anthony stokes

ziggy

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KdjaCL

Thompson Lennon and Sutton, Petrov on the right Agathe on the left.

Hardly a mix of attacking creative football compared to Lennon Nakamura Mac Geady Graveson

MON played not to lose (always has and always will), GS plays to win always will.


kdjac

evilhomer

KdjaCL wrote:

Thompson Lennon and Sutton, Petrov on the right Agathe on the left.

I just can't agree with that statement at all.

Agathe was a right sided wing-back for Martin O'Neil (I don't recall seeing him play on the left very often (if at all), Petrov may have played on the right of the centre midfield, but you would never call him a right winger type, he always tucked in and was always more attack minded then defensive.

Thompson only played centre mid on occasion (injury related usually) mostly bombing up and down the left wing.

Sutton was incredible and played all over the park (even at centre-half on occasion) but usually as an attacking midfielder behind the front two (when playing midfield).

Although not as attacking as Strachans new midfield is it is certainly not what you would call conservative.

I agree with you though about MON playing not to lose, but maybe only in the champions league/ UEFA cup.

There wasn't much competition from any of the other teams in the SPL to warrant playing conservative football.

KdjaCL

evilhomer wrote:

I just can't agree with that statement at all.

So MON didnt play 5 in midfield? Those players were just 5 i seen play there, he played 5 in mid with the intention of not losing in all comps a tactic that served him very well, by nullifying the oposition you get the ball with a mid 5 he had they created crosses for larsson hartson etc: to score.

GS goes with attacking football has tried it with all his previous clubs and is his thing now. MON played 5 in mid with leicester celtic and now villa with the intention of not losing.

kdjac

A Dub in Glasgo

Gordon Strachan sums it up

GS wrote:

People want to come here and win championships, play in Europe at the highest level, play in front of 60,000 people and play with good players with the chance of making yourself a legendary figure. If you feel you can get that elsewhere then fair enough.

Charlton :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

Some people dont want to play against amateur defenders week in week out though.

ziggy

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eirebhoy

Sizzler wrote:

IDIOTS

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/?jp=CWSNCWCWAUGB

Obviously Strachan couldnt guarantee him 1st team football

I'd say it's more he couldn't be guaranteed £20k a week. Lennon, Nakamura, Boruc and the rest of the team bar 3 or 4 are on less than £20k a week. They'd have expected someone like Stokes to accept around £5k for his first season. Charlton can offer a lot more than that though. If they paid Stokes what he was looking for Maloney would be gone like a shot as he's in negotiations since last February.

I'm pissed off about this. He would have been ideal for Celtic.

Raskolnikov

eirebhoy wrote:

I'd say it's more he couldn't be guaranteed £20k a week. Lennon, Nakamura, Boruc and the rest of the team bar 3 or 4 are on less than £20k a week. They'd have expected someone like Stokes to accept around £5k for his first season. Charlton can offer a lot more than that though. If they paid Stokes what he was looking for Maloney would be gone like a shot as he's in negotiations since last February.

I'm pissed off about this. He would have been ideal for Celtic.

Naka is only on £20K a week? :eek: He'll be gone by the Summer time if he doesn't get a payrise!

eirebhoy

Raskolnikov wrote:

Naka is only on £20K a week? :eek: He'll be gone by the Summer time if he doesn't get a payrise!

Less than £20k when he first signed anyway. He wouldn't be earning and less than he was on at Reggina. Strachan said in his book that Naka, Boruc and Zurawski are all earning the same amount combined as 1 player who left Celtic. I presume that's Lambert. Obviously he's happy with his wage as he signed an extension in the summer. Naka was bought for less than £2m aswell. People say Duff was a bargain at £5m, Naka's a much better player. Celtic put premiership fee's into perspective.

Roddy23

Roddy23 wrote:

Stokes is from Crumlin - he used to play for Lourdes Celtic, among other teams.

Actually he's from Perrystown, played for Lourdes Celtic, Cherry Orchard and Shelbourne.

Damn fine Gaelic Footballer too!

Dempsey

eirebhoy wrote:

Less than £20k when he first signed anyway. He wouldn't be earning and less than he was on at Reggina. Strachan said in his book that Naka, Boruc and Zurawski are all earning the same amount combined as 1 player who left Celtic. I presume that's Lambert. Obviously he's happy with his wage as he signed an extension in the summer. Naka was bought for less than £2m aswell. People say Duff was a bargain at £5m, Naka's a much better player. Celtic put premiership fee's into perspective.

