Liverpool's "disappointing" start to the season

Jivin Turkey

Some teams have now played over 1/3 of their league games this year (it might be a shock to some I know). I think now is a reasonable time to cast a reflection on Liverpool's performances so far.

A couple of weeks ago the nay-sayers were out in force. Reina is dodgy, the defence is crap, Hyypia is too old, there is no wingers, Morientes is past it, Cisse couldn't hit a barn door, selling Baros was a mistake, Owen should have been signed. I pleaded with many for time, but fans were quick to judge. The usual's had their cheap shot. Some people dismissed any hope of even CL qualificaiton.

Personally, I think in another two weeks time when Liverpool will have played another three PL games, and will be more certain as to their European future, will be a realistic indication as to how far the team has come, but I'm sure by then I won't need to open people's eyes for them.

Liverpool have now won four on the bounce, without conceeding a goal. The team that apparently couldn't score has notched almost an average of three a game. Now while I don't pretend that they have torn apart league contenders, perhaps a few easy games coming in a row is an indication that their start to the season was a lot harder than people were giving them credit for?

Regardless Liverpool sit in a healthy position in the league and on course for the next round of the CL. A win in their game in hand will put them sixth, two points of Manchester United, a soliatary point off Arsenal, and ahead of a Spurs side who were shoe in's for fourth in some people's eyes a few weeks ago. Liverpool play Sunderland next week while these teams play CC matches to tie the number of games played. I'm pleased with that, but hey, I don't have mad notions that Liverpool can realistically challenge this year.

Looking at what stand's in front of the side over the next two weeks fills me with more optimism. Betis come to Anfield on Wednesday without a single striker available with a goal to his name this year. Despite their Chelsea upset they have lost five out of seven. The game is more than winnable, and that will put Liverpool through.

Man City entertain The Reds at the weekend. City are doing quite well, and it's not a ground that Liverpool have done well at in recent years, but given Liverpool's tightness at the back this year, I really feel that they can come away with something.

Following on from that Liverpool travel to Sunderland, and then entertain Wigan, in which a target of maximum points is essential, and definitely attainable the way the team is playing.

This would put Liverpool in quite a strong position going into Christmas, well in touch with clubs with title ambitions, through to the knock-outs in the CL, and with more players certain to arrive in January why wouldn't one be optimistic?

Well I suppose look at the defence. They havn't signed anyone, how could it be any better? It's obvious this year the defence is better. The players are finally beginning to understand how Benetiz wants to work it. People will write Hyypia off because he got skinned against Chelsea once. I suppose the game was on Sky and against Chelsea so it's one of the only times most the people who like to knock Liverpool actually bother to watch them, what else would they think? Hyypia is still more than capable of doing a job at the highest level. He never was blessed with pace, his strengths in other areas more than make up for that. I expect a new centre half to be signed as cover is light, but I've full confidence in Hyypia to play an integral part this year.

Also, while Reina has not been particularly outstanding the defence is visibly more comfortable in front of him. Eight clean sheets in eleven games in the PL, and three out of four in the CL is something to be seriously encouraged by. Particularly with "liabilities" like Hyypia and Traore at the back .

Up front where people particularly love to bash things are also beginning to move in the right direction. Fernando Morientes, who was past his sell by date as opposed to just short of match practise last time I logged on, has scored three in his last four games. He has scored a single goal less than the mighty Wayne Rooney this season despite making two starts less. He is getting better, sharper, and starting to finally show what he can do. His goal against Anderlecht was pure class.

The loveable Cisse is already just one short of double figures. Four short of Baros's whole total for last year. He is on course to score 20-25 this season. He is still missing chances, but this is something that he can get better at, much quicker than Baros's infection to just run in blind channels. Cisse actually gets chances, not just possession in dangerous areas of the pitch. He's done very well considering he's playing for the wing most of the time.

And poor Peter, had to feel for him on Saturday, but still he is causing problems. The goals will come. He gives the team an option that they didn't have last year. I never grown on his introduction because he is guaranteed to mix things up. He has been unlucky at times, he has showed a lack of confidence at times, he has also changed games for the team at times. He may never be a world beater, but he definitely has a role to play for this team.

