ClearWire & Bittorrent

philologos

whats MegaNet??

Vadrefjorde

Guys the non P2P friendly ISP's have long since moved on from the days of blocking ports and posts have been repeated on the sublect time and time again on boards. The offending ISP's have a lot more resources available nowadays to shape traffic flow and as has already been said here time and again, AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.
DPI (deep packet inspection) is the order of the day and can kill traffic flow within seconds of it being initiated, recognising the signature of the traffic as opposed to the port.
Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Antanas

Vadrefjorde wrote:

Guys the non P2P friendly ISP's have long since moved on from the days of blocking ports and posts have been repeated on the sublect time and time again on boards. The offending ISP's have a lot more resources available nowadays to shape traffic flow and as has already been said here time and again, AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.
DPI (deep packet inspection) is the order of the day and can kill traffic flow within seconds of it being initiated, recognising the signature of the traffic as opposed to the port.
Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Good point made. I had employed some of my technical colleagues to clarify my case and the information was the same as quoted above. DPI is used to cripple P2P packets and no ports are blocked just as stated by ISP's tech support.

RangeR

Vadrefjorde wrote:

AVOID these ISP's, vote with your feet and they'll finally get the message.

Why people still sign up with digiweb (in all it's various flavours), clearwire, IBB etc.. that employ this tactic beggars belief

Seriously, people know what they are getting themselves into when they sign up for ISP's. In this day and age when everyone knows about P2P, you would have to be totally naive to assume that P2P won't be blocked. Can you name one ISP in Ireland that either doesn't block / shape P2P or states somewhere in their T's & C's that abusing the network to the detriment of others won't be tolerated?

Can you name ANY ISP in Ireland that doesn't state in their T's & C's that illegal use of their network is prohibited? I think not.

As far as I know, it's in all of them [waiting to be corrected as I'm not 100% sure on the first point]

And you think that you [not you personally, Vadrefjorde, but you in general] have a god given right to access some other network on YOUR terms. This just doesn't happen. You do not have a right to use ANY network that is not your own for illegal means. And by this, I mean using P2P to download / upload music / movies / tv shows / software / whatever illegaly, hack, , botnet, whatever.

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet. The owner of the network, Clearwire in this case, can do what they want with it once they provide the service that they have committed to within the terms and conditions of that described service.

neelix26

im on clearwire for the last month, and have all the same problems as you guys, called customer service today and the girl logged my complaint. also spoke to the technician that installed it and was told id be called back but no...
think ill be moving on.. any reccomendations?? no phone line..

i had IBB before this and thought it was bad but this is half as fast again...!!

the_syco

[V3] wrote:

In fact I open like 50000 ports for bittorent

This is your problem. As it only uses the 1st 4 ports, for the 1st 4 downloads, the rest won't be used. Also, those 1st 4 may be not the best. Try to change to different ports, and you'll get a good 10 ports to use.

oscarBravo

IrishTLR wrote:

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people fail to realise this.

Hoodle

IrishTLR wrote:

What gives you the right to use your internet connection fully on your terms? You are only renting bandwith on a private network that just happens to be connected to the internet. The owner of the network, Clearwire in this case, can do what they want with it once they provide the service that they have committed to within the terms and conditions of that described service.

Maybe if people talk via their feet and wallets they'll see what rights we demand considering we'll be paying 50 euro a month for the 'privilege' of renting their server space. Once they start making losses then they'll see that consumers hold weight.

Peanut

deconstruct wrote:

I haven't received notice that certain applications such as P2P are now being closed down. I rang them last night and their Customer Support rep agreed with me. He claimed P2P traffic had crippled their network and that they are planning on not allowing any access to P2P over their network full stop. :mad:

Good move by them, wireless broadband + p2p don't mix.

neelix26

what are you on about you idiot, why would you want broadband that you caqn only use for certain things for the same money. got an email asking me to reccomend them the other day,and i replied saying that i wouldnt because the service is rubbish to which i got my long awaited call back from the disgruntled technician saying hed look into it.. :-p

RangeR

neelix26 wrote:

what are you on about you idiot, why would you want broadband that you caqn only use for certain things for the same money. got an email asking me to reccomend them the other day,and i replied saying that i wouldnt because the service is rubbish to which i got my long awaited call back from the disgruntled technician saying hed look into it.. :-p

Would you mind clarifying who you are calling a spa and an idiot?

