Eircom trials 5Mbps broadband service

Z

*sigh*
I know people on smart who were getting 8mbit until recently.
5megs is fvck all

jor el

bk wrote:

Well NTL has nothing to do with Eircom, their network is completely independent of Eircom. Same for Digiweb Metro and Clearwire.

But if Eircom, being the largest (if not one of the largest) broadband providor in the country, ups their connection speeds, then all the other players will have to follow suit or risk losing business to Eircom.

Also, Eircom won't increase their speeds by any significant amount until LLU operators can start eating into their profits. When the LLU mess is sorted then Eircom will be forced into doing something about their own network. And if Eircom start to make changes then everyone else will follow suit for fear of being left behind.

So even if you're not with Eircom, or not even connected to them in any way (Metro, NTL, IBB, etc), your broadband speed is still being dictated in some way by them :mad:

OfflerCrocGod

Kristok wrote:

indeed but you would need the services and at the moment i dont see any sites that require more than 512 usually let alone 3 or even 24mb. Only place thats taken off is in asia afaik. I think 3mb would do me and most other heavy downloaders just fine. Not saying 24 wouldnt be nice but theres just nothing worth using it on.

Wrong. Very wrong. In France IPTV is popular with their proper high speed lines; usually the triple-play package is offered i.e. TV + BB + VOIP. These services only came into being after the LLU market was opened you can't offer HDTV - IPTV unless the infrastructure is available. Magnet and Digiweb with their Metro offerings are doing this or are begining to do it the only reason they are capable of doing this is because they are using their own lines/network. We are being left behind by the rest of the world because €ircon is allowed control and dictate the market to their own terms. The reason why others are leaving us behind is because they have strong regulators who force the market open and help fight the incumbent, we have the useless Comwreck.

PiE

I really don't understand people who say "ah shore who needs that". YOU don't need it, but there are people who do and it's those people who have pushed for faster speeds all along and they're the bloody reason you're sitting on a 1mb/2mb connection right now.

Turner

Threads merged, ones that i could anyway.

Chief.

Steffano2002

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Wrong. Very wrong. In France IPTV is popular with their proper high speed lines; usually the triple-play package is offered i.e. TV + BB + VOIP. These services only came into being after the LLU market was opened you can't offer HDTV - IPTV unless the infrastructure is available. Magnet and Digiweb with their Metro offerings are doing this or are begining to do it the only reason they are capable of doing this is because they are using their own lines/network. We are being left behind by the rest of the world because €ircon is allowed control and dictate the market to their own terms. The reason why others are leaving us behind is because they have strong regulators who force the market open and help fight the incumbent, we have the useless Comwreck.

So what you're saying here is that we all have slow connections because of €ircom? Now why am I not surprised!?

By the way OfflerCrocGod, love your sig! Awesome quotes

layke

There upload and caps are still sh** though. Meaning they are still one of the worst ISP's go use.

Kristok

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Wrong. Very wrong. In France IPTV is popular with their proper high speed lines; usually the triple-play package is offered i.e. TV + BB + VOIP. These services only came into being after the LLU market was opened you can't offer HDTV - IPTV unless the infrastructure is available. Magnet and Digiweb with their Metro offerings are doing this or are begining to do it the only reason they are capable of doing this is because they are using their own lines/network. We are being left behind by the rest of the world because €ircon is allowed control and dictate the market to their own terms. The reason why others are leaving us behind is because they have strong regulators who force the market open and help fight the incumbent, we have the useless Comwreck.

Yea and i dont speak french so what use it that. Rte are hardly going to start offering web casts or shows and bbc are years off offering it to the general public and I doubt we will get access to it in ireland seeing as we dont pay for their tv licenses. We still have analog telly and your looking for hdtv/iptv and acusing eircom of being the reason we dont have it. Noone needs 24mb internet in ireland unless your operating a big network and if you are there are other options for companys to get but making out like there would be telly there to watch over it is even less realistic than getting 24mb in the first place. Eircom will as they should as a company trying to make a profit stagnate the release of full speed on the line is and release adsl 2 at an inflated price when they decide the market is willing to pay the price for them to set it up or when someone else gets off their ass and builds up a network that can deliver the speed. But go ahead blame eircom its all the boogie mans fault but all your doing is letting the other operators off the hook.

