about to build a HTPC

Fallschirmjager

Experts, lend me your ears,

flush with the success of a home built game pc, i am keen to scour your brains for some recommendations.

here is what i would like to do. i have B&W speakers (5.1 setup) and a pioneer amp and a excellent primare dvd player. i am looking, (depending on what ye think and if recommended) to replace a lot of this kit with simpler and more flexible htpc setup. this is all setup with a sony projector and bog standard widescreen tv for sky.

here is a rough outline of what i am planning to buy for the htpc to future proof it also (as much as you can today)
thermaltake mystic case, 2 gb ram, 500mb sata drive, nvidia 7800 gtx 256mb gr card, creative sound card (the 7.1 high end one), the hauupage 500 tv card, abit mobo (prob the fatality one) and a dual core amd chip (again open to suggestions). i will be building this, depending on me cash flow...also it will more then likely use the dreaded microsoft media centre software. some type of quiet cooling...as yet to be decided..

i know i can run the htpc sound thru the amp but i am looking to move to a pc speaker setup if possible, basically because it will be far cheaper in the long run to move from 5.1 to 7.1 to whatever else the film industry dictates...

so i have 2 questions.

1. are there any pc speakers that are good enough for a medium size room. now i know they are cool for games, but i am looking at ones that are good for movies and then music. no i am not some anal retentive audiophile, but i do like good sound on a movie.

2. anything on the above htpc setup you would recommend i add or change (please try avoid the usual thermaltake versus abc or amd versus intel arguements, unless you know what i have chosen is a bit of a pile of poo)

3. i am looking to convert some of my favourite movies to the disk. any recommended software for that??


remember, i am choosing dual core because i dont want to keep fiddling about in the future.

i would love a flat screen, but i dont have the money for it...

thanks for your suggestions...

Khannie

Massive overkill for a HTPC.

Dual core probably wont benefit you that much if you have a hardware mpeg encoder like the 500. Also, that graphics card is /MASSIVE/ overkill for a HTPC which generally doesn't do anything very graphically intensive. Even a 6600GT would be overkill unless you intend playing 3D games on it. Probably too much RAM too tbh.

Hope I didn't ruin your buzz.

One of the key things to keep low with a HTPC is heat, that way you don't have too much noise in a noise sensetive environment (i.e. the living room). High end components all churn out lots of heat.

MrPinK

Fallschirmjager wrote:

3. i am looking to convert some of my favourite movies to the disk. any recommended software for that??

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/autogk.htm
Here is where the dual core chip will come in very handy. I just finished ripping all my DVD's to xvid on an XP1900+ and it took forever.

I agree with Khannie on the gfx card though, it really will be wasted. A cheap and cheerful card will perform just as well. A HTPC doesn't need a high end gfx cards. All it'll do is eat lots of power and make lots of noise.

secret_squirrel

Overkill on the sound card as well tbh. Creative dont have that good a reputation for 5.1/7.1 output. Plus you would be binning a decent amp and and replacing it with a crappy one in some naff pc speakers (ok you can get good ones, but I would be surprised if they beat your B&W ones.)

Personally bin the sound card. Get a 7.1 motherboard with digital out and plug that into your existing amp and speakers.

use the money saved on soundcard, gfx, ram, to upgrade your hifi components. eg new 7.1 speakers like kef's, MS Genies or Mission cubes.

Or a big LCD!!!

Remember very few sets of pc speakers are going to have the quality of transformers and amp stages of your pioneer.

(PS Im running a 2500 athlon MCE machine into Sony amp and mission speakers - even high end media pc components arent going to get near to good HiFi components.)

Fallschirmjager

dudes,

really appreciate it, i had assumed i would need a gr card to drive a future lcd but obviously my ignorance shines thru!

bugger, double bugger on the speakers tho, i was really hoping i could get rid of the wiring jungle i have behind the tv...

mr pink, thanks for the rip info...

anyways, thanks, guess i can hold onto me spons and invest in the lcd instead...

