Northern Bank Raid - an inside job?

maccor

RTE reported yesterday ( http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1129/bank.html ) that two more people have been arrested for questioning in reference to the northern bank raid, though no charges have yet been made.

Doesnt this make the whole thing look like an inside job and not the IRA as everyone believed - considering one of those arrested was in fact one of those originally 'kidnapped'?

seamus

maccor wrote:

Doesnt this make the whole thing look like an inside job and not the IRA as everyone believed - considering one of those arrested was in fact one of those originally 'kidnapped'?

It's certainly likely, though it doesn't rule out the possibility that any insiders were also part of the IRA (or whatever gang). At the very least, the sheer scale of the robbery points to the involvement of a major organised crime syndicate, and there are only a couple of those in NI.

gandalf

I would say its an inside job and the IRA were involved. Would explain the cash found down in Cork. Or maybe it fell off the back of a white van eh

maccor

where is the proof though of the ira involvemnet - besides political assumptions for political reaons by various political parties. Again though, im not saying they werent involved - dont want one of those neverending arguments starting !

i think statement like "Would explain the cash found down in Cork. Or maybe it fell off the back of a white van eh " dont really explain much as how would the IRA being invloved explain cash found in cork. what about the cash found in the RUC leisure centre. surely that couldnt have been planted - but no questions are being asked.

Logically, it looks more like rogue elemnets in the security forces, who will probably face unemployment if the peace process works, plus bamk insiders who are responsible as the evidence points more that direction than at the IRA.

maccor

today is a bad spelling day

RedPlanet

gandalf wrote:

I would say its an inside job and the IRA were involved. Would explain the cash found down in Cork. Or maybe it fell off the back of a white van eh

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall any money found in raids in this country being positively linked to the Northern Bank robbery.
Meaning the notes recovered here have not been identified by their numbers as belonging to the stash stolen from the bank.

I could be wrong however as this story as been a little difficult to follow, with dwindling interest from the main steam media.

Maybe someone here has followed the story more closely?

gandalf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Bank_robbery

£60000 was directly linked to it by the Gardai which is pretty conclusive to me.

ronbyrne2005

60k of the cork money was from bank supposedly, the gardai arent revealing full details as a trial looms/investigations continue.
the dogs in the street and all that..

RedPlanet

Ok from that wiki article:

"On 17 February the Gardaí announced it had arrested seven people and recovered over £2 million, including £60,000 in Northern Bank notes, during raids in the Cork and Dublin areas, as part of ongoing investigations into money laundering. The Gardaí did not officially confirm that the raids were related to the Northern Bank robbery, but made the arrests under the Offences Against the State Act.."
and
"Police in Northern Ireland recovered £50,000 in unused Northern banknotes at Newforge Country Club, a sports and social club in Belfast for off-duty and retired police officers, owned by the PSNI's Athletic Association. The PSNI stated it was a diversion, but it is being investigated.

19 February
Police confirm the money found at the Newforge Country Club was part of the £26 million from the bank robbery"

So that doesn't actually state that the money recovered in raids in Cork an Dublin were from the robbery, just that some of the currency consisted of Northern notes.

Edit: wait here it is:

"On 12 October, Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy told a law enforcement conference in Dublin that he was satisfied that the money recovered in Cork in February came from the Northern Bank robbery "

gandalf

Read on a bit further then

October 2005
On 12 October, Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy told a law enforcement conference in Dublin that he was satisfied that the money recovered in Cork in February came from the Northern Bank robbery....

maccor

yeah but he doesnt say "and therefore that means the IRA done it"

maccor

maccor wrote:

yeah but he doesnt say "and therefore that means the IRA done it"

Has he ever said that he thinks the IRA were involved?

I think you'll find he has.

ghostdancer

the cork money has never been proven to be part of the robbery, serial numbers have never been matched with the robbery notes to the best of my knowledge. it is quite likely that they're from the heist however, but still no official confirmation that they were.

the notes found in the PSNI club were matched by serial to the bank robbery notes.

i'd say it's quite probable that PIRA were involved but there are most definitely other crime syndicates in the north that were capable of pulling it off.

i'd say it's quite possible that Chris Ward, or someone else in the bank had something to do with it.

when people are convicted of both the robbery and IRA membership, then i'll believe it was PIRA, until then, i'll choose to disregard the opinion of Hugh Orde based on intelligence supplied to him by members of RUC/PSNI, an organisation that leaked the details of 400 republicans to Loyalist paramilitaires last year, and colluded with UDA/UVF in the the murder of Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, and various other innocent people.

