Average lifespan of a car

BrianD3

Anyone have any figures for the average lifespan of a car in Ireland. i.e. how long it lasts before going to the scrapyard. I have a figure for the UK which puts the average there at 13.95 years with the majority of cars being scrapped between 13 and 17 years. Over here I'd imagine that cars tend to be scrapped slightly earlier due to a number of factors, I have a few in mind but would like to hear what others think first.

Of course there are many factors that influence lifespan. The make of car will be a big factor but not just the car itself. The type of person that would tend to buy a particular sort of car - how do they drive it, how do they maintain it, what sort of mileage do they do etc.

Depreciation is another - a car which depreciates heavily may become uneconomic to keep on the road quicker than one which deprciates slowly.

Special factors - certain makes of cars may be especially popular and less lilely to be scrapped eg early nineties Civics still very popular among boy racers, Mk3 Fiestas and Toyota Starlets among learner drivers. Not saying that Toyotas and Hondas woudn't last a long time anyway but they get an extra boost from this popularity.

mike65

13.95 years, what 13 years and 51 weeks?

Thats a few years higher than I would have said, I would suppose that average car (whatever that is) has a longer life than say 20 years ago with improvments in corrosion protection. Though it must be said that with the proliferation of expensive/complex hi-teckery cars will be scrapped even when the body is perfectly decent.

Here I imagine a mix of lousy roads and less vigilant mantainence means cars are in a poorer condititon earlier but does that mean they get scrapped sooner? I say that ignoring the effect of the scrappage scheme which was a passing phenomenon.

Mike.

maidhc

Having had a Mk1 Mondeo from new (1995... I couldnt drive then, it was my mothers, handed down at 3yrs), i have watched the cars for years, from when they were all shiny, to being wrecked, to dissappearing fast.

I would think the average scrappage age in Ireland is closer to 10yrs. You really wouldnt see than many "old" cars apart from Mercedes 190's and 123/124s.

I know most of the Mk1 Mondeos (93-96) are dissappearing off the roads, and when I once put a wanted ad on the buy and sell for a scrap one I got a flood of calls. Interestingly most of the cars were running fine, but people had upgraded.

In Ireland many of the Mondeo sized cars become taxis or second cars after about 4 years, where they promptly get destroyed. I know many mondeo/carinas fell into the hands of farmers, where they tend to get maltreated and die before their time.

The cost of tax and maintenance often puts cars off the road too, moreso than depreciation i'd imagine. i.e. Safranes, Granadas, and similar barges

bazz26

As mentioned it depends on the make of car and how it was treated.

For example my father bought a brand new Carina II in 1992, he had it 4 years and then traded it. A collegue of his bought it straight away from the garage and he still has it to this day. Granted it has about 250k on the clock, looks a bit jaded and is worth nothing as a trade-in but it recently passed the NCT so he is keeping it until it dies.

The other side of the coin is that I have seen 3 or 4 year old cars that look to have had a very hard life and see them in the scrap yard well before they are 10 years old.

You still see alot of late 1980s or early 1990s Mercs/Volvos going around also with huge mileage. I recently saw a 1988 Nissan Bluebird in front of me and have noticed quite a few late 1980s Starlets and Fiestas still going strong. I have even seen a few Sierras still knocking about the place.

mike65

Having had a Mk1 Mondeo from new (1995... I couldnt drive then, it was my mothers, handed down at 3yrs), i have watched the cars for years, from when they were all shiny, to being wrecked, to dissappearing fast

Early Mondeos age badly looking shabby with faded paint (does yours has cracked/split bumpers?), Mercs of the 201/123/124 era just go on and on, I think owners get somewhat attatched to them and ppl buy em reckoning they'll last forever.

Mike.

BrianD3

maidhc wrote:

I would think the average scrappage age in Ireland is closer to 10yrs. You really wouldnt see than many "old" cars apart from Mercedes 190's and 123/124s.

