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Why do women have to wear Burkas?
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Who knows why they are forced to wear them, but we know its a beleif they hold strongly. Strong enough to kill for it, or at least let people die for it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stmreligious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dressthey tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islamthree policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
If anyone here wants to make the claim that these girls were wearing the head scarf by choice, when they were clearly forced to die for choosing not to wear it on this occasion, then I am afraid you are a liar of the highest order.0 -
If anyone here wants to make the claim that these girls were wearing the head scarf by choice, when they were clearly forced to die for choosing not to wear it on this occasion, then I am afraid you are a liar of the highest order.
Either that or you are a person who has abandoned their morals for their religion. Should it not work the other way?0 -
Of course he won't get his toothbrush because he will realise the symbolism of the toothbrush before he even goes for it!
Can't you understand that? Islam tries to deal with the problem of women being beaten by men all over the world by giving men steps to guide them when they become angry.
Islam is about guiding people, helping them to live a decent, honourable life. It does NOT permit the beating of a woman. It simply DOES NOT permit this.4:34 ".......As for those (women) from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."
Definition: "Scourge (verb)1: flog, whip2 a: to punish severely b: afflict c: to drive as if by blows of a whip d: chastise"
Please illustrate how this "DOES NOT" permit the beating of women.0 -
What, just because you don't like what this person is saying you request that they be censored? Hypocrite.[/size][/b]I seriously urge the mods to clamp down on this extremist, completely ridiculious view of Islam that Farrah is presenting- it is both distastful for those of us who have an interest and respect for Islam and also for the Muslims here who are having their religion slandered by with extremist opinions- is this really what you want people to think Islam is about?!?0 -
I think its very HONOURABLE for a woman to cover up and hide anything men might find stimulating, why should we walk around half dressed, with fake tans and makeup caked on in layers trying to please men, i mean who do they think they are to DESERVE for us to dress for them in such a way and why should they see us in all our glory when they mean NOTHING to us? My sis works for a private hospital and she comes home and tells us how over 80% of the male and female ENGLISH staff have affairs with each other and gloat about them they use cupboards and spare rooms - and the muslims there find it sick but the very people who have these affairs think the muslims are abnormal in not choosing to have affairs LOL. DISGUSTING what kind've morals do they have and they want us to integrate and behave like animals... NO THANKS
Why can't you accept that there is a middle ground- and quite a huge percentage of women who neither veil from head to toe OR walk around like slappers caked in make up? NEITHER extreme is beneficial to either the woman or the society she is in as complete veiling has anti-social traits because by covering a person's face, it is a barrier to communication and a lot of people I know find it outright frightening to be accosted by someone draped fully in black with eyes peeping out. Equally, scantily clad girls aren't a positive thing either and I too find it distasteful, but I don't think the answer is to make them Muslims. The answer is to allow them to build the confidence and mature so that they can see that they don't need to have it all hanging out to be beautiful.
If I worked somewhere that people went about gloating about their séxual exploits- whether married or not- I too would find it distasteful, which is why the vast majority of MATURE ADULTS don't do so. This isn't a Christian or a western problem; this is a people-being-complete-idiots problem! Then again, like an earlier poster, I too don't believe you're telling the truth. I mean, how would topics like these come up and how would it come about that they would say that they think the Muslims are abnormal for having affairs?!?! That's insane!
"Gee whiz, just got back from banging Dr Reilly's wife- phwoar, what a ride! Did her in the cupboard, so I did- only because my Missus was living it up in the spare room. Wow, these Muslims, they don't know what they're missing out on, what with the fornication and adultery and whatnot. Tis a blast."
You know what? If the Muslims on this board are happy to have a fellow Muslim and therefore an example of their religion in action going about preaching completely anti-western propaganda and making completely unreasonable and unbelievably extremist comments, be my guest, but it's people like her that give Islam a bad name.What, just because you don't like what this person is saying you request that they be censored? Hypocrite.0 -
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I came across this speech the other day given by a young British muslim, called Salma Yaqoob.I thought she was excellent in explaining why wearing the hijab/burka is important to her and muslim women,the bits in bold I particulalry liked:
For many Muslim women wearing the hijab is an expression of Islamic notions of women’s empowerment. ‘Hijab’ actually is a whole concept relating to the interaction of men and women, not just an item of clothing to cover the head or body. The hijab is not about the denial of female (or male) sexuality. Quite the opposite. I think sexual attraction between men and women is part of human nature and natural. The concept of Hijab actually denotes a code of behaviour between the sexes that both acknowledges that fact and encourages a mutually respectful interaction between men and women. It flows from the emphasis on marriage in Islam – the Quran describes a husband and wife as each others ‘garments’ – giving each other intimacy, warmth and protection. The idea of hijab is to maintain the exclusivity of that relationship, such that the degree of physical intimacy and exposure is limited in all other interactions between men and women. In this way the aim of hijab is to de-emphasise sexuality in public interactions, whilst encouraging sexuality in private ones.
It is important to remember that whilst the hijab has recently been associated exclusively with Islam, the idea of modest attire for men and women is referred to in the Judeo-Christian tradition in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible as well as many other religious and cultural traditions (e.g. Sikhism and Rastafarianism). In many parts of the world, from villages in Italy to Indian suburbs women cover themselves in similar ways that Muslim women do.
For many Muslim women wearing the Hijab marks a rejection of a world where women have to endure objectification as sex objects. It helps them to enjoy a sense of their own (special) privacy and personhood. For me, the wearing of the hijab denotes that as a woman I expect to be treated as an equal in terms of my intellect and personality and my appearance is relevant only to the degree that I want it to be, when I want it to be.
Wearing the hijab can also be seen as a challenge to the power of corporations and advertising. The French philosopher Alain Badiou, responding to the banning of hijab in French schools makes the point that the headscarf law is a pure capitalist law in that it orders femininity to be exposed. He suggests that by banning all reserve women are brought into the market paradigm and are forced to display their bodies as merchandise. He further asks the question: ‘Is it not even more mean and petty for a woman at school to act as a sandwich board for a corporation than as a follower of God?’
Indeed it is true that while the Western feminist movement campaigned over many years for the right of women to be uncovered in public this ‘right’ has quickly been appropriated by the forces of capitalism and consumerism. So much so that we are at a point in time where much unhappiness, depression, eating disorders etc are directly attributable to the pressures on women to be seen to be sexually attractive. Clearly such expectations and consequences are oppressive to women. Prevailing cultural norms mean that young girls are robbed of their childhood as their clothes reflect and emphasise female sexuality; and older women are made to feel irrelevant (or relevant to the extent that they can maintain the appearance of being younger).
