Magnet Networks tp launch 24MB service on Friday

philologos

yes but as I say its a decent rate for Ireland you cant go comparing between countries for broadband because obviously the standard is better and theres more competition... To be honest Magnet have done Ireland a huge favour by even putting 24Mbit in the spotlight! Of course its going to be a high price with no competition at 24Mbit...

Blaster99

The price for the 24M/1M isn't totally unlike Eircom's for a 4M/256K product, and less than Digiweb's 6M/2M product. So it's very competitive in an Irish context. Hopefully this will put an end to the 4Mbps ****e that's peddled for about €200 and we'll begin to see some real broadband products.

I'm very disappointed with the upload speed, though.

halenger

As was I, but it's 4MB in FTH (fiber-to-home) estates. It's a shame they're so uncommon.

1MB falls under the minimum threshold if I'm not mistaken. Upload is supposed to be a minimum of 6% or 8% (I can't remember which). Either way it's still well below it (6% would be 1.44MB and 8% would be 1.92MB).

Maskhadov

€240 EVERY month competitive ?? Thats a complete joke. Maybe if your a small business who does a lot of work over the internet, but its defintely not for the ordinary joe soap. €50/month is enough.

flamegrill

do you people have any idea how much IP transit costs???

FFS 100mbps of bandwidth is gona cost ya minimum 4k-6K a month per provider, and I'd assume magnet have multiple providers. So lets say they have 5 providers each at 100mbps and an average price of 4500 euro per carrier- so they have 22500 euro a month to pay for ip transit. In an uncontended network they will get approx 20 24mbps dsl users onto that and get 5000 a month from them.

And you people are bitching about 24mbit/s costing you 240 ???

Christ they are throwing it at us! Obviously consumers aren't going to take that product but I'm sure _many_ business will!

Blaster99

flamegrill wrote:

do you people have any idea how much IP transit costs???

About as much as it costs in other countries. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to translate into the retail market.

elexes

flamegrill wrote:

do you people have any idea how much IP transit costs???

FFS 100mbps of bandwidth is gona cost ya minimum 4k-6K a month per provider, and I'd assume magnet have multiple providers. So lets say they have 5 providers each at 100mbps and an average price of 4500 euro per carrier- so they have 22500 euro a month to pay for ip transit. In an uncontended network they will get approx 20 24mbps dsl users onto that and get 5000 a month from them.

And you people are bitching about 24mbit/s costing you 240 ???

Christ they are throwing it at us! Obviously consumers aren't going to take that product but I'm sure _many_ business will!

id fully support this comment in every shape and form . when it gets to my aera i shall be ordering it for the shop.

philologos

Maskhadov wrote:

€240 EVERY month competitive ?? Thats a complete joke. Maybe if your a small business who does a lot of work over the internet, but its defintely not for the ordinary joe soap. €50/month is enough.

are you ever going to need that much bandwidth in reality. Most download servers only allow about 200KB/s per connection so you would hardly ever reach it unless you downloaded a lot simultaneously. Who would download so much files at once as to cover a 24Mbit connection!! It's obviously not intended for the residential user, and it obviously isnt needed by the residential user. Some of you people just need to see that!

I'm also starting to see what a lot of you are like. You complain about one thing and when it gets better you complain about another!!? This is exactly what Ireland needs and it shouldnt be bitched about it should be welcomed. (If any of you are ****in capable of that)

johncorleone

SyxPak wrote:

And FTTH will be introduced when...?

4meg synchronous would be preferable to 24meg/1.5meg

Magnet also launched 10Mb and 24Mb symmetric services today in FTTH areas, for the same price as the ADSL2+ products.

penexpers

Maskhadov wrote:

€240 EVERY month competitive ?? Thats a complete joke. Maybe if your a small business who does a lot of work over the internet, but its defintely not for the ordinary joe soap. €50/month is enough.

And a home user has a use for 24Mb/s how?

Sponge Bob

flamegrill wrote:

do you people have any idea how much IP transit costs???

Magnet are owned by the same guy who owns the Hibernia Atlantic Fibre so they can get US transit or UK Transit and bring it over here for (relatively speaking) feck all.

You can get anything you want in Hudson St or Telehouse.

flamegrill

Blaster99 wrote:

About as much as it costs in other countries. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to translate into the retail market.

