Triumph Tiger 2006

art

Anybody got any experiences with the Triumph Tiger?

I'm hoping to be a position to afford a new bike in January and was thinking of a big Traille, basically the GS1200, but to get the full spec on that bike will cost about 17,500 whereas the Tiger comes in with heated handrests, built-in panniers etc for just under 12,000. The savings are huge so, all things being equal, the Triumph looks like the better buy. So just wondering is there any general advice out there for me either way?

Cheers,
art

WILKEL

I would not go near one for two reasons
1 - resale value will be rubbish and they are bringing out a new model soon (as far as i know) which will depress the resale value further.
2. - not too sure about Triumph's relability - heard a few stories that you wont read in the patrotic British press.
I would get a GS1200 if you could strech to it - had one on trial for two weeks in september - fantastic machine. A KTM Advendure would be good also.
You are right though - the big trailie is the way to go in Ireland.

Garibaldi

Resale value is a bit of a joke on almost any big-bore machine these days, it seems. Particularly with the "luxury" marques. Personally, I've mostly gone for the Aprilias and BMWs of this world (I've been known to slum it with Suzukis and Hondas too, though ) and, without exception, resale value has been ludicrously crap. Basically, I'd accept that resale on either of those machines is going to be painful, and get on with picking which one you'd rather have than being concerned about the next buyer. Unless, of course, I've been going about this re-selling the wrong way all these years. Feel free to educate me.
From what I've heard about the 1200, it's had its technical teething problems that have, for the most part, been sorted out by now. However, I believe it suffers from some severe rust problems, moreso even than the previous models, which is somewhat ironic considering the much greater use of plastics in the 1200. Also, if you plan to get it serviced at a main dealer, it can really cost an arm and a leg, so I'd ask some current owners about that before I buy, if I were you. In fact, finding a long-term owner to ask about all aspects of these bikes is probably your best bet.
Personally, I'd go for the Tiger. They've had their fair share of problems in the past too but, again, these all seem to have been sorted out. The parts Triumph use also seem to be of a higher quality, and not as prone to corrosion as the BMWs. I know Triumph have made some changes to the Tiger in the past year, but I hadn't heard there was a new model coming out, got a link Wilkel? I'd be interested in taking a look at that.
Oh yeah, and I had a KTM 950 Adventure for a few days this Summer and it was like riding a 7x2 plank. On the narrow side. :eek: However, if you have an iron ass, they're a seriously quality machine, outstripping both of the others mentioned in all areas but comfort.
So, bottom line, from what I've experienced/been told, the bikes stack up like this:
1: Triumph Tiger
2: KTM 950 Adventure
3: BMW R 1200 GS

By the way, have you considered the Aprilia Capo Nord Rally Raid? It suffers from the standard desperate resale value (Irish bike market idiosyncrasy), but it's easily a match for the GS in terms of comfort and performance, and better, IMHO, in terms of quality of manufacture.
Bloody hell! I wasn't expecting to ramble this much. Let us know what you decide on and why, and your experience with the bike.
p.s.: The standard lights on the GS are crap, and the factory fog lights are about €600 extra! :eek:

art

Hey, thanks very Garibaldi for taking the time to post all that, makes good reading.

I've have a Triumph and never experienced any reliability problems - just the opposite even. Never heard any mention before of reliability problems with the Tiger but then that's why I posted here afterall, to get other people's opinions.

The GS1200 seems hugely respected but when I visit BMW forums, there seems to be a fair amount of complaints, especially for those that went with the ABS options. The rust issues you mention would be a worry here in Ireland, and I've no garage, the bike would be just under a dust cover when parked. But the overall spec of the machine can't be faulted and I like the idea of getting a shaft drive.... plus I carry a pillion regularly and the GS is supposed to be comfortable that way.

Never considered the Caponord really. I went to look at one about two years ago and thought it looked very plastic, the large front end put me off a bit too. But I've haven't seen this "Rally Raid" you refer to so I'll go search that one out.

I expect I really need to arrange test drives and form my own "feeling" about the bikes - just looking at pictures of the things is getting me nowhere

Garibaldi

You caught me at a moment when I was supposed to be doing work that I didn't want to do.