Fallschirmjager

one final thing : are creative that poor..?? any recommendations on a sound card generally?

i assume you are talking digital out on the card to the back of the amp?

pH

Keep things low power and quiet - for graphics card get a passive cooled 9250 or 6200, get an Antec fanless powersupply, and get an ultra-low noise cpu cooler. Probaly only need one 120mm fan on your case (with control) to suck the air out.

None of the PC soundcards are an amplifier, and none will do as good a job as a real Home Cinema amp at decoding Dobly and DTS, so buy a motherboard with optical or coax digital out and feed your amp.

Fallschirmjager

ph,

what mobo would you recommend, any suggstions?

i assume we are still on amd here because of the heat or am i wrong in that also..

pH

It's expensive and you don't need the SLI but ...

http://www.asus.com.tw/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=539&modelmenu=1

For a man considering a 7800GTX it can't be too expensive

Another option for a HTPC is the micro-ATX size case and MBs, giving you somethign that looks far more like a consumer device than a PC.

Although, seeing you're saving a small fortune on not buying a 7800, you can spend it on this! http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309498

On the chip front, I'd stay AMD 939, there's not a lot to be gained by dropping to a 754. No real need to go any higher than a 3500 I would say, and it gives you the option of a dual core if you really want one. Given you aren't running a huge graphics card, a 450watt fanless PS would handle a 4200+ or 4400+.

Fallschirmjager

pH wrote:

It's expensive and you don't need the SLI but ...

http://www.asus.com.tw/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=539&modelmenu=1

For a man considering a 7800GTX it can't be too expensive

Another option for a HTPC is the micro-ATX size case and MBs, giving you somethign that looks far more like a consumer device than a PC.

Although, seeing you're saving a small fortune on not buying a 7800, you can spend it on this! http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309498

On the chip front, I'd stay AMD 939, there's not a lot to be gained by dropping to a 754. No real need to go any higher than a 3500 I would say, and it gives you the option of a dual core if you really want one. Given you aren't running a huge graphics card, a 450watt fanless PS would handle a 4200+ or 4400+.

hahahha...good one..and thanks -- i actually saw that on komplett but i rekon you would have a squint like a pervert in a porn factory trying to see the screen. i did think of a 15 inch lcd with a touch panel (nothing too fancy). the touch panel was only 100 dollars on a US website.

Fallschirmjager

pH wrote:

It's expensive and you don't need the SLI but ...

http://www.asus.com.tw/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=539&modelmenu=1

For a man considering a 7800GTX it can't be too expensive

Another option for a HTPC is the micro-ATX size case and MBs, giving you somethign that looks far more like a consumer device than a PC.

Although, seeing you're saving a small fortune on not buying a 7800, you can spend it on this! http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=309498

On the chip front, I'd stay AMD 939, there's not a lot to be gained by dropping to a 754. No real need to go any higher than a 3500 I would say, and it gives you the option of a dual core if you really want one. Given you aren't running a huge graphics card, a 450watt fanless PS would handle a 4200+ or 4400+.

jeeze dude i am kinda sorry i bought my abit board looking at that..a cool mobo indeed..

netman

I was thinking of starting a project like this and might save you some trouble. Personally I opted to wait a little bit longer, there are some interesting things for HTPC coming out soon.

But a few comments first:
Future proofing - spending loads more today for something that will be replaced by a cheaper, better product in the future. It's a fool's errand, instead of going for the most expensive kit today, I'd go for what suits my needs and make sure it's upgradeable in the future. That way you get everything you want without paying through the nose.

The components you're looking to put together produce a huge amount of heat, and that needs to be dumped somewhere. If you're happy with an airplane engine buzzing in your living room then there's no problem, otherwise be very careful about your choice of components.

1. For speakers, I hear Logitech Z680 are good. THX certified.
Some reviewers mention that getting good quality cables for them improves sound even more.

2. Erm.. nearly everything

Case: I'd go for mCubed HFX personally. For me, silence is golden. You'll need a power supply for it, as the case doesn't come with one. Silverstone has a 300W fanless model (NightJar).

