This Government is a disgrace !

The Corinthian

Stark wrote:

Ireland has a minimum working wage. Pretty much every unskilled job in Ireland is minimum wage. For higher paying jobs, competition for those jobs is usually based on skill and merit, not on who can undercut whom.

Not entirely true. Labour supply / demand come into play even then to decreasing levels the more skilled (and hence rarified) the role. Indeed, sometimes the most qualified person will not get the job because the company in question may prefer to take on a less qualified but considerably less expensive alternative.

Gurgle

netwhizkid wrote:

They will work for peanuts

minimum wage

netwhizkid wrote:

while Irish people would only laugh at such wages.

Yes, many prefer to sit at home claiming the dole instead of working at all.

netwhizkid wrote:

we may have no option only to Emigrate to find high-paying easy jobs.

Theres just no answer to that comment!

netwhizkid wrote:

By referring to Slavonic i meant as in the general Eastern European types because for i say Polish (they are the biggest minority of the eastern Europeans here)

I don't care who you mean tbh.

netwhizkid wrote:

Basically if they will work some similar wages to ourselves and become unionised and throw off the shackles of letting themselves be exploited then grand, but having them undercutting our jobs is good for no-one.

Exploitation of foreigners in Ireland is very much the exception, not the rule. The vast majority work hard and get paid well. Where I work has about 30% foreigners, african, east european and asian, and yes they're in the union and paid on the same scale as everyone else.

The reason they're coming here at all is that there's more jobs to fill than people to fill them. Yes, there are unemployed Irish people here - they're the ones who refuse to do the jobs available or who are just un-employable.

wiseones2cents

It is not only happening In Ireland. It is Happening in all the Capitalist nations.
They outsource jobs. Which equates to bigger profit margins for the importers and less jobs for the country. Just watch poverty start to grow in your country rapidly as it has In America.

America is the leader in all this and America will be the first to fall. I'd give a few more years and you will see the American Economy Collapse. And all economies that are tied to it come crumbling down also.

Privatization is really bad because it slowly weakens the Government and puts the power in the hands of Big corporations that are not elected by the people and have no concern for the public.

I watched my country go Privatized and watched it slowly sinking into the ground. Now big business controls governemnt. Not the other way around.

When you start to feel the effects of these things and your economy heads south?Be sure your country will become unstable.

netwhizkid

wiseones2cents wrote:

It is not only happening In Ireland. It is Happening in all the Capitalist nations.
They outsource jobs. Which equates to bigger profit margins for the importers and less jobs for the country. Just watch poverty start to grow in your country rapidly as it has In America.

America is the leader in all this and America will be the first to fall. I'd give a few more years and you will see the American Economy Collapse. And all economies that are tied to it come crumbling down also.

Privatization is really bad because it slowly weakens the Government and puts the power in the hands of Big corporations that are not elected by the people and have no concern for the public.

I watched my country go Privatized and watched it slowly sinking into the ground. Now big business controls governemnt. Not the other way around.

When you start to feel the effects of these things and your economy heads south?Be sure your country will become unstable.

What country are you from wiseones2cents, because the way you are speaking i am guessing either the US, UK or Japan. Correct me if i'm wrong. Communism was an unfair system but some government control is needed over all private enterprise.

wiseones2cents

netwhizkid wrote:

What country are you from wiseones2cents, because the way you are speaking i am guessing either the US, UK or Japan. Correct me if i'm wrong. Communism was an unfair system but some government control is needed over all private enterprise.

I am from Canada. And as soon as Free trade was introduced. The Americans have come in and are taking over. The cost of Living is sky rocketing at an alarming rate. These US corporations with big money come and bribe our leaders and sell off our country piece by piece. After all, the politicians are only in power temporarily.They make their money and leave.

Communism is forced socialism.When Socialism was dreamed up. It was to be the best System. They thought that the Capitalist would eventually go out of business. Little did they know the Capitalists were willing to kill to hold on to their power. That is when Marx I believe took socialism a step further and began to force it in retaliation to the Capitalists. this was the beginning of Communism.