Mutant_Fruit

Kristok wrote:

bbc are years off offering it to the general public

They have already done largescale trials of this. I think i read somewhere that they've already released some shows to the general public via the net, or at least are going to do so very soon.

bk

Kristok wrote:

Yea and i dont speak french so what use it that. Rte are hardly going to start offering web casts or shows and bbc are years off offering it to the general public and I doubt we will get access to it in ireland seeing as we dont pay for their tv licenses.

Actually the BBC are probably the most progressive TV company in the world and already offer most of their shows for 1 week on the internet after they are shown.

RTE, BBC and all the other channles are already been showen on IPTV right here in Ireland by Magnet over ADSL2+ and Fibre.

I expect Smart, Digiweb and maybe even Eircom/BT will be offering similiar services within 12 months.

IPTV doesn't require any special work by RTE or any other channels. The ISP just takes the channel transmission from satellite and encodes it with their servers to push to their customers. The channels don't have to do any streaming over the internet, it doesn't work that way.

High speed last mile technologies is required by the ISPs to allow them deliver the TV service over BB. Using MPEG2 a standard definition TV transmission will require about 4mb/s. So technology like ADSL2+ and high speeds like 24mb/s are required.

BTW in the US, Verizon, the largest telecoms company in the US has actually decided that ADSL2+ and VDSL actually aren't fast enough for them and instead they are rolling out fibre to the home to allow their customers, they are currently connecting 3 miilion people a year.

This Fibre network will allow speeds greater then 200mb/s to each customer and they are already delivering a full TV service over this network (though technically they are not using IPTV, they are using more traditional technology used in cable).

Steffano2002

And I'm not one bit jealous! We'll all have the same in 2012! :v:

Laguna

Steffano2002 wrote:

And I'm not one bit jealous! We'll all have the same in 2012! :v:

Pff, Good luck.. Not if Eircom have anything to do with it. Look at us in the year 2005 in comparison to other countries (e.g France, Britain, Canada, U.S, Australia, Germany; need I go on). There needs to be a radical shake up in this country to get everything up to speeds to rival other countries and the only way this looks achievable is if Eircom are shut down or bought out by a foreign company. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why are a private company like €ircon going to bust their arse with cutting edge technology (e.g FTTH) when they can't even be bothered to supply basic DSL to the whole country.

Kristok

Ok so what you guys are saying is you want 24mb adsl2 so you can watch bbc and rte on the net, yea i can really see how that is worth it thanks for opening my eyes to this new technology id never be able to do that without 24mb or maby a tv card :rolleyes:

Why do you guys complaining about irelands broadband always compare us with other countries, there is no country like ireland we are a small country on what is apart from dublin a fairly spread out bit of land. Dsl is available in dublin and allot of the country but not all. Britian still has people who cant get dsl and their population is like 10 times ours on land not a hell of alot bigger than ireland and 8mb bb is only getting pushed out there now and they where years ahead of us. France, holland, germany, america are even more years ahead of us we have to grow the technology you cant just go from 56k to 24mb overnight otherwise people wont know what to do with it and it becomes a waste of money no company can afford to squander. As it is im sure 99% of the population wouldnt know what to do with 5mb and the only reason eircom are even bothering pushing it out is so they can get that number thats bigger than the next companies out so the average consumer will go oh 5mb is bigger than 2mb ill get that so.

Laguna

British people can already enjoy the luxury of 24mb broadband from a company called be, with BT looking to upgrade the network of the U.K even further with a view to be able to provide 100mb broadband in London by 2007.