As an alternative, Silverstone Lascala LC-11M looks promising but needs modding to quiet it down.

RAM: Don't know what you plan to do on the HTPC that requires 2GB. 512MB is probably enough for most things (watching video, recording, playing mp3s, browsing the web). If you're going to play Doom III or Quake IV etc then I can see sense in putting 1GB.

Sound card: Just get a motherboard with digital out, be it optical or coax, and feed that into the amp. No need to waste money.

Graphics card: Personally, I'd avoid using one. If you have to, get one with silent cooling, like the Gigabyte 6600GT Silent Pipe. It also has component outputs for HDTV.

TV card: It's great, I just wanted to check if you're aware that you'll still need your Sky Digibox to watch TV. This card won't decode the Sky feed.

Motherboard/CPU: Largely depends on what you want. Personally, I'd want quiet and performance and I see three choices:

a) AOpen i915GMm-HFS + Intel Pentium M
Tried and proven, low power consumption, low heat output.
The onboard graphics isn't DirectX 9 compatibile and you're pretty much maxing out the CPU when playing HD content, reviewers reported some lost frames. Easily solved by getting a dedicated graphics card but that increases cost and power output. No standard coolers will fit, but mCubed have a heatpipe that fits this board.

b) ATi XPress 200 board + AMD Turion64
DirectX 9 compatibile onboard graphics, better performance on the GPU and CPU, low power consumption comparable to Pentium M. No issues with HD content. Hard to get a Turion CPU and it's Socket 754 only.
Also standard S754 coolers might not fit because the CPU lacks the heatspreader. Zalman comes to the rescue with height adjustable coolers like the 7000 series and 7700 series. It should keep the CPU cool with the lowest setting. (Only 28W thermal dissipation on lower specced Turions, 35W on higher specced ones)

c) nVidia 6150 + AMD Venice
Not out yet, but looks very promising. Excellent onboard graphics (similar to Geforce 6600) , DirectX 9 compatibile, HDTV etc. Socket 939, so no Turion support, but it's more future proof. AMD Cool&Quiet with Zalman 7x00 series should keep it nice and quiet.
Also Semprons should be out for S939 soon and might be worth taking a look. (ie. should require less power and dump less heat)
This is my choice for HTPC but I'm waiting for the boards to come out and for the initial feedback. There's speculation that there are issues with the nVidia chipset and that the first batch of boards had to be pulled out right before the launch.

Other stuff:
You might want to look at a VFD for your case. iMon ones are quite popular, and both of the cases I mention come in a version with a prefitted iMon VFD and an iMon PAD remote. (compatibile with XP MCE)

If all of this is too much, you might want to consider getting a complete solution. Shuttle have a HTPC coming out soon, and Hush make some amazing HTPCs.

Khannie

MrPinK wrote:

Here is where the dual core chip will come in very handy. I just finished ripping all my DVD's to xvid on an XP1900+ and it took forever.

Is autogk threaded? If not, a fast single core would be better. The main advantage that dual core processors have at the moment is that they allow you to press on with other things in comfort while your computer processes (for example an xvid conversion).

pH

The key thing here is *at the moment*, as dual cores have started shipping it will only be a matter of time 'til media decoders/rippers/postprocessing build multi-threaded-goodness into the code. I'd be suprised if codecs don't exist within 6 months that take advantage of dual core in media encoding/playback situations.

MrPinK

Khannie wrote:

Is autogk threaded? If not, a fast single core would be better. The main advantage that dual core processors have at the moment is that they allow you to press on with other things in comfort while your computer processes (for example an xvid conversion).

I'm not sure about AutoGK itself, but the real work is done by VirtualDub (which is threaded) and the divx/xvid codec. There are codecs available that are heavily optimized for SMP, like the DivX He-3. Admittedly, a lot of them tend to be betas, but encoding is one area with lots of parallelism and dual-core really has the potential to shine.