There's a big debate, in certain circles, about whether or not the legendary reliability of the BMWs is actually true or not. Some say it was, many moons ago, but it's been in an unfortunate decline in recent years. It's not something that seems to be affecting their sales, though. As you say, servo failure on the earlier versions of the 1200 ABS was a, to say the least, big concern, as it meant you had next to no braking power at all. As far as I'm aware, that's been sorted, though. I think there was a recall done, or bikes had the necessary work carried out when they went in for a service (assuming it hadn't already failed ). Sure, any new bike will have teething troubles.
The Capo Nord, up to and including the 2003 model, really didn't appeal to me either, but the standard CN was updated to look like the Rally Raid from 2004 onwards (all the BikeWorld stock is pre-2004, if you're ever in the area...not that you'd know it by the price - another idiosyncrasy).
Standard: http://www.aprilia-palatina.de/apcapoabs.gif
Rally Raid: http://www.aprilia-palatina.de/apcaporaid.gif

In the course of looking for some info on a new Tiger model, I came across this forum: http://triumphrat.net Some interesting stories/opinions on there. Coincidentally, there seem to be quite a few from those switching from BMW to Triumph aswell.

art

Exactly as you said, the only place I saw one was at Bikeworld - if their stock is old that puts a new interesting perspective on things. The two pictures you posted certainly showed were spot on - the first is the plastic-y looking Caponord I didn't like but the second is far more interesting looking altogether and has seriously got me thinking about the Caponords now (You're supposed to be helping me narrow the choices, not make them wider!! )

I visited the triumph forum which was interesting, and sort of re-assuring in a way - plus the link to the GS forum which was, dunno, bit sad really! Seemed like a muddled bunch posting on the UK GS forum, bit off putting really. I think at heart I'm a fan of the under-dog and the GS just isn't sitting happy with me that way.

I went to Aprilia's home site - I noticed that the Caponord comes with a very basic default spec - no centre stand, no heated grips, no hazard light (ffs!) though I picked up the impression (though the site has no firm information) that the Rally Raid has a better basic spec?

What I want is a bike that I can put hard luggage on (or comes with it as standard even better), has lots of torque, pulls from low revs okay (not too concerned about top end speed so), good lights, good screen and is fairly agile. Plus a pillion has to be comfortable.

I'll try get out to Bikeworld again and maybe look then at the Tigers and Caponords again, get a better idea of their comparative prices and equipment and so on.

(thanks again for the tips)

Garibaldi

Forget everything I said. As luck would have it, I met a black KTM 950 this morning, and it was absolutely fuggin gorgeous (looked like it had a new saddle, mind you). Buy it and give me a go.

pbergin

Check out the times today, they have an article on the Caponord

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2005/1116/4132911546MOT16BIKETEST_P4.html

Aprilia's ETV 1000 Caponord follows the well tried and tested 'big traily', or as our European neighbours would have it, 'motard' formula. A tall machine, with a litre or more high-torque engine, long travel suspension, large fuel tank and dual purpose, Aprilia's declared aim is "total touring, total comfort".

The advent of the 'big trailies' can arguably be traced back to BMW's 1980 R 80 GS. For a while the concept remained a BMW thing until, in 1989, the appearance of Honda's XRV 750 Africa Twin. Nowadays, the roll call of 'big trailies' includes BMW's R 1200 GS, the Cagiva Navigator, Ducati's Multistrada 1000DS, Honda's XL 1000V Varadero, KTM's 950 Adventure, Triumph's 955i (and soon to be 1050i) Tiger and the identical Suzuki DL 1000 V-Stroms and Kawasaki KLV 1000s.

It is a crowded field but, if you are interested in this sector, at least there is plenty of choice. That makes the answer to "what's best?" a bit difficult. So enormously has build quality and reliability improved that these days it is hard to name a bad bike. Even harder to declare emphatically that X is better than Y.

In terms of price it is also a highly competitive marketplace. Virtually all the 'big trailies' are priced in the €12,000 to €14,000 range. The Aprilia Caponord is normally priced the same as Triumph's 955I Tiger at €11,950 but is available on special offer at €10,500. That definitely makes it worth a closer look.