Whilst I passionately defend my right to wear the hijab and urge solidarity on this issue, I think it is a shame that the identity of Muslim women has been reduced to simply the wearing of the hijab – by some Muslims as well as non-Muslims. It would be unfortunate if a Muslim woman was only viewed in terms of whether she wore a hijab – by her brothers and sisters in faith who may not regard her as ‘highly’ if she doesn’t, or non-Muslims who may regard her as less worthy if she does. Ultimately it is about her personal relationship with God, and not anyone else’s business! Whilst we can point out the benefits or otherwise (whichever view you hold on the issue of hijab), coercion or enforcement form either side is not the answer.0 -
Either that or you are a person who has abandoned their morals for their religion. Should it not work the other way?
That's EXACTLY it. People completely lose sight of their natural moralistic instincts (which are obviously there for a reason) just in order to comply with a religion. Ridiculious.0 -
It would be unfortunate if a Muslim woman was only viewed in terms of whether she wore a hijab – by her brothers and sisters in faith who may not regard her as ‘highly’ if she doesn’t, or non-Muslims who may regard her as less worthy if she does. Ultimately it is about her personal relationship with God, and not anyone else’s business!
Although i agree with pretty much everything Panda / salma has said i would like to point out that FIRSTLY we wear what we wear because of OUR RELIGION, as Allah (our creator) has declared it. Wearing the hijab or jilbab (black cloak) is actually a noble thing to do so ofcourse it will be regarded highly.
I know of certain people who will only marry men with beards (i am one) and women who wear the burka because they are closer to Allah swt, having said that it HAS to be a COMPLETE PACKAGE, ie the person should be knowledgable on hadith, quran, sharia. It will not be the same otherwise as they would be fulfilling only some of their obligations or recommendations. Alot of young muslims marry someone ONLY if their aqeedah is the same, ie not just sunni or shia BUT following a certain school of thought etc, being muslim is just not good enough these days!. Our parents generation wernt bothered about these things, to them islam was practiced in the home and they did not understand the quran as they read it in arabic parrot fashion, young people want to know the meanings and i see many young people going to tajweed and tafseer classes -these were only used by imams and other very religous ppl in our parents generations, but NOW we want to know. We want the best possible chances to get the best out of this life so there are no regrets when we die. We wont put up with our parents telling us how to live our lives anymore the hard grind working 9-5 day in day out, coming home going to sleep just to work the next day, is this what life is about? is this happiness ? not for me and many other muslims, i only find happiness and peace and serenity when i read the quran or pray, and if it wasnt for the money (and i was self sufficient and did not rely on the taxpayers money) i would leave my job in the blink of an eye and spend most of the day reading quran and purifying my heart and giving my soul the nourishment it so needs.
Anyway i am going off topic , i just wanted to say piety (and that includes wearing hijab / burka) plays a very imp part in our lives. Some people marry for beauty, wealth, status but in islam the best reason to marry someone is piety as deen (religion) is what we will be judged on in the hereafter and we will be recompensed for our adherence. A devoutly religous person would only want the same so they have the same outlook on life and can encourage each other to attain the highest garden (jannah al firdaus) that we are all striving for.
Finally i dont have too much time to spend on forums these days as i am busy gaining browny points for the rainy day lol insha'Allah so i just wanted to say if i have hurt anyone (within reason) with what ive said pls forgive me. All praise is due to Allah who has guided me from his mercy even though there was a time I used to hate islam with passion (despite the fact i was born a muslim). Truely Allah guides whom he wills to a straight path and i bear witness theres no God except Allah and mohammed is his messenger.
43. And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury; beneath them will be rivers flowing; and they shall say: "Praise be to Allah Who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth that the apostles of our Lord brought unto us." And they Shall hear the cry: "Behold! the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors for your deeds (of righteousness)." Surah: 6. al-a`raf0 -
This isnt strictly related to the burka but I didnt want to start another thread as Its a small issue relating to women and Islam.
I was reading an article in The Health supplement in The Times today on 'The Muslim way of Parenting'. One thing in particular struck me. Muslim men are allowed to marry certain non-Muslim women such as Christians and Jews,as long as they are not atheists. Muslim women on the other hand are not allowed marry a non-muslim.
Can someone please explain to me why this is so?0 -
Hi Panda
Im not a scholar but i got this from islamonline which is a website that gives fatwas (rulings) on all sorts of matters. Someone asked a question and the shaykh (scholar) replied, this is an excerpt from it:-
As far as the interfaith marriages are concerned, Islam does not encourage them. The general rule of Islam is that Muslims should marry Muslims. A Muslim male or female should not marry a non-Muslim male or female. Allah Almighty says: “ Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth thus His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.” (Al-Baqarah: 221)
The only exception is given to Muslim men who are allowed to marry the girls from among the People of the Book. Allah Almighty says: “This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.” (Al-Ma’dah: 5)
For the satisfaction of your heart, let me explain why Muslim men are allowed to marry women from among the People of the Book and why Muslim women are not allowed to do so.
First of all, it is not an honor or a privilege to marry a non-Muslim. It is a burden and a big responsibility. It is better to abstain from such marriages. Muslim men who are living in non-Muslim countries in particular should not marry non-Muslim women. However, man being the head of his household is more capable to handle the needs and problems of his non-Muslim (Christian or Jewish) wife. Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus, peace and blessings be upon them all, were Prophets of Allah and so they give them full honor and respect.
Jews and Christians do not consider Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, as the Prophet of Allah. Thus they are unable to give the same respect and honor to him and to his followers. A Jewish or Christian woman with a Muslim husband will be in a much better position than a Muslim woman with a Jewish or a Christian husband. Even then, there are many non-Muslim women who married outside their faith say that they wish their religion too had forbidden them, because they know how difficult and hard it is to be the wife of a husband who has a different faith.
A Muslim woman should know that Allah has really honored her and made it easy for her by not allowing her to marry a non-Muslim man.
This is from me :-
Although this next bit is prob a little hard to digest, most women want a man to be the provider (hunter gatherer ph.) and generally speaking the provider is the head of the household - this doesn't mean he takes control of everything but that he is a shephard that guards and protects and provides for his flock. In islam a man is a shephard and he will be held accountable on the day of judgement as to how he looked after his flock. If his foundations are not 'correct' so to speak how can he look after and protect his family in the manner advised by the creator? The ultimate goal in islam is to attain the garden (heaven) and save oneself and ones family from the fire (hell) and a strong foundation can make all the difference.