Kristok wrote:

Why do you complaining about ireland always compare us with other countries, we are a small country on what is apart from dublin a fairly spread out bit of land

Don't I only know it, everything in this country is done for Dublin, every time Fianna Fail want to get re-elected all they talk about is what they're going to do for Dublin, a metro, more LUAS, better roads, trams to the airport, **** the rest of the country. Your point about Ireland only being a small country, well then, shouldn't that also mean it'd be easier to implement and cost far, far less to install a more modern telecommunications network?. Look at Liechtenstein, you couldn't fit both your feet into the country, yet they have a state of the art telecoms network. Look at Australia, they only have a population of 18 million, they have a state of the art telecoms network, they didn't adopt the "Ah sure **** it" attitude people in power in this country take, look at Australia's land mass in contrast to its population and then think of the infrastructure that would have been implemented to upgrade their network to its standard now. Ireland trumpets itself as an I.T capital of the world, will they be able to call themselves that in 2012 when a good majority of us will still be stuck on dial-up?

Steffano2002

Well now, if I had to choose between Laguna and Kristok here, I'd definitely go with Laguna!
Kristok your post is "typically Irish". By that I mean you really believe Ireland is a small country that cannot "compete" with other countries such as the UK or France... You think we shouldn't expect good internet connections because they are difficult and costly to install. You think €ircom is doing what they can and fair play to them for trying...
To me this is all bullsh!t!!!! You have to adopt Laguna's attitude! You have to expect the Irish government to pull their finger out and say to €ircom "get moving you bunch of muppets or else we're getting another company to do it". You should expect to get 24MB connections in 6 months! Why can other countries do it and not Ireland? Is there a lack of money? A lack of technological knowledge? I don't think so... I think they just couldn't be arsed because people like yourself don't expect them to do it! It's that whole "Ah sure **** it" attitude Laguna was talking about!

bk

Kristok wrote:

Ok so what you guys are saying is you want 24mb adsl2 so you can watch bbc and rte on the net, yea i can really see how that is worth it thanks for opening my eyes to this new technology id never be able to do that without 24mb or maby a tv card :rolleyes:

No, that is just the start, with IPTV you can deliver Video On Demand services over this network. This will be an incredible revolution in TV, people won't watch channels anymore, they will watch content, when they want, not when the TV channel wants.

I got to try this a few weeks ago in Boston, watching 3 episodes of Rome (that had been shown weeks earlier) on Comcast cable was incredible. It was extremelly easy to use, with brilliant picture quality.

Also with this technology they will be able to deliver interactive TV services, much more advanced then Sky digital.

Sky themselves have realised the importantance of this technology and are currently busy buying LLU DSL companies in the UK in order to deliver this technology. I hope you don't own shares in xtra vision (Blockbuster actually) as they are going to be screwed by this tech.

Plus there are plenty of other things you can do with this tech, high quality video conferencing, full game downloads, backup your PC's contents to the net, etc.

kaizersoze

bk wrote:

Sky themselves have realised the importantance of this technology and are currently busy buying LLU DSL companies in the UK in order to deliver this technology.

Sky have already signed a deal with Magnet for this. "Sky by Wire" it's called.
http://www.magnet.ie/news/24-10-05.shtml
Magnet also have a TV package:
http://www.magnet.ie/packages/value.shtml

Blaster99

Countries like Norway, Sweden, and Finland have similar-ish population density and distribution. Ireland is not unique, it's just excuses.

I'm a little sceptical when it comes to TV over ADSL. As things stand, I don't think ADSL has the speed capability over longer distances that makes IPTV a universally viable service. Nothing really to do with Ireland as such.

OfflerCrocGod

Kristok wrote:

Ok so what you guys are saying is you want 24mb adsl2 so you can watch bbc and rte on the net, yea i can really see how that is worth it thanks for opening my eyes to this new technology id never be able to do that without 24mb or maby a tv card :rolleyes:

You don't understand what IPTV is. We are not talking about computers we are talking about set top boxes like Sky plugged into the TV feeding high quality content to the viewers possibly *on demand*! It's not a little crappy quality video feed on your PC.

