Eircom trials 5Mbps broadband service

Mutant_Fruit

Kristok wrote:

Iptv is no more than a glorified webcast im sorry if im not all excited about it like you noone needed to explain it too me I just dont care its not something we have or something the average joe is going to want to pay for when you can just watch the same stuff on sky digital

But supposing you told the average joe that he could get telephone, internet and 100 TV channels for €50 a month in a bundle, i think he'd gladly ditch his sky digital and his existing broadband to get this new ADSL2 package. Thus making a great saving!

Now, tell me how thats not interesting! Full quality HDTV stations streaming down to you via the same lines as your broadband. Thats not half bad! Of course, you'd have a little "Sky digital" type box on your TV to watch the channels, but thats not so bad.

Laguna

WHEN DID I SAY I THOUGHT IRELAND SHOULD HAVE AN ASDL2 NETWORK?

I think it is perfectly achievable for Eircom to supply ASDL technology to EVERYONE in this country. Actually, no I've changed my mind, your attitude is far more easier to implement

"Nothing can be done, poor old eircom can't afford to put a few quid back into an industry they've a monopoly over, how dare anyone go above their station and expect to be able to get a basic DSL service regardless of where you live in the year 2005"

This country has a lot of people who love to make excuses as to why *this* scheme isn't in place or why *that* doesn't exist, sure, while we're at it, lets blame the English for not having broadband, that's de rigeur nowadays.

Kristok

You want 24mb adsl then you cant have it on adsl 1, isnt that what you guys are arguing about that we should all have 24mb connections and that there is something to use on it.

If you think its perfectly achievable for everyone to get adsl then tell us how thats not going to bankrupt eircom an actual plan that dosnt end with they should just do it. BT still dont have all their customers on adsl in britian because of the same issues and they are far more advanced down the bb routh than ireland.

I dont have any attitute im simply stating the reality that it cant be done not in the timescale you desire. I have no idea what your on about blaming the english for us not having bb you just plucked that one out of the air.

skywalker

To_be_confirmed wrote:

But from a selfish point of view availability should come first, not capacity. I would be much happier if I heard eircom were rolling out ADSL to more exchanges.

In fairness its not that selfish, I think everyone on here would love to see availability being propirty number 1. We all remember what it was like before we could get BB.

PiE

Kristok wrote:

Horsesh*t

Maybe if they'd invested in the technology and infrastructure over the past 5-6 years rather than bleeding the company/country for as much money as possible, it would be quite feasible to give ADSL/ADSL2 to the majority of the country?

Please stop talking, you have no idea what you're arguing about... as proven by your lack of IPTV knowledge.

bk

kaizersoze wrote:

Sky have already signed a deal with Magnet for this. "Sky by Wire" it's called.
http://www.magnet.ie/news/24-10-05.shtml

FYI, this is slightly different to Sky buying LLU companies in the UK, this is just Sky leaving ADSL companies retransmit it's channels, it is no different to it's agreements with NTL and Chorus.

Blaster99 wrote:

I'm a little sceptical when it comes to TV over ADSL. As things stand, I don't think ADSL has the speed capability over longer distances that makes IPTV a universally viable service. Nothing really to do with Ireland as such.

I agree with you, I also remain unconvinced that IPTV can scale for multiple TV's, specially with HD. And we aren't the only ones, Verizon, the largest teleco in the US agrees and are instead rolling out FTTH.

Kristok wrote:

IPTV or something simular was trialed by eircom (hotwire i think it was called) and was a waste of money and they would be crazy to do it again without a guaranteed market which is not available yet.

You are right about this, but you obviously don't know or understand the full story behind it. 5 years ago NTL started rolling out cable BB, Eircom was extremely frightened by this, as NTL would be able to offer the triple play of BB, phone and TV, which is very attractive to customers as they only get one bill and a much lower price then getting the services separately. Eircom knew that they would lose a large percentage of their customers to NTL.

So in order to fight back they started trialing DSL technology and encoding servers capable of transmitting TV over DSL, so that they could also offer the triple play, however the equipment was cutting edge and very expensive. Fortunately for Eircom NTL in the UK went bankrupt (not in Ireland, NTL:Ireland has always been profitable) and the rollout of BB was stopped. So Eircom breathed a sigh of relief, dumped the expensive gear and went with cheaper ADSL gear.

Interestingly Eircom are faced by the same threat again, NTL has restarted their BB rollout again and Eircom should be very scared again. In fact their are rumours that Eircom is looking at IPTV technology again.

