The british and Irish Isles.

Maskhadov

The british and Irish Isles.

I think we should start a campaign to change the offical title for the isles of the north west coast of mainland Europe to be re named "the British and Irish Isles". Everyone still refers to it as the "British Isles" even though we left the United Kingdom in the early part of the last century. Even on maps today the "British Isles" is still used and it shouldnt be.

The BBC is guilty of using this term as well and it is incorrect. If France were an Island beside Britain then it would be called the French and British Isles or vise versa.

I think the term belongs to the last days of the british empire and things have changed a great deal. I accept that we share many common values and traditions between the two islands but our own identity should be recognised seperately.

The IRFU was successful in renaming the "British Lions" to the "British and Irish Lions". So politicans can follow suit!!

Yae or nae ?

Agent Smith

or just do what i do


Call it the British Isle's and Ireland

The Corinthian

Personally I blame Pliny the elder.

Nuttzz

Maskhadov wrote:

T

The IRFU was successful in renaming the "British Lions" to the "British and Irish Lions". So politicans can follow suit!!

The same IRFU that gave us that Irelands Call tripe....

MicraBoy

It's a geographical entity not a political one. Get over it I say.

Royale with Cheese

Nae, get over it and devote your time to an actual worthwhile cause.

RuggieBear

and then let's change the name of the Irish Sea.

Oh wait it's geographical term that nobody should have issues with...

mike65

The Irish & British Sea sounds er long.

Wiki defintion

Anyone who gets in a huff about geographic terms needs to have more to do.

Its like the Portuguse moaning about the Iberian Peninsula.

Mike.

Flex

Maskhadov wrote:

The british and Irish Isles.

I think we should start a campaign to change the offical title for the isles of the north west coast of mainland Europe to be re named "the British and Irish Isles". Everyone still refers to it as the "British Isles" even though we left the United Kingdom in the early part of the last century. Even on maps today the "British Isles" is still used and it shouldnt be.

The BBC is guilty of using this term as well and it is incorrect. If France were an Island beside Britain then it would be called the French and British Isles or vise versa.

I think the term belongs to the last days of the british empire and things have changed a great deal. I accept that we share many common values and traditions between the two islands but our own identity should be recognised seperately.

The IRFU was successful in renaming the "British Lions" to the "British and Irish Lions". So politicans can follow suit!!

Yae or nae ?

I agree. Why include Ireland in that geographical term? It should be gotten rid of. As for people saying to get over it because its only a geographical term or whatever, i dont agree with that. Im sure people in Poland would object to being geographically classed as part of 'greater germany' or something for example and Portuguese people probably wouldnt like the Iberian peninsula to be called the 'Spanish peninsula'.

grubber

MicraBoy wrote:

It's a geographical entity not a political one. Get over it I say.

Agreed.
But what about the Middle East? Now there is a geographical nonsense.

Maskhadov

Im glad some people agree. Its not like its a particluarly hard and long phrase to say. It rolls off the tounge pretty easily and its based on equality .

Some of my points are hard to say, but here goes...

When we seperated from the UK we went out in decent enough terms (considering) and we didnt go crazy like some colonies and get rid of post boxes, place names, momuments, etc etc.

My only complaint is that the irish government should have got the british to accept the new name "british and Irish isles". Some might think im just being pedantic but there is a big difference.

Essentially we are a seperate country with a seperate identity but share a number of values with our nearest island. Based on equality and not inferiority we can do certain things together. A good example is sport. Whenever there is sucess/glory etc people dont associate those achievements with just one identity of the two islands (i.e british). They can see there is two seperate entities with some common values.

The british (i dont have anything against them btw) cant say that they have all the values that come from the two islands and are "British". They cant group everything together under one framework which fits their world view and say all the good attributes are their's.

At the moment they take the credit for all of the sucess/good light/whatever you want to call it and put it all under one word "british". Both of us are equal partners and we have many non tangable qualities that they dont have.

Maskhadov

MicraBoy wrote:

It's a geographical entity not a political one. Get over it I say.

The thing is that it is used for things that are non geographical. If you are on mainland europe the vast majority of people will bundle ireland in with britain even though we are pretty different to be fair.

Im not hung up on it but I do think its time we got this word changed and our own identity properly established.

The Corinthian

mike65 wrote:

Its like the Portuguse moaning about the Iberian Peninsula.

In fairness no as there is no Iberian with which the Portuguese may be confused with or offended by. A better example might be if Korea was considered part of a Japanese Peninsula.

Technically it should be Britain that changes its name, as it is incorrect. Britain is correctly a geographical term for the entire archipelago, however the largest of theses islands, incorrectly called (Great) Britain, is actually called Albion by the same origins that named the archipelago - the United Kingdom of Albion and Northern Ireland anyone?