Snaga

Laguna wrote:

British people can already enjoy the luxury of 24mb broadband from a company called be, with BT looking to upgrade the network of the U.K even further with a view to be able to provide 100mb broadband in London by 2007.

24Mb broadband is not available to all "British people".

Its available to a large number of people yes, but they all live in some parts of london.

And now 24Mb broadband is available in some parts of Dublin! I imagine that we will have it available in more parts of Ireland before it starts gaining serious ground over there.

Kristok

Claiming that britian has 24 mb bb because small pockets in london have it is like saying you can get t3 to your house cause ucd has one. Our population is tiny compared to the countries your quoting and there are completly different reasons why it works in some countries and not in others like here. Whoever used aus as an example is crazy their population all lives in large communities on one coast and the rest that dont are probably lucky if they have a telephone never mind bb. The main problem with ireland is apart from the couple of big communities like Dublin, Cork, Waterford etc there are a hell of allot of people in towns that would not be economical for any company to deliver services to, just as it is with britian. Saying the government should force them to do it is madness and we all know eircom would just use it as an excuse for a price hike if they did. Eircom is not a state body its sole purpose is money not providing a service to a kid in a remote part of kerry thats going to cost 10 times the ammount of money they will ever make from it.

IPTV or something simular was trialed by eircom (hotwire i think it was called) and was a waste of money and they would be crazy to do it again without a guaranteed market which is not available yet. America might have it and France might have it but they also had broadband when eircom (State owned at the time i believe)was trying to convince us isdn was a good idea, something that again eircom pushed a load of money into that didnt catch on. I would love it if we had 24mb bb and something to use on it but we dont so whats the point in having it now. Im not replying to anymore rubbish you can wish all you want it aint going to happen id love to adopt Laguna's attitude as was suggested but its all wishfull thinking and the realities on the ground are that 5mb bb is great progress seeing as we only had 512 2 years ago and its probably slightly faster progress than allot of countries in the same ammount of time. Its the same attitude that says we should all be using hybrid cars but the reality is a little bit more complex than just saying its a good idea lets all do it.

skywalker

Kristok wrote:

Only place thats taken off is in asia afaik.

magnet.ie, The crowd who just began offering 24mb lines in Ireland, are also using iptv.

Kristok wrote:

if you give me one reason ill admit defeat

Youve been given reasons, we demand a white flag:p

Kristok

I will admit there are reasons but very unrealistic reasons that are not going to happen in the near future even if you guys wish as hard as you can to santa those services are still years away, very last word im saying on the matter but fair play to you guys for being so pasionate I dont agree with ya in the slighest but gotta respect your opinion.

OfflerCrocGod

Kristok wrote:

I will admit there are reasons but very unrealistic reasons that are not going to happen in the near future even if you guys wish as hard as you can to santa those services are still years away, very last word im saying on the matter but fair play to you guys for being so pasionate I dont agree with ya in the slighest but gotta respect your opinion.

You seem to be arguing from a position of ignorance. I get the feeling you don't understand what a proper telecoms regulator is for or what IPTV was about until it was explained to you. Simply because *you* don't see how these services that are offered to people in other countries can be offered to us in Ireland doesn't mean there aren't others who do.

In countries with a proper, strong regulator the market is deeper penetrated and more advanced; €ircon have a very compliant regulator in comwreck who is happy to do nothing to open up the market to competition - it's not just us on Boards who are angry at this even competing companies like EsatBT, Smart, Digiweb are angry at the hopeless comwreck. Even the goverment is beginning to get embarrassed at our record. We are on a par with Turkey, Greece and Mexico in the internet stakes, several ex-communist Eastern European states are ahead of us. I don't care what deluded arguments you make about how difficult Ireland is for BB *we should not* be in danger of slipping behind countries like Turkey!

Our size is meaningless all the nordic countries are far better then us; the difference between us and them is that they have competent regulators and goverments while we have idiots and clowns. Our competitiveness, our future prospects and abilities are being seriously undermined and damaged by our clueless regulator and goverment.