PS the times is perhaps not the best source to go by when it comes to learning about islam (from what ive read they really portray a derogatory image of the religion). If you have sky tv you could ask a scholar on channel 'islam channel' 813 everynight, its live and you can ask anything you want.0 -
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Serious question to the last poster; why does a fatwa on a random web site have any validity?
P.0 -
The word fatwa strictly means "response" - a fatwa is a response given by a qualified person ( a mufti), who sets out and explains the provisions of Sharia in respect to a specific question put by an individual or a group of people. Muftis became qualified by extensive study of Sharia, and they were not (until relatively recently) public officials. Their judgements should be regarded as opinions, and the people receiving the fatwa may seek out other muftis and obtain other opinions. Of course, if there is consensus among several muftis, then this lends greater authority to the opinion being expressed. But, as Mohammad Hashim Kamali notes in Shari'ah Law: An Introduction (Oneworld Publications: 2008, p. 175), "Fatwa that is based on the interpretation and personal opinion of the mufti is not binding on anyone. This is the main difference between fatwa and a judicial ruling (qada)."
In recent years, particularly in Muslim countries but also in parts of the world with Muslim minorities, the issuing of fatwas has become more formalised, and in some cases the state has become involved (e.g. Malaysia). There is now an organisation, the European Council for Fatwa and Research, based in Dublin, which issues fatwas. The fatwas of distinguished scholars, and organisations like ECFR, are collected together and increasingly can be accessed on the internet.
The website IslamOnline.net often reproduces extracts of fatwas issued by respected scholars. To a great extent, the authority of a fatwa is a function of the authority of the scholar issuing it. The material quoted by farrakh52 is attributed on IslamOnline.net to Dr Muzammil Siddiqui, president of the Fiqh Council of North America, which is another scholarly organisation that issues fatwas.
By the way, I consider IslamOnline.net to be one of the more reliable and informative Muslim websites.0 -
Why muslims respect the 'jewish and christian' prophets....
Qur'an 4:163-165
163 Lo! We inspire thee (Muhammad) as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as we imparted unto David the Psalms;
164 And messengers We have mentioned unto thee before and messengers We have not mentioned unto thee; and Allah spake directly unto Moses;
165 Messengers of good cheer and off warning, in order that mankind might have no argument against Allah after the messengers. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.Qur'an 6:84-86
84 And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good.
85 And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous.
86 And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot. Each one of them did We prefer above (Our) creatures
Qur'an 21:85-88
85 And (mention) Ishmael, and Idris (Enoch), and Dhul-Kifl (Ezekiel). All were of the steadfast.
86 And We brought them in unto Our mercy. Lo! they are among the righteous.
87 And (mention) Dhun Nun (Jonah), when he went off in anger and deemed that We had no power over him, but he cried out in the darkness, saying: There is no God save Thee. Be Thou glorified! I have been a wrong-doer.
88 Then We heard his prayer and saved him from the anguish. Thus We save believers.
133 Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me? They said: We shall worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One God, and unto Him we have surrendered.
"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) Why do ye dispute about Abraham, while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Have ye then no understanding? Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a Muslim (submitter to Allah alone) and he joined none in worship with Allah."
These prophets were not Jews or Christians, as the name "Jews" came after Judah (son of Jacob) and the name "Christians" came long after Jesus had left! How can someone who believes in these religions be a shephard over his flock and guide them 'correctly' if his foundation is 'inconsistent' with the basic tenets of the islamic faith?. Its like a blind man leading the one who can see ....and we can imagine the outcome of this.
136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.0 -
First of all, it is not an honor or a privilege to marry a non-Muslim. It is a burden and a big responsibility. It is better to abstain from such marriages. Muslim men who are living in non-Muslim countries in particular should not marry non-Muslim women. However, man being the head of his household is more capable to handle the needs and problems of his non-Muslim (Christian or Jewish) wife. Muslims believe that Moses and Jesus, peace and blessings be upon them all, were Prophets of Allah and so they give them full honor and respect.
In what way is a man more capable to handle the needs and problems more than a woman? Why would being expected to be the leader of a household make you more capable in dealing with these problems?A Jewish or Christian woman with a Muslim husband will be in a much better position than a Muslim woman with a Jewish or a Christian husband.
Why?A Muslim woman should know that Allah has really honored her and made it easy for her by not allowing her to marry a non-Muslim man.
Does this not seem very condescending to everyone else? How can you really honor someone by not allowing them from doing something? Surely, it would show more honour for Allah to stop a muslim woman from desiring a non-muslim man, prevent her from falling in love with one?Although this next bit is prob a little hard to digest, most women want a man to be the provider (hunter gatherer ph.) and generally speaking the provider is the head of the household - this doesn't mean he takes control of everything but that he is a shephard that guards and protects and provides for his flock. In islam a man is a shephard and he will be held accountable on the day of judgement as to how he looked after his flock. If his foundations are not 'correct' so to speak how can he look after and protect his family in the manner advised by the creator? The ultimate goal in islam is to attain the garden (heaven) and save oneself and ones family from the fire (hell) and a strong foundation can make all the difference.
It seems like all you're saying here is that its ok for a muslim man to be married to a non muslim because as a man he will have a better chance in converting the wife, and making sure the kids end up muslim0 -
First of all, it is to be stressed that Islam does not encourage the interfaith marriages. The general rule of Islam is that Muslims should marry Muslims. A Muslim male or female should not marry a non-Muslim male or female. The only exception is given to Muslim men who are allowed to marry the chaste girls from among the People of the Book.
However, a Muslim woman is much better suited to a Muslim man than a woman of Christian or Jewish faith, regardless of her merits. This is because marriage is not based on fulfilling one’s sexual desires; rather, it is an institution. It aims to establish a home on the bases of tranquility, faith and Islamic morals. To fulfill this task, the whole family must apply Allah’s course and try to convey His message.
Islam made it impermissible for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim with aim of keeping her away from things that may jeopardize her faith. In fact, Islam aims at protecting the deen (religion). A Muslim woman will not feel that her religion is secure while being with a Jewish or a Christian husband especially as the majority of the People of the Book do not show due respect/ believe in the final Prophet, Muhammad (pbuh).
Allah Almighty says: "And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed. Say: Lo! The guidance of Allah (Himself) is Guidance. And if thou shouldst follow their desires after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, then wouldst thou have from Allah no protecting friend nor helper."(Al-Baqarah: 120)In what way is a man more capable to handle the needs and problems more than a woman? Why would being expected to be the leader of a household make you more capable in dealing with these problems?
