Xbox 360 ...rushed?

jesus_thats_gre

Retr0gamer wrote:

The PS3 will include the PS2 chipset in the form of that chip that Sony is marketing and is being put in a variety of electrical goods such as TVs. The backward compatability should be as good as the PS2 compatability with PS1 games. PS1 games should work on it as well. Emulation should be relatively painless unlike with the Xbox 360.

The cell processor is going to be included in many house hold appliances alright but I didn't hear the PS2 chipset was going to be used. To be honest, I can't see why it would be.

Goodshape

In the comments section over on Eurogamer they mention that Halo 1 & 2 work on the 360 out of the box -- the additional downloads are for hi-def upgrades. I assume it's the same for other games.

I do think the 360 is out too soon -- wheater or not that means it's unfinished, the current generation still seems to have some life in it (I for one have plenty of games yet to play and plenty I'm waiting to be released). No need for an upgrade just yet imho.

astrofool

the ps2 used the ps1 chips as the I/O controller.

The PS3 has its own dedicated i/o via the rambus flexIO right now, and is in fact based on having lots of bandwidth, far more than the ps2 chipset could provide.

For them to include it, it would be included as a seperate chip, which will add to the expense of the console, or they could emulate, or do something else even fancier.

secret_squirrel

Retr0gamer wrote:

The PS3 will include the PS2 chipset in the form of that chip that Sony is marketing

You're confused. The chip going into TV's is the cell which is what the PS3 core is based on. It has nothing to do with the PS2.

As a previous poster said Sony will either have to include a PS2 chipset inside the PS3 like they did for the PS1, or go down the same path as MS and release loads of patches. If it gains you HiDef in old games it would be worth it.

Both the CPU architechture and GFX architecture of the PS3 are vastly different to the PS2's.

BloodBath

With a company the size of Microsoft behind the 360, they simply won't throw the towel in at the first sign of the PS3, they can afford to produce and sell the 360 at a loss, even if that means not turning a profit in their computer games division until the generation after the 360, they have that much money. Lets be honest now, the 360 whilst expensive is going to have nothing on the price of a PS3 which will be a mooted With a company the size of Microsoft behind the 360, they simply won't throw the towel in at the first sign of the PS3, they can afford to produce and sell the 360 at a loss, even if that means not turning a profit in their computer games division until the generation after the 360, they have that much money. Lets be honest now, the 360 whilst expensive is going to have nothing on the price of a PS3 which will be a mooted €750.

Man I hate when people post **** like this. Please don't make posts that are bassed on speculation on how much the hardware costs sony to make. They will not even attempt to sell it anywhere near €750. Do you really think they are that stupid? They will also sell the console at a loss like microsoft and they will have to sell it at a compeditive price which means it will cost around the the same price as an 360 at launch.

This war could go either way atm. Both these companies are throwing loads of money into marketing but I think it's the games that are going to be the selling point at the end of the day. Sony is still king of the hill when it comes to exclusives on big games like gta, mgs ect. I don't think microsoft have thrown enough money at developers to make some big exclusive titles for them. The launch line up compared to previous console lineups is pretty reasonable. They just need to keep a steady flow of games coming over the next few months. Tbh i'm surprised they didn't throw a load of money at bungee to get halo 3 done for launch. You need big titles like that to shift consoles but they still have 6 months to get it together.

steviec

I think it's probably actually better for them to sit on Halo 3 and release it around the same time as PS3, they don't need it to be released just yet when there's no proper competition and all the hardware they've produced is going to sell out at Christmas regardless. The launch line up is as strong as it needs to be right now, and they want something in reserve so they can up the ante when they need to. The console can and will do a lot more than the current releases are showing, which is normal for release titles.

The €750 / it won't be as good as they say PS3 arguments are as bad as the €500 / 2 hour battery life / it'll never run a full GTA game PSP arguments a few months before it was released, there's no point in replying to that till there's actual facts to back it up.

super_furry

I think Microsoft have made the same decision Sega made with the Dreamcast - get it out first at all costs. Whether this will cost them in the long run, I don't know, they certainly have the money to prop up the console which Sega didn't. However at the moment, I'm content with the current generation of consoles and as the 360 doesn't offer a significant advancement over them, I'm happy to wait for the Playstation3 and Revolution. The fact that there's no must-have launch titles makes my decision to ignore the 360 even easier.

steviec

It definitely won't flop, Microsoft have plenty of money to support it and there's a decent fan base there and a lot of developer support. It's in a far better position than the Dreamcast was, which was a last attempt to save the company's console business after a dire Saturn performance. It simply didn't have the marketing, brand recognition or big name games to compete. Microsoft have all of the above. The question is will they stay a static number 2 or start gaining ground on Sony.