Kristok wrote:

Yup thats my position ignorance, ive actually not posted anything other than ignorant posts your so spot on thanks for pointing that out to me well done you. Iptv is no more than a glorified webcast im sorry if im not all excited about it like you noone needed to explain it too me I just dont care its not something we have or something the average joe is going to want to pay for when you can just watch the same stuff on sky digital et all.

I'm sorry, but most of your posts have shown a distinct lack of understanding of the technology involved or the industry that you are talking about.

While I have my own doubts on the scalabilty of IPTV, it is based on a technical understanding of the technology, that actually does work quiet well in most circumstances.

IPTV is no more a webcast then cable TV is or a DVD. It simply takes the TV transmission from a fibre optic or satellite feed and encodes it using MPEG2 (at about 4mb/s for a SD transmission, only slightly less then DVD quality) or the newer MPEG4 standard and retransmits it over a IP network. The picture and sound quality should be just as good as satellite or cable. At Joe Blogs end the encoded signal enters a box on top of his TV and he watches it on his TV. Joe Blog uses his remote for surfing the channels in exactly the same way he does with cable or satellite. For Joe Blog the experience is exactly the same as cable or satellite digital TV.

You are right, Joe Blogs won't know or care about IPTV, in the same way that he doesn't know anything about or care about DVB-S (the standard for satellite transmission) or DVB-C (the standard for cable transmission), instead he will just be buying TV as part of a package along with telephone and BB.

Kristok wrote:

Like I said im not arguing about this anymore if your so sure your right reply with a plan on how eircom can connect every home in ireland with adsl 2 within the next 6 months as has been suggested we demand. And something more than just "They should just do it", tell me who is going to pay for it and who are going to be the customers excluding the people who already have bb cause they would I assume be automatically upgraded. Id like to know how much its going to cost cause im pretty sure it would bankrupt eircom even with the resources they have. Im being dead series if im so wrong then tell me exactly how it can be done cause ive seen nothing other than eircom bashing that they should just go do it and trust me im no fan of eircom but im just so ignorant I honestly cant see how it will work unless its built up gradually like in every other country in western europe but ill be waiting for your reply so you can explain it to me and my ignorance.

While Eircom certainly can't connect every home with ADSL2+ in 6 months and nobody here said that and most people on this board know that they can't. However having said that Eircom is currently busily upgrading their DSLAMS to ADSL2+. Note that Eircom use the Alcatel 7300 ASAM (DSLAM), these DSLAMs are second generation DSLAMS and can be relatively easily (but not necessarily cheaply) upgraded to ADSL2+:
http://www.alcatel.com/products/productsummary.jhtml;jsessionid=DNO5KLBJJ4YHACTFR0GU1EAKMWHI23GC?relativePath=/com/en/appxml/opgproduct/alcatel7301advancedservicesaccessmanagerasametsiversiontcm228114971635.jhtml

But it certainly isn't as hard or expensive as you make it out to be. And why are they upgrading? Because they have no choice, there is a lot of competition coming and they must compete. The new LLU companies like Smart and Magnet, because they are so new, are skipping ADSL DSLAMs and going straight to ADSL2+ DSLAMs. NTL is currently using DOCSIS 2 (speeds up to about 12mb/s) and can easily move to DOCSIS 3 when available (50mb/s - 100mb/s with relative ease), even the wireless companies are offfering higher speeds.

All these companies are going to be offering the triple play of voice, video and BB in the next 6 months. Eircom most also deliver a triple play service to compete with all these companies or they will start losing many customers to them. The 5mb/s speeds coming soon are simply a stop gap until Eircom completes their ADSL2+ rollout.

Of course this will only be to existing DSL enabled exchanges, it still won't help people who can't currently get BB.

DemonOfTheFall

kristok, you said in a post back up there that you can get 24meg on ADSL 1, no you can't. Any company offering 24meg is doing it over ADSL 2. It's really not that hard to do.

As for defending Ireland on the basis of being a low population country centered on big cities, thats a pathetic ****ty excuse.

I was in finland on my holidays in the summer. Spent a nite with a couple who lived in a small, really old house which was about a 2 kilometres down a small lane. That lane was coming off a main road, and was at least a 10 minute drive to the nearest town. That nearby town was SMALL. No more than 3000 people for sure. Guess what ? He had 5meg down 512k up DSL2. It cost him like 30 euro a month.

In Helsinki there were ads all over the place for 24 meg DSL for 50€ a month, including phone.