From what you have written, you sound like someone in or around the 15 to 18 age bracket. If I am correct people of that age group have the mentality that they want everything now. Everything, even if they are not entitled to it. Even if what they want is illegal. Even if it could possibly be to your detriment. They still want it.

A quick reminder about P2P. Ireland lost out on that race. We got broadband too late. Yes people have been using P2P software for years without being stopped. Why? Because the likes or IRMA didn't know about it or didn't care because it wasn't mainstream. They didn't see a handful of people being a threat. The same with MP3's in the early to mid 1990's. I remember, back when I was 18 or 19, when I used to freely download MP3's from loads of websites and Napster. The record companies were very slow to react because even the Internet wasn't mainstream. But as the numbers grew, they got worried. They didn't embrace the medium but fought against it. But that is going slightly off topic.

These days, IRMA and their ilk, are attempting to come down hard on file sharers. It is "unfiortunate" that we as a country joined this great revolution of file sharing after everyone else had tried it and the proper "authorities" were informed.

When I say attempting, I mean that they will try. It's up to the courts and lawyers to see which way it goes. But I'm sure IRMA will intimidate a good few outside of the courts. Just to get headline news.

I will ask the question again. What gives you the right to DEMAND that ANY ISP allows you to do something illegal on their private network?

I know what I say here will have no bearing on your frame of mind on the subject, but as I said, that is the mentality of your age group. You want to be able to do what you want to do, regardless of whether it is illegal or not. I'm sure the ISP's don't care if you want to do something illegal but they sure aren't going to help you do it with their network.

I applaud Clearwire and only hope that they can fend off the pressure to free up the P2P ports. Some of us have work to do and P2P traffic slows us down and clogs the networ needlesly.

I am pretty sure other ISP's will follow suit in time.

neelix26

youve just proved me right mate..:D
you are an idiot plain and simple, you didnt get where i was coming from at all and theres a clue to my age in my username..
i use it for work as well, my point is why would you want broadband that limits you when there are isps that dont! i dont think there would be many other people who would argue with that and if they do they should join you in the nuthouse..haha..
i quote you "some of us have to work", seems you still can make the time to post big long piles of drivel though!

RangeR

The reaon I have time to post long posts, not that it's any of your business, is that my Clearwire has gone down and I'm on backup but too slow to work.

In this debate, I am entitled to my opinion without prejudice, as are you. I didn't stoop to personal insults.

Anywho... Reported for personal abuse.

antodeco

What I cant understand is that people complain about how they cant use p2p to get songs/videos etc. Why dont people PAY for napster/itunes? Thats not p2p It seems that people would rather complain about not doing something legit, than rather paying for a service and being able to use it no problems. I use itunes, and can download songs very fast. Imesh on the other hands runs about 5kps at most. Im happy to use itunes and clearwire, because it works no problem because it works legit. Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal. People are happy to use other services that they pay for, so why not itunes?
I know people are going to say that they already pay clearwire for a service, but they give you access, thats all.
If you get a taxi to mcdonalds, do you expect the taximan to get out and pay for your food?
If you ring a taxi company and tell them you want a taxi to bring you to a shop that you are going to rob, do you think that they will send a taxi out?
Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you. I know not every p2p is illegal, but its the large majority, and thats what causes the problems for everybody else. Is every under 25 male driver a dangerous driver? no, yet we are discriminated because of the large majority.
in 12 months time every ISP will block p2p, because of new legislation coming in the new year. people are burning their bridges now with isps, and will be left out in the cold when ISPs turn around and tell them, due to previous activites, they will not accept you onto their service.
All i can is, I wait for the day this happens. Boards will be very quiet!