The Caponord wouldn't be the best choice if competing in the Paris-Dakar was your sole ambition. Most people interested in 'big trailies' simply want a bike that is a pleasure to ride and which, when touring, can take the less travelled tracks in its stride.

The engine with its twin balance shafts is responsive and smooth running. Power delivery is linear throughout the rev range, although it starts to run out of breath around 8,500rpm. Not that you are likely to go there, 4,500rpm in top gear gives a very laid back, go-on-for-ever-and-a-day, 125 km/h cruising speed.

There is a six-speed gearbox, not that such a high-torque engine really needs six gears, it's just following the modern fashion. The gear change is a bit notchy, more robust than agricultural.

The suspension, true to the big 'traily' formula, has long travel. That imposes strain on the final drive chain. To offset this there is a spring-loaded jockey wheel similar to that on Yamaha's XT 500. In our view it could do with a stronger spring.

The frame is of a twin beam aluminium-magnesium construction. Some may think this is rather lightweight for the rough and tumble for which 'big trailies' are intended. We have not heard of a frame failure and know of a rider, one not known for his gentleness with machinery, who thrashed his Caponord round the world with nary a bother.

The front forks have dirt shields but no fork gaiters, which we would prefer for serious touring. Rear suspension is simple to adjust, a knurled wheel so well placed that you can change settings without getting off the machine.

The wheels are spoked but of an ingenious design which both enables tubeless tyres to be used and, if needs be, a spoke to be replaced without disturbing the tyre. There is also a 12v power socket convenient for powering a heated waistcoat which, if you have never tried one on a cold day, you should!

The brakes are excellent. Our test bike did not have the optional switchable ABS which, strangely, is not often imported to Ireland.

The seat height is 820mm, fairly modest for this kind of bike. It is very comfortable from a rider's point of view and our pillion passenger declared it good, albeit with her usual reservations about sitting on a modified ski-slope!

The handlebars and controls are well placed, the mirrors excellent with robust man-sized lock nuts. The 'dashboard' is well laid out. We have two minor gripes; it would be better if there were left and right indicator warning lights, rather than a single one on the left.

Also, the way in which the indicator light is sighted means that if it is in direct sunshine you cannot see it. A button on the bars so one could scroll through the LCD information when on the move would be so much better than a fascia-mounted button which can really only be used when stationary.

This kind of machine really ought to come with a centre stand as standard, rather than the option it is. There is a whole host of useful dealer fitted options: rugged alloy panniers and topbox, engine crash bars, different height seats, heated grip, tail and tank bags and a heavy duty rear suspension kit, enabling you to equip your machine for the really demanding trip. However, we feel that in standard trim the oil-cooler, mounted below the radiator on the right, could be vulnerable. Fitting a protective grille would be well within the capability of even the most dexterously challenged.

In terms of handling, like any of the good 'trailies', if you have never ridden one before you will be amazed just how well they hold the road, how nimble and confidence inspiring they are in the twisty bits. You wonder why anyone tolerates the discomfort of sports bikes for ordinary road use when they could go every bit as fast in such comfort.

The fuel tank's 25 litre capacity gives a very useful, close on 400 kilometres range, confirming the machine's serious touring credentials. This is the kind of machine that really can do almost anything you ask of it. Given the discounts currently available, this is the least costly 'big traily' on the Irish market.

Tech Spec

ENGINE: 998cc fuel injected,60º 4-stroke liquid-cooled DOHC 8 valve V-twin, 10.4:1 compression. 100 bhp 97bhp (72kW) @ 8,250rpm. Torque 97Nm @ 6,250rpm. 6-speed gearbox, chain drive.

FRAME: double wave, twin beam aluminium-magnesium. Front Suspension: Marzocchi 50mm, 175mm travel. Rear: Aluminium swinging arm, Sachs monoshock 185mm travel. Brakes front: twin Brembo 300mm disks. Rear 272mm single disk. Wheels: Front 19", rear 17" with tubeless spoked rims.

DIMENSIONS: Weight: 215kg. 820mm seat height. (800 & 860 options) Wheelbase 1,544mm. Fuel 25 L

PERFORMANCE: Max. speed: 215 km/h. Consumption: 6.73 to 8.12 litres / 100 km. 0-60mph in 4.18secs.