Still, I’m not going to lose any sleep either way.

ishmael whale

RuggieBear wrote:

and then let's change the name of the Irish Sea.

Oh wait it's geographical term that nobody should have issues with...

It should be official renamed 'Mara Na Gael' on all maps. Otherwise our very culture will collapse and we will be helpless and impotent as the alien invader makes off with our womenfolk.

Dave!

I agree that it's a geographical term, not a political one, just like the Irish Sea.

therecklessone

Maskhadov wrote:

The british and Irish Isles.

I think we should start a campaign to change the offical title for the isles of the north west coast of mainland Europe to be re named "the British and Irish Isles". Everyone still refers to it as the "British Isles" even though we left the United Kingdom in the early part of the last century. Even on maps today the "British Isles" is still used and it shouldnt be.

They were called the British Isles before the Act of Union, so our leaving the Union should have no bearing on it.

The Corinthian

ishmael whale wrote:

Otherwise our very culture will collapse and we will be helpless and impotent as the alien invader makes off with our womenfolk.

Do we get to keep the eastern European chicks?

J.R.HARTLEY

therecklessone wrote:

They were called the British Isles before the Act of Union, so our leaving the Union should have no bearing on it.

exactly, some people here are ignorant of the facts and are getting all tiochadh ar la about it.
and it's not like poland being called greater germany, poland is known as eastern europe not greater germany, and even the term germany isn't right in geographical terms.

Maskhadov

therecklessone wrote:

They were called the British Isles before the Act of Union, so our leaving the Union should have no bearing on it.

I think your missing my point. The british isles is not a term which is not relevant in todays world. It is something which has been carried on post our independence but it is really something that needs to be ammended.

It has nothing to do with nationalism, or the act of Union. It is simply based on equality and reconition of another nation state as opposed to the single entity that used to be there.

A petition would be a good start to get support. The british and Irish Lions is a fantastic example of what it should be like.

Maskhadov

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

exactly, some people here are ignorant of the facts and are getting all tiochadh ar la about it.
and it's not like poland being called greater germany, poland is known as eastern europe not greater germany, and even the term germany isn't right in geographical terms.

Its nothing to do with nationalism.. its equality. Im not sure on the exact origin of british but its connected to England, Scotland and Wales. Maybe it was all the island but the phrase is used to define a nation state. So what Im saying is that they should add in another word to reflect the fact that there are two nation states there.


Some people might think its pedantic but when you hear the British and Irish lions it far far better than just the british lions and having that feeling that it was just something that you had to go along with but werent really part of.

Flex

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

exactly, some people here are ignorant of the facts and are getting all tiochadh ar la about it.
and it's not like poland being called greater germany, poland is known as eastern europe not greater germany, and even the term germany isn't right in geographical terms.

I was using the term 'greater germany' ,as an example, to offer a hypothetical situation whereby Poland was known as part of 'greater germany' in geographical terms and how that would seem unacceptable to Polish people considering the bad history they have with Germany. Im aware Poland isnt a part of such a geographical area and (AFAIK) no such geographical area exists. Or how Portuguese people wouldnt want to be classed as part of the 'Spanish peninsula' simply because their sovereign and independant nation is near a larger nation known as Spain.

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with not wanting to have our country as a part of the 'British Isles' since we arnt british and our country isnt british either. The term 'British and Irish Isles' is far more suitable and inclusive.And Maskhadov, being a rugby fan, i agree with you about the Lions

LordSutch

Maskhadov wrote:

. My only complaint is that the irish government should have got the british to accept the new name "british and Irish isles". Some might think im just being pedantic but there is a big difference.

Dear oh dear Maskhadov you really do need to have a lie-down and some asprin and (maybe a joint) to chill out ................

The term "British Isles" is the universally recognised term for "Those islands located off the N/W coast of mainland Europe" they include the island of Britain, the island of Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and all smaller surrounding islands!

The term "British Isles" does not imply that you or Bertie might be British (God forbid) but it is indeed the Correct Geographical term as used by the Met office - Weather forcasters, navigators and everybody else for that matter! May I suggest that you get over it.

iguana

The island of Britain was so called by the Romans - Britannia. That term included the island which now makes up England, Wales and Scotland and smaller islands surrounding it. Ireland was not included in this entity, it was named Hibernia by the Romans and was never conquered by them.

The correct geographical term for the islands of Britain, Ireland, the Isles of Man & Wight and the Aran Islands is The British and Hibernian Isles. It was originally shortened to the British Isles by the British government to add a legitimacy to their rule of the entire region. Today it is called The British Isle's out of laziness and/or ignorance.