Also plenty of Mk2 Jettas/Golfs and AE90 Corollas. Some AE80s too.

Popularity is obviously going to affect how many survivors of a particular car there is. Loads more AE90 Corollas sold here than say Fiat Tipos so more survivors. If there had been equal number sold I wonder what the story would be. Corolla, mechanically great but more likely to suffer structural rust than a Tipo.

As for Mondeos, at least the Mondeo was well protected against rust. Ford must have been the last manufacturer to take rust proofing seriously. Even the Mk3 Fiesta and Mk5 Escort which were introduced around 1989-1990 proved to be bad rusters. The earlier Sierras and 80s Escorts were even worse.

When was the last time anyone saw a Citroen BX. There seemed to be loads of these one minute and then suddenly they just vanished IMO with certain cars people just get scared off when certain problems occur. Eg A small problem with the suspension the BX and it gets scrapped. A blown engine on a VW Jetta - problem appears straightforward to the owner so the car gets a recon engine. Even though it's a more expensive fix than the fix on the BX.

mike65

An an ex-BX' er I keep an eye out for them, but as you suggest they've nearly all gone, just the odd sighting. It happened very quickly and one can't blame rust as so much was fancy plastic!

Mike.

maidhc

mike65 wrote:

Early Mondeos age badly looking shabby with faded paint (does yours has cracked/split bumpers?), Mercs of the 201/123/124 era just go on and on, I think owners get somewhat attatched to them and ppl buy em reckoning they'll last forever.

Mike.

Had to replace the rear bumper because of that issue, they are a complete joke for cracking. Paint doesnt stick very well to the plastic bumpers either. True about they aging badly, although the paint is good on mine, it seems to pick up little dents (from doors in supermarkets etc) very easily. They dont rust, at all.

Was in Tenerife recently and couldnt believe the number of Merc 124 taxis with insane mileage, and they were driven easily either. Interestingly a lot of the new taxis were non-mercedes (Avensis, Octavia, or 406 estates).

I think though the life of cars is far longer now than it was. I can even remember when it was a big occasion for a car to hit 100k, it isnt now.

bazz26

BrianD3 wrote:

Also plenty of Mk2 Jettas/Golfs and AE90 Corollas. Some AE80s too.

Popularity is obviously going to affect how many survivors of a particular car there is. Loads more AE90 Corollas sold here than say Fiat Tipos so more survivors. If there had been equal number sold I wonder what the story would be. Corolla, mechanically great but more likely to suffer structural rust than a Tipo.

As for Mondeos, at least the Mondeo was well protected against rust. Ford must have been the last manufacturer to take rust proofing seriously. Even the Mk3 Fiesta and Mk5 Escort which were introduced around 1989-1990 proved to be bad rusters. The earlier Sierras and 80s Escorts were even worse.

When was the last time anyone saw a Citroen BX. There seemed to be loads of these one minute and then suddenly they just vanished IMO with certain cars people just get scared off when certain problems occur. Eg A small problem with the suspension the BX and it gets scrapped. A blown engine on a VW Jetta - problem appears straightforward to the owner so the car gets a recon engine. Even though it's a more expensive fix than the fix on the BX.

I think the Tipo was one of the first cars in it's class to have a galvanized steel body so not many would have rusted. Also while generally the hydraulic suspension on the BX and other Citroens was reliable if there was a serious problem with it then it may have cost a small fortune to put right and may not have made economical sense to keep the car on the road. Saying that I think most BXs on the scrap heap probably still had their suspension working fine, I think they generally just didn't wear very well with age.

BrianD3

Quite an interesting discussion. It's not even just about the cars themselves, it's a cultural thing too. Massive changes in this country in the last 10 or 20 years. Celtic Tiger, immigration, house prices, commuting, better roads, the NCT etc.