All 3 religions make the husband head of the house in that he has to protect, maintain and look after his wife and children so wether he is willing to or not that is a right his family has got over him (in these religions). He would probably be more capable because in all 3 religions the wife obeys or listens to the husband. I have actually seen this in non religous western households too. My freinds obey pretty much everything thier husbands and even their boyfreinds say - i was quite shocked as their muslim counterparts get a lot of stick if they do the same, i have seen them wash, cook, clean all day long, it was actually an eye opener to say the least!. In islam if a wife works she doesnt have to pay anything towards the running of the household and gets to spend her money on whatever she likes, some scholars believe that the husband has to provide her with 'cooked food' so she doesnt have to cook either - having said that most women (muslim and non-muslim) choose to cook as they're home looking after the kids etc.
Given the fact that the husband is generally the head of the household in all 3 religions and even in secular households, it's not far-fetched for a non-Muslim husband to prevent his Muslim wife from performing some Islamic rituals which may seem a nuisance to him, for example fasting, or even refraining from marital relations during the fast.
As for why Islam allows a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman, it's clear that every Muslim believes in Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) and he holds all the Prophets of Allah in high esteem. Thus a Muslim finds less harm in his wife being a Christian or a Jew, for the spirit of tolerance Islam holds for the people of the book (jews and christians) is ingrained in him.
The Muslim believes that both Judaism and Christianity originated in divine revelation, although later distortions were introduced into them. He also believes that God revealed the Tawrah (torah) to Moses and the Injeel (bible) to Jesus, and that both Moses and Jesus (peace be on them) were among the Messengers of Allah who were distinguished by their steadfast determination. Accordingly, the Christian or Jewish wife of a Muslim lives under the protection of a man who respects the basic tenets of her faith, her Scripture, and her Prophets, while in contrast to this the Jew or Christian recognizes neither the Divine origin of Islam, its Book, or its Prophet (peace be on him). He will not understand the basic tenets of his wifes religion or her rights, on the other hand the muslim husband believes in all of Allahs revelations and will understand why the jews and Christians do what they do. Moreover, marriage is an institution for elevating our levels of having a good Islamic life. Pleasing Allah is our number one goal. If a woman is married to a non-Muslim, what hope will she have of this?
How then could a Muslim woman live with such a man, while her religion requires of her the observance of certain worships, duties, and obligations, as well as certain prohibitions compared to the other 2 religions?. It would be impossible for the Muslim woman to retain her respect for her beliefs as well as to practice her religion properly if she were opposed in this regard by the head of the house.Does this not seem very condescending to everyone else? How can you really honor someone by not allowing them from doing something? Surely, it would show more honour for Allah to stop a muslim woman from desiring a non-muslim man, prevent her from falling in love with one?
Allah created love and lust and all the other desires to test us, infact this whole world is a test. There are people who think they are in love and then realise they are not after a few years of marriage, there are those who cant control their nafs (desires) and sleep around and catch all sorts of std's, can we blame Allah for our basic instincts and our lack of judgement and mistakes?
We have to remember that life is a test and in this test we have to control our nafs (desires) and make informed decisions. If you follow islam properly (and are a practising muslim) you will not fall in love with the opposite sex so easily because islam stops potentially bad things (like drinking, gambling) at the root...including free mixing between the sexes. Men and women are not allowed to mingle freely unless its to do with work or education (and strictly that), they cannot socialise together. Infact they are not supposed to even look at each other...
“Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that will make greater purity for them. And Allah is well acquainted with what they do.” (Surah Noor)
"And, say to the believing women, that they should cast down their gaze and guard their modesty, that they should not display their ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof, that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands... (Surah Noor-V.31)
"Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring, and stored up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and well-tilled land. That is the comfort of the life of the world. But with Allah is a more excellent abode"
” Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god, and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? And they say: There is naught but our life of the world; we die and we live, and naught destroyeth us save time; when they have no knowledge whatsoever of (all) that; they do but guess” [45:22
“Verily! We have made that which is on earth as an adoration for it (the earth) in order that We may test them (mankind) as to which of them is better in deeds."[Qur'an 18:7][/FONT][/B]It seems like all you're saying here is that its ok for a muslim man to be married to a non muslim because as a man he will have a better chance in converting the wife, and making sure the kids end up muslim
Yes its very important that children are brought up within islam in (as it would be in any religion?), the object of life is to attain the garden and to be saved from the fire. Allah tells us to save not just ourselves but our families from hell
"O ye who believe! save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who flinch not (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded." [66:6]
“Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception”
Why would any parent wish his child be taken to hell by letting him/her be a non-believer? it doesnt make any sence. Also towards the end it sounded like you dont think muslim children are something to be proud off, to be honest i am sometimes embarrassed at how some westerners treat their parents, leaving them in old peoples homes just when are at their most vulnerable state, not giving them their rights etc - but this will be another whole topic!. Earlier panda said something about what the times said about how muslims raise their children and i wanted to say that islam (and the quran and hadith) tells us how to raise our children and how to look after our elderly parents. This is the advice luqman gave to his son in the quran which practising muslim parents should instill into their children as an example.
"O my son! Join not in worship (others) with Allah: for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing And we have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years Twain was his weaning, Show gratitude to me and to thy parents: to me is (thy final) goal, but if they strive to make thee join in worship with me things of which thou hast no knowledge, obey them not; yet bear them company in this life with justice (and consideration), and follow the way of those who turn to me (in love): in the end the return of you all is to me, and I will tell you the truth (and meaning) of all that ye did."
“ My son! (Said Luqman) “ If there be (but) the weight of a mustard – seed and it were (hidden) in a rock, or (anywhere) in the heavens or on earth, Allah will bring it forth: for Allah understands the finest mysteries, (and) is well – acquainted (with them).
“ O my son! Establish regular prayer, enjoin what is just, and forbid what is wrong: And bear with patient constancy whatever betide thee; for this is firmness (of purpose) in (the conduct of) affairs, “ And swell not thy cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loveth not any arrogant boaster..». ](Qur’an) CH. XXXI: 13 - 19]
Perhaps next time the times can focus on how westerners look after their elders or even thier own children and then perhaps in the future we wont have to pay so many millions into combatting the social ills that are so common in the west incl drug rehab, teenage pregnancies, abortions, substance abuse, binge drinking, stds, anti-social behaviour, crime etc.0 -
Their judgements should be regarded as opinions, and the people receiving the fatwa may seek out other muftis and obtain other opinions.
Doesn't this lead to Muslims simply following the advice of muftis who fit in with their own prejudices? Sort of a la carte Islam?There is now an organisation, the European Council for Fatwa and Research, based in Dublin, which issues fatwas..
