Alfa, if for no reason other than you will get it back on trade in.

ds20prefecture wrote:

Because these two are from supposed "premium" brands does not exclude their products from comparison with brands "beneath their status" as you put it. This distinction is crafted by marketing boffins and swallowed by idiots.

I agree. But the distinction exists. Whether it is a honda or an Alfa, you wont get BMW money on a resale. All I am saying is the Alfa is no more worthy of comparison than a mondeo is.

ds20prefecture wrote:

If I were buying a modern car today the first place I would put my money is on an Alfa.

I would buy a nice secondhand one, but the stories of turbo chargers and cambelts in JTDs scare the hell out of me. I wouldnt buy a new one because of the depreciation.

jayok

unkel wrote:

You haven't given any details. I suspect you just bought a lemon that was abused by previous drivers that did not maintain it properly

Such a shame

May be its was a lemon, but the shame was we bought it. We bought it from new and stuck to its service schedule religiously - not that it really made a difference the first failure was the coolant seal at 6,000 miles (first service was supposed to be 9,000 miles). The second was the gearbox failure at 18,000 miles, the third (strike 3 I am out) was sump oil leak at 22,000 miles.

It was a shame, a comfortable car nice looking car. But the purpose my car serves it to transport my family around the place. I do not need my wife breaking down in the middle of nowhere - even with AA cover.

ciarsd wrote:

what? so I keep the mouth zipped as long as i own an Alfa and post on this forum - get a grip, this would be one of the first places I would pop into for advice/experiences on my Alfa/BMW/Honda whatever.

Of course not, its good to have a discussion. I take on board your points about the good fortune you've had with your Alfa. And long may it continue - but people need to be aware of the bad points also.

ciarsd wrote:

I'm actually toying with the idea of buying another model Alfa in the new year. Like with any other car, I'm doing my homework on it at the minute, and seeing what/if anything needs to be checked out when buying. Granted with Alfa's you need to know exactly what to be looking for along with the usual checks you would carryout on a 2nd hand car - but if we all bought Toyotas or whatever we'd all be very boring..

Knock yourself out, again great looking cars, if it wasn't for my experience I would review them. Please bear in mind I am not basing my view on just hearsay or the general view, I am basing it on my experience. And during my experience and research -I ended up taking Alfa Romeo to court- I was not the only one to suffer with reliability issues.

ciarsd wrote:

bmoferrell's car is the GTA model (thats 3.2 V6)

My bad - I knew it was some sort of monster!

ciarsd wrote:

another valid point, but Alfa Romeo is/was certainly not as popular in Ireland back in the early 90s - the explosion of ownership only came with the release of the 156. How many Alfa dealers did you see back in the early 90s anyway?

True, but Alfa have been in Ireland a very long time (didn't an Alfa Romeo win the first Phoenix Park road race?). The reason they were less popular in the older days was for the simply reason - reliability. In the hey days between 99-00 they were bought a company cars simply because they were cheaper with a better they say an Audi equivalent. This kept BIK down and thus Alfa experienced massvie growth. After three years of experience some fleet managers (I know of two) then discovered the horrendous running/service costs of the cars compared to alternative makes. As such a whole load of Alfa Romeo's were dumped onto the 2nd hand market and the price plummeted and this fed further depreciation. Don't believe me? Fair enough, but again, just from an observational point of view I see less 04 / 05 Alfas on the road that I did in 99/00

Eoin

jayok wrote:

Fair enough, but again, just from an observational point of view I see less 04 / 05 Alfas on the road that I did in 99/00

True, I also didn't see any 04/05 Alfas on the road in 99/00

jayok

eoin_s wrote:

True, I also didn't see any 04/05 Alfas on the road in 99/00

Ooops, I meant there seems to be less 04/05 registered Alfa's on the road today, than 99/00 registered Alfas on the road in 1999/2000 (i.e comparison by numbers)

maidhc

jayok wrote:

I ended up taking Alfa Romeo to court- I was not the only one to suffer with reliability issues.

Out of interest, what happened in the end? Did Alfa ever offer you a new car or anything?

jayok

maidhc wrote:

Out of interest, what happened in the end? Did Alfa ever offer you a new car or anything?

In the end they took the car back and refunded us the money to clear the outstanding loan on the car and bills for the car. So as such we were back to square one with no car and we just bought another one as if we never went down the Alfa route!

alias no.9

jayok wrote:

Don't believe me? Fair enough, but again, just from an observational point of view I see less 04 / 05 Alfas on the road that I did in 99/00

Cars reaching the end of their production life cycle tend to sell in fewer numbers. The 156 has been on sale here since 1998 and the 159 is mere months away and is probably overdue. 8 years is an extremely long lifecycle for car these days.

UberNewb

Had a good laugh thinking that some Alfa Romeo owners are getting excited about coming 3rd in that bullsh1t competition!

Have you forgotten that the Alfa Romeo 156 came first in 1998 and look at how badly it performs in ALL the surveys.

At least the 156 came 1st and not 3rd!

stormin

I drive a 156 and this is a fascinating thread. I must be really lucky. I've driven the crap out of mine and have never had a moments trouble with it. I've driven all sorts of vehicles over the years and my 156 is the favourite.

I think people are missing the fact that if you buy a second hand one with FSH it's a lot of car and fun for the money.

I wonder how many alfa owners there actually are on boards?

The Clown Man

Get used to the Alfa bashers. They are everywhere and they all drive for the sake of getting there.

And get used to smiling smugly and knowing what the poor souls are missing out on.

That's what I do.

I know lots of Alfa owners and we all love them. But some people will never get it. The same way I will never get why people eat 3 day old bread before eating the new loaf or why people will spend €100 on a duffle coat.

jayok

The same way I will never get why people eat 3 day old bread before eating the new loaf....

or way people try to drive a 3 year old Alfa instead of buying a new one

ds20prefecture

stormin wrote:

I wonder how many alfa owners there actually are on boards?

Good question, so I posted a poll.

maidhc

In fairness, for every Alfa Basher there is an Alfa Zealot who believes driving a Toyota is akin to selling your soul to satan! Its a bit like the way apple compter people defend the brand to the last.

I guess at the end of the day there is a place for Alfa, although maybe not in the hearts of those who want a thoroughly reliable and saleable car. I dont question the style of Alfas, or that they make for a slightly sportier drive than the class average. But I really dont think thought that they are ferraris any more than my New Holland tractor!

There is space for difference: I dare say the place would be as boring if everyone drove Alfas as if everyone drove Toyotas.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

I guess at the end of the day there is a place for Alfa, although maybe not in the hearts of those who want a thoroughly reliable and saleable car

I reckon we can all agree on that