Multiculturalism = a total crock of poo

Uthur

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is
a stupid idea. If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

When you move to another country you have to play by their rules. An
Irish person wouldn't move to Iran and walk up the street half-naked or
bladdered drunk. Likewise, you can't travel half way around the world to
Ireland and act like you're still at home.

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things
on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native
cultures. I don't happen to agree

Maskhadov

personally im not in favour of mulitculturism. I think everyone should have their own culture but should be able to identify with Ireland and Irish culture and be able to call themselves Irish.

HelterSkelter

What's wrong with adapting aspects of other people's cultures. We do it already, look at all the Italian/Indian/Thai/Chinese/Leabanese restaurants around. By eating their food we are already accepting their culture. Look at all the idiots sitting outside coffee shops in the freezing cold thinking they are Italians/Spanish/French.

I don't see any problem with multiculturalism once the practice doesn't involve breaking the laws of the host country.

therecklessone

Uthur wrote:

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Very selective the way you chose all three.

Are you opposed to all circumcision, or just with a razor blade?

Do you oppose all forms of physical punishment for minors? Or just with sticks?

As for giving up your seat? Happen much around your way, does it? Cos my experience has been that its kill or be killed (regardless of age, sex, or nationality) pn ourpublic transport network).

simu

HelterSkelter wrote:

I don't see any problem with multiculturalism once the practice doesn't involve breaking the laws of the host country.

Same. These debates always become polarised though (yawn).

Hobbes

Uthur wrote:

If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

You should tell that to all the Irish ex-pats that live in countries such as England, America, Singapore, etc.

or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example.

I'm curious, what culture is that from then?

HelterSkelter

Hobbes wrote:

I'm curious, what culture is that from then?

Our very own local scumbag culture I think!

netwhizkid

I agree with OP, You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in. Just look at the loud-mouths that start arriving during the summer, like the Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves. Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France. It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them. Like that is one of the main causes of conflict in the Middle East, Women choose to wear the veil and American values then suggest she is suppressed someway. McDonalds and "Can I get a bagel" Syndrome isn't helping either.

Hobbes

netwhizkid wrote:

You integrate or get out

Define integration though? The irish culture as it stands now gets a lot of it culture from other cultures. English culture for one, not to mention the US (due to TV/Movies).

Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in.

Which is the same here.

Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves.

Well the US is built on multiculturism, unless your talking about the Indian people as a comparison.

bonkey

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is a stupid idea.

When multiculturalism is cast as a complete acceptance of all aspects of all cultures, then clearly it is a stupid and unworkable idea.

That, however, is not what multiculturalism is generally understood by those who support it...at least by my understanding.

Its a bit like seeing those who oppose restrictive immigration/asylum laws as being in support of an open-door policy, really - casting (or attempting to cast) the issue as a binary "all or nothing" issue, when in reality its nothing but a myriad differing shades of grey.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native cultures.

Not all (nor even most, I would say) liberals have this "anything goes, as long as its ok at home" attitude, however, and that distinction is noteworthy.

What always strikes me as funny is that when push comes to shove, opponents of multiculturalism generally don't see a need to make a huge fuss about cultures that aren't too dissimilar to ours. So multiculturalism is often just fine, as long as it excludes certain cultures.

The general argument in favour of multiculturalism is that we should not be unaccepting of something merely because it is different, but that this is all too often the case.

There are unpalatable aspects of every culture, true. Note, however, that I said every culture. This includes our own. You will generally find that our culture's / cultures' failings are more acceptable than those of immigrant cultures.

Multiculturalism is about integration. Its about acceptance. This is a two-way process. Multiculturalism has as little place for immigrant hate-mongers or criminals as it does for native ones.

netwhizkid wrote:

You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in

There is a distinction between integration and abandoning your culture. Most Irish people I know have balanced being able to get along fine with the locals with still being Irish. I haven't abandoned my culture simply because its different. I haven't been expected to, nor have I been made feel unwelcome for not doing so.

It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them.

I agree with the first half of this sentence.