They think phone support jobs are "high-tech".

lucernarian

Why the hell can't I get DSL when in countries like the UK they provide people like me with a service?

The reason is that eircom decide to impose a line distance limit of 4.5 km while BT have demonstrated that 512k broadband can work at more than double the distance.

Is there something "uneconomical" about enabling a line just to see if it can handle broadband? Eircom will do nothing as my line is 6.5 km long. BT would give 2 mbit (barely) on the same line.

Anyway, these speed increases are to be welcomed as this will stimulate more usage for broadband like IPTV and downloading proper, full length, legal movies. Eventually I see broadband allowing people to connect to each other from any point on the world as if they were on a LAN with higher latency. A speed increase brings this ever closer.

But from a selfish point of view availability should come first, not capacity. I would be much happier if I heard eircom were rolling out ADSL to more exchanges.

Btw well said OfflerCrocGod

Steffano2002

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

You seem to be arguing from a position of ignorance. I get the feeling you don't understand what a proper telecoms regulator is for or what IPTV was about until it was explained to you. Simply because *you* don't see how these services that are offered to people in other countries can be offered to us in Ireland doesn't mean there aren't others who do.

In countries with a proper, strong regulator the market is deeper penetrated and more advanced; €ircon have a very compliant regulator in comwreck who is happy to do nothing to open up the market to competition - it's not just us on Boards who are angry at this even competing companies like EsatBT, Smart, Digiweb are angry at the hopeless comwreck. Even the goverment is beginning to get embarrassed at our record. We are on a par with Turkey, Greece and Mexico in the internet stakes, several ex-communist Eastern European states are ahead of us. I don't care what deluded arguments you make about how difficult Ireland is for BB *we should not* be in danger of slipping behind countries like Turkey!

Our size is meaningless all the nordic countries are far better then us; the difference between us and them is that they have competent regulators and goverments while we have idiots and clowns. Our competitiveness, our future prospects and abilities are being seriously undermined and damaged by our clueless regulator and goverment.

They think phone support jobs are "high-tech".

Well I don't think it could have been said any better...

Laguna

Kristok wrote:

Yup thats my position ignorance, ive actually not posted anything other than ignorant posts your so spot on thanks for pointing that out to me well done you.

Well you seem to have adopted the "Ah sure **** it" attitude I was talking about in my lasdt post, you seem stuck in the mindset that we should put up with the fact Ireland is a joke on the internet infrastructure community and there's nothing we can do about it. If anything else, what did Irelandoffline prove?, that if you complain enough - you get results. Say nothing and you get nothing.

Kristok

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

You seem to be arguing from a position of ignorance. I get the feeling you don't understand what a proper telecoms regulator is for or what IPTV was about until it was explained to you. Simply because *you* don't see how these services that are offered to people in other countries can be offered to us in Ireland doesn't mean there aren't others who do.

In countries with a proper, strong regulator the market is deeper penetrated and more advanced; €ircon have a very compliant regulator in comwreck who is happy to do nothing to open up the market to competition - it's not just us on Boards who are angry at this even competing companies like EsatBT, Smart, Digiweb are angry at the hopeless comwreck. Even the goverment is beginning to get embarrassed at our record. We are on a par with Turkey, Greece and Mexico in the internet stakes, several ex-communist Eastern European states are ahead of us. I don't care what deluded arguments you make about how difficult Ireland is for BB *we should not* be in danger of slipping behind countries like Turkey!

Our size is meaningless all the nordic countries are far better then us; the difference between us and them is that they have competent regulators and goverments while we have idiots and clowns. Our competitiveness, our future prospects and abilities are being seriously undermined and damaged by our clueless regulator and goverment.

They think phone support jobs are "high-tech".

Yup thats my position ignorance, ive actually not posted anything other than ignorant posts your so spot on thanks for pointing that out to me well done you. Iptv is no more than a glorified webcast im sorry if im not all excited about it like you noone needed to explain it too me I just dont care its not something we have or something the average joe is going to want to pay for when you can just watch the same stuff on sky digital et all.