To summarise, with a little bit of luck Liverpool could easily be looking at seven wins out of eight come December. Through in the CL, and in touch in the PL (sure they might even be in that fourth spot that a few weeks ago was apparently unreachable). The defence is as solid as anyones bar Chelsea. The strikers are beginning to show a bit of promise. Money is there to be spent, and will be in January.

I just hope this crisis ends soon.

evad_lhorg

liverpool are good and the way they played at the weekend was the best ive seen em play in a while. i like that they played all three main strikers on the pitch. I ust think cisse is great but he is unreliable. Morientes didnt really get a proper chance last season and he is a top class finisher and i can se em comin.

Crouch is someone i have no i dea what the fuss is all abuot. he has done nothing to prove he should be on any squad let alone the liverpool squad and his national side.

luis garcia is a mistake waiting to happen every time. he can score for spain but he gets way too many chances with liverpol that are left failed.

harry kewell....... eh no

sinama pongolle..... ditto

alonso.... apart from gerrard this man is the the best player on the team

carragher... great defender. cant fault him

hyypia may have talent in some areas but tbh he is a bit of a liability.

Gerrard is bollocks

Sissoko... i dunno there is just somethin i dont like about lanky players.... they run funny.

Liverpool are goin good and id like to see it continue. I am a Utd fan, always have been but i also support teams that have players that amze me when they play. Arsenal just to watch Henry. Liverpool for Gerrard and i like Cisse for some reason. I like watching chelsea last season for lampard and Duff but i dont enjoy it this time around.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

A couple of weeks ago the nay-sayers were out in force. Reina is dodgy, the defence is crap, Hyypia is too old, there is no wingers, Morientes is past it, Cisse couldn't hit a barn door, selling Baros was a mistake, Owen should have been signed. I pleaded with many for time, but fans were quick to judge. The usual's had their cheap shot. Some people dismissed any hope of even CL qualificaiton. .

I notice you conveniently left Crouch out of that. Fair enough, the last four games have been won handily, but only two of the ten goals were scored by any of the three strikers, and one of those was a cross. Cisse hasnt done anything to dispell the "could'nt hit a barn door" analogy. If anything, miss-hitting a cross into the net only makes it look stronger. Alan Hansen was right when he said that at no stage did he think Cisse was going to score when he took the ball from the halfway line and was one on one with the keeper (was it in the Villa game?). He was less likely to score than Crouch was when he put the ball down for the penalty, and that says something because not one person thought he was going to score (although it would probably have been justice done had Zenden not scored the follow up as it was a shocking dive)


We should'nt have been expecting anything less than nine points from the three league games as Villa, West Ham and Pompey are ****e on current form. Anderleht hav'nt won a CL game in what, ten attempts? (if fact I think they've lost all ten). While it's good that we are not dropping points against the lower teams (bar fulham, which you also left out, don't forget losing to palace) a lot more has to be done. Utd are in somewhat of a state of dissaray (the whole slub I mean) but are still doing better than us, do you think if rafa played any of our 3 first choice strikers (let alone one of the fringe strikers) in a DM position due to the the first choice midfield being injured etc, we'ed be doing as well? They also have long term injuries (heinze, Neville, Keane) to deal with. Arsenal had a bad start but seeem to be grinding out results ( I fear for Liverpool V Wigan , they are not going to be hammered by anyone this season)

evad_lhorg wrote:

liverpool are good and the way they played at the weekend was the best ive seen em play in a while. i like that they played all three main strikers on the pitch. I ust think cisse is great but he is unreliable. Morientes didnt really get a proper chance last season and he is a top class finisher and i can se em comin.

How doe sthat match up with this?

evad_lhorg wrote:

Crouch is someone i have no i dea what the fuss is all abuot. he has done nothing to prove he should be on any squad let alone the liverpool squad and his national side.

Surely if he's ****e he's ****e(and I think he is) Why is it then good that Rafa is playing him?