In the suburbs of Lahti, another place where we stayed, in another quite old house in an old area, they had 3meg down 1 meg up DSL. I'm pretty sure it wasnt costing them a fortune.

People like you, with your attitudes; "ah sure its only ireland", are the reason why disgusting monopolies like eircom get away with providing sub-standard, crappy services, and let you lick their feet for the priviledge.

I'd say if it was up to you we'd still be on 2x ISDN for a whopping 128k. "Ah sure u can stream realmedia over that and it's fast enough for a couple of game". "what would you need DSL for".

lucernarian

Originally posted by Kristok:
Oh so its just an arbitrary number 4.5km they actually could be running the lines up to 20km oh yea its so simple. For some reason I had it in my head that it was because of the type of equipment they implimented so maby if im right it might be actually a case of replacing the equipment in the exchanges but sure that can be done in a month I suppose.

Yes it is simple to extend the range for ADSL, at least to about 6 km. And the above was an example of your ignorance of broadband in Ireland. I guess you don't know that BT use the same aforementioned DSLAMs as eircom use.

PiE

PiE wrote:

Please stop talking

.

bk

Kristok wrote:

Oh so its just an arbitrary number 4.5km they actually could be running the lines up to 20km oh yea its so simple. For some reason I had it in my head that it was because of the type of equipment they implimented so maby if im right it might be actually a case of replacing the equipment in the exchanges but sure that can be done in a month I suppose.

Sort of, Eircom uses more or less the same DSLAMS as BT, who operate at much further distances. Eircoms problems seem to lie with the software they use very testing line quality.

For instance I had DSL for about 2 years (I've got NTL now) during that time I use to check my line regularly, just out of interest. I found that one month my line would pass, the next it would fail and this happened pretty much from month to month. Despite this my DSL continued to work fine all that time!!! The line test Eircom do have little relevancce on weither you can really get BB or not.

In the UK BT don't test lines anymore, since they have 99% coverage, they simply send you the modem and if it doesn't work they send out an engineer to try and fix the line.

Freddie59

Kristok wrote:

ah who needs 24 mb lines theres nothing to use on it, 3 mb is just enough the upload speed increase will help sort out the gaming and voip probs. Hopefully esat will up the cap to at least 30 this time aswell.

Didn't the chairman of IBM in the 60s say at the time that he thought that there would be a market for about five or six personal computers in the entire world..........:eek:

PixelTrawler

twas the late 40's but yip he did

JackieChan

Then again, computers were larger than most peoples sitting rooms then.

Invention of the transistors and advances in semi-conductors were some time away.

dubhthach

JackieChan wrote:

Then again, computers were larger than most peoples sitting rooms then.

Invention of the transistors and advances in semi-conductors were some time away.

Up until the 1980's the only computers you could do serious work on tend to be the size of a full Rack. (i'm talking mini-computers)

drrnwbb

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

In Helsinki there were ads all over the place for 24 meg DSL for 50€ a month, including phone.

In the suburbs of Lahti, another place where we stayed, in another quite old house in an old area, they had 3meg down 1 meg up DSL. I'm pretty sure it wasnt costing them a fortune.

just as clarification on that... that 24mbit/1mbit adsl2 connection is 69euros per month (here in helsinki), with a 2 or 4mbit connection working out at about 35euros per month. my own adsl is 1mbit/1mbit and is 24,50€ per month.

as far as i can see all residental broadband adsl connections here in finland have a maximum of 1mbit upload. (i dont think any connection has a cap)

if ye want to see what we can get here in helsinki have a look at this page


dw

DemonOfTheFall

Close enough, couldnt quite remember the ins and outs.

Finland is a nice place, and not just for the net connections.

Julez

Just did a speed test, and my upload has now doubled! Anyone elses doubled yet?!

OfflerCrocGod

Julez wrote:

Just did a speed test, and my upload has now doubled! Anyone elses doubled yet?!

I don't think so. I can't be certain as someone else is downloading on the line. Anyway, what exchange are you on and what BB package are you on? Of course with whom and has your download also increased?

vibe666

the speed tests are quite often very inaccurate for one reason or another. I've had one report a 7mbps upload on a 2mbps line before now, and everything in between.