bitelz

antodeco wrote:

Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

you don't seriously believe this, do you?
why don't people make their own shoes? it's perfectly legal...
they don't make them, cause they don't know how or they have other things to do. same with booze. there is no reason why making alcohol should be illegal. that's just one more government monopoly, like An Post, Eircom or Garda.
the thing with copyright. yeah, copyright is fine in theory. what is wrong in practice is that we, the taxpayers, sponsor police to go out and enforce someone else's rights. it should be the content owners (Sony, BMI, etc) hiring their own lawyers, police etc. and go hunting for P2P users.
if you leave your car unlocked, key in the ignition, etc. no insurance company or police will treat you seriously. if you engage in a business and "own" digital content, that any child can copy and multiply without any hassle, it's your own fault that. wanna do something about it, no problem, but don't go around robbing people from money to sponsor your own crusade.

Peanut

antodeco wrote:

.... Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

Homebrewing is not illegal ! (as long as it's not distilling, or selling)
It's also fun..

antodeco wrote:

..Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you.

No, they don't care really, unless there is a complaint. Even then they couldn't really care less. They're not being paid to enforce other people's copyright.

The reason p2p is restricted is because it makes it a lot more difficult to manage network traffic on a contended service.

antodeco wrote:

..in 12 months time every ISP will block p2p, because of new legislation coming in the new year.

That's not going to happen - it would be like trying to make legislation to enforce blocking of spam.

Vadrefjorde

antodeco wrote:

Why doesnt everybody make their own alcohol and drink it, rather than paying the high prices in pubs? Because people know that its illegal.

AFAIK home brew shops still exist in this country albeit only a few. Maybe we should send the prohibition squad round to burn them down.:p

antodeco wrote:

If you ring a taxi company and tell them you want a taxi to bring you to a shop that you are going to rob, do you think that they will send a taxi out?
Its the same principle, if ISP's know that you are going to do something illegal, they wont let you. I know not every p2p is illegal, but its the large majority, and thats what causes the problems for everybody else. Is every under 25 male driver a dangerous driver? no, yet we are discriminated because of the large majority.

Interesting analogy there, here's mine. FORD build cars that are clearly designed to operate at speed over and above the national speed limit which is clearly not what they were intended for. This is clearly a breach of the traffic regulations and we have many lobby groups pointing the finger of blame, Young drivers, government, archaic road netwoks. Yet nobody points the finger of blame at FORD. Here's what we should do: The government should put pressure on FORD to check whether a potential customer has been caught speeding and refuse to supply him with a car should he have "burnt his bridges before". A database of names could be collated and shared amongst all car manufacturers.

neelix26

the fact of the matter is that clearwire are signing people up for a service they are not providing. you cant just sign people up without telling them and then say oh by the way, you cant use p2p. it should be stated at time of install.. im sure youd find there company will not be doing as well as they are now..! they dont care about you, just your money..

Vadrefjorde

neelix26 wrote:

the fact of the matter is that clearwire are signing people up for a service they are not providing. you cant just sign people up without telling them and then say oh by the way, you cant use p2p. it should be stated at time of install.. im sure youd find there company will not be doing as well as they are now..! they dont care about you, just your money..

I couldn't agree more but the fact is that the "fair use policy" is incorporated in to practically all ISPs. What i can't understand is that peolpe still sign up with these ISP's that enforce restrictions when there are more "user friendly" ISP's out there. First it was P2P that certain ISP's were complaining about, now it's streaming audio etc... Wise up people these guys just jumped on the bandwagon of "file sharing is illegal" but streaming audio isn't? They're only concerned with bandwith usage, illegal or not which btw is ridiculously cheap!

As with anything there is a way around current restrictions that are being imposed by these ISP's and this trend is being taken in the UK by many that haven't yet had their ISP's impose restrictions on them. I can only foresee the same thing happening in this country.

neelix26

how do you know that man?

Moriarty

neelix26 banned for personal abuse.