Being early didn't help Sega, but being late didn't help Nintendo or Microsoft either. The important thing is having brand recognistion and a huge library of software titles to cater for everyone, something Sony have done better than anyone in recent years, but Microsoft are getting there.

Laguna

BloodBath wrote:

Man I hate when people post **** like this. Please don't make posts that are bassed on speculation on how much the hardware costs sony to make.

I take it you don't read press junkets then, otherwise you'd know that Ken Kutaragi, the playstation svengali, said this himself

Computer & Video Games wrote:

Speaking to leading Japanese economic web site Toyo Keizai, Kutaragi-san said that players would need to work hard for their PS3, dropping the following bombshell: "Our goal for PlayStation 3 is for consumers to think to themselves, 'I will work more hours to buy one'. We want people to feel that they want it, irrespective of anything else.

if people who said my post is uninformed/wrong/stupid actually read what I wrote, I said it was mooted to be €750, when did mooted become another word for guarantee?, if it does turn to be in excess of €500, I wouldn't be surprised, doesn't anyone else see that paying €265 for a cut down portable PS2 is an indication of their pricing strategy?, Sony have an arrogance now that they feel gives them carte blanche to charge whatever they want for their new console and games. How I rue the day that the console war stopped being between Sega & Nintendo...

Ri_Nollaig

Gummy Panda wrote:

I'm looking more forward to the nintendo revolution but the xbox live was fantastic for a console. Hopefully ms can pull it off again but after seen these images that were emailed me, it has me worried

perhaps you should give the 2nd page too
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3145154

steviec

Laguna wrote:

doesn't anyone else see that paying €265 for a cut down portable PS2 is an indication of their pricing strategy?

I see it as an indication that Sony have charged far less than everyone predicted for their last console launch, so why shouldn't they for their next one? Just like the PSP, the PS3 is hyped to the moon by Sony, while everyone else says it'll never be that good, and it'll cost a fortune. Hopefully, just like the PSP, it will live up to everything Sony said and still be very reasonably priced.

iregk

Ok lets look at a few things here. Stevie, yes the psp cost €265 but this is similar to the core 360 package. to get the full workings from the psp you need to spend circa €500! The strong rumour is that the ps3 will be in the €600 region mark. The PS3 also has never been stated to be backward compatible, they said they are looking into it and everyone took that as gospel that it is. Weather it will or not there is still only one way it can be done, emulation. The ps3 does not contain any ps2 hardware so to play the games it will be emulation based same as the 360.

Anyway everyone going on about the 360 -v- ps3 saying this rocks that’s crap etc… Lets look at a few facts for once and not some fanboi ranting. Has anyone seen a ps3? No. So please stop with the whole ps3 rocks etc… as you haven’t even seen it. Now games. Most of the big games are made by big companies doing cross platform. The average cost of a top game these days is 5mill. Are companies going to spend double this for separate consoles? No, they will just do a port over so pretty much most of the big games will look and feel exactly the same on both consoles. The only difference will be the likes of Halo where exclusive rights come in, but then your not going to have any comparison as its only on one console.

Marketing spiel, the fire that runs Sony. Lets talk truth for a minute, everyone was blown away by the ps3 specs released. But where they real or just clever manipulation? Ok in getting to the market first MS had to release their specs first what did this give Sony? A target of specs they knew what they had to beat. Would Sony have mentioned 51billion dot operations if MS hadn’t said they can do 9? Of course they wouldn’t. What they didn’t tell you was that they added everything in the system together where as MS spoke purely about the CPU. The two systems are remarkably similar, the core and cell are very hard to compare at the moment as we don’t know what they can do but the 360 has the edge on the graphics.

Is the 360 rushed? Build terms no it isn’t but I do agree that the current gen has plenty of life left in it so maybe it could have been held off. That’s the only reason though other than that it’s a system delivered on time, the PS3 basically being delayed due to changes that came about in the making.

stevenmu

iregk wrote:

Lets look at a few facts for once and not some fanboi ranting. Has anyone seen a ps3? No. So please stop with the whole ps3 rocks etc…

iregk wrote:

Would Sony have mentioned 51billion dot operations if MS hadn’t said they can do 9? Of course they wouldn’t. What they didn’t tell you was that they added everything in the system together where as MS spoke purely about the CPU.

iregk wrote:

The two systems are remarkably similar, the core and cell are very hard to compare at the moment as we don’t know what they can do but the 360 has the edge on the graphics.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

MrPinK

iregk wrote:

Most of the big games are made by big companies doing cross platform. The average cost of a top game these days is 5mill. Are companies going to spend double this for separate consoles? No, they will just do a port over so pretty much most of the big games will look and feel exactly the same on both consoles.