PRICE: List price: €11,950, (Currently on offer at €10,500)

art

Cheers for that PBergin - strangely timely. If I was a superstitious guy now I'd say that was a sign!

The discounted price on that is good but it will be interesting to get a price with the basic add-ons added, eg centre-stand and panniers. They mention that the Tiger will be updated - as far as I know this is just an assumption everyone is making but, if true, it points to the Tiger probably being the best bargain as they try shift stock etc?

(Don't like the look of the KTM at all, think its a bit goofy or something)

pbergin

I hope to be in a similar suitation soon, Im selling my Aprilia Falco at the moment http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=313874 and Im thinking of getting a big trailie, but sadly not new. I also like the Yamaha tdm900, its a bit of an ugle brute but thats part of its charm and it is supposed to handle well.

Garibaldi

Fancy an R1150GS, pbergin? I just happen to be selling mine. (dons sheepskin coat)

I used to have a Falco myself, but recurring tendonitis has ensured that I'll be pretty much confined to big trailies for the rest of my biking days.

A new Capo Nord for €10,500?!? Where??

pbergin

Im not in a position to buy until I sell the falco, but I'll give you a shout when I sell it.
(giz a got of that sheep skin coat)
Are you sure you dont want a Falco again? you are not going to find a nicer one that mine, it has had a fortune spent on it.
I presume the capo's are for sale in Bikeworld at that price, arent they the only official dealer in Dublin? I wonder are they selling off stock of the older model? I heard they are selling a new mille (old model) for 9999.

Garibaldi

My Falco was pretty damn nice...nicer than yours, I suspect. Until some blind twat drove over it. Still, it could've been worse. At least I wasn't on it at the time.

Garibaldi

If its BikeWorld selling the CNs at that price, they must be 2001 stock.

pbergin

Garibaldi wrote:

My Falco was pretty damn nice...nicer than yours, I suspect.

Now now now, we both know thats just not true

Garibaldi

Mine was a red one. Need I say more? :cool:

art

Garibaldi wrote:

If its BikeWorld selling the CNs at that price, they must be 2001 stock.

I'm going to call into them on Saturday so if I see any 01 reg plates I'll let you know!

How do I be diplomatic and ask the sales guy, "Is that old crap you're selling off cheap"???

madrab

art wrote:

I'm going to call into them on Saturday so if I see any 01 reg plates I'll let you know!

How do I be diplomatic and ask the sales guy, "Is that old crap you're selling off cheap"???

how about "Oiy Dingbat, u selling me old sh1te that nobody wants?"

Garibaldi

Art: "I've checked with Aprilia, and they say they stopped manufacturing this model of CN 2 years ago. Are you flogging off old crap as new?"
BW: "Technically, no. They've never been registered, so they're brand new. We'll all just pretend that they haven't been sitting here rotting in the showroom for the past four years, ok."
Art: "That's quite the sense of humour you guys've got going there."
BW: "You're barred."

pbergin

Garibaldi wrote:

Mine was a red one. Need I say more? :cool:

Yup, you need to say alot more, coz mine is red too!! (see below)

Garibaldi wrote:

Art: "I've checked with Aprilia, and they say they stopped manufacturing this model of CN 2 years ago. Are you flogging off old crap as new?"
BW: "Technically, no. They've never been registered, so they're brand new. We'll all just pretend that they haven't been sitting here rotting in the showroom for the past four years, ok."
Art: "That's quite the sense of humour you guys've got going there."
BW: "You're barred."

Thats what I thought, if they dont sell them soon it will be really tough sell once a newer model takes over.