Xterminator

It wasnt Hugh Ordes opinion, that the cork money was from the north bank raid, it was Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy's opinion.

There is nothing strange about it, he cant release sensitive information or he might compromise a future trial.

However if the Garda Commisioner is satisfied, thats good enough for me
Or do you suspect he leaked documents to loyalist paramilitaries too?

X

Meh

ghostdancer wrote:

it is quite likely that they're from the heist however, but still no official confirmation that they were.

It doesn't get much more official than a statement from the Garda Commissioner himself. But I suppose some people will refuse to believe what they don't want to believe...

when people are convicted of both the robbery and IRA membership, then i'll believe it was PIRA, until then, i'll choose to disregard the opinion of Hugh Orde based on intelligence supplied to him by members of RUC/PSNI, an organisation that leaked the details of 400 republicans to Loyalist paramilitaires last year, and colluded with UDA/UVF in the the murder of Pat Finucane, Rosemary Nelson, and various other innocent people.

Interesting that you are applying different standards of proof here. You won't believe that the IRA robbed the Northern Bank until there is an arrest and conviction; meanwhile you blame the PSNI for Rosemary Nelson's murder without anyone from the PSNI having been convicted in that case!

biko

I'm not satisfied until I see some photographic evidence

Squaletto

It would appear that three people have been charged with crimes related to the Bank Heist of last December. Strange isn't it that the PSNI have still to charge any of those individuals with IRA membership? It would appear that their Head Officer was talking through his British Arse when he blamed the IRA last year! Can anyone in this forum please help clear up this 'putting the cart before the horse' attitude of the dodgy Orde Chief of the RUC/PSNI?

Thanking you all in advance,
Squaletto

Squaletto

Squaletto wrote:

It would appear that three people have been charged with crimes related to the Bank Heist of last December. Strange isn't it that the PSNI have still to charge any of those individuals with IRA membership?

how do you know that? and could someone enlighten me as to how often the authorities in NI have charged someone with IRA membership since the GFA? I'd imagine it's rare enough these days such is the sensitivities being adhered to,the ceasefire and the disarment.

It would appear that their Head Officer was talking through his British Arse when he blamed the IRA last year! Can anyone in this forum please help clear up this 'putting the cart before the horse' attitude of the dodgy Orde Chief of the RUC/PSNI?

Thanking you all in advance,
Squaletto

{Random person calling to the door of the DPP} Hey could I have the file on case 12345 please?

{DPP} No you are not entitled to such information.Our investigations are on going and we will present our evidence when we bring charges.

Hope that helps
Earthman

It doesn't get much more official than a statement from the Garda Commissioner himself. But I suppose some people will refuse to believe what they don't want to believe...

Thats about it.
I'd pay attention to the Gardaí and the Dáil in relation to this matter but some never will of course because , you see the law is oppression :rolleyes:

Squaletto

Earthman wrote:

how do you know that? and could someone enlighten me as to how often the authorities in NI have charged someone with IRA membership since the GFA? I'd imagine it's rare enough these days such is the sensitivities being adhered to,the ceasefire and the disarment.

{Random person calling to the door of the DPP} Hey could I have the file on case 12345 please?

{DPP} No you are not entitled to such information.Our investigations are on going and we will present our evidence when we bring charges.

Hope that helps
Earthman


Thats about it.
I'd pay attention to the Gardaí and the Dáil in relation to this matter but some never will of course because , you see the law is oppression :rolleyes:

Thanks Earthman for your useful information but alas it doesn't really clear things up for me. I'll tell you why. Last year we were all told that the IRA and the top leaders of the democratic political party of Sinn Fein were the culprits of the crime. As of yet, one whole year later we haven't seen much action in relation to tracking down the so called thieves who reside in Parnell square and in West Belfast. What we have seen though is an orchestrated media fed operation by the PSNI to discredit the names of high flying sinn fein members and their supporters in the north which if you don't mind me saying is really a stunt by the PSNI to hamper the inevitable face to face talks between the DUP and SF. Call me a blind fool or similar but really the whole process in the north is going beyond a joke especially when you find a party like the DUP refusing to sit with SF on the basis that they are felons and murders. Yet the same party has regular meeting with SF at council meetings and also have been known to sit down and talk to loyalist paramilitaries! Sorry, went off on a rant there!!The whole anti SF thing will eventually play itself out and in my opinion the real truth about the Heist will be made public. The sad thing is that it might take another thirty years or so: By then we will have seen Mr G Adams become President of a united Ireland while the PDs will be banished into the depths of forgotten history as a party which had more in common with the DUP than the DUP themselves!! Christ another rant. Well I think you are used to me by now!!! Thannks again for the info,
slan ,
Squaletto:D

Freelancer

Squaletto wrote:

Thanks Earthman for your useful information but alas it doesn't really clear things up for me. I'll tell you why. Last year we were all told that the IRA and the top leaders of the democratic political party of Sinn Fein were the culprits of the crime. As of yet, one whole year later we haven't seen much action in relation to tracking down the so called thieves who reside in Parnell square and in West Belfast. What we have seen though is an orchestrated media fed operation by the PSNI to discredit the names of high flying sinn fein members and their supporters in the north which if you don't mind me saying is really a stunt by the PSNI to hamper the inevitable face to face talks between the DUP and SF. Call me a blind fool or similar but really the whole process in the north is going beyond a joke especially when you find a party like the DUP refusing to sit with SF on the basis that they are felons and murders. Yet the same party has regular meeting with SF at council meetings and also have been known to sit down and talk to loyalist paramilitaries! Sorry, went off on a rant there!!The whole anti SF thing will eventually play itself out and in my opinion the real truth about the Heist will be made public. The sad thing is that it might take another thirty years or so: By then we will have seen Mr G Adams become President of a united Ireland while the PDs will be banished into the depths of forgotten history as a party which had more in common with the DUP than the DUP themselves!! Christ another rant. Well I think you are used to me by now!!! Thannks again for the info,
slan ,
Squaletto:D

So just a piece of rambling supposition without any evidence.......

A Dub in Glasgo

Freelancer wrote:

So just a piece of rambling supposition without any evidence.......

... just like a lot of things associated with the robbery at the Northern Bank

Squaletto

Squaletto wrote:

Thanks Earthman for your useful information but alas it doesn't really clear things up for me. I'll tell you why. Last year we were all told that the IRA and the top leaders of the democratic political party of Sinn Fein were the culprits of the crime. As of yet, one whole year later we haven't seen much action in relation to tracking down the so called thieves who reside in Parnell square and in West Belfast.

Let me endeavour to clear this up for you.I'd expect most people would disbelieve that the top echelons of SF because of the company they keep wouldn't be aware of what that company is up to.
Thats what made ahern mad when the Gardaí were advising him of IRA involvement in this.
If you can't fathom why he and others would be mad at what they would perceive as duplicity, then it's time to take the blinkers off to be honest.

What we have seen though is an orchestrated media fed operation by the PSNI to discredit the names of high flying sinn fein members and their supporters in the north which if you don't mind me saying is really a stunt by the PSNI to hamper the inevitable face to face talks between the DUP and SF.

I dont think the DUP ever needed any convincing do you?The rest of us can wait for a court case.

Call me a blind fool or similar but really the whole process in the north is going beyond a joke especially when you find a party like the DUP refusing to sit with SF on the basis that they are felons and murders. Yet the same party has regular meeting with SF at council meetings and also have been known to sit down and talk to loyalist paramilitaries! Sorry, went off on a rant there!!

So they draw a line in the sand? Thats all I see there It's no secret that they draw this line, they are pretty open about it.

The whole anti SF thing will eventually play itself out and in my opinion the real truth about the Heist will be made public.

You are being as guilty there as you accuse the authorities of one sideness.Why should one listen to you with no evidence and no legal right to be gathering evidence versus the authorities who have a legal right to be gathering evidence and by virtue of them recently arresting people, they are obvious in their gathering of evidence.
In other words, you are being a black kettle calling the pot black ársed.

The sad thing is that it might take another thirty years or so:

No the sad thing is that the IRA held up the prospect of a united Ireland by continuing to feed the spiral of tit for tat murders, bombings, maimings and shootings for thirty years.

By then we will have seen Mr G Adams become President of a united Ireland while the PDs will be banished into the depths of forgotten history as a