Naka renegotiated his contract during the summer though

Roddy23

Perrystown

Perrystown, sure thats what the rich part of Crumlin is called,.

GuanYin

He may go to Sunderland yet, it seems.

A Dub in Glasgo

So much for 'the lure of the EPL'!

I wonder if Sunderland offered an extra quid per week to the boy :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

has he gone to sunderland now?

I see Pearson is probaly off to Derby now. Derby looking a very solid chance for promotion, probaly winners too.

MrJoeSoap

Seems that way.

DUBLINER Anthony Stokes will today put pen to paper on a shock three-and-a-half year, £2.5 million (€3.7 million) deal with Sunderland after Roy Keane’s persuasive powers snatched him away from Premiership strugglers Charlton.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=22359-qqqx=1.asp

ziggy

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scojones

Fair play to Keane. A brilliant move for both Stokes and Sunderland.

Mitch Connor

more chance of playing Prem football with Sunderland next season then charlton.

Kingp35

Why is this a brilliant move for Stokes? Sunderland wont go up this season, they are far too inconsistant. For me its the lure of the Irish connection at Sunderland that has taken him there but its a bad move on Stokes part. He should have held out for the move to Celtic imo.

Chucky the tree

ziggy67 wrote:

For that read "after Roy Keane's big bag of money"

Why does everyone think its about the money?


The only ones who seem to be suggesting that are Celtic fans, maybe its just bitterness though.

Mitch Connor

Kingp35 wrote:

Why is this a brilliant move for Stokes? Sunderland wont go up this season, they are far too inconsistant. For me its the lure of the Irish connection at Sunderland that has taken him there but its a bad move on Stokes part. He should have held out for the move to Celtic imo.

what do you mean? he had the chance to go to celtic and snubbed it.

Kingp35

Tauren wrote:

what do you mean? he had the chance to go to celtic and snubbed it.

Has he come out and said he doesnt want to go to Celtic? My point still stands though, why is moving to Sunderland a good move?

scojones

Kingp35 wrote:

Why is this a brilliant move for Stokes? Sunderland wont go up this season, they are far too inconsistant. For me its the lure of the Irish connection at Sunderland that has taken him there but its a bad move on Stokes part. He should have held out for the move to Celtic imo.

He had the option of going to Celtic if he wanted - he didn't. It's a brilliant move for Stokes because after next season Sunderland will be in the premiership - and at Sunderland he is going to get regular football. The chance of playing in the Premiership for the 2008-2009 season outweighs any benefit I see with him going to Celtic.
£15000 a week is brilliant money for the lad, and he will learn alot about the game from Keane - both for playing in England and playing for Ireland.

sundula

sjones wrote:

He had the option of going to Celtic if he wanted - he didn't. It's a brilliant move for Stokes because after next season Sunderland will be in the premiership - and at Sunderland he is going to get regular football. The chance of playing in the Premiership for the 2008-2009 season outweighs any benefit I see with him going to Celtic.
£15000 a week is brilliant money for the lad, and he will learn alot about the game from Keane - both for playing in England and playing for Ireland.

£15000 a week is amazing money. But I dont think you can be so certain about Sunderland getting promoted.

scojones

sundula wrote:

£15000 a week is amazing money. But I dont think you can be so certain about Sunderland getting promoted.

Yes, that's a fair point to make - but it's very obvious that Keane's plan in the next couple of years is to have Sunderland in the prem, and if Stokes played like he did with Falkirk it isn't too hard to imagine. I think it's the best thing for the lad because if Sunderland don't get promoted - and he plays well he will get spotted by some of the premiership teams and should really be in the premiership soon enough, if he can prove himself.

Kingp35

sjones wrote:

It's a brilliant move for Stokes because after next season Sunderland will be in the premiership - and at Sunderland he is going to get regular football. The chance of playing in the Premiership for the 2008-2009 season outweighs any benefit I see with him going to Celtic.

Exactly how are you reaching this conclusion?

sundula

sjones wrote:

but it's very obvious that Keane's plan in the next couple of years is to have Sunderland in the prem,

It may be obvious, but the Champoinship is full of teams planning for the Prem and very few of them make it. In most cases the Manager gets the boot before the club make the jump, if they ever make the jump. No team is entitled to the promotion.

BaZmO*

sundula wrote:

It may be obvious, but the Champoinship is full of teams planning for the Prem and very few of them make it. In most cases the Manager gets the boot before the club make the jump, if they ever make the jump. No team is entitled to the promotion.

But still, by that logic he may as well sign for a team that is planning and building for the future with the possibility of promotion (Sunderland) rather than a team that's heading for relegation and the uncertainties that surround that situation.