But Socialism in its origional form is the best for the country. It does not allow greed to flourish as it does in Capitalist societies.

Every time I see a Netwhizkid post, I think of the great things Kerry has done. From voting against the Treaty right up to McEllistrim and Ferris dumping Dick Sping on his ass in the 2002 GE. What a county NWK. Look around you and be proud of all we've done. Never mind that Irish Ferries dispute thing, sure that's for the East Coast to worry about. Take a trip out on the Dick Spring train, go past the Dick Spring windmill, and see where the Jeannie Johnston was put together for a reminder of how bad things really were with Irish shipping...

stevenmu

netwhizkid wrote:

Would you feel this way if your own employer (presuming you have one) decided to give you your marching orders only to be replaced by €3.60 an hour bonded labour. If Irish Ferries are not prepared to act in a decent way like the people of the country they are serving they should get out as they have no right here then.

If it happened to me I wouldn't feel happy at all, altough the redundancy package would cheer me up somewhat, as would the fact that thanks to the FF/PD coalition there's a job for everyone who wants one.

netwhizkid wrote:

Nobody is blockading an Irish port although imo they should be, Pirates rob ship as was recently demonstrated off the shores of Somalia.

Protesters have (or had earlier it may have been resolved by now) control of the engine rooms of two Irish Ferries ships docked in Wales, the engine room controls the ship, taking control of someone elses ship is piracy plain and simple.

netwhizkid wrote:

Nobodies movement is being curtailed, it is not as if the Unions will be isolating Ireland, Have you heard of the Aeroplane? It was invented 102 years ago by the Wright bros.

From todays Indo

Passengers on the MV Normandy, travelling from Cherbourg in France, had their travel plans severely disrupted when the ship was locked out of Rosslare Port after Siptu workers refused to let it berth

But late last night the vessel docked in Dublin Port.

SIPTU allowed the docking as there were a number of children among the passengers.

netwhizkid wrote:

Ownership of property rights?

Yes, the Irish Ferries ships belong to Irish Ferries, if they want former employees to leave the ship, or new employees to board it then surely they have the right to do so without having to deploy security teams to make it happen.

netwhizkid wrote:

The fact is good paying jobs would be cut for what? Capitalist Greed,

The fact is that those jobs only existed becuase of capitalist greed in the first place, and thanks to capitalist greed there's plenty of other jobs for them to go to.

wiseones2cents

The fact is that those jobs only existed becuase of capitalist greed in the first place, and thanks to capitalist greed there's plenty of other jobs for them to go to.

I dont know whats going on over there but over here capitalism has caused more jobs but less pay, tripled the cost of living and caused an unstable economy. If and When trade slows down,millions of people will lose jobs.

lazydaisy

Netwhizkid, you're spirit is admirable but sometimes you make no sense. But you are right. Ireland will see a new emigration. The young professionals will all leave to go to big bad Britain or big bad America.

If you're anti-capitalist why would you want to leave for a high paying job? Doesnt that violate your ideologies. Dont you want a low paying job where you have to give 50%-80% of your wages to the governement, a government you probably didnt vote for, so they can redistribute it on housing and benefits for the same immigrants you want kicked out of the country and cant get employment because they are in socialist state where the class system is fixed? Wouldn't that be just how you like it?

Or wouldnt it be better for you if you stayed in Ireland, where its this weird mixture of capitalism, socialism, feudalism and theocracy? {Oh, yes as long as they kicked out all the foreigners!}

fly_agaric

dRNk SAnTA wrote:

My 2 cents:
according to irish ferries, their competitors have driven down their labour costs by hiring these foreign workers. If this situation continues then inevitably if changes aren't made the company will be in trouble, the irish workers will end up losing their jobs anyway and probably end up with a **** redundancy package.