I do not think, however, that its in any fair to suggest that imposing American values (as you put it) is a central part of why problems with multiculturalism are being caused. I can't see how Irish peoples objection to immigration bringing various foreign cultures to our shores would suddenly evaporate if Western/US values weren't being imposed.

jc

cyclopath2001

netwhizkid wrote:

if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers

How do you define our own culture, race and identity?

Should we reject all foreign influence and go back to our pre-Christian ways?

Does our culture include the capacity to accept law-abiding people who are different from us?

I think multi-culturalism is just marketing lingo for what many of us would regard as 'common decency'.

ratboy

i think we should be developed enough as a society to embrace different cultures while at the same time, opposing violations of human rights that might come with those cultures..

grubber

bonkey wrote:

Multiculturalism is about integration.

No It's the opposite. Multiculturalism was invented by those left-wing politically correct brainboxes who came to the realization that elements of some immigrant cultures have no intention of integrating. Not only do they believe that their faith and way of life are superior to ours, but they are encouraged by some of their religious leaders to consider us as no better than dogs or monkeys.

bonkey

grubber wrote:

No It's the opposite. Multiculturalism was invented by those left-wing politically correct brainboxes who came to the realization that elements of some immigrant cultures have no intention of integrating.

I see the misunderstanding.

We understand different things by integration.

I'm talking about integration of cultures, not individuals "melding in" to our own culture and conforming to it. This should not suggest in any way casting away of all that is different on either side.

jc

Hobbes

Actually Grubber AFAIR Multiculturalism is the joining/merging of cultures. Not one being absorbed into the other.

grubber

Hobbes wrote:

Actually Grubber AFAIR Multiculturalism is the joining/merging of cultures. Not one being absorbed into the other.

Not sure what AFAIR means. But I never said Multiculturalism is being absorbed within each other. In fact the more vocal adherents of MC talk about "celebrating diversity".
I wonder if these same people would have celebrated segregation in Alabama, or Apartheid in S. Africa?

Hobbes

AFAIR = As far as I remember.

You may not of said it, but that is basically what you want. How does that make you different from the loonies on the other side?

Segregation is not multiculturism neither is celebrating diversity.

biko

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is
a stupid idea. If you go to live in another country you accept that there
will be different social mores in that country that you have to abide by.

When you move to another country you have to play by their rules. An
Irish person wouldn't move to Iran and walk up the street half-naked or
bladdered drunk. Likewise, you can't travel half way around the world to
Ireland and act like you're still at home.

This means that certain things will not be accepted by the host
population here: circumcising your kids with a razor blade, beating them
with sticks, or refusing to give your seat on the bus to a heavily pregnant
or elderly woman, for example. And lots of other things besides.

Edit: I have heard liberals (even some of my friends) defend all of these things
on the grounds that they are acceptable in the perpetrators' native
cultures. I don't happen to agree

Yes throw them all out, damn Australians:mad: They come over here, take the women and all the barjobs. At least they could make an effort to speak so we can understand.

cyclopath2001

grubber wrote:

Not only do they believe that their faith and way of life are superior to ours, but they are encouraged by some of their religious leaders to consider us as no better than dogs or monkeys.

It wouldn't be much of a faith if it didn't give its followers a smug sense of superiority, but the Mormons are decent enough people, I'm sure they'ed make good neighbours.

grubber

Hobbes wrote:

AFAIR = As far as I remember.

You may not of said it, but that is basically what you want. How does that make you different from the loonies on the other side?

Segregation is not multiculturism neither is celebrating diversity.

Hobbes, Thank you for explaining AFAIR to me. now would you be so kind as to re-phrase the rest of your posting. I cant make head, orse, or tail of it.

billy the squid

please tell me you are being sarcastic!

netwhizkid wrote:

I agree with OP, You integrate or get out, Most irish people abroad have integrated in whatever country they are in. Just look at the loud-mouths that start arriving during the summer, like the Irish in America are more "american" that americans themselves.

Horse****e. the first thing the irish do when they go to america is find an "irish" pub. If the Irish intergrated as well as you claim there would be no such thing as the Irish pub anywhere in the world except ireland.

Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France.