Plus strikers as wingers? NONONONONONONONONONONONO, even if they happen to fluke a cross into the net.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well I suppose look at the defence. They havn't signed anyone, how could it be any better? It's obvious this year the defence is better. The players are finally beginning to understand how Benetiz wants to work it. People will write Hyypia off because he got skinned against Chelsea once. I suppose the game was on Sky and against Chelsea so it's one of the only times most the people who like to knock Liverpool actually bother to watch them, what else would they think? Hyypia is still more than capable of doing a job at the highest level. He never was blessed with pace, his strengths in other areas more than make up for that. I expect a new centre half to be signed as cover is light, but I've full confidence in Hyypia to play an integral part this year..

The defence is better because Rafa seems to have copped on that Troare is ****e. I was at the Chelsea game and it was embarassing to see in person how bad he is. I had two spurs fans with me and when they are laughing at a member of your team, you know you are in trouble. Without him in the team it looks more solid because it is a lot easier for the defence to be able to cope with Hyypia losing a yard of pace, when it doesnt have to worry about also covering Traore.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Up front where people particularly love to bash things are also beginning to move in the right direction. Fernando Morientes, who was past his sell by date as opposed to just short of match practise last time I logged on, has scored three in his last four games. He has scored a single goal less than the mighty Wayne Rooney this season despite making two starts less. He is getting better, sharper, and starting to finally show what he can do. His goal against Anderlecht was pure class..

I think you'll find he has 2 in 6 games (although you can narrow it down to 2 in 3 games, but thats being deliberately decieving, Yakubu got 2 in his last 1 game, doesnt make him great) . I'm not just picking on him, I'm a huge fan and have been defending him to the hilt, I can't wait till he starts banging them in, but facts are facts.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The loveable Cisse is already just one short of double figures. Four short of Baros's whole total for last year. He is on course to score 20-25 this season. He is still missing chances, but this is something that he can get better at, much quicker than Baros's infection to just run in blind channels. Cisse actually gets chances, not just possession in dangerous areas of the pitch. He's done very well considering he's playing for the wing most of the time..

Goals against TNS, CSKA Sofia and FBK Kaunas don't count towards CL goal tallies so you can take 4 off that ( had we not done so badly in the league last year, he would have been playing pre-season friendlies instead of these games. You can hardly count them. Morientes has 3 i think in the qualifiers too)

p.pete

Great piece Jivin Turkey, probably a few oversights but I'm sure it took you long enough to write

In defence of Crouch - he ain't scoring but he seems to be a good man to have on the pitch. England brought him on and score 2 against Argentina, similar has happened for Liverpool and in general he's been on the pitch lately and we've been winning. It's a crap defence for him but everyone who's playing with him is loving his contribution, basicly he needs to score not just one but a few because at the moment every pundit is saying "he's a nice lad but..."

Hyypia was mentioned so in his defence bring him out wide and he's definitely a liability but when he stays in the centre as he generally does he's solid. Limit the amount of time he gets dragged wide and it's very rare that he puts a foot wrong, he's been working away silently beside Carra and he's been fantastic.

In defence of us playing our front men out wide, there's none. We need to buy someone for wide right and the transfer window is closed, there's no point in grumbling about it.

Sisoko, he's 20 ffs - thrown in at the deep end on quite a few occasions playing in an unfamiliar league. He's shown some signs of promise on some of those occasions and I'm very hopeful of how he'll develop in the next 2 years or so.

I'm concerned about how people are starting to look at Liverpool in the last week or so and saying they've won 4 in a row. I want to see that move to 7 or 8. We'll soon be sodding off to Japan for a week and if we don't get these wins under our belt now we'll be in trouble when we do. After Japan we're into the Christmas period where it's cold (especially if you're Spanish) and the games come thick and fast. Going well at the moment though, hopefully there'll be decent signings at Christmas - just one really good right midfielder

ButcherOfNog

Stekelly wrote:

I fear for Liverpool V Wigan , they are not going to be hammered by anyone this season

Did you not watch the full Arsenal v Wigan game at the weekend? Arsenal strolled thru Wigans midfield and center of defense at will in the first half once they'd scored. Only Arsenals terrible defending (or should that be Cygans terrible defending) kept Wigan in touch. Wigan are poor in midfield and slow at the back, they do have tons of pace up front tho and they're up where they are in the table from sitting back and hitting on the break. A good tactic, till you go a goal down, i can't see wigan getting anything from the man utd, chelsea and pool games that they've got coming up. It was good to watch Kavanagh for the entire game and see just what he was playing like, he wasn't easy on the eye, his passing was poor and he didn't seem to know what he was doing half the time.