Have you seen Resi 4 on the Cube? Seen it on the PS2? While I'm not pouring petrol on the fanboy fire by claiming the PS3 will be immensly more powerful than the 360, if there is a big difference in performance (by either console) then it will be reflected in the ports. There have been plenty of PC games over the years which had console ports that were severly beaten with the ugly stick. Developers like to make pretty games. If they can make one look a lot prettier on a certain platform, they will. It's not all that difficult to scale down the graphics for a less powerful platform, and certainly doesn't cost twice as much.

steviec

Regk, first you say nobody knows what the PS3 is like and anyone who says different is a fanboy, then you say it's very similar to the xbox 360, then you say the xbox 360 has better graphics. You also point out that the PS3 will be much more expensive than the xbox 360. Obviously due to those similar/inferior parts you say their using.

So your telling me something a year newer and far more expensive isn't going to be superior technologically? I can't think of any precedent for that in any area of computing before. It's exactly the same situation as the PS2 and xbox, reversed. And the difference was very obvious there. I'd be surprised if there isn't a noticeable difference in a lot of games. Not that it's important, the xbox was noticeably better looking than the PS2 and I still preferred the PS2 because it had better games and a nicer joypad. This time I doubt anything Sony will come up with based on the pictures I've seen will be as good as the wonderful new xbox 360 joypad, and Microsoft have enlisted a lot more developers particularly from Japan to support them.

But I'll agree not enough is known about the PS3, therefore there's no reason to claim it'll be crazily expensive and underpowered. It's out a year later, based on that information alone it should be more powerful. And that's without the amazing real time demos(a lot of people seem to focus on the pre-rendered stuff and ignore the equally amazing real time stuff that they've shown) and the performance figures(which are obviously designed to flatter, but microsoft just as happily fudge their numbers) and the praise from many many developers in interviews.

I'm buying an xbox 360, it's looking like a good console, but I have no reason to want the next new console to come out next year to not live up to it's potential as that will just mean less exciting games and it's bad for the whole industry.

monument

Laguna wrote:

PS3 which will be a mooted €750.

Back that up please.

Corben Dallas

"yes the psp cost €265 but this is similar to the core 360 package. to get the full workings from the psp you need to spend circa €500! The strong rumour is that the ps3 will be in the €600 region mark. The PS3 also has never been stated to be backward compatible, they said they are looking into it and everyone took that as gospel that it is. "

IregK
pls pls explain the "need to spend 500 to get yur PSP to full workings?????!"
Um what?

What are u spending €235 on? u get a 32meg memory stick with the Value pack and get everything u need in the box,headphones, case,etc. 1GB sticks can be got for €80 online?????

at least u get a memory unit with the PSP(skinny size) but with the XB360 Core pack u get NOTHING!!!!! no HD! not even a mem card!!!???? u knew this right? the Core system is a con, its not €300,its €300 plus €40-50-60 (whichever) MS charges for the mem card. U have no way of saving anything if u only but the Core 360.

Anybody buying the XB360 get the advanced/deluxe system!!!!!!!
u get a HD, Media remote, plus wireless pads(consider the pads and remote effectively free!!!) no brainer.

The backwards compatiblity issue with PS3 isnt confirmed, but this has been a cornerstone of the PS so u could expect that it will have it.

Peteee

Firstly "PS3 will be $300 to $400 at launch, according to Sony CEO"

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000717069111/

Secondly, I think the Xbox360 is a bit rushed, but only in timeline. The technology in it is fantastic (maybe not as good as ps3, but its not as if there will be a divide of ps2 Vs Xbox this time around), The launch game line up is rather strong, in comparison to other console launches (ps2 etc), But nothing spectacular (Granted, I havnt read anytrhing about Kameo yet, which looks cool)

Played a 360 on saturday (COD2, which looked precisly as it would on the PC, which is fine, cos its a cross platform title, would have liked to play PGR3, which looks lovely)

The best thing anyone had to say about it (This is random strangers coming up to the demo pod) was that 'The screen looks nice dosent it' (Lovely Samsung hi-def)

PS3 to wipe it (If only for MGS4)

steviec

So the speculation that Sony will massively overcharge was wrong? Who'd have thought! It's just like the PSP all over again. Nice timing to release info ike that. If they live up to what they say then it's even cheaper than I expected.

iregk

steviec wrote:

Regk, first you say nobody knows what the PS3 is like and anyone who says different is a fanboy, then you say it's very similar to the xbox 360, then you say the xbox 360 has better graphics. You also point out that the PS3 will be much more expensive than the xbox 360. Obviously due to those similar/inferior parts you say their using.