Where does this council derive its authority from? According to Wikipedia, it's a self-selected body. It's leader is Yusuf_al-Qaradawi, who is prominent in the Muslim Brotherhood and banned from entering the UK.
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However, a Muslim woman is much better suited to a Muslim man than a woman of Christian or Jewish faith, regardless of her merits. This is because marriage is not based on fulfilling one’s sexual desires; rather, it is an institution. It aims to establish a home on the bases of tranquility, faith and Islamic morals. To fulfill this task, the whole family must apply Allah’s course and try to convey His message.
What makes you think that Christian and Jewiish marriages are based on fulfilling sexual desires?Islam made it impermissible for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim with aim of keeping her away from things that may jeopardize her faith. In fact, Islam aims at protecting the deen (religion). A Muslim woman will not feel that her religion is secure while being with a Jewish or a Christian husband especially as the majority of the People of the Book do not show due respect/ believe in the final Prophet, Muhammad (pbuh).
Wont a muslim man feel the same in a relationship with a non muslim woman? Or are muslim men not supposed to be considerate of the feelings of their partner?All 3 religions make the husband head of the house in that he has to protect, maintain and look after his wife and children so wether he is willing to or not that is a right his family has got over him (in these religions). He would probably be more capable because in all 3 religions the wife obeys or listens to the husband. I have actually seen this in non religous western households too. My freinds obey pretty much everything thier husbands and even their boyfreinds say - i was quite shocked as their muslim counterparts get a lot of stick if they do the same, i have seen them wash, cook, clean all day long, it was actually an eye opener to say the least!. In islam if a wife works she doesnt have to pay anything towards the running of the household and gets to spend her money on whatever she likes, some scholars believe that the husband has to provide her with 'cooked food' so she doesnt have to cook either - having said that most women (muslim and non-muslim) choose to cook as they're home looking after the kids etc.
Given the fact that the husband is generally the head of the household in all 3 religions and even in secular households, it's not far-fetched for a non-Muslim husband to prevent his Muslim wife from performing some Islamic rituals which may seem a nuisance to him, for example fasting, or even refraining from marital relations during the fast.
I dont know how many households you have actually been in, but I've rarley seen any where the woman is in complete obedience to the man. It just doesn't make for a balanced home. You simply cannot have a healthy relationship where one party looks down on the other, there has to be mutual respect.As for why Islam allows a Muslim man to marry a Christian or Jewish woman, it's clear that every Muslim believes in Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them) and he holds all the Prophets of Allah in high esteem. Thus a Muslim finds less harm in his wife being a Christian or a Jew, for the spirit of tolerance Islam holds for the people of the book (jews and christians) is ingrained in him.
Its also ingrained in the muslim female, is it not? Seems like bit of a moot point.The Muslim believes that both Judaism and Christianity originated in divine revelation, although later distortions were introduced into them. He also believes that God revealed the Tawrah (torah) to Moses and the Injeel (bible) to Jesus, and that both Moses and Jesus (peace be on them) were among the Messengers of Allah who were distinguished by their steadfast determination. Accordingly, the Christian or Jewish wife of a Muslim lives under the protection of a man who respects the basic tenets of her faith, her Scripture, and her Prophets, while in contrast to this the Jew or Christian recognizes neither the Divine origin of Islam, its Book, or its Prophet (peace be on him). He will not understand the basic tenets of his wifes religion or her rights, on the other hand the muslim husband believes in all of Allahs revelations and will understand why the jews and Christians do what they do. Moreover, marriage is an institution for elevating our levels of having a good Islamic life. Pleasing Allah is our number one goal. If a woman is married to a non-Muslim, what hope will she have of this?
How then could a Muslim woman live with such a man, while her religion requires of her the observance of certain worships, duties, and obligations, as well as certain prohibitions compared to the other 2 religions?. It would be impossible for the Muslim woman to retain her respect for her beliefs as well as to practice her religion properly if she were opposed in this regard by the head of the house.Allah created love and lust and all the other desires to test us, infact this whole world is a test. There are people who think they are in love and then realise they are not after a few years of marriage, there are those who cant control their nafs (desires) and sleep around and catch all sorts of std's, can we blame Allah for our basic instincts and our lack of judgement and mistakes?
Who gave you your basic instincts?We have to remember that life is a test and in this test we have to control our nafs (desires) and make informed decisions. If you follow islam properly (and are a practising muslim) you will not fall in love with the opposite sex so easily because islam stops potentially bad things (like drinking, gambling) at the root...including free mixing between the sexes. Men and women are not allowed to mingle freely unless its to do with work or education (and strictly that), they cannot socialise together. Infact they are not supposed to even look at each other...
But by not allowing people to come into contact with temptations you are preventing them from learning to control their nafs, because you are doing it for them. If life is a test and we pass it by controlling our desires, then we need top actually experience those desires in order to control them. Someone who is born in a country where it is impossible for him to drink, take drugs, freely mingle with the opposite sex will hardly get any browny points for never actually doing these things.Yes its very important that children are brought up within islam in (as it would be in any religion?), the object of life is to attain the garden and to be saved from the fire. Allah tells us to save not just ourselves but our families from hell
Why would any parent wish his child be taken to hell by letting him/her be a non-believer? it doesnt make any sence.
It makes perfect sense. Life, as you said, is a test and to pass it you must control your basic instincts and the desire to protect your children is the most basic instinct their is.Also towards the end it sounded like you dont think muslim children are something to be proud off, to be honest i am sometimes embarrassed at how some westerners treat their parents, leaving them in old peoples homes just when are at their most vulnerable state, not giving them their rights etc - but this will be another whole topic!. Earlier panda said something about what the times said about how muslims raise their children and i wanted to say that islam (and the quran and hadith) tells us how to raise our children and how to look after our elderly parents. This is the advice luqman gave to his son in the quran which practising muslim parents should instill into their children as an example.
Not only do I think that "muslim children" aren't to be proud of, but I think that "christian children" and "jewish children" or any ""insert religion here" children" arent to be proud of. Children cant make fully informed decisions on what to eat for breakfast, never mind what religion to be. Bringing up a child as a member of any religion is just indoctrination of someone elses beliefs, how many people are members of some religion purely by the geographical fluke of where they are born?. I'm all for taking care of our elderly and raising our children to be good people, and these are things that can be accomplished by parents of any religion, but no-one should make the decision for their kids as to what religion they are, no-one should be a member of any relgion until they are old enough to make the decision fully informed.Perhaps next time the times can focus on how westerners look after their elders or even thier own children and then perhaps in the future we wont have to pay so many millions into combatting the social ills that are so common in the west incl drug rehab, teenage pregnancies, abortions, substance abuse, binge drinking, stds, anti-social behaviour, crime etc.