There was an article in the Irish Times a few days ago which said their main competition (Stena) has mostly Irish/Brits manning its boats. It also said that the profits they make on these routes are poor.
Somebody is spraying bullshít about this. Imo, "Irish":rolleyes: Ferries are looking for inspiration from their real competition in the sky. Slash costs to the bone.

netwhizkid

lazydaisy wrote:

Netwhizkid, you're spirit is admirable but sometimes you make no sense. But you are right. Ireland will see a new emigration. The young professionals will all leave to go to big bad Britain or big bad America.

If you're anti-capitalist why would you want to leave for a high paying job? Doesnt that violate your ideologies. Dont you want a low paying job where you have to give 50%-80% of your wages to the governement, a government you probably didnt vote for, so they can redistribute it on housing and benefits for the same immigrants you want kicked out of the country and cant get employment because they are in socialist state where the class system is fixed? Wouldn't that be just how you like it?

Or wouldnt it be better for you if you stayed in Ireland, where its this weird mixture of capitalism, socialism, feudalism and theocracy? {Oh, yes as long as they kicked out all the foreigners!}

I am an Anti-capitalist and only today got literature about joining the Irish Socialist party, I won't be drawn into the dog eat dog world of capitalism, I shall draw full dole and inherit the farm and suck down about €100,000 a year subsidies and to hell with Capitalism, Forestry and Full decoupling plus welfare equals the easy life for me I won't have to do much work allowing me to concentrate on my goal of delivering a united democratic Socialist Ireland run by the people for the people. If i were in politics i would stop foreign companies from taking massive profits from the country and Nationalise all major Industries and Financial services and actually deliver a decent standard of living for people. Most people don't know that the majority of the worlds wealth is in the hand of a few and most of these are based in the USA. A socialist world will become a reality because Capitalism will cripple itself by sacking all the workers, No workers = no consumers = no business = no money for greedy capitalists :eek: Capitalism will ruin itself anyway, More wars over finite resources will be fought and billions will die but capitalism itself will die choking on the mess it has created in the first place.

therecklessone

netwhizkid wrote:

I am an Anti-capitalist and only today got literature about joining the Irish Socialist party, I won't be drawn into the dog eat dog world of capitalism, I shall draw full dole and inherit the farm and suck down about €100,000 a year subsidies and to hell with Capitalism, Forestry and Full decoupling plus welfare equals the easy life for me

So you'll leech off other workers to have the easy life? Workers of the world unite...:rolleyes:

netwhizkid

I leech off the corrupt capitalist system, I will take delight at knowing that some of that money will come from multi-nationals profits. BTw this is my plan at the moment i am currently looking for a job and i hope to implement this plan in my later years. say 50+ I'm 18now btw i hope i will lived through the downfall of capitalism by then.

ronbyrne2005

workers wont flood to ireland to work for peanuts, the cost of living/housing prevents them staying here unless they get a fair wage,there are some being exploited but few if any working for less than min wage as it would be unsustainable to do so in a high cost economy.

wiseones2cents

netwhizkid wrote:

I leech off the corrupt capitalist system, I will take delight at knowing that some of that money will come from multi-nationals profits. BTw this is my plan at the moment i am currently looking for a job and i hope to implement this plan in my later years. say 50+ I'm 18now btw i hope i will lived through the downfall of capitalism by then.

WOW. I must say. I am Quite Impressed with your knowledge of economics
netwhizkid. And only 18? Someone has been teaching you well.

You will most certainly live through the downfall of Capitalism. It is just around the corner. Like I said before, Capitalist are willing to kill to hold on to their wealth. Thats what this war is about. But America and friends have made one to many enemies and have stretched their resources to the brink.
Their going down.

ronbyrne2005

i agree the economy is overly dependent on construction,damian kibaerd has talked about this in sunday times, a quite high % of gdp jobs etc.government gets 100k intaxes for every new house.
but if the economy hit a bad patch the migrants would move on to other parts of europe where the economy was doing well,they are footloose and have no attachment to ireland other than economic ones.

wiseones2cents

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

workers wont flood to ireland to work for peanuts, the cost of living/housing prevents them staying here unless they get a fair wage,there are some being exploited but few if any working for less than min wage as it would be unsustainable to do so in a high cost economy.