Kristok, you've already proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that you really have no idea what you're talking about, but you seem intent on arguing just for the sake of it. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself, so you might want to take pie's advise and just stop talking.

in most places in the world, technology and infrastructure preceeds the need for it. when the internet first became public, there was no real need for it. when motorways were built in the US, and europe, they weren't really needed to the extent that they were built, but they were built anyway, because some people can see past the end of their noses and to a time when we won't be able to live without these things.

when broadband was first introduced, nobody needed it because they were doing just fine with their dial up modems, but as it was introduced new ways of using the internet surfaced, and those that were good flourished (P2P, Multimedia, VoIP, etc. etc.) and filled the gap that these new technologies created.

all over the world, communications companies are upgrading (or have upgraded) their old ADSL networks to ADSL2+ or higher (FTTC, FTTH in some cases) because they recognise an emerging need for faster speeds to enable more types content and to expand existing ones, yet in Ireland we're just settling in to the use of first generation technology. 2 years from now, if something isn't done to improve things dramatically, countries like Turkey, Mexico etc. are going to be laughing at how backwards we are because they will have overtaken us and caught up with the rest of the world and we'll still be spending days downloading single episodes of our favourite shows because of a lack of speed.

5 years ago I lived in Tenerife and had a 512/256 (12:1) DSL connection. I know it's technically a part of Spain, but in reality its part of a small cluster of islands off the coast of west Africa. Then I moved to Ireland, into Dublin, and had to wait over a year before broadband was even available where I lived.

[align=right]13.16.137.10[/align]

Obo

Netsource have updated their service status page showing which exchanges will be updated for the test on the 5th. No indication if this is just for Netsource or all the eircom resellers.

http://www.netsource.ie/html/servicestatus.html

Customer Notification 29th November 2005

There is a planned upgrade for systems connected through four exchanges : Malahide, Walkinstown , Carrigaline and Claremorris. The upgrade is part of a test which will increase the download and upload speeds of customers on these exchanges commencing December 5th at 20:00 Hrs ( 8 PM ). The upgrade is expected to be completed by 08:00 Hrs on Tuesday 6th December. Customers should not experience any service downtime during the upgrade – however, if any user does experience a break in a session service can be reestablished after two minutes by rebooting their Broadband Modem.

Kristok

vibe666 wrote:

Kristok, you've already proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that you really have no idea what you're talking about, but you seem intent on arguing just for the sake of it. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself, so you might want to take pie's advise and just stop talking.

Ive already stopped bothering trying to have any sort of civilised conversation in this thread not a single reply has had anything other than kristok your ignorant and eircom should just do it replys. Not a single reply on how they can actually do it without going bankrupt the only embarrassment here is the debating abilities of you guys because its like arguing with children who think they know everything but really dont have a clue.

Lex_Diamonds

Are you ever wrong? Ask yourself that question.

It might just be conceivable that you are wrong. Sorry.

Kristok

Already said if i am wrong then tell me how eircom are going to provide what your asking for without going bankrupt. Ive no problem admitting if im wrong but tell me how rather than just saying im ignorant cause calling names when you dont have an answer is what children do and besides one or two people noone has actually tried to give any answers and as I said im not arguing about it anymore tell me how it can be done all the name calling does is make me laugh and prove to me that im right.

Julez

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

I don't think so. I can't be certain as someone else is downloading on the line. Anyway, what exchange are you on and what BB package are you on? Of course with whom and has your download also increased?

Yeah, sorry it went up to 256 from 128 but its 128 again now! I'm with eircom, home starter I think! Maybe they were testing it or something, or just an error on the test?!

lucernarian

Originally posted by Kristok
Already said if i am wrong then tell me how eircom are going to provide what your asking for without going bankrupt. Ive no problem admitting if im wrong but tell me how rather than just saying im ignorant cause calling names when you dont have an answer is what children do and besides one or two people noone has actually tried to give any answers and as I said im not arguing about it anymore tell me how it can be done all the name calling does is make me laugh and prove to me that im right.

What about the line distance limit??? Is there something uneconomical about enabling a line >5 km just to see how it will work out?? If it doesn't work I can send back the modem or pay for an engineer to see what he can do to get it working. Truth is that eircon couldn't care less if I have bb or not. I don't think I'm asking much. I don't care if I don't have ADSL2 or whatever, a plain 1 mbit connection would keep me happy.

Perhaps you are simply making the point that eircom can't be expected to provide ADSL2+ speeds on every line in Ireland. That is quite fair and eircom, as a company with a duty to look after shareholder's money, can't be expected to enable every single exchange singlehandedly.