Stds and drug abuse are pretty common in non-western countries too:
From Islam-Online:
And an Article by Dr. Shahid Athar from Islamawareness:"Indonesia has one of the fastest growing epidemics in the world," Elizabeth Pisani, an epidemiologist with Aksi Stop AIDS, an AIDS prevention and care group, was quoted by Agence France-Presse (AFP) as saying.In Malaysia, the country now has around 57,000 reported cases of HIV/AIDS compared to 54,000 as of June this year.
But the real number of could easily be more than double the official figure, as many fail to report their condition for fear of stigma or discrimination in conservative mainly-Muslim Malaysia.[SIZE=-1]In Pakistan the first known case of heroin addiction was recorded in 1980. In 1981, there were only 25 cases recorded. By 1986 there were half a million cases. Now it is estimated that there are between 1-1.5 million cases in a population of 95 million.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]The rate of growth of narcotic addiction in Pakistan is higher than that of USA. In addition to heroin addicts, there are about 1 million opium and hashish users, and 300,000 tranquillizer abusers. The actual number of alcoholics is difficult to determine, since they usually don't seek treatment. There are only 26 rehabilitation centers and 10,000 trained social workers.[/SIZE]0 -
Doesn't this lead to Muslims simply following the advice of muftis who fit in with their own prejudices? Sort of a la carte Islam?
Yes, this possibility certainly exists. It's been suggested that one of the weaknesses of Islamic Banking and Finance is that there are very few scholars around the world who have the knowledge both of fiqh al mu'amalat (jurisprudence relating to secular transactions) and modern banking. It is possible that those proposing some novel Islamic financial structure may approach several scholars in the hope that at least one of them will consider the proposed transaction to be Shari'ah-compliant.Where does this council [the European Council for Fatwa and Research] derive its authority from? According to Wikipedia, it's a self-selected body. It's leader is Yusuf_al-Qaradawi, who is prominent in the Muslim Brotherhood and banned from entering the UK.
The bodies that issue fatwas in the West tend to be self-appointed, and their authority comes from the reputation of their members. In some Muslim-majority countries, there are state-sponsored bodies responsible for issuing fatwas.
Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is indeed the head of ECFR. He's a strange character, with some very distasteful (at least to me) views on issues such as the treatment of women, homosexuality, and suicide bombing. At the same time, he is comparatively liberal on issues relating to arts and music. Within his more technical specialisms, his book Fiqh Al-Zakat (which is available on-line in English translation) is regarded as one of the most thorough and authoritative modern analyses of zakat (the annual wealth levy, which is one of the five "Pillars of Islam").0 -
I was reading an article in The Health supplement in The Times today on 'The Muslim way of Parenting'. One thing in particular struck me. Muslim men are allowed to marry certain non-Muslim women such as Christians and Jews,as long as they are not atheists. Muslim women on the other hand are not allowed marry a non-muslim.
Haven't read the Quran but I think its pretty obvious the angel who spoke to Mohammed realised that men generally decide what religion the children will be.
Plus the cultural "them foreigners will take our jobs and women"0 -
On the subject of Islamic marriages, how exactly do Muslims get married when people of the opposite sex aren't allowed to socialise or look at eachother? Just a little curious, as it seems the only possible chance to actually marry someone is through an arranged marriage?0
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Arranged marriages are misunderstood in the West. There are actually a number of different types of arranged marriages (from the Hindu type of not seeing one another to the moderate type of seeing each other, getting to know each other and meeting a number of times). The whole idea of marriage is to see if two people are compatible. Where you meet your future wife (whether drunk in a bar or coincidentally on a train, office or plane, etc.) is irrelevant; the main thing is to find out honestly what the person is really like. That's why in Islam, it's good to do some background research (by asking his/her friends, siblings, relatives, etc.) The prophet (p) said it is very important that the two who intend to get married must actually see each other; then talk (discuss certain things & see if it will work out). I think most western marriages (especially in Hollywood/celebrities) are based on Lust - that's why they don't last. Look at most Islamic marriages and see how they last (with true love evolving as the family & relationship grows). I think you have to actually ask in person about this issue (as many other issues in Islam) - simply asking on a forum will not do justice to the answer...On the subject of Islamic marriages, how exactly do Muslims get married when people of the opposite sex aren't allowed to socialise or look at each other? Just a little curious, as it seems the only possible chance to actually marry someone is through an arranged marriage?0 -
The prophet (p) said it is very important that the two who intend to get married must actually see each other; then talk (discuss certain things & see if it will work out). I think most western marriages (especially in Hollywood/celebrities) are based on Lust - that's why they don't last.
Aha, but maybe I didn't make myself clear, if Muslims of the opposite sex are not supposed to mix socially, how do they speak to eachother or get to know eachother well enough to know this is who they should marry? And what about those who don't have Muslim parents to introduce them to potential partners without talking to those of the opposite sex and it being haram?
I wouldn't go as far to say that 'most western marriages' are based on lust- like most generalisations, its simply not true. Sure, relationships may begin from lust, but I don't personally know any married couple who got married simply because they thought the other person was sexy and didn't take into account their personality or how compatible they were.0 -
I think most western marriages (especially in Hollywood/celebrities) are based on Lust -
Yes, that's right, most of us Westerners are Hollywood celebrities.
:rolleyes:
Who, of the following 2 people, do you think is most motivated by lust to marry?
(a) A person who can freely mix and, if necessary, have sex with members of the opposite sex, who has met someone they liked and settled down into a long-term relationship
(b) A person who cannot mix freely with the opposite sex, and whose main opportunity to have sex is to marry.
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sorry about the confusions ... it looks like I really ticked people off with my stereotypical comments. I suppose now you know how most Muslims feel about teh stereotypical subjects constantly coming up!Yes, that's right, most of us Westerners are Hollywood celebrities.
I meant Hollywood/celebrity types mainly and youngsters who do just go out with a girl (having sex with her mainly for her looks); and maybe, maybe ending up with her for a long-term relationship.
Again sorry if there was some misunderstanding, but in Islam, if you see somebody you like, you try to get to know him/her through his/her friends; or else a friend might recommend somebody and you meet; or else a work colleague, student, parent, etc., might like your character and recommend you to somebody. In the end how two people meet, it could be a number of things that clicks the relationship into place (beauty, religion, family, personality); Every culture has it's own methods of relationship/marriage, and in fact every country has it's own lifestyle about how people meet. Go with whatever method you're comfortable with, as long as you don't take advantage of somebody (or angering their family, etc.)Answer one question for me
(b) A person who cannot mix freely with the opposite sex, and whose main opportunity to have sex is to marry.