Wait until the competition sets in because of the outsourcing. Be preparred to wait in the unemployment lines.

ronbyrne2005

your talking cr4p unwise2cents

netwhizkid

wiseones2cents wrote:

Wait until the competition sets in because of the outsourcing. Be preparred to wait in the unemployment lines.

I'm afraid the people may be living in those lines wiseones2cents, In case you didn't know already with you being from Canada, Most people here have humongus mortgages, at least €250K + and how will they make repayments on €3.50 an hour, I can see houses being sold in droves by the banks in time to come as the repo-depot guys make their money.

ronbyrne2005

netwhizkid wrote:

I'm afraid the people may be living in those lines wiseones2cents, In case you didn't know already with you being from Canada, Most people here have humongus mortgages, at least €250K + and how will they make repayments on €3.50 an hour, I can see houses being sold in droves by the banks in time to come as the repo-depot guys make their money.

3.50 per hour? min wage legislation stops this.
if the wages got so low the immigrants wouldnt come here!and thise here would leave, irish employers would employ irish people rather than migrants if there was a slowdown in economy

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

I leech off the corrupt capitalist system, I will take delight at knowing that some of that money will come from multi-nationals profits. BTw this is my plan at the moment i am currently looking for a job and i hope to implement this plan in my later years. say 50+ I'm 18now btw i hope i will lived through the downfall of capitalism by then.

heh

For an anti capitalist, you sure are fond of its products... :rolleyes:

I'll give you a piece of advice netwhizkid.
Stop trolling, its a bannable offence around here.
Put some serious thought into your posts rather than using this place as a soapbox or go elsewhere.

netwhizkid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

3.50 per hour? min wage legislation stops this.
if the wages got so low the immigrants wouldnt come here!and thise here would leave, irish employers would employ irish people rather than migrants if there was a slowdown in economy

Irish employers might but most employers are greed driven and once the have their own pockets well and truly lined to hell with everyone else. Well if Irish ferries can get away with it, then it won't be long before it is being flaunted by other employers. Anyway harney introduced it it is not as if she actually cares about anyone. Her main concerns are Money for greedy capitalists and food oh yeah plus getting clothes to fit her outsized body

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

your talking cr4p unwise2cents

The fella is talking with great intelligence and forseen the future well like myself.

If you can't attack the logic then don't attack the poster.

therecklessone

Earthman wrote:

heh

For an anti capitalist, you sure are fond of its products... :rolleyes:

Damn you Earthman, I was about to post that...:D

Between him and his fellow travellers, I think I've put more on my ignore list today than in my entire time on boards.

netwhizkid

Earthman wrote:

heh

For an anti capitalist, you sure are fond of its products... :rolleyes:

I'll give you a piece of advice netwhizkid.
Stop trolling, its a bannable offence around here.
Put some serious thought into your posts rather than using this place as a soapbox or go elsewhere.

Earthman i am only putting forward the case of how by allowing Irish ferries to do what they are trying will be very bad for the irish economy. And this government are only pawns in this. I do like consumer products heck i'm only human, I have no problem with them, the problem is with the salve labour used to rpoduce them rather unfairly. Anyway i'm logging off now, and i don't think you or me or anyone else can solve the worlds problems, we can try but thats about it

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote:

...Irish Socialist...inherit...suck down about €100,000 a year...the easy life for me

I won't have to do much work allowing me to concentrate on my goal of delivering a united democratic Socialist Ireland run by the people for the people.

Easy life.

Big money.

Claims to be socialist.

Based in Kerry.

Wrings hands about workers rights.

Do you have a moustache and did you play rugby for Ireland by any chance?

therecklessone

netwhizkid wrote:

I am an Anti-capitalist and only today got literature about joining the Irish Socialist party

Quickly took you off ignore to pass on some friendly advice.

I'd keep the anti-immigrant spiel to myself if you're serious about joining the Socialist Party.

Closing this thread of farce now