Wrong. The UK have lots and lots of fibre running through the workings around the channel tunnel. This was realatively cheap to install and gives the UK shed loads of connectivity into europe amoungst other things. And lets not forget that the UK has circa 61million more people living there than Ireland has. IP transit in Ireland for examle from colt/tiscali/smart etc will cost ye between 100 and 300 euro a month for a 10mbps commit. You can abuse^^^HH use packet exchange and get that as low as 75 or 80/ mbps(10mbps commit), but that is single homed. i.e. 1 carrier, carrier has an issue your a dead duck, if your an ISP you need peering arrangements and lots of bandwidth from tier one providers. i.e. it isn't cheap

All of europe is one big piece of land, its _MUCH_ cheaper to run fibre along power lines and under land than it is the sea. We have kit in dublin and in amsterdam, we being a nice big hosting company. We pay between 20 euro a mbps in amsterdam to 400/mbps depending on the provider in Ireland. The price difference is mental. Therefore you can not expect the current market to support 24mbps dsl for 50 euro a month, especially when 250 includes the line rental. That would mean you expect 24mbps for 25 euro?? Its not going to happen in the current climate, the market is starting to mature and the likes of Packet exchange are bringing the pricing down, but for the moment 250 euro for 24mbps is an excellent deal. Hell Ibb charge 250 euro for their 4mbps broadband package, I don't hear anyone bitching about its pricing (not denying that they suck, just making a point)

so to close, Magnets pricing stucture appears to be fair and they currently offer the fastest broadband in Ireland by a long way. So lets encourage them and others to compete and bring the pricing down. It will come down, but it's going to take time.

Paul

OfflerCrocGod

penexpers wrote:

And a home user has a use for 24Mb/s how?

Stop peddling that crap €ircon excuse would you? Bunch of Nazi appeasers Seriously though the rest of Europe is happily rolling out higher speeds and somehow the costumers are happy to buy these products. In the UK there is a lot of interest in 24Mb BB by residents at the moment LLU is going full steam the only reason more ppl aren't getting LLU is because BT can only process so many ppl at a time. You have to have the infrastructure in first before ppl can use it; horse before cart! HDTV is an obvious use as is VOIP and VoD I'm sure there are others.

philologos

Sponge Bob wrote:

Magnet are owned by the same guy who owns the Hibernia Atlantic Fibre so they can get US transit or UK Transit and bring it over here for (relatively speaking) feck all.

You can get anything you want in Hudson St or Telehouse.

they still have to make an income on the maintenance costs etc which are probably huge

penexpers wrote:

And a home user has a use for 24Mb/s how?

hes 100% correct as as I have said before most hosts only allow 200KB/s max per connection.

Sponge Bob

Jakkass wrote:

they still have to make an income on the maintenance costs etc which are probably huge

No 'maintenance' is done on a transatlantic fibre, its 5 miles down . Magnet can get their IP transit at sort of London/Amsterdam prices as outlined by Flamegrill above.

If a magnet customer could do some tracerts to misc US universities and large corps I would like to 'interpret' the results if pasted in here .

philologos

Sponge Bob wrote:

No 'maintenance' is done on a transatlantic fibre, its 5 miles down . Magnet can get their IP transit at sort of London/Amsterdam prices as outlined by Flamegrill above.

just because most of it is underneath the atlantic doesnt mean that there isnt any running costs in Boston, Halifax, New York, Dublin, Manchester and any of the other datacentres they use does it?

Sponge Bob wrote:

If a magnet customer could do some tracerts to misc US universities and large corps I would like to 'interpret' the results if pasted in here .

BT and Eircom also run on hibernia atlantic just so you know

Sponge Bob

Jakkass wrote:

BT and Eircom also run on hibernia atlantic just so you know

I am that surprised ! Have Eircom maxed their IRU's on the Global Crossing fibre already ??

SeaSide

Sponge Bob wrote:

No 'maintenance' is done on a transatlantic fibre, its 5 miles down

There are several cable ships on 24 hour stand by to repair breaks. Repeaters also malfunction and have to be replaced

philologos

Sponge Bob wrote:

I am that surprised ! Have Eircom maxed their IRU's on the Global Crossing fibre already ??

I meant in the context of pinging etc. A magnet customer pings along the same fiber as an eircom and bt customer will because they use Hibernia Atlantic (even check the site ffs)

Snaga

Sponge Bob wrote:

No 'maintenance' is done on a transatlantic fibre, its 5 miles down . Magnet can get their IP transit at sort of London/Amsterdam prices as outlined by Flamegrill above.

Ah you know better than that. Landing station costs, the immmense power needed to feed the repeaters under the ocean, the ships (and crew) required to fix these things when the cable gets damaged, etc...


Edit - ah i click to reply and get around to it 45 minutes later - What seaside says above

Sponge Bob

Snaga wrote:

the immmense power needed to feed the repeaters under the ocean,

Ah Yes, the power for the repeaters. Will we discuss the nuclear junk on the seabed off the Irish Coast then or will we leave it .