I'd like to ask you a question: How many people in schools, college, work, pub would initiate a relationship with somebody missing an eye, limb or seriously scarred?? (a very small percentage) -- In Islam, It's for Allah's sake you marry (that's why, if you went to Islamic countries you will see that a beautiful man/woman will sometimes be with a needy/handycapped person to help family, etc. and to get reward mainly. I know I may sound a bit harsh but that's the reality.0 -
I meant Hollywood/celebrity types mainly and youngsters who do just go out with a girl (having sex with her mainly for her looks); and maybe, maybe ending up with her for a long-term relationship.
So I'm confused. You originally said "I think most western marriages [...] are based on Lust". Indicated that it's lust and nothing else. Are you backtracking on this or do you still claim it is true?but in Islam, if you see somebody you like, you try to get to know him/her through his/her friends; or else a friend might recommend somebody and you meet; or else a work colleague, student, parent, etc., might like your character and recommend you to somebody.
In the West, it's hardly that much different. I've been set up by friends of mine with their friends, and vice versa. Thinking of my close circle of friends, one couple met through work, one were in college together, one met through friends at a wedding and one were flatmates, while I met my wife online.
You may find this shocking - I recommend that you sit down for this news - but most Westeners do not meet their spouses after having unprotected sex with them in nightclub toilets. Shocking but true. Unfortunately I imagine that a "Decadent Westerners are actually pretty dull" sermon is not the kind of thing you hear from Al-Qaradawi and the like.I'd like to ask you a question: How many people in schools, college, work, pub would initiate a relationship with somebody missing an eye, limb or seriously scarred?? (a very small percentage)
Gordon Brown and Heather Mills seem to have done OK.
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Wont a muslim man feel the same in a relationship with a non muslim woman? Or are muslim men not supposed to be considerate of the feelings of their partner?
Thats just the thing the muslim man will be considerate of the xtain and jewish faith as he believes in the books and the prophets but the xtian or jewish man doesnt believe in the final prophet Muhammad (and jesus if jewish). Its part of a muslim mans or womans faith. However, the MAN is the breadwinner and protector and head of the family so usually the women obey him(atleast in these 3 religions).
I dont know how many households you have actually been in, but I've rarley seen any where the woman is in complete obedience to the man. It just doesn't make for a balanced home. You simply cannot have a healthy relationship where one party looks down on the other, there has to be mutual respect.
I agree, a similitude, you cant have two pilots flying a plane at THE SAME TIME in opposite directions, however if one pilot has complete obedience then we're in safe hands or even if he agrees with major decisions like what direction they go in etc we will be ok, but if they dont agree on the basics we would be in trouble!.Its also ingrained in the muslim female, is it not? Seems like bit of a moot point.
Yes its ingrained in the muslim female too....but again, the muslim female is not head of the household neither is the xtian or the jewish woman.But by not allowing people to come into contact with temptations you are preventing them from learning to control their nafs, because you are doing it for them. If life is a test and we pass it by controlling our desires, then we need to actually experience those desires in order to control them. Someone who is born in a country where it is impossible for him to drink, take drugs, freely mingle with the opposite sex will hardly get any browny points for never actually doing these things.
People are controlling their desires all the time, otherwise we will all end up sleeping around, doing drugs and all sorts. We dont have to 'experience' killing someone in order to control our desire of hate. Imagine if we let people break the law and go around killing each other because we wont know otherwise if they will break the law or not so we have to enforce some rules before people make 'serious' mistakes.
Also fornication happens in all countries, even in muslim ones so pls dont think it doesnt just because its hidden. However the IMPORTANT thing is that its the intention that counts, so if someone is able to commit a crime but doesnt he will get a browny point, if he cant but he wants to he will get no points, if he doesnt want to and cant anyway then he will still get a browny point. Theres a whole fatwa on intentions and it will take a page so i will leave it out for now.It makes perfect sense. Life, as you said, is a test and to pass it you must control your basic instincts and the desire to protect your children is the most basic instinct their is.
Not only do I think that "muslim children" aren't to be proud of, but I think that "christian children" and "jewish children" or any ""insert religion here" children" arent to be proud of. Children cant make fully informed decisions on what to eat for breakfast, never mind what religion to be. Bringing up a child as a member of any religion is just indoctrination of someone elses beliefs, how many people are members of some religion purely by the geographical fluke of where they are born?. I'm all for taking care of our elderly and raising our children to be good people, and these are things that can be accomplished by parents of any religion, but no-one should make the decision for their kids as to what religion they are, no-one should be a member of any relgion until they are old enough to make the decision fully informed.
Actually islam says that a child is born a muslim but his/her parents make them a xtian, jew or whatever beacuse children are born upon the truth and are innocent. Being good depends on the definition of good because whats 'good' for one person may not be for another person. Say for e.g. a whole village full of children is being blown to bits by an evil force for oil and no-one can stop them or wants to get involved, is it good for someone to try and help them by removing the evil tyrant by any means neccassary, what makes a good human being, someone who stands up for human rights or someone who stands up for their country? is it bad to protect your family against a paedo by stopping him any means neccassary or by even killing him as a last resort? there are lots of scenarios. In the end ultimately Allah (swt)decides whats good or bad as he created everyone. An able bodied person wont know whats good for a disabled bodied person and vice versa, neither would a man know whats good for a woman and vice versa, an american wont know what lack of freedom is compared to another country, we simply cant know these things so how can we abide my man made laws, its like having a VCR and asking someone else to write a manual on it other than the manufacturer.
Even if someone is 'good' he can still end up in hell....
"The biggest losers are those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work. Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefore their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them. That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers." [The cave 104-6]
Stds and drug abuse are pretty common in non-western countries too:
Yes i know but the times wasnt doing a supplement on non-western countries!.0 -
On the subject of Islamic marriages, how exactly do Muslims get married when people of the opposite sex aren't allowed to socialise or look at eachother? Just a little curious, as it seems the only possible chance to actually marry someone is through an arranged marriage?