There is a difference between multiculturalism and what occoured in france. In france, people from foreign countries were segregated and not given equal opportunities when it came to employment. It was subtle racism rather than multiculturalism that lead to the riots in France. I would see multiculturalism as everyone haveing equal opportunities regardless of their race, colour or traditions

It is all being caused by globalisation and trying to impose "Western" - American values on people that just don't want them. Like that is one of the main causes of conflict in the Middle East,

The main cause of conflict in the middle east is the colinization of parts of palestinian lands by israel, again, those of different cultures to the israelis are being segregated, not intergrated into society, with "peace walls" and checkpoints and the like.

Zombrex

Uthur wrote:

Even I, speaking as a complete lefty-looney, can see that multiculturalism is a stupid idea.

I assume this means you will calling for pepole not to go see any UK or American films, watching any imported television shows, refusing to listen to any imported music, not to play any Japanise or American video games and burning all our books by non-Irish authors ...

after all we don't want our culture tainted by anything foreign and strange ...

Karl Hungus

You know, I'm all for preserving out culture and heritage, but I think people are forgetting one of the largest threats to this is Globalization. Big faceless coprorations are the problem here, in my honest opinion. Christ, look at the world we're living in! Fly anywhere in the world, chances are there's McDonalds everywhere... How's that for cultural diversity?

And lets not forget the bunch of sell-out cowboys who are running the show either. Hey, lets plow through Tara Skryne valley! Who cares if it's important to some people, it'll save some money on our motorway! Hey, lets sell out our neutrality to Dubya Bush! Who cares if it betrays just about every sane person in the country as long as Bertie gets his 30 pieces?

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what's going to ruin our culture and heritage. Not Multiculturalism.

Sorry... I'm just in ranting mode.

HelterSkelter

Karl Hungus wrote:

You know, I'm all for preserving out culture and heritage, but I think people are forgetting one of the largest threats to this is Globalization...

Did you intentionally spell Globalisation the American bastardised way?!!!

Karl Hungus

HelterSkelter wrote:

Did you intentionally spell Globalisation the American bastardised way?!!!

Wow! I didn't think anyone would pick up on that!

therecklessone

netwhizkid wrote:

Multiculturism is only thrash and if our own Irish culture and race is to survive we must preserve our identity and not be walked all over and rubbished by foreginers which will eventually lead to race riots ala France.

The problem in France was integration!

Officially everyone is French. Unofficially, your name, your neighbourhood, or simply your appearance is enough to disqualify you from employment. The French government does not recoginse ethnic groups as distinct units, all are French. And so, the ethnic make up of ghettoised neighbourhoods is ignored, for why point out that everyone living in apartment block is of Arab origin when they are French?

The result?

Unemployment among people of French origin is 9.2%. Among those of foreign origin, the figure is 14% - even after adjusting for educational qualifications.

Source

grubber

bonkey wrote:

I see the misunderstanding.

We understand different things by integration.

I'm talking about integration of cultures, not individuals "melding in" to our own culture and conforming to it. This should not suggest in any way casting away of all that is different on either side.

jc

Oh right. You mean like in Norway?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0630/p09s01-coop.html

catholicireland

In 20 or 30 years time Ireland will really see what multiculturalism is like. We have only been experiencing it for a short period now. I think the big difference between us and the US and UK is that we have such a small population! This immigration will bring a massive change in this country. Thats why I think immigration should stop.

billy the squid

catholicireland wrote:

In 20 or 30 years time Ireland will really see what multiculturalism is like. We have only been experiencing it for a short period now. I think the big difference between us and the US and UK is that we have such a small population! This immigration will bring a massive change in this country. Thats why I think immigration should stop.

and how do you propose we fill the shortfall in employment if we stop immigration?

There is nothing to be gained by blocking people who want to live here and work here from doing so.

Memnoch

billy the squid wrote:

and how do you propose we fill the shortfall in employment if we stop immigration?

There is nothing to be gained by blocking people who want to live here and work here from doing so.

those nasty foreigners might not be catholic and then catholireland would stop being 88% catholic and maybe become 80% catholic, and that is a risk not worth any economic gains!

Actually the poles are more catholic than the Irish.
They go to church.