Like I said im not arguing about this anymore if your so sure your right reply with a plan on how eircom can connect every home in ireland with adsl 2 within the next 6 months as has been suggested we demand. And something more than just "They should just do it", tell me who is going to pay for it and who are going to be the customers excluding the people who already have bb cause they would I assume be automatically upgraded. Id like to know how much its going to cost cause im pretty sure it would bankrupt eircom even with the resources they have. Im being dead series if im so wrong then tell me exactly how it can be done cause ive seen nothing other than eircom bashing that they should just go do it and trust me im no fan of eircom but im just so ignorant I honestly cant see how it will work unless its built up gradually like in every other country in western europe but ill be waiting for your reply so you can explain it to me and my ignorance.

And no laguna I dont have a "Ah sure **** it" attitude I dont have any attitude at all if its possible in the real world then id be all for it, like say getting rid of the tole on the m50 I dont think its likly to happen but im all for kicking up a stink to try cause it is something that could realistically happen if not fairly unlikly.

Laguna

It's not half as expensive as you think to upgrade the current irish telecoms network than you think Kristok. Ireland already has a decent enough Fibre backbone, all Eircom would have to do is a simple few actions to improve their **** network by leaps and bounds (but they won't as they refuse to put money into a network when they plan to sell themselves out to another company)

1. Remove the pairgains/splitters on lines that are the main reason for line failure for people who live within the Eircom set boundary of 4.5km from the exchange.
2. Remove the 4.5km max distance from the exchange broadband rule, come on, Australia can get BB signals to travel 20km
3. DSL repeaters, a simple piece of technology that allows the further travel of DSL signals by taking in a DSL signal, amplifying it and passing it on

**** it, these simple points could be done in a month for the whole country, as you said yourself, Ireland is a small place. The ONLY reason it hasn't happened yet is because €ircon can NOT BE ****ING BOTHERED. They halted broadband coming to this country as it was deemed to hurt their lucrative dial up sales, they're stalling on improving internet infrastructure because they want to rake as much money as possible AND they were planning to sell themselves off (why bother upgrade a network you're going to sell?)...

Kristok

Oh so its just an arbitrary number 4.5km they actually could be running the lines up to 20km oh yea its so simple. For some reason I had it in my head that it was because of the type of equipment they implimented so maby if im right it might be actually a case of replacing the equipment in the exchanges but sure that can be done in a month I suppose.

Well what about the lines that cant handle it ? how many 10's of tousands of lines would they have to replace that rats etc have exposed. So they are going to do all this public works in a month ? Funny cause from what ive read they where struggling to keep the network they have running the lines are that bad in some areas.

Yes the splitters would open up many estates to braodband, again after they lay new lines to compensate for the ones the splitters removed the need for, more public works you plan to do in a month.

As for these public works they will need to employ new staff or contract it out to companies to do, im sure it wouldnt cost too much to take up tousands of miles of cable.

Again no plan just the usual they should just do it cause another country did it, something your forgetting is these countries didnt just decide over night they wanted adsl2 they developed it over time something like eircom are doing.

Oh and about the fact that eircom couldnt be bothered doing it because they want to keep profits going, well what happens when the fixed line customers all stop paying their 20k t1 bills and get a 50 euro adsl 2 connection instead. So they invest a fortune (still no figures on how much it is likly to cost from anyone) and make this massive network advance and loose their biggest customers. Assuming they dont cap the new adsl2 network they just built they will also have to pay for the extra bandwidth which if the pundits here are to be believed is going to be massive with all this iptv and whatever else is flying around. Again all after they loose their biggest clients and spent a fortune building an upgraded network for some reason the numbers all seem to be minus signs to me when exactly do they make a profit from all this expenditure? Oh and then to get the customers they are going to have to fight off ntl and sky for market share which is going to cost a small fortune in itself in advertising costs cause the average joe is not going to understand why he would be better off with this product which im assuming you probably want to cost even less. Try again maby this time without the they should just do it attitude.