At the start of your post Stevie I was going to react strongly, however you did turn out to be rather subjective and made for a good point so fair play for a good solid argument.

However I did say nobody knows what the ps3 is like in so far as we have seen the 360, some have played it where as the ps3 is still in those terms a virtual device. Nobody has seen it or played it hence we have no idea what it is really like apart from what Sony tell us its like. Also I didn't say anyone who says different is a fanboi, I said lets talk normal for a minute without the fanboi stuff. If you say the ps3 rocks I'm not going to say your a fanboi, I'm going to say cool, where did you play it? If you haven't played or seen it I don't want to hear how good it is as we have no clue at all. When I say its similar to the 360 i mean technically, from what I have seen its similar. How does it play, is it better is it worse? I have no idea! Graphics wise schematics and figures I have seen the nvidia card lags behind the Ati in the import areas thats what I'm basing it on again thats an assumption on figures, not having really seen the graphics.

Finally I say the ps3 is more expensive, I didn't, I believe I said rumoured to be more expensive. Could well turn out to be cheaper! From what I have read that wasn't guess work and was from Sony sources the latest was very expensive, if anyone can give me info from Sony that says otherwise then cool I'll go with that.

CiDeRmAn

I guess the PS3 has one thing that may place it ahead of the 360 without believing the hype, that is the blu-ray drive, depending on what sort of media support this and whether they will make any difference to the average buyer is another thing, people are still enjoying DVDs as state of the art, are they really ready for all of this HighDef stuff? I think not, I reckon the hardware manufacturers of all types of players and media need a new cash cow now that DVDs and theie players are dirt cheap, profits need a premium product so that will be the Bluray/hdDvd systems and disks.
The PS3 could prove to be an affordable entry point into this world however, but the points for and against are moot as Iwill be buying all next gen machines regardless of whether or not they are state of the art or steam powered, as I guess most of you will too. As a matter of fact nintendo are shiftinh the focus away from these super-consoles with high-tech innards and producing an easy to program low def machine but with a highly innovative input mechanism, perhaps thats the way to go?
Forget the 360 being rushed, are Nintendo being to slow in releasing some video of gameplay on the Revolution?

steviec

CiDeRmAn wrote:

but the points for and against are moot as Iwill be buying all next gen machines regardless of whether or not they are state of the art or steam powered, as I guess most of you will too.

Very true. My PS2, Gamecube, DS, PSP and gaming PC are getting lonely so I've been scouring Dublin for a place to preorder the 360. I wish I'd prebooked earlier but I wanted to wait till I had the joypad in my hand, it's the one reason I never bought an xbox, just couldn't adjust my hands to it's bulky pad.

I've noticed Perfect Dark reviews are finally starting to pop up and their all very positive, which is a relief, the fact there was so little information about the game till now was worrying.

iregk

CiDeRmAn wrote:

I guess the PS3 has one thing that may place it ahead of the 360 without believing the hype, that is the blu-ray drive, depending on what sort of media support this and whether they will make any difference to the average buyer is another thing, people are still enjoying DVDs as state of the art, are they really ready for all of this HighDef stuff? I think not

I think the one thing that a lot of people may have overlooked is that the xbox will still carry the universally known dvd logo where as the ps3 will not. This can be a big plus as logo's and recognition do matter to people and maybe sony are trying too early to push dvd out of the market place. It could work and it could fail.

Also I agree with the Ninty comment. I will be getting a 360 because it is what I want, the central media center. The PS3 for example will not be able to play mp3's, dvdrw's or display jpeg discs. I run my current xbox (chipped) as a media center and will be doing the same with the 360 the PS3 does not offer me that. However I do see these as not really next gen consoles, I see them as bigger badder versions of the current gen. The Revolution is the only one that I truely see as next gen. Due to its new ideas and directions with game play.

projectmayhem

iregk wrote:

I think the one thing that a lot of people may have overlooked is that the xbox will still carry the universally known dvd logo where as the ps3 will not. This can be a big plus as logo's and recognition do matter to people and maybe sony are trying too early to push dvd out of the market place. It could work and it could fail.

sony have said ps3 will run dvd, dvd-r, dvd-rw... so i assume it'll have to have the little logo. and i dunno where you're getting this "logo recognition" from. you can't even see the bloody logo on the xbox or ps2...

iregk wrote:

The PS3 for example will not be able to play mp3's, dvdrw's or display jpeg discs.

see above, and ps3 will play mp3's (it's just a question of wether it comes with or without a hd)

iregk wrote:

However I do see these as not really next gen consoles, I see them as bigger badder versions of the current gen. The Revolution is the only one that I truely see as next gen. Due to its new ideas and directions with game play.

was the ps2 next gen? was the gamecube next gen?

