Problems with tail gators?

ballooba

TBH Big_Nelly i could not give a toss whether or not you can turn your Massey Ferguson on a 5 Cent piece or if you won the ploughing championships ten years straight. Your skill in manouvering a Tractor has nothing whatsoever to do with whther or not you are a safe driver.

I'm not quite sure what you are going on about but I'm pretty sure that the manouveur you are referring to is where a slow moving tractor indicates to the left to indicate that they are partially pulling off the road (to the left) to allow you room to pass. Not that the road ahead of them is clear and that you should burst on blindly.

[edit] I have been driving 3 months and I already knew that it was common courtesy to flash your lights at artic drivers when they were a safe distance ahead of you to allow them pull back in to the left post overtaking.[/edit]

_Kaiser_

With regards to this whole flashing lights at each other..

As I understand it this is only done to indicate a problem, or as a courtesy to other drivers to allow them to pull out/turn in front of you (and even then your not really supposed to do it from comments here previously).

The thing about truckers doing it to indicate to each other that it's safe to pull back in when overtaking makes sense, but is certainly not a general practise.

annR

Anyone who tailgates either hasn't a clue how to drive or else doesn't give a ****. What good can it possibly do, even if the person in front is too slow or a learner. They could stop unexpectedly or something, one of the rules of proper driving is to make allowances for other drivers' mistakes. Surely anyone who doesn't do this and hasn't enough self control to stay back a bit is a danger on the roads.

I drive at the speed limit most of the time and I still get loads of tailgators and I hate it. And why should I interrupt my journey to pull in to the hard shoulder so they can pass, maybe I'm in a hurry too? Besides it's dangerous to be flaking along the hard shoulder on a country road, is that what they want me to do? I might have a crash with Big Nelly pulling out of a side road with his tractor or mow down somebody walking. White vans seem to be the worst and they're usually talking on the mobile too. They overtake when I'm slowing down because there's a red light up ahead or if there's pedestrians. They overtake me in housing estates where there are kids playing.

About the light flashing. I've seen that misinterpreted in a very dangerous way. I've been in front of a truck and come suddenly upon road work traffic lights and had to slow suddenly to a stop. The truck behind me used his *hazard ights* to signal to the car behind him he was slowing. That car took it as a signal to overtake him, which he did at high speed, nearly went into the back of me, ended up about 2 inches from my bumper with his arse out across the white. By that rule you're talking about Nelly he was probably watching for the indictor to overtake and didn't see that the truck was using the hazard lights. WAY TOO IMPATIENT AND NOT OBSERVANT.

_Kaiser_

annR wrote:

About the light flashing. I've seen that misinterpreted in a very dangerous way. I've been in front of a truck and come suddenly upon road work traffic lights and had to slow suddenly to a stop. The truck behind me used his *hazard ights* to signal to the car behind him he was slowing. That car took it as a signal to overtake him, which he did at high speed, nearly went into the back of me, ended up about 2 inches from my bumper with his arse out across the white. By that rule you're talking about Nelly he was probably watching for the indictor to overtake and didn't see that the truck was using the hazard lights. WAY TOO IMPATIENT AND NOT OBSERVANT.

I've seen this use of hazard lights on the N3 when decelerating rapidly - especially recently with all the roadworks and bad weather. Good practise IMO

annR

Yeah it's a great idea, but totally backfires if the impatient git in the car behind thinks "great he's slowing down/signalling me so I can overtake now".

shabbyroad

Big Nelly wrote:

What are you waffling about never 1 accident?????? you havent a clue what you are talking about!!! Advanced driving training?????? when???? where????? my father and uncle had UK licenses they never done advanced training!! you just making stuff up?????

What the f**k allows you to insult me??? you havent a clue who I am or what sort of driver I am!!!!

Never have had an accident while driving a car here, in the UK, Europe or in the USA.. I don't know any other way to explain it to you. Sorry it's so complicated. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed English was your first language. My mistake.