As for judging Liverpool now, no, wait till the fixtures on Jan 1st are played, then judge them. Its too early now, we've definately looked the part in recent games, much more effort being put in by the players in games that we'd have struggled in last year.

As also disagree about Garcia, I think we need a player like him in the side, someone who can turn it on and do something special, even tho he does infuriate me at times, he also has been much more attentive to what hes doing in the last number of games.

el rabitos

i think the game against man city will be a good indicator of how far liverpool have come since last season, in terms of how much fight the players have in them. last season when they were put under any physical pressure from teams they fell flat.

man city are a tough team with a good fighting spirit so a win against them by any team would be well deserved this season

anyway, last i checked, liverpool are still 9th in the table, nothing to write home about, ive learned never to assume liverpool will win games in hand or whatever so i'm going to wait till the end of the season before i judge.

having said that i'll be dissapointed if we end the season with no less that 3 throphys, including super cup, world club championship and at least the fa cup

robz150

el rabitos wrote:

having said that i'll be dissapointed if we end the season with no less that 3 throphys, including super cup, world club championship and at least the fa cup

You don't ask much:D

Chucky the tree

el rabitos wrote:

anyway, last i checked, liverpool are still 9th in the table, nothing to write home about, ive learned never to assume liverpool will win games in hand or whatever so i'm going to wait till the end of the season before i judge.

of course you are..

el rabitos

You don't ask much

theres certain areas of the team that need improving, but i've no doubt the team there right now is more than capable of adding 2 more cup throphys tbh.

of course you are..

??

am i wrong? are liverpool not 9th right now? is it not possible we could lose the games in hand?

SteM

el rabitos wrote:

having said that i'll be dissapointed if we end the season with no less that 3 throphys, including super cup, world club championship and at least the fa cup

The premiership clubs haven't even started in the FA cup yet and you're expecting Liverpool to win the whole thing?

Guy:Incognito

SteM wrote:

The premiership clubs haven't even started in the FA cup yet and you're expecting Liverpool to win the whole thing?

Whats the point of entering so? Liverpool will be among the favourites.

Anyway it's hardly like entering a competition they have no chancer of winning, like the Champions Le...............

SteM

Stekelly wrote:

Whats the point of entering so? Liverpool will be among the favourites.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

I mean of course I'd like United to win the cup but the way he's phrased his post it's almost like he expected Liverpool to win it and he's be disappointed if they didn't. If he'd posted the same after a couple of rounds when a few of the other favourites had been knocked out I could understand but what makes him think Liverpool have anymore chance of winning it than Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle or any other Premiership side? It's not like they've been head and shoulders above any of these sides so far this season.

el rabitos

let me re-phrase it so.....

i expect liverpool, the champions of europe, conquerers of juve, milan and chelsea, to seriously challenge for a domestic cup littered with teams not in their league and not to loose to a team like burnley or ipswich or acrinston stanley. its embarressing

~Rebel~

Stekelly wrote:

I think you'll find he has 2 in 6 games (although you can narrow it down to 2 in 3 games, but thats being deliberately decieving

Obviously i cant speak for the guy but i assume the 3 he mentioned included his international goal for Spain in the 15minutes he played. I think its fairly obvious to anyone who's been watching him that his confidence and fitness has improved massively. He now looks a real threat in every game he plays. Much as cisse does. Granted he's hugely frustrating sometimes, but as someoen else said, i really just like the guy! His amazing confidence and the swagger he walks with, he just looks like he owns whoever he's playing against. And in fairness he does always look like scoring. Even if he doesn't improve at all over the season i'd be quite sure he'll get 20in all compititions, he's nearly half way already. With a little more composure (which he has possessed in the past for Auxere) and he'll get more. I dont care what people say about different league's and all that. 1v1 is 1v1, doesn't matter what country you're in. If he can get the calm he used to have in front of goal, we can add another couple onto his tally and onto his assists (though he has already had some great awareness of team mates positioning while near the goal over the past year already, something Baros always lacked).