(sorry about hijacking the thread!)

madrab

pbergin wrote:

Thats what I thought, if they dont sell them soon it will be really tough sell once a newer model takes over.

or really cheap...wait no its bikeworld

LordSutch

Hi Art - The Tiger is the Dog's bollocks - I have an 04 model - cant complain, would give it 9/10 for touring and its a fast bugger also, and as for that Creamy Triple sound ...........................
Mind you Art, the New 06 model will come with an 1050i engine, instead of this years 955i, also the Aprillia Caponord is currently going for a thousand less than normal E(10.500) instead of E(11.500), so Art - its up to you, do you wait for the 06 Tiger with the New lage engine or do you go for the current Tiger? or go for the Caponord? I would wait for the 06 Tiger if I was you.

art

ArthurF wrote:

Hi Art - The Tiger is the Dog's bollocks - I have an 04 model - cant complain, would give it 9/10 for touring and its a fast bugger also, and as for that Creamy Triple sound ...........................
Mind you Art, the New 06 model will come with an 1050i engine, instead of this years 955i, also the Aprillia Caponord is currently going for a thousand less than normal E(10.500) instead of E(11.500), so Art - its up to you, do you wait for the 06 Tiger with the New lage engine or do you go for the current Tiger? or go for the Caponord? I would wait for the 06 Tiger if I was you.

Cheers for the advice Arthur.

I thought the Tiger 06 was already out? They have on their website that due to large demand for the 05 model they released the 06 version early - I think its been out a few months already? So unless its the 07 version that they plan to use the Sprint's 1050 engine in? If so I could still be waiting a year for that... Which is too long really.

I agree though about the sound of the Triple engine - the first time I heard it I thought of Spitfires roaring down a runway, great ****ing sound out of the thing!

Hotblack Desiato

WILKEL wrote:

I would not go near one for two reasons
1 - resale value will be rubbish

Why's that then? Will it be better or worse than the competition, and why?

and they are bringing out a new model soon (as far as i know) which will depress the resale value further.

Triumph already brought out the new model - they started selling the 2006 Tiger in 2005, because demand was so strong they sold out the entire 2005 production run by about May. Sounds to me like a pretty strong endorsement of the bike by the riding public - literally they can't get enough of 'em!

If there's a lot of demand for the new bike, you can be sure that's going to make resale values go up rather than down.

2. - not too sure about Triumph's relability - heard a few stories that you wont read in the patrotic British press.

What stories and where did you hear them? I wouldn't believe a word printed in the glossies or MCN anyway, they're more interested in keeping advertisers sweet than informing their readers.

Triumph have an excellent reputation for reliability, their engines in particular are considered very strong. I know this from talking to many Triumph owners. Have you ever ridden one, never mind owned one? If not, I think it's a bit harsh to just diss the bike on the basis of what you 'heard somewhere'.

I bought my first Triumph recently and even though it's a 1993 bike, the build quality and feeling of solidity is amazing, better than my previous Honda when it was brand new! Usually levers and switches feel wobbly after a few years - not on this bike even though it's done a fair mileage (nearly 40,000)

In my opinion (and the opinion of every Triumph owner I've spoken to) Triumphs are exceptionally well made motorcycles and I'd recommend them to anyone. They're very torquey and great fun to ride as well and the triple sounds gorgeous, better than a farty flat twin any day

I would get a GS1200 if you could strech to it

Ah, you've got your white-and-blue tinted goggles on, that explains everything

WILKEL

ninja900 wrote:

Why's that then? Will it be better or worse than the competition, and why?


Triumph already brought out the new model - they started selling the 2006 Tiger in 2005, because demand was so strong they sold out the entire 2005 production run by about May. Sounds to me like a pretty strong endorsement of the bike by the riding public - literally they can't get enough of 'em!

If there's a lot of demand for the new bike, you can be sure that's going to make resale values go up rather than down.


What stories and where did you hear them? I wouldn't believe a word printed in the glossies or MCN anyway, they're more interested in keeping advertisers sweet than informing their readers.

Triumph have an excellent reputation for reliability, their engines in particular are considered very strong. I know this from talking to many Triumph owners. Have you ever ridden one, never mind owned one? If not, I think it's a bit harsh to just diss the bike on the basis of what you 'heard somewhere'.