Gummy Panda

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

perhaps you should give the 2nd page too
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3145154

Bastard never emailed me that part!!

iregk

projectmayhem wrote:

see above, and ps3 will play mp3's (it's just a question of wether it comes with or without a hd)

Sony have never actually said the ps3 will play mp3 and it only plays dvd-r not dvd-rw.

projectmayhem wrote:

was the ps2 next gen? was the gamecube next gen?

I'd class the ps2 and cube next gen yes as they were very different machines from what went before them, also we had the addition of another player. The current offering (ps3 and 360) are same again with more umph. Only the rev in my opinion is truely taking a risk and being next generation of gaming.

Hyzepher

Couple of things to note.

No one has talked about online offerings. I think MS has won this battle hands down with the current-gen machines. The 360 launch will add millions of subscribers to the service as they bacically get it free with the purchase. This a full 6 months before the 'expected' release of the PS3. Online will play a huge part of the success of the next-gen.

The price of the 360 - €410 - is actually brilliant value for money. Console + HD + Wireless controller + Gold subscription etc. Better value on launch day for any console has never been seen before.

Sony have stated that the PS3 will not have an internal HD and the will come as an optional extra. This is following MS strategy of having a 'budget' machine to have as low an entry point as possible regarding price. The $300 - $400 entry point released by Sony reflects this, imo.

The discussions over DVD Vs Blu-ray is a moot point imo. Sony are taking a serious gamble on Blu-ray - it's no where near a recognised format (not even produced yet) and when it does take off, if it does, we might be a few years down the road and talking about the next next-gen machines. I think this is an unnecessary risk for Sony - especially when including one will increase the cost of the console.

Sony have stated that they will be selling the PS3 at a loss until production costs - specially with the inclusion of the Blu-ray. MS are selling the 360 at cost. This may not seem a big issue for companies as large as MS or Sony but it will have an effect on the speed at which the console can be discounted. Expect the 360 to cost 50% of the PS3 at the PS3 launch.

Sony have put a Q4 release date on the PS3. Many anlaysts have predicted that Sony will not follow MS worldwide release - mainly due to production difficulties and having to maintain a PSP stream. Therefore, Sony are likely to introduce the console into Japan, then USA and then Europe. So a Xmas 2006 European release looks a bit dodgy. If that's the case then, for us here in Europe, the 360 will have quite a hold on the market and a full 12 months development time ahead of Sony - 12 mnts is a lifetime in the games world.

imo, the 360 and the PS3 will be much closer in performance than any other console race previously. With the way developers are doing business these days there won't be too many exclusive titles that dont make it across platforms and therefore MS early release is a huge, huge advantage this time around. And Sony know it!

edit - looks like the proposed costing of the PS3 at $300 - $400 is premature - http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61856

Hyzepher

iregk

Very good post Hyzepher. I agree with you on pretty much everything.

kaimera

a few teething problems with the 360 > overheating issues

still tho, suppose every initial launch can't be 100% perfect.

Corben Dallas

"Expect the 360 to cost 50% of the PS3 at the PS3 launch."

good post Hzpher cept for the above and the 2006 xmas Euro launch, if Sony can do it at all they will def be aiming for a 3rd quarter 06 Euro launch Sept/Oct methinks.

the 50% cost is a bit wide if teh mark. the basic (no HD model) 360 costs €300 now, no doubt in a years time (prob to coincide exactly with the PS3 launch date) MS will do a price drop on the 360.

But if we know that Sony wont inculde a HD as part of the basic package, just like MS, they will do Core/bare essentials pack and maybe a seperate HD bonus pack as well. The 'basic' PS3 will be priced arround the €400/450 mark(IMO) so the Core XB360 would have to be cut to 250/225 to be 50% the cost. (roughly what PS2/XB's cost now..after bout 4 price drops(roughly)) Cant see this happening.

Plus the PS3 will be roughly twice as powerful anyways!! so there