That does NOT mean that eircom can get away with allowing the deteriorating network to deteriorate further in the late '90s. Economics does NOT mean that they can get away with fleecing any competitor who steps foot on an eircom exchange. It does NOT mean that eircom shouldn't give a **** when a customer lives a mile or two outside the limit, when DSL can still work, either.

It's interesting to see that the upgrades are going ahead already. I wonder why they are using Carraigaline as one of the test locations? It's good to see rural places being upgraded quickly though.

Laguna

To_be_confirmed wrote:

What about the line distance limit??? Is there something uneconomical about enabling a line >5 km just to see how it will work out?? If it doesn't work I can send back the modem or pay for an engineer to see what he can do to get it working. Truth is that eircon couldn't care less if I have bb or not. I don't think I'm asking much. I don't care if I don't have ADSL2 or whatever, a plain 1 mbit connection would keep me happy.

Perhaps you are simply making the point that eircom can't be expected to provide ADSL2+ speeds on every line in Ireland. That is quite fair and eircom, as a company with a duty to look after shareholder's money, can't be expected to enable every single exchange singlehandedly.

That does NOT mean that eircom can get away with allowing the deteriorating network to deteriorate further in the late '90s. Economics does NOT mean that they can get away with fleecing any competitor who steps foot on an eircom exchange. It does NOT mean that eircom shouldn't give a **** when a customer lives a mile or two outside the limit, when DSL can still work, either.

It's interesting to see that the upgrades are going ahead already. I wonder why they are using Carraigaline as one of the test locations? It's good to see rural places being upgraded quickly though.

Why are you bothering to reply to Kristok?, all he'll do (in one long sentence, without grammar) is ask how can Eircom be expected to give broadband to everyone without them becoming bankrupt (something he's said in every post), just throw your hands up in the air and admit defeat, his attitude is in the majority in this country, you're not going to win. Something Kristok should ask himself is WHY he cant see Eircom have put Ireland in this dire situation in the first place. The man seems to have a fundamental lack when confronted with people who are dissatisfied with the state of the network. Kristok, save yourself replying as you only say the one thing, I'll do it for you

Kristok wrote:

Already said if i am wrong then tell me how eircom are going to provide what your asking for without going bankrupt.

daveyjoe

I'm on the Carrigaline exchange with UTV 1mb package, I'll try and keep everyone updated on December 5th/6th.

jimmycrackcorm

Laguna wrote:

Why are you bothering to reply to Kristok?, all he'll do (in one long sentence, without grammar) is ask how can Eircom be expected to give broadband to everyone without them becoming bankrupt (something he's said in every post), just throw your hands up in the air and admit defeat, his attitude is in the majority in this country, you're not going to win. Something Kristok should ask himself is WHY he cant see Eircom have put Ireland in this dire situation in the first place. The man seems to have a fundamental lack when confronted with people who are dissatisfied with the state of the network. Kristok, save yourself replying as you only say the one thing, I'll do it for you

Kristok would no doubt be shocked at companies such as Ryanair who can sell airline seats for 99c and still be more profitable than most competitors.

Perhaps he can shed some light on why compaines such as smart and magnet are installing adsl2+ equipment in the exchanges but yet Eircom persists with the same odl dsl technology in newly installed exchanges. After all if they started putting in the newer technology - at least they would have greater reach in those exchanges.

Remember how expensive and elitist mobile phones were when eircell began and there was no O2. There was no thought then that subsidising the phones would bring greater revenues despite what was happeing in the UK at the time. It is this type of monopolistic thinking that has given the crap broadband situation we are in.


However I suspect there is a bit of the old P+T remaining. :rolleyes:

Willymuncher

daveyjoe wrote:

I'm on the Carrigaline exchange with UTV 1mb package, I'll try and keep everyone updated on December 5th/6th.

If you could keep us up to date it'd be great, I'd love to know if it'll affect UTV/BT users....I know it'll be upgraded for Eircom/Netsource but so far no word has come from the other companies on if they'll participate in the trial, which I'm guessing they will seeing as its just reselling Eircoms package anyway :-/ but ya never know.

OfflerCrocGod

Willymuncher wrote:

If you could keep us up to date it'd be great, I'd love to know if it'll affect UTV/BT users....I know it'll be upgraded for Eircom/Netsource but so far no word has come from the other companies on if they'll participate in the trial, which I'm guessing they will seeing as its just reselling Eircoms package anyway :-/ but ya never know.

They have no choice all they are doing is offering the exact same package as eircon; eircon upgrade ALL they don't need to differentiate between providers because in monopoly land there is only one provider