As for crouch, well when we have the other 2 and sinama pongolle, its great to have something different, and even if he does nothing else, he gives everyone around him that extra yard of space thats all important. Though i do think he has more to offer then that. Im looking forward to a proper appraisal of him after the season.

mike65

Hey it good to be a Liverpool fan (touch wood!).

The club is clearly getting its collective act together, in truth the only thing that was required was for Rafa to tweak the formation and stick with a core
line up, players need time to understand each others style and that can't really be done on the training ground.

I'm quite optimistic for the CL and Prem.

On a broader note its fun to watch the mighty Charlton fall from 2nd to 10th in no time at all, Spurs are drifting and I expect Man City, Bolton and Wigan to all start a gradual slide downwards to varing degrees. Liverpool, 'Boro and proberly Newcastle will rise though them...

Mike.

Lemlin

Liverpool have now won four on the bounce, without conceeding a goal.

Liverpool's last four games were against West Ham, Anderlecht, Villa and Portsmouth. Those are hardly world-beaters.

I think we'll get a more accurate representation of how far Liverpool have come during the first four weeks of December when they face Wigan, Chelsea, Boro and Newcastle.

Lemlin

Liverpool have now won four on the bounce, without conceeding a goal.

Liverpool's last four games were against West Ham, Anderlecht, Vill and Portsmouth. Those are hardly world-beaters.

I think we'll get a more accurate representation of how far Liverpool have come during the first four weeks of December when they face Wigan, Chelsea, Boro and Newcastle. Three of those games are at home so it'll be interesting to see how they perform.

Necronomicon

Lemlin wrote:

Liverpool's last four games were against West Ham, Anderlecht, Villa and Portsmouth. Those are hardly world-beaters.

I think we'll get a more accurate representation of how far Liverpool have come during the first four weeks of December when they face Wigan, Chelsea, Boro and Newcastle.

In fairness, last season it was the Villas and Pompeys of the league that Liverpool were failing to beat. If they stay consistant against the middle and lower teams then they will have come on leaps and bounds from last season.

p.pete

Lemlin wrote:

I think we'll get a more accurate representation of how far Liverpool have come during the first four weeks of December when they face Wigan, Chelsea, Boro and Newcastle.

First four weeks, why don't you just say the whole month? I agree tbh. With the trip to Japan we need to win as much as possible now and also hit the ground running when we get back as we'll be bang into silly season with 3 games a week over Christmas / New Years. It's a time when any team can drop points so a good spell around then and I'll be delighted.

Guy:Incognito

p.pete wrote:

First four weeks, why don't you just say the whole month? .

Cos you never know what might happen on Dec 31st

cruiserweight

Lemlin wrote:

Liverpool's last four games were against West Ham, Anderlecht, Villa and Portsmouth. Those are hardly world-beaters.

I think we'll get a more accurate representation of how far Liverpool have come during the first four weeks of December when they face Wigan, Chelsea, Boro and Newcastle.

I would agree that teams like Blackburn, West Ham, Anderlecht, Villa, and Portsmouth that Liverpool have beaten recently are not the best! These are the teams that Liverpool normally slip up against, so it is good to see Liverpool beating these teams!

The fixtures that Liverpool have before they head off to Japan are

UEFA Champions League
Liverpool v Real Betis, 19:45
Saturday, 26 November 2005

Barclays Premiership
Man City v Liverpool, 15:00
Wednesday, 30 November 2005

Barclays Premiership
Sunderland v Liverpool, 19:45
Saturday, 03 December 2005

Barclays Premiership
Liverpool v Wigan, 12:45
Tuesday, 06 December 2005

UEFA Champions League
Chelsea v Liverpool, 19:45
Saturday, 10 December 2005

Barclays Premiership
Liverpool v Middlesbrough, 12:45

All Liverpool need is a point in the Champions League to progress, and I would expect them to get at least that against Betis, if that happens the result of the Chelski match is of no consequence! In the league I would be expecting 10 out of those 12 points!