Advanced training in the USA on two occassions in the 1990s. You don't have to believe it because I don't care, you're not important to me. By the way, the USA : it's a large continent to the west of Ireland. Check it out sometime.

If you think you're being insulted that's your problem. I think I have a very good clue indeed as to your driving inability.

Big Nelly

shabbyroad wrote:

Never have had an accident while driving a car here, in the UK, Europe or in the USA.. I don't know any other way to explain it to you. Sorry it's so complicated. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed English was your first language. My mistake.

Advanced training in the USA on two occassions in the 1990s. You don't have to believe it because I don't care, you're not important to me. By the way, the USA : it's a large continent to the west of Ireland. Check it out sometime.

I think Lemming got me mixed up with you. What you think everyone is going to come on here and go "Oh your great! oh your the King of driving!! please teach us all inferior people how to drive, you are so brillant because you done two advanced learning course". Don't think, I couldn't give a rats ass what you did in the US. I don't see what that has got to do with anything. US license is worthless over here. Rules of the road are different so that advanced course is useless more or less.

Oh please wait till I cry because I am not important to you. Again what has this got to do with anything? oh yeah I do know where US is, have been there, next time Im over ther must go and do an advanced leaner driver course and see if my head swells up

Yes english is but maybe re-read because it didnt make any sense

shabbyroad wrote:

If you think you're being insulted that's your problem. I think I have a very good clue indeed as to your driving inability.

No its your problem. Personal insults are not allowed and how would you have a clue how I drive or anyone else on here drives? maybe you are God like you think and can see what everyone does from there nickname on here!

ressem

slow drivers and not passing is the reason for crashs....

Plenty of people treat 65mph as slow on the N6, and tailgating for minutes on end still goes on, including at points with no hard shoulder, corners and a steady stream of oncoming traffic.


Now combine this with, E.g watch out for the gob&(&^* driving a livestock trailer in the evenings from Ballinasloe to Athlone with unconnected lights these days. Even without the fog as we've had recently, he's invisible from 50 yards.

e.g. someone driving on N3...lorry doing about 30-50 because of heavy load....you sit behind him wiating for a a "clear" road as you say

If you're tailgating a HGV even at 30mph, you'll have restricted view. You're also less likely to spot an opening. Then people behind with a better view will assume you've no intention of passing and overtake you both.

Have colleagues sitting an advanced driving test soon. Emphasises safety, constant planning, confident driving style. Hibernian offer a 30% discount on insurance.

samo

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I've seen this use of hazard lights on the N3 when decelerating rapidly - especially recently with all the roadworks and bad weather. Good practise IMO

Have seen this as well as practised by HGV drivers that they are slowing or coming to a stop fairly sharpish...and always took it that if someone puts their hazards on that its to indicate caution ...not a sign that I can safely overtake!!!

I recently had a pretty nasty experience recently wherby driving in a line of approx 10-12 cars which were held up the 1st car ( reason being a learner driver doing approx 45 kph in a 60kph zone) had some gob****e in an 05 Golf suddenly slot himself in the space behind me having overtaken approx 3 cars ...only he lost control of the car and skidded straight into the back of me ramming me off the road.

All the kind souls :rolleyes: behind me so kindly drove on as did he leaving me on the side of the road with only half his reg number observed and a nice big dint on the back of my car. Thankfully 2 things prevented the situation being much worse, firstly that I had left a good distance in front of me even in slow moving traffic so that I wasnt forced into the car in front and secondly he initiallly hit my towbar and probably caused alot more damage to his own car than mine but then hit the side of my bumper as he swerved to keep on overtaking :eek:

So have a fairly poor opinion of the type of driver that tailgates and it seems its an issue thats on the increase rather than the decline :mad:

fletch

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I've seen this use of hazard lights on the N3 when decelerating rapidly - especially recently with all the roadworks and bad weather. Good practise IMO

I've gotten into a habit of doing this....whenever I break very sharply or come to a stop on a main road that was travelling at speed....I brake and hit the hazards (after doing the Ignition course and watchin a vid of some guy being rear ended by a 40footer, I'm verry conscious of it)

_Kaiser_

samo wrote:

Have seen this as well as practised by HGV drivers that they are slowing or coming to a stop fairly sharpish...and always took it that if someone puts their hazards on that its to indicate caution ...not a sign that I can safely overtake!!!