I definately do not trust my parents at all, alot of our parents dont even like the mosques we go to so you can imagine what kindve people they will find, also they think if you pray a couple of times you are very religous!. Some mosques take down names of those who want to get married and try and help. Its usually word of mouth but there are some muslim marriage event sites out now. We meet the opposite sex with our mehrams (a trustworthy male member of our own family for safety) and discuss whatever we need to and look at each other as many times as we want but it has to be chaperoned, unfortuantely we dont get to live with each other as this could easily result in fornication but we have like a guidance prayer that we can do that is supposed to guide us to the prospective partner if Allah wills.0 -
I admit that my statement was untrue. Sorry for causing confusion.So I'm confused. You originally said "I think most western marriages [...] are based on Lust". Indicated that it's lust and nothing else. Are you backtracking on this or do you still claim it is true?
This is exactly my point; and to answer Jannah's original question. If you go to different societies and belief systems, the people are almost similar in their way of thinking about how to meet their future partners (a part form some hollywood celebrities of course!) -- and please don't get the wrong ideas; I'm joking (I know even some hollywood celebrities are humans with the same world views as us)In the West, it's hardly that much different. I've been set up by friends of mine with their friends, and vice versa. Thinking of my close circle of friends, one couple met through work, one were in college together, one met through friends at a wedding and one were flatmates, while I met my wife online.
We don't follow one fixed Imam in Islam (like the pope, etc.) I never actually listened to Qaradawi's sermons before. But from common sense we come to some conclusions (as long as we don't contradict the Qur'an and the Prophet). My views seemed to have really hit a nerve! Anyway, what I meant is written above..You may find this shocking - I recommend that you sit down for this news - but most Westeners do not meet their spouses after having unprotected sex with them in nightclub toilets. Shocking but true. Unfortunately I imagine that a "Decadent Westerners are actually pretty dull" sermon is not the kind of thing you hear from Al-Qaradawi and the like.
Again, I said a small percentage. But again I could be wrong. These are my views.Gordon Brown and Heather Mills seem to have done OK.0 -
arranged marriage is not unknown in the west-in the passed many people had a arranged marriage then it was called a marriage of convenience--on the topic of burkers a few years ago where i worked i knew a iranian[femail]professor she did not cover her head or cover her legs she told us when asked, that the koran only says that she must not show any thing above the knee-by the way she was a professer of islamic studies -i can only take her word for this as i dont know if this is true0
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Thats just the thing the muslim man will be considerate of the xtain and jewish faith as he believes in the books and the prophets but the xtian or jewish man doesnt believe in the final prophet Muhammad (and jesus if jewish). Its part of a muslim mans or womans faith. However, the MAN is the breadwinner and protector and head of the family so usually the women obey him(atleast in these 3 religions).
But xtian and jewish woman also do not believe in the final prophet Muhammad, so that the issue is still there. It might be the case that in Islam, women are considered subserviant to men, but, at least coming from a xtian background, I can tell you thats not the case with healthy xtian marriages. Most xtian men will make a major household decision without consulting the wife (and vice-versa) head of the household or not.I agree, a similitude, you cant have two pilots flying a plane at THE SAME TIME in opposite directions, however if one pilot has complete obedience then we're in safe hands or even if he agrees with major decisions like what direction they go in etc we will be ok, but if they dont agree on the basics we would be in trouble!.
What makes you think you need to be in complete obedience of someone to work with them? You can discuss things and talk things through and come to agreements and have both parties feel a lot more respected for it.Yes its ingrained in the muslim female too....but again, the muslim female is not head of the household neither is the xtian or the jewish woman.
The term "head of the household" does not exist anymore in this day and age. These days, since knowing full well that men and women are fully equal entities, and fully capable of performing each others traditional duties (biology permitting).People are controlling their desires all the time, otherwise we will all end up sleeping around, doing drugs and all sorts. We dont have to 'experience' killing someone in order to control our desire of hate. Imagine if we let people break the law and go around killing each other because we wont know otherwise if they will break the law or not so we have to enforce some rules before people make 'serious' mistakes.
I didn't say you should let people experience killing or drugtaking etc to control theose desires, I said you have to let people experience those desires in order to learn to control them. You learn how to balance on a bike by actuallytrying to ride the bike, not by having the bike hidden away because of the "evils of falling".Also fornication happens in all countries, even in muslim ones so pls dont think it doesnt just because its hidden. However the IMPORTANT thing is that its the intention that counts, so if someone is able to commit a crime but doesnt he will get a browny point, if he cant but he wants to he will get no points, if he doesnt want to and cant anyway then he will still get a browny point. Theres a whole fatwa on intentions and it will take a page so i will leave it out for now.
Problem is that for a lot of people, what they want to do is determined by what they percieve they can do. If they think they cant do it anyway, they will not make an informed decision on whether they actually desire it, and then they wont make an informed decision on whether they are actually going to go for itActually islam says that a child is born a muslim but his/her parents make them a xtian, jew or whatever beacuse children are born upon the truth and are innocent.
Its funny how some would see it that all children are born muslim, but their parents make them in whatever religion they end up as, while others would see it that all children are born essentially blank slates, and simply do what their parents tell them to do (for the most part)Being good depends on the definition of good because whats 'good' for one person may not be for another person. Say for e.g. a whole village full of children is being blown to bits by an evil force for oil and no-one can stop them or wants to get involved, is it good for someone to try and help them by removing the evil tyrant by any means neccassary, what makes a good human being, someone who stands up for human rights or someone who stands up for their country? is it bad to protect your family against a paedo by stopping him any means neccassary or by even killing him as a last resort? there are lots of scenarios. In the end ultimately Allah (swt)decides whats good or bad as he created everyone. An able bodied person wont know whats good for a disabled bodied person and vice versa, neither would a man know whats good for a woman and vice versa, an american wont know what lack of freedom is compared to another country, we simply cant know these things so how can we abide my man made laws, its like having a VCR and asking someone else to write a manual on it other than the manufacturer.
There are "shades" of good, and good can be greatly influenced by context, opportunity and capability. But what is good can be discussed and decided upon, people, if brought up correctly, can at least aim to do the things they know are good and figure out the best thing to do in a bad situation.Even if someone is 'good' he can still end up in hell....
"The biggest losers are those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work. Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefore their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them. That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers." [The cave 104-6]
Thats nice, so, hypothetically, by the fluke of where you are born, you could grow up a saint, helping everyone everywhere you go, doing no harm to anyone and simply by your own example encouraging others to be good, but since you never encountered the religion of Islam in your travels, you go to hell anyway. Of course the hypothetical corollary is that in heaven there is a hate-filled, bigotted, murderer who got there simply because he believed that his belief in Islam justified his/her hate, bigotry and crimes. I know where I would rather be.Yes i know but the times wasnt doing a supplement on non-western countries!.
Its a western paper, why would it do a supplement on non-western countries? Pointing out the problems of other countries does nothing to solve your own.0
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