If he did sign for Charlton and they went down at the end of the season there would be no gaurantee that Pardew would still be there thereby putting Stokes place in the squad at jeopardy. I think that most people would agree that Keane will definitely still be at Sunderland this time next year.

Nalz

I dunno if Sunderland was a great move for him or not, but surely it was better than Charlton. A chance to be in the prem next year, decent wages, loadsa irish etc...decent enough shopping window to prove his worth, should Sunderland not reach the prem next year

cournioni

Kingp35 wrote:

Why is this a brilliant move for Stokes? Sunderland wont go up this season, they are far too inconsistant. For me its the lure of the Irish connection at Sunderland that has taken him there but its a bad move on Stokes part. He should have held out for the move to Celtic imo.

How do you know that Stokes signing for Sunderland won't bring an end to Sunderland's inconsistancy?

Kingp35

PORNAPSTER wrote:

How do you know that Stokes signing for Sunderland won't bring an end to Sunderland's inconsistancy?

How do you know that it will?

scojones

Kingp35 wrote:

How do you know that it will?

I don't think there's much point discussing anything with you!

eirebhoy

Chucky the tree wrote:

Why does everyone think its about the money?


The only ones who seem to be suggesting that are Celtic fans, maybe its just bitterness though.

I'm pretty sure the reason he rejected Celtic was down to money. I certainly know he wouldn't be getting £17k at Celtic. He's a Celtic fan and said a few times that it's his dream to play for them. He rejected Celtic while a match was going on. This means that Strachan was in the dugout while Stokes and his father were chatting to Lawwell and Desmond. They were obviously discussing financial terms.

BaZmO*

eirebhoy wrote:

I'm pretty sure the reason he rejected Celtic was down to money.

What's the problem if it was?

I'd love to be present when you all go in for your yearly reviews in your respective places of employment. "No you're grand Bossman, I don't want any more money. In fact, I'm actually gonna take a pay cut because after all it's enough of an honour just working for the company logo in itself" :rolleyes:

Nalz

BaZmO* wrote:

What's the problem if it was?

I'd love to be present when you all go in for your yearly reviews in your respective places of employment. "No you're grand Bossman, I don't want any more money. In fact, I'm actually gonna take a pay cut because after all it's enough of an honour just working for the company logo in itself" :rolleyes:

post of the day!

eirebhoy

BaZmO* wrote:

What's the problem if it was?

I'm just replying to a post. Nakamura, Vennegoor, Gravesen, Jarosik, Boruc, McGeady, Maloney, etc. could all get a lot more money elsewhere if they wanted to. Gravesen took a huge wage cut to join Celtic. Hasselbaink rejected Celtic for the money of Charlton. It saves Celtic on the wages and at least you know you're getting players that really want to play for the club.

Stokes has a good 14 years ahead of him. It's not as if Celtic would be paying him less than he's on at Arsenal. After a season his wages would increase depending on how successful he was.

I certainly wouldn't choose a job based solely on the wage. If he thinks Sunderland is a better career choice then fair enough but I really doubt he does. You can replace "he" with "his father" btw.


More quotes:
"I was at Celtic and I'm still considering what was put to me then.

It looks like I could go to Sunderland but I don't know anything for certain yet.We'll see what happens."

sundula

BaZmO* wrote:

But still, by that logic he may as well sign for a team that is planning and building for the future with the possibility of promotion (Sunderland) rather than a team that's heading for relegation and the uncertainties that surround that situation.

If he did sign for Charlton and they went down at the end of the season there would be no gaurantee that Pardew would still be there thereby putting Stokes place in the squad at jeopardy. I think that most people would agree that Keane will definitely still be at Sunderland this time next year.

Again, Sunderland are not the only team planning for the future, I'm sure Charlton have plans of their own. There uncertainties at both clubs - maybe Charlton are a better gamble, they are in the Prem, they are in London, they have an established history in the Prem and although I am not fan Pardew he has more experience than Keane. I would reckon Pardew has the same chance of being in that job weather they stay in the Prem or get relegated. Being that he has Championship experience and has already got a team promoted from the Championship why would Charlton sack him if they got relegated?

Serbian

The way I see it, the only difference in footballing terms between him going to Celtic and Sunderland is he will be playing alongside better caliber players in the Celtic team. The Championship is of a similar standard to the Scottish Premiership (bar the old firm). However, he's not guaranteed first team football with Celtic, whereas I would be surprised if David Connolly or Stephen Elliott could keep him out of the Sunderland side.