AFAIK the recent cables are fixed on demand and do not have 24 hour standby ships for immediate fault repairs along most of their runs as they are fault tolerant rings and can survive many forms of outage.

philologos

Sponge Bob wrote:

Ah Yes, the power for the repeaters. Will we discuss the nuclear junk on the seabed off the Irish Coast then or will we leave it .

AFAIK the recent cables are fixed on demand and do not have 24 hour standby ships for immediate fault repairs along most of their runs as they are fault tolerant rings and can survive many forms of outage.

Im sorry but wtf does the Sellafield Power Station have to do with Magnet Networks and its 24Mbit speed offering??

Sponge Bob

Jakkass wrote:

Iwtf does the Sellafield Power Station

Nobody mentioned Sellafield except you so Shush

Where is it confirmed that the higher end , or indeed any of the Magnet packages are 100% uncontended , I note thet no contention is mentioned in the product descriptions which is not quite the same thing ????

Snaga

Sponge Bob wrote:

Ah Yes, the power for the repeaters. Will we discuss the nuclear junk on the seabed off the Irish Coast then or will we leave it .

AFAIK the recent cables are fixed on demand and do not have 24 hour standby ships for immediate fault repairs along most of their runs as they are fault tolerant rings and can survive many forms of outage.

Ships are kept prepped and ready to go at very short notice, this costs money. The entire repair can take over a week depending on where the problem is. Travel time to site, cable pull time, actualy splice time, testing and cable drop etc..

In the case of Hibernia Atlantic they have two cables to the US, one from manchester and one from dublin and yes, they do have dual failover protection according to their website. http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com/hibernia/Main/Home.htm

But they are still going to need a fault fixed ASAP, as a dual outage will take down everything and they will owe a lot of people a whole lot of money in compensation.

If you think they will sit back and say 'ah sure we'll send the ship out next week' then your mistaken.

philologos

Sponge Bob wrote:

Nobody mentioned Sellafield except you so Shush

Nuclear junk in the Irish Sea was obviously a reference to Sellafield.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Where is it confirmed that the higher end , or indeed any of the Magnet packages are 100% uncontended , I note thet no contention is mentioned in the product descriptions which is not quite the same thing ???

google Magnet Contention on Google Ireland search and theres an interview with the Magnet CEO saying that its uncontended

http://www.iol.ie/~discover/net.htm :: look at this also

OfflerCrocGod

Jakkass wrote:

100% correct as as I have said before most hosts only allow 200KB/s max per connection.

Have you read my post or not? There are uses for that kind of bandwidth - especially if the infrastructure is widespread enough so that there is a proper market segment to cater for.

ro2

flamegrill wrote:

Wrong. The UK have lots and lots of fibre running through the workings around the channel tunnel. This was realatively cheap to install and gives the UK shed loads of connectivity into europe amoungst other things. And lets not forget that the UK has circa 61million more people living there than Ireland has. IP transit in Ireland for examle from colt/tiscali/smart etc will cost ye between 100 and 300 euro a month for a 10mbps commit. You can abuse^^^HH use packet exchange and get that as low as 75 or 80/ mbps(10mbps commit), but that is single homed. i.e. 1 carrier, carrier has an issue your a dead duck, if your an ISP you need peering arrangements and lots of bandwidth from tier one providers. i.e. it isn't cheap

A few quick points, 99% of people won't get 24mb/s. The average for the 24mb/s product will probably be 14mb/s to 18mb/s, otherwise most customers would just go for the 10mb/s product. Also just because people have a faster connection doesn't mean that they'll be downloading at 18mb/s all the time. I'd say the 95 percentile billing for the majority of people on one of these products will be under 2mb/s.

Magnet don't buy bandwidth at a 10mb/s commit, so the cost isn't as high. They also peer at the INEX, reducing the average price per Mb. I'm sure they're not paying more than €50/Mb for their Global Crossing bandwidth too

At a guess I'd say that €400/Mb you mentioned has something to do with Esat

jm2k

You can get 20 Mb/s for €15 a month here in France, I can't see how it should be that more expensive at home, even taking into account our location.

philologos

Theres more offerings for that in Europe while Ireland is an emerging market in these services

CivilServant

This is great news for internet users in Ireland. But I can't help thinking that the caps are a little stingy at those speeds and those prices. Theorectically, you could exhaust your entire cap with the 24mb package over the course of 24 hours at max speed. Who'd want to download more than 250gb a day? Well lets just say you purchased the package and the first day you decided to fill up a hard drive for that giddy feeling of dling at light speed. Then the rush is over, have to wait til next month now. Now 250gb a day IS insane but over the course of a month not that bad. It's similar, capacity wise to digiwebs 3mb business line. But I'm only paying just over €100 a month vs €250 for the same capacity.