Arrg!! The abortion 'debate'.

Syth

I am very frustrated by the abortion 'debate'. Regardless of one's opinion on abortion, I think most skeptics find the 'debate' is ridiculus. The arguments used on either side are irrational.

For example:

Common pro-abortion argument: Abortions happen anyway, so they should be safe and legal.
Murder happens. Rape happens. Theft happens. Corruption happens. That doesn't mean they should be legal

Common anti-abortion argument: After conception, there is the possibility of for it to become life, so it should be treated as life
When it's possible to clone a human from any cell taken from a human, then this argument will apply to every hair and skin cell from a living human. Everytime you cut your hair you're killing thousands of potential babies!!!1!one

I also find the prolife/prochoice label ridiculus

pH

Hopefuly as technology advances this will become less of an issue, and the whole pointless debate will go away. Clearly an unfertilised egg and sperm are not human life, and a bit of dna unwinding and cell replication to make a clump of 2 cells is not a human, but from here it's a continous process to a child which clearly is. We can have countless arguments from many positions about where in that process you can draw.

Abortion is not something anyone in their right mind wants. Everyone who has an abortion would prefer to have not gotten pregnant in the first place. No one gets pregnant to have an abortion. If though better education and contaception unwanted pregancies can be reduced to zero this only will leave termination for medical reasons. So let's concentrate on having no unwanted pregnacies and forget about abortion.

defiantshrimp

pH wrote:

If though better education and contraception unwanted pregnancies can be reduced to zero this only will leave termination for medical reasons. So let's concentrate on having no unwanted pregnancies and forget about abortion.

But sadly it is impossible to reduce unwanted pregnancies to zero. No method of contraception works all the time. Also circumstances change, what was a planned pregnancy can become a burden during the course of 9 months. Abortion will always be an issue and sidestepping the issue with wishful thinking is not the way forward.

pH

But sadly it is impossible to reduce unwanted pregnancies to zero. No method of contraception works all the time.

I think you're being overly pessimistic. Imagine a science fiction scenario where a woman (and perhaps a man too) could have an injection/implant at puberty that in effect makes them infertile. Imagine that it's safe and completely reversible.
Now maybe this technology is a little bit off, but I certainly don't think it's unachievable in the next decade or so.

It would make unplanned pregnacy a thing of the past, only those who want children should get pregnant. I'm sure that the number changing their mind later in pregnancy is a small compared to unwanted pregnacies.

I still think that sidesteping the debate and focusing on the root problem (being pregnant when you don't want to be) is a far more productive approach.

gerrycollins

in terms of the law and i know there are complications etc a question i put to my parents when the "first vote" was done im young was and still is to this day can we not have a democratic vote of the population two simple questions
1 make abortions legal
2 make abortions illegal
both with exceptions and i know these will have to be worked hard on but
i know this still raises issues about the health of the mother both physically and mentally and that of the unborn child but we can worry about the small print later no bull about information on travel etc just a plain and simple quetion(i wish)anyone agree?

let both sides argue their points and just like another vote the majority say is final,it is a demoracry after all if the losers dont like it well tough ye didnt do a good enough job of explaining urselves.there is always the proecss

i hope i made some sense im just sick of both sides mouthing off at each other etc and the if's and but's and all this and that

personally im anti abortion

pH

let both sides argue their points and just like another vote the majority say is final,it is a demoracry after all if the losers dont like it well tough ye didnt do a good enough job of explaining urselves.there is always the proecss

Well that's not quite how a democracy works, majority rule is not a good way to make laws, people have rights that supercede the wishes of even a majority. Let me pick an extreme example - if the majority protestant population in the North decided that catholics had no rights and could be treated as slaves, put it to a vote and it was carried 51% to 49% then that would make it ok? You'd think that was fine and go along with it? Of course not - we'd all be talking about 'rights'!

Whether 60% of the public believes this or that, of 55% prefers X rather than Y should never override basic human rights. As to what those rights are - the 'right' to life or the 'right' to choose we're back to the futile abortion debate which is probaly best conducted elsewhere, suffice to say what a majority think has little to do with it.

gerrycollins

well with all due respect a vote of what u use as an example would never come to the fore and majority rule is used eg for all the EC treaties(not that we ever understood a word about them ie Nice)and i accecpt its an extreme example u use and those "human rights" u refer to and the "right" is something that can be included in the vote as i said the small print needs to be worked on.

not everyone is happy with mr Bush in the good old US of A and i accecpt the college electoral vote system but the majority voted him back in and that is not what the minority wanted???even with yes and no the difference was only a few hundred very close if i remember!

as per the vote on laws by the population if the choices are explained properly and clearly in plain english(i think some of them contain too many if's and but's) i think IMO that the population would vote reasonably and with care.

im sure that any and would like to c any proposals to inclued these basic human rights u refer to
what do u refer to peoples rights that superceed law?nobody is above the law
pps im anti abortion personally but i think it should be legalised for ppl to make their own choice with councelling(some barrier to just walking in and doin it)
do i take it u are pro abortion with ur ref to basic human rights?
either way to ur preferance i still think we should just vote on it and make it final once and for all