I think it all hinges on whether he'll get the football in Scotland. If Strachan says he'll pick him then Celtic is the better move. If not, then go to Sunderland.

eirebhoy

Stokes' father:

"Money wasn't the key reason. He would have been
prepared to take a drop in money to sign for Celtic.

"But there are two reasons why he went to Sunderland. They made Anthony feel really
welcome and made him realise how big a club they are.

"Secondly, the manager's determination to get him was crucial. Roy was a big hero of
Anthony's.

"We used to go over to Old Trafford to watch him play - and there is a photo in the house
of Anthony as a nine-year-old with Roy.

"It's funny - because it shows Anthony with a black eye from a schoolboy game - standing beside Roy with a look of childish wonder.
Now he's his manager.

"And while it wasn't an easy decision for Anthony to make - far from it in fact - we
just had a good feeling about it because of how Sunderland made us feel.

"Celtic's offer was good. So too was Charlton's. But we feel at home here and that's important.

"The move certainly wasn't about money. And it's not fair on the young kid to
pin that accusation on him.

"As I said, he would have taken a drop to sign for Celtic but there is a limit to
his loyalty to them. The drop would have had to have been within reason."

Raskolnikov

Whether he chose Sunderland or Celtic, I'm sure everyone can agree that at least he didn't join Charlton.

eirebhoy

Signed for Sunderland.

scojones

Raskolnikov wrote:

Whether he chose Sunderland or Celtic, I'm sure everyone can agree that at least he didn't join Charlton.

Well said.

sundula

Raskolnikov wrote:

Whether he chose Sunderland or Celtic, I'm sure everyone can agree that at least he didn't join Charlton.

Dont know why you would rule out Charlton. Either way he would be better off in England. Generally speaking young talent leaves Scotland for England and no other way around.

Nalz

eirebhoy wrote:

Signed for Sunderland.

link?

this is all i can get from sky sports

event

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/6235101.stm

GuanYin

Personally I think its the best move for him. Celtic are a great club for all the reasons Strachan gave, and more but there are a couple of things to consider - first off thereis the challenge - Stokes found life in a poor team in the SPL to be easy enough - he wasn't overly consistant, but he reaped rewards against the teams with weak defences.

Looking objectively, Celtic offered the chance to score lots of goals and win medals, but to be fair, he'd be playing against weak players and his competition for a place to play against weak players would be greater. Add the lower wage to this and I can understand why he rejected it out of turn. If he were german, french or english I can't imagine there would be as much objection to him rejecting Celtic - I don't see the SPL as a good place for any young striker to progress once you're in the Old Firm teams. The challenge just isn't strong enough and you're going to become the best by playing against the best - not just with them.

Regarding Charlton or Sunderland - I think Sunderland are inconsistant but clearly have a plan for the future - Charlton have shown that, at a managment level at least, they haven't a clue whats going on.

I'm a Forest supporter and having watched Forest comfortably beat them 2-0 in the FA Cup (had to get that in) - Charlton looked absolutely toothless, devoid of creativity and supply, so much so, that when Forest sat back deep at 2-0, Charlton *still* couldn't muster a decent chance.

From a footballing point of view, a move to Charlton would have been like an engineer joining the titanic for the last 20 minutes armed only wiith a bucket.

So that just leaves Sunderland and I have to say - I'd be happy for any good young player to progress under Keane's managment. He has after all been groomed by the best manager of the last 30 years so and as I said, Sunderland do seem to have a clear idea of progress in mind.

The Championship teams are physically tough and the style and nature of defender is more varied. The level overall is much the same as the SPL but with more teams I think you'll find more good teams overall than in scotland (more bad ones too).

Time will tyell, but I would say he made the best choice of the 3.

MrJoeSoap

sjones wrote:

after next season Sunderland will be in the premiership

How so?

Chucky the tree

eirebhoy wrote:

I'm pretty sure the reason he rejected Celtic was down to money. I certainly know he wouldn't be getting £17k at Celtic. He's a Celtic fan and said a few times that it's his dream to play for them. He rejected Celtic while a match was going on. This means that Strachan was in the dugout while Stokes and his father were chatting to Lawwell and Desmond. They were obviously discussing financial terms.

I think it was down to regular first team football. If he goes to Celtic and doesnt get his game for a few seasons that would be a huge dent on his progress. he's only 18, if he continues to develop the way he is, he will get another chance to join Celtic, and probaly be a guranteed starter at that stage.

I still wouldnt knock him it was for money. I think alot people are being very harsh on the kid.



Where the hell is all the sunderland for the premiership love coming from?