If, in 1985 someone said that they were going to live in somewhere like Cavan and commute 70 miles to work in Dublin people would think they'd gone insane Nowadays, big commutes are a common part of irish life. Result: lots of cars on the road doing big mileages.

Then there's immigrants coming in from eastern europe and bringing their cars with them. The other day i saw a LT reg pre 87 (jellymould) Sierra. Very unusual car on an Irish road these days.

Celtic Tiger and consumerism, low interest rates etc. - people decide that they want a brand new car RIGHT NOW. Cars more than 3 years old are seen as "old hat".

This is probably going off slightly topic but I think it all ties in to the original post about lifespan of cars and how many older cars are left on the road.

Greenman

On my trips to the ROI I find it very difficult to see an old car!!! Most seem less than 5 years old.When the NCT came in I think Irish people were scared into thinking their cars would not pass and got rid of them.
Here in Belgium you see lots of cars circa 1995 and older.
I myself drive a 1990 Opel Vectra 1.7D and every year at the NCT get a revisit notice with something to attend to ,so far only small things.
I think in the ROI they're is a lot of snobbery to do with cars and a lot of money floating around. I would never buy a new car and will drive the Vectra till it dies and goes to Africa!!!

Volvoboy

the main reason i think that cars are being scrapped before thier time is in their building, most cars have too many extras, sat nav, hydro sus, on board computers and so on, so when they all break the costs of repair outweigh the costs of keeping the car for another year so the owner will sell it on at a loss, the car will then be salvaged.

so a little '92 starlet will have less to go wrong with it rather than a '05 745i that will have more computers in the drivers seat than the engine loom of the starlets engine bay.

maidhc

Greenman wrote:

On my trips to the ROI I find it very difficult to see an old car!!!

Absolutely, my car is often the oldest in a carpark, which is quite unbelieveable. At least it means no one in their sane senses will steal it.

Snobbery probably has a part to play. I know my younger sisters are always badgering my parents about buying a "lexus" or a "jag", because their friends have that sort of machinery. Their present (02) avensis is a "banger".

The NCT is overhyped too I think. I have never heard of a well kept car failing in a way that costs big money to put right. Labour and parts force people to retire a wreck alright, but it is hard to feel any sympathy there.

Your roads in Belgiums should not be forgotton though as a factor contributing to the longevity of the cars.

HashSlinging

I have been asking myself that for a while now, cars should last a long time(15 years). no reason why they shouldnt if looked after correct. Im talking about the high-end of the market. Dont mercedes do a lifetime world-wide warranty or is it 10 years or something. I think if you wanted a car to last 10 - 15 years you would have to invest in something high-end. Spend about 50k or 60k at least.

HashSlinging

Volvoboy wrote:

the main reason i think that cars are being scrapped before thier time is in their building, most cars have too many extras, sat nav, hydro sus, on board computers and so on, so when they all break the costs of repair outweigh the costs of keeping the car for another year so the owner will sell it on at a loss, the car will then be salvaged.

so a little '92 starlet will have less to go wrong with it rather than a '05 745i that will have more computers in the drivers seat than the engine loom of the starlets engine bay.

excellent post, the reality is we only need to get from A to B.

Greenman

maidhc wrote:

Your roads in Belgiums should not be forgotton though as a factor contributing to the longevity of the cars.

We have good roads here but bad ones too, lots of the Belgian cities have lots of cobbled roads, I'm sure they are not ideal if driven on everyday!!!

Volvoboy wrote:

the main reason i think that cars are being scrapped before thier time is in their building, most cars have too many extras, sat nav, hydro sus, on board computers and so on, so when they all break the costs of repair outweigh the costs of keeping the car for another year so the owner will sell it on at a loss, the car will then be salvaged.

so a little '92 starlet will have less to go wrong with it rather than a '05 745i that will have more computers in the drivers seat than the engine loom of the starlets engine bay.