Exactly... hence the term "hazard lights" as I'd see it I've started doing it too. Came across a guy standing in the middle of the road with a stop sign just after a bend on the N3 outside Kells the other day and was forced to hit the brakes fairly hard (was only doin around 75/80kph). Dunno what he was thinking but there was no advance warning of these roadworks either which doesn't help matters of course!

BrianD3

In fairness to Big Nelly there is some truth to the "unwritten etiquette" that he describes. Take indicating left when someone's behind this is most definitely *not* a signal to overtake on a blind hill or bend. Only a suicidal idiot would take it as this. What the signal does mean is that the driver ahead is aware of your presence and will facilitate you passing them. I see this used by truckers if they have just come around a slow corner onto a short straight. The left signal means that they're backing off the gas rather than accelerating out of the bend therefore making it possible for the car behind to overtake safely. Something which they mightn't be able to do if the truck was accelerating out of the bend. It is still 100% the responsibility of the driver behind to judge whether it is a safe overtake or not.

Likewise trucks stopping at roadworks putting out the right indicator is a signal to cars behind not to overtake. Truckers realise that they might be blocking drivers view. Driver might not be able to see the roadworks ahead and might think the truck has just parked up/broken down etc. and try to pass it.

Also the flashing headlights to tell an overtaking trucker that the rear of their 40 foot trailer is clear of the front of your vehicle is standard practice among truckers and is a help to safety even though it's not written down in the ROTR.

Big Nelly

BrianD3 wrote:

I see this used by truckers if they have just come around a slow corner onto a short straight. The left signal means that they're backing off the gas rather than accelerating out of the bend therefore making it possible for the car behind to overtake safely. Something which they mightn't be able to do if the truck was accelerating out of the bend.

This is what I was talking about. Maybe didnt explain the best but I thought this would be common knowledge for most people. I was wrong. This is used by truckers all the time and they have never put me wrong so I will continue to take them at there word. Also as mentioned above it is actually easier to stay further back from a truck. You have a better view of what is coming in front and also the lorry driver can see you behind him

Also in regards to the flashing of both indicators when slowing down, I also thought this would be common knowledge. First seen people starting to use this after the dual carraigeway came into Ireland. Did not see before this but was too young to notice. People always done this when coming onto a crash to warn everyone to slow down and so on.

ballooba

Leaving a bigger gap for a truck, bus, SUV etc is common sense. It is very hard to see past these things so it is good practice to leave a bigger gap when following them or stopped behind them at traffic lights.

At traffic lights it means that if there is a problem, such as the vehicle in front breaking down or having to back up that there is plenty of room to manouveur.

Big Nelly

ballooba wrote:

Leaving a bigger gap for a truck, bus, SUV etc is common sense. It is very hard to see past these things so it is good practice to leave a bigger gap when following them or stopped behind them at traffic lights.

At traffic lights it means that if there is a problem, such as the vehicle in front breaking down or having to back up that there is plenty of room to manouveur.

Yes common sense but how many people do you see sitting right behind a lorry weaving in and out trying to look past it to see if they can pass.

ballooba

Not me anyway. I prefer to keep my teeth firmly out of the steering wheel.

P.s. What's the last thing to go though a fly's head when it sees an oncoming truck?

It's arse.

maidhc

Lorry drivers (and tractor drivers) often indicate left to let you know the road ahead is clear enough to nudge out your car and overtake. I do it when I am driving same. It is mostly only done on narrowish roads where the overtaking space is tight,

Also, when you are beind a truck/tractor. Dont drive up close, all that happens is you cant be seen in the mirrors, and it is more difficult to pull out. Also, if you crash you are only going to damage your own vehicle.