According to the British citizenship test Britain is the legal term for the island of Britain and Great Britain is the legal term for Britain, Northern Ireland and the Isles of Man and Wight.

A Dub in Glasgo

iguana wrote:

The island of Britain was so called by the Romans - Britannia. That term included the island which now makes up England, Wales and Scotland and smaller islands surrounding it. Ireland was not included in this entity, it was named Hibernia by the Romans and was never conquered by them.

The correct geographical term for the islands of Britain, Ireland, the Isles of Man & Wight and the Aran Islands is The British and Hibernian Isles. It was originally shortened to the British Isles by the British government to add a legitimacy to their rule of the entire region. Today it is called The British Isle's out of laziness and/or ignorance.

.

Exactly what I have been taught in Geography/History except Caledonia for part of Scotland

Imagine pointing out the inaccuracy of the current nomenclature for these islands and being called small minded by some

LordSutch

iguana wrote:

The island of Britain was so called by the Romans - Britannia. That term included the island which now makes up England, Wales and Scotland and smaller islands surrounding it. Ireland was not included in this entity, it was named Hibernia by the Romans and was never conquered by them.

The correct geographical term for the islands of Britain, Ireland, the Isles of Man & Wight and the Aran Islands is The British and Hibernian Isles. It was originally shortened to the British Isles by the British government to add a legitimacy to their rule of the entire region. Today it is called The British Isle's out of laziness and/or ignorance.

According to the British citizenship test Britain is the legal term for the island of Britain and Great Britain is the legal term for Britain, Northern Ireland and the Isles of Man and Wight.

As a Geography teacher I concur with your view young man :-) but . . . .
are you seriously suggesting that the British citizenship test defines the "Britain" as including Northern ireland?
because if thats the case then I am confused!!!
I could sware that Britain was Britain (The Island of) and if you include Northern Ireland - then you have "The UK" in other words, the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland!
Can you clarify please/ Yours - interested.

Victor

The Corinthian wrote:

Do we get to keep the eastern European chicks?

Only the hot ones and only if you share.

Maskhadov

ArthurF wrote:

Dear oh dear Maskhadov you really do need to have a lie-down and some asprin and (maybe a joint) to chill out ................

The term "British Isles" is the universally recognised term for "Those islands located off the N/W coast of mainland Europe" they include the island of Britain, the island of Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and all smaller surrounding islands!

The term "British Isles" does not imply that you or Bertie might be British (God forbid) but it is indeed the Correct Geographical term as used by the Met office - Weather forcasters, navigators and everybody else for that matter! May I suggest that you get over it.

With all due respect ArthurF I dont take drugs and I dont really need to chill out. Im just pointing out that an extra two words should be used when describing these islands.

Just because something is widely used doesnt mean its correct. Everyone was saying the british lions but they all say the british and irish lions now. A change from the top would change all this.


I wont get over it because I think its something that needs to be amended. Its absolutely nothing to do with nationalism, anti-britishness or anything else. Its just a simple concept. EQUALITY.

oscarBravo

iguana wrote:

The correct geographical term for the islands of Britain, Ireland, the Isles of Man & Wight and the Aran Islands is The British and Hibernian Isles.

Got a geographically authoritative source for that? If it were truly the case, I would have expected a google search for "Hibernian-Isles" to quickly confirm it.

iguana wrote:

It was originally shortened to the British Isles by the British government to add a legitimacy to their rule of the entire region.

Got a historically authoritative source for that?

Victor

iguana wrote:

Aran Islands

Eh, aren't you forgetting an awful lot of larger islands, Anglesea, Hebridies, Shetlands, Orkneys ....

CerebralCortex

meh. Who cares?

therecklessone

Maskhadov wrote:

Its nothing to do with nationalism.. its equality. Im not sure on the exact origin of british but its connected to England, Scotland and Wales. Maybe it was all the island but the phrase is used to define a nation state. So what Im saying is that they should add in another word to reflect the fact that there are two nation states there.

If you bothered to read the link that Mike posted you'd know that's not the case.

In terms of geography the term British Isles is understood to refer to the whole archipelago, from Scilly to Shetland, containing more than 6,000 islands and totalling 315,134 km² (121,674 square miles) of land. These islands were originally inhabited by the ancient Britons (hence the name "British Isles").

The historic name British Isles derives from terms used by classical geographers to describe the island group. Pliny the Elder, in his Natural History (iv.xvi.102) records of Great Britain that "it was itself named Albion while all the islands about which we shall soon briefly speak were called the Britanniae".

There's loads more for you to peruse, I can't be bothered quoting it all. If you're going to organise a petition, can you arrange another one to rename the Irish Sea? Cos thats a blatantly political name for a body of water...