As I said I'll drive the Vectra till it dies and then its an old Merc diesel, hopefully one without any computer stuff, and everything manual including the windows.
I travel to Morocco alot and all the inter town taxis are Merc 240D's circa 1975, I think they are the old taxi fleet from Germany. Those things go and go and don't tell me the roads are good in Morocco!!!

maidhc

HashSlinging wrote:

I have been asking myself that for a while now, cars should last a long time(15 years). no reason why they shouldnt if looked after correct. Im talking about the high-end of the market. Dont mercedes do a lifetime world-wide warranty or is it 10 years or something. I think if you wanted a car to last 10 - 15 years you would have to invest in something high-end. Spend about 50k or 60k at least.

I dont think you would be wise in investing in a new Merc with visions of it lasting like the old generation. Also, as you spend more you tend to get more toys. I dont think there is any "Leica" of the automobile industry.

Incidently if you look at agricultural tractors you will find the lifespan is about 30 years (in Ireland) and about another 30 after being exported to africa. We have a 1979 Ford 4600 in the workshop at the minute awaiting a reconditioned engine, while we also have a 1981 model that is used daily. It will be interesting to see in 30 years time if the current crop of machines with will be as servicable.

TempestSabre

No point trying to fix expensive electric or engine problems these days. As parts, labour are so expensive, you'd buy a fully working car with an NCT for 1000-2000 and probably a good few years younger than the one you are trying to fix. Any car I've had over 100k started to have minor electric problems and the like. When you start spending 1k a year on misc repairs to keep an old car on the road, you'd want to love it to keep it. If its an old classic or sports car thats fair enough, but if its a ratty old fiesta or citroen you'd be mad.

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

No point trying to fix expensive electric or engine problems these days. As parts, labour are so expensive, you'd buy a fully working car with an NCT for 1000-2000 and probably a good few years younger than the one you are trying to fix. Any car I've had over 100k started to have minor electric problems and the like. When you start spending 1k a year on misc repairs to keep an old car on the road, you'd want to love it to keep it. If its an old classic or sports car thats fair enough, but if its a ratty old fiesta or citroen you'd be mad.

Alot of training mechanics would love the opportunity to get them cars of your hands instead of them going to the scrap yard. That's what happened to my family's old Micra, it was crashed and worth less than the repair cost, sold it to a training mechanic and he fixed it and put it on the road for himself

t5pwr

I have a 10 year old Volvo 850, soon to be 11 years. It has over 177k miles on the clock and it is still running in perfect condition and still looks good.

My Dad owned it originally as a company car, then onto my Mum and then onto me. I was only too happy to get it.

It has a very good service history. For some cars if you take care of them they will go for a very long time.

I was talking to a mechanic who specialises in servicing SAAB and he said that he has seen plenty of SAAB's with 500k miles and over on them.

Bottom line. If you take care of it and it's a good car it will last a long time

I hope to have mine for a long while yet...

00so

Alfa 156 - 3 years if you are lucky!

prospect

00so wrote:

Alfa 156 - 3 years if you are lucky!

WELCOME TO BOARDS.
You'l do well here with that kinda attitude.

knifey_spoonie

I know of one 86 starlet which starts every time on the button and has never had any major work done its got about 300,000 on the clock

One car that will always go is the XLI corolla, the only thing that ever went wrong was the oil seals hardened and it burnt a bit of oil

zilog_jones

Yeah, those AE90 (late 80s/early 90s) Corollas just don't want to die - and what you said there seems to be the only problem I've ever heard of with them. My uncle had a '91 one for about 7 years - it was leaking oil for a while but that was fixed easily. Now my grandad has it - got it resprayed (the red was starting to go pink in parts) and it's still going fine after about 140,000 miles!

My other uncle also used an '89 Merc E300 diesel as taxi for a while - got it off some farmer in a bit of a state, but after a valet it was actually pretty decent inside. The odometer was broken at about 350k miles when he got it ^_^

Also, one of my classmates has a '82 Mk. I Fiesta - it's older than him!