I bought my first Triumph recently and even though it's a 1993 bike, the build quality and feeling of solidity is amazing, better than my previous Honda when it was brand new! Usually levers and switches feel wobbly after a few years - not on this bike even though it's done a fair mileage (nearly 40,000)

In my opinion (and the opinion of every Triumph owner I've spoken to) Triumphs are exceptionally well made motorcycles and I'd recommend them to anyone. They're very torquey and great fun to ride as well and the triple sounds gorgeous, better than a farty flat twin any day



Ah, you've got your white-and-blue tinted goggles on, that explains everything

I will keep it simple - there is always huge demand here for BMW GS bikes - no way the same demand for trimuph tigers.
on the second point - maybe I was a bit harsh - but over the years I have heard some reliability stories on them but I stand corrected by someone that has more direct experience than me on this particular bike.
Thirdly - when I talked about the new model - I heard that they were lobbing in the 1050 engine (fromt the new ST) and a significant makeover on the rest of the bike - this is the new model I was on about not just the 06 bike.
and I do own a R1150GS and have white and blue tinted goggles on !!!!

Hotblack Desiato

WILKEL wrote:

I will keep it simple - there is always huge demand here for BMW GS bikes - no way the same demand for trimuph tigers.

Sure, BMW have a bigger market share than Triumph, but then they have a lot more official dealers in Ireland than Triumph do (afaik Bikeworst is the only one.) But that has no impact on resale values. It's not the absolute level of demand that matters - it's the balance of demand vs. supply.

GS's are extremely popular at the moment no doubt helped by those two eejits on the Wrong Way Round (or something tv show. Will the demand fall when the effect of all that publicity wears off? Maybe, maybe not.

A friend of mine was, for a long time, looking to import a very early 1990s GS, so he was keeping a good eye on the prices in MCN every week for about a year or so. As soon as that programme came out, the prices went up even on ten+ year old GSs. (He ended up going to Germany to get a 1990 GS airhead...) When lots of people want to get the new ones, some are disappointed (or can't wait) so they buy recent 2nd hand ones, which puts the price up, which has a knock on effect on all secondhand bikes in the market.

It seems obvious to me that if Triumph literally can't make enough new Tigers, then secondhand demand and prices are going to go up...

With resale values it's crystal ball gazing really. Maybe in 2 or 3 years the fashion will have changed and there'll be a glut of all the GS and Tiger owners looking to trade in? But given that they're both excellent all round bikes it's hard to see values falling too much, even then.

on the second point - maybe I was a bit harsh - but over the years I have heard some reliability stories on them but I stand corrected by someone that has more direct experience than me on this particular bike.

Hmmm I wonder are the old 70's Meriden Triumphs clouding the issue?

Thirdly - when I talked about the new model - I heard that they were lobbing in the 1050 engine (fromt the new ST) and a significant makeover on the rest of the bike - this is the new model I was on about not just the 06 bike.

AFAIK they're not putting that in the Tiger until 2007 at least - but it's possible they'll stick with the existing engine rather than having to detune the new one for use in the Tiger.

Garibaldi

One last quick aside to pbergin:
Man, that Falco is sweet! Almost the same as mine was (even down to the tyres), except mine didn't have the lowers, but it did have Ohlins suspension (to which I seem to be addicted).

All this talk about big trailies will see me up in Churchtown on a KTM950 by tomorrow morning. I can feel it in my bones.

that guy

There's a courier round Dublin using a triumph tiger - so they can't be that unreliable!

re TDM 900 - had one rented in majorca over the summer, very impressed with it. Not sports bike fast of course but nice handling, decent torque and very very comfortable - did 400 miles two up no bother in one day just blatting around the place (and the island is only about 70 miles long!! )

Krusty_Clown

ninja900 wrote:

Sure, BMW have a bigger market share than Triumph, but then they have a lot more official dealers in Ireland than Triumph do (afaik Bikeworst is the only one.)

They have 100% more dealerships in Ireland. That'd make two!

Hotblack Desiato

Two fully fledged BMW bike dealers, yeah, but in theory at least, can't you order a bike from any BMW car dealer? I remember hearing Maxwell Motors were doing this, and probably others as well.

art

The reduced price Caponords are definitely old stock by the way - they won't be getting in any new models for the foreseeable future. Definitely going for the Tiger so Bikeworld have Orange ones in stock now which are 2005 models though - I kind of like that Orange look so not sure whether to get one or wait for a 2006 model (2006s are no longer Orange) - the differences between the models seem minimal plus I don't see myself re-selling this one for a long time, assuming it all works well... Going to follow this up on Tuesday anyhow.