Fallschirmjager

well cool bananas to all who answered,

i think i have a lot to digest here. i think at this stage my trusty amp and speakers will have to reside in my abode a bit longer.

netman: thanks for the responses, i truly appreciate it. yes i had sussed the sky box issue (well, i hadnt but a lot of reading both here and on avforums old threads over the last few weeks gave a lot of info) but thanks for the heads up. i think i read on the sky site a load of info on next years changes and emailed them on whats what, but i have no reply as yet.

i may give the THX speakers a peek and see what they sound like on me current rig. i did check out hush but i am in a peculiar situation (well maybe not that peculiar) that i dont want to dick about with the rig every time i want to watch a movie but i do want to dick about with it as i add more disk or meet the issues that PH raised here. so its a case of me trying to dick less or dick more depending on the situation :rolleyes: if you get my drift... (perhaps not the best choice of words there)

i think i have pretty much settled on PH's recommended mobo (its got pretty much everything), i think i will still stick with a gig of ram, namely because i am betting microsoft will no doubt release some humungous memory intensive yoke at some stage and i dont want to be hunting for memory at that stage.

i am assuming the hauppage 500 card is something most are agreed on (unless someone wants to decloak with a horror story) again in anticipation of a sky boxtop change

i think the cheaper (compared to the dual core) amd processor 3200 or 3500 is best for the short to medium term but either way the mobo supports dual c so i dont have to degut the thing to upgrade. i will add a different cooler, but i need to read a bit up on the quietest/best solution there.

i too, will have to convert like mrpink, but again i may use my existing pc to do that to make it a wee bit easier, i just need to work out how over the next few weeks.

mucho thanks for the help, i think i have learned more here in 2 days then i did in the last weeks reading up on this stuff....

'falls tips his hat to ye all'

Khannie

One last thing to consider is this: You could underclock the processor, then passively cool it, removing some of the noise. The same applies to most nvidia cards...you can underclock them with the drivers in windows. It just needs a thing called "powerstrip" or something like that. Underclocking a 3200+ to, say, 2400+ would still make it just dandy as a htpc processor. If you decide to go this way, PM me. I'll carry out the necessary calculations to make sure the processor doesn't melt on you.

Last last thing: The hauppauge cards will only encode standard definition mpeg2. This wont be an issue for a while, and even when high def is the norm I think they'll just downgrade the pic to standard def, but it's something to be aware of. Hauppauge cards are quality though. I have the 350 myself. I'm assuming the 500 has a hardware decoder. If this is the case, you may end up not using it, so getting the 150 /might/ be a better (i.e. cheaper) option.

Fallschirmjager

Khannie wrote:

One last thing to consider is this: You could underclock the processor, then passively cool it, removing some of the noise. The same applies to most nvidia cards...you can underclock them with the drivers in windows. It just needs a thing called "powerstrip" or something like that. Underclocking a 3200+ to, say, 2400+ would still make it just dandy as a htpc processor. If you decide to go this way, PM me. I'll carry out the necessary calculations to make sure the processor doesn't melt on you.

Last last thing: The hauppauge cards will only encode standard definition mpeg2. This wont be an issue for a while, and even when high def is the norm I think they'll just downgrade the pic to standard def, but it's something to be aware of. Hauppauge cards are quality though. I have the 350 myself. I'm assuming the 500 has a hardware decoder. If this is the case, you may end up not using it, so getting the 150 /might/ be a better (i.e. cheaper) option.

thanks khannie, i will take you up on that!

i need to check the 500 again in light of yer comments here...

secret_squirrel

The obvious advantage of the 500 is of course it only takes up 1 pci slot....

Khannie

You've lost me there squirrel. Advantage v's what now?

MR DAZ

I think squirrel means its better than installing two if the older Hauppauge cards that only have single input/outputs etc


then again i could be as far out as Fanad light house;)

SouperComputer

I think he means the advantage of have two tuners\encoders but using only one PCI slot.

Khannie

*slaps head*

Of course. Fair point.