Borzoi

Big Nelly wrote:

Personal insults are not allowed !

Absolutely not, so play nice there boys and girls.

It's ironic that some people don't know that flashing indicators are 'Hazard Lights', and are supposed to indicate that i.e. rapid decelaration due to road works, stop go lights, etc They are particularly useful in bad lighting conditions, when it's hard to judge the speed of the traffic in front. I had mine on last night as I changed a tire at the side of the road, plenty of visibilty of a hazard - me the, pedestrian working. With the car on a jack, I really didn;t want to be hit!

It really wrecks my head when people use them as park anywhere lights.

GreeBo

Borzoi wrote:

It really wrecks my head when people use them as park anywhere lights.

Or when Taxi's use them to stop anywhere at anytime.
-"it's ok!, its ok!, Im using my hazards":cool:

NutJob

The only sensable advice for dealing with tail gaters is make sure u slow down gradually or speed up a bit where aplicable and iv done an advanced driving cources they are crap.

Common sence, experience and calm head will keep u alive longer than a day cource in modello or the Hibernian advanced driving course.

Idleater

Folks, seeing as it is 17:20 or thereabouts and almost hometime, I have decided that I am going to try my commute without tailgaiting the driver infront of me. I will be using the flash the headlights technique from further back than I normally do.

In return, please refrain from hogging the "fast" lane, Im on a bike and will be out of your way in no time.

Many Thanks,
L.

mike65

Phew! Have we all calmed down now?

All this fuss over not conveying information clearly and while others can't understand it!

Big Nelly I have to say you really should cool your engines before replying with such an explosion of !!!!!!!!!!!! etc. You even managed to say

I said I had drove for over 10 years without driving

which is a good trick!

If others can't quite 'get' the point being made then we end up with nasty spats that could and should be avoided.

As for all the light tricks, as a 70,000 km a year guy I don't even think about them any more so I guess I forget some folks just have'nt a clue what they mean or that they might indicate something quite different to what they belive.

Proberly just illustates how the government continues to fail the public with its lack of an educational ethos.

Mike.

Supercell

I'd just like to add to this topic here from the point of view of a L driver.

Just what the hell are the tail gaters thinking ??!!

I PANIC when i see a tail gater..it scares the bejesus out of me, starting and stopping, changing gears takes my full attention..just WTF do you think might happen when my attention is focused on the cúnt 5 inches away from my rear bumper?
I am not able yet to guide the car out of a sudden situation..YOU will be worse off than me as i'll jam on the brakes at the first sign of risk of life or limb to me or anyone else on the road bar you which has caused me to to get so scared.

Tailgating experienced drivers ..bad enough..but learner drivers..totally totally stupid and you are risking the life of everyone on the road around you as learner drivers are LEARNING...

If any bloody tail gater reads this..please beware the L means if things go wrong..you probably will get hurt as i'll probably panic if I've got to slow down suddenly and you'r 5 inches away from my back bumper.

GreeBo

Longfield wrote:

I'd just like to add to this topic here from the point of view of a L driver.

You see this is an example of a good, well thought out, logical post.
The problem is that those who tailgate obviously dont have the brains to understand it and will just zoom past it like its some poor learner doing the speed limit on *their* road.

I'd love to say "let Darwin take care of them" but the problem is they take you and I out with them.

Is tailgating mentionned as part of Dangerous Driving?
Do you get points if caught doing it?

Lemming

Longfield, I have discovered one *wonderful* trick for dealing with tailgaters whilst learning. I'd like to claim I came upw ith it, but in fact discovered it quite by accident, and it will only apply on hill-starts.

I was in a school-of-motoring-type car, signs, etc and on the Grange road in Dublin (for those who don't know it, nice wide road at one end, ending up as a small winding "country" road as it intersects with one end of Marley Park).

Had this jeep (surprise surprise) very aggressively on my ass, on the "country" end of the road, and considering that a) I'm obviously a "new" learner - ie. on my first few lessons - and b) I was doing the speed limit this was rather annoying. Get to the the intersection with Marley park (and tailors lane), and the lights turned red. So I'm first to go, on a hill. With jeep-boy sitting behind me impatiently. My very first hill-start was literally "on the job" training. Needles to say I messed it up, didn't get the holding point and the car started to roll backwards. Not much, but a little. Enough to scare the living f*ck out of the wanker behind me. He stayed about 30 ft behind me all the way up past Marley :v:

Capt'n Midnight

GreeBo wrote:

Or when Taxi's use them to stop anywhere at anytime.
-"it's ok!, its ok!, Im using my hazards":cool:

This really bugs me. They have big TAXI signs on the roof, which is the international symbol to warn other drivers that they are likely to stop / U-Turn / reverse at random. Any taxi driver who uses hazards instead of indicating/using hand signals should have their license revoked.

Tail gators, just change down the gears when you come to the bend. And then bip the brakes just enough that they see your brake lights do work
Same thing when someone is driving behind you with full beams on, slow down till they get the message. If you have to split more of your attention to behind then you won't be able to travel safely as fast as you would otherwise.

GreeBo

Lemming wrote:

So I'm first to go, on a hill. With jeep-boy sitting behind me impatiently. My very first hill-start was literally "on the job" training. Needles to say I messe

why do people do this?
I mean you are in a car with a learner sticker, if they have been behind you for any length of time at all its probably obvious that you are a learner and yet they sit on your bumper when you are stopped on a hill.
Are they stupid or inconsiderate or ignorant or what?

Belle_Morte

Tailgating is stupid and dangerous. I was involved in an accident 2 weeks ago where two cars piled into the back of me. We were driving on bendy country lanes with two very hesitant drivers in front of us, when the first car came to a dead halt for no apparent reason I was able to stop in time. The two cars behind me piled into me and each other causing over 3000 euro of damage and giving me whiplash. Now I have to contend with their insurance companies bickering over who hit hardest and who should have to pay for the damage. If they had just had the sense to BACK THE F*CK OFF this could all have been avoided.

Rudolph Claus

I was involved in an accident 2 weeks ago where two cars piled into the back of me. We were driving on bendy country lanes with two very hesitant drivers in front of us, when the first car came to a dead halt for no apparent reason I was able to stop in time. The two cars behind me piled into me and each other causing over 3000 euro of damage and giving me whiplash. Now I have to contend with their insurance companies bickering over who hit hardest and who should have to pay for the damage. If they had just had the sense to BACK THE F*CK OFF this could all have been avoided.

two very hesitant drivers in front of us, when the first car came to a dead halt for no apparent reason

They`re the cause of this accident, not the 2 cars that crashed into you. well, obviously they are partially, but the 2 hesitant dopes are the real cause. Probably 2 women aswell, holding on to their steering wheel extremely tight in case it falls off.

I find that dublin drivers are the worst at holding up traffic on roads outside dublin. Its like they`re so used to driving at 30mph round their ****ty cities and towns that when they go out onto the regional roads they havent a clue how to drive the car on a bit. They just sit at 40/50mph. And they cant take corners/bends above 50mph.

Belle_Morte

The speed limit on that road is 50mph, its not a great road and has some fairly nasty bends so there are very few opportunities to overtake safely. At various times travelling along it I've had to stop or slow down for herds of cows, farm vehicles, school buses, escaped horses etc. etc. These roads are not particularly safe, and unless you have the god given talent to see around corners sitting up someone's arse is not a good idea as you never know what hazards may be in the road ahead of you or whether you're sat behind a complete tool who may just do something completely random. As a driver you're supposed to have the skill and awareness to give yourself sufficient time to stop safely should the need arise.

I have no idea why the first car stopped when it did but that in no way vindicates the people behind me for driving dangerously.

ETA one of the cars to hit me was driven by a woman, the car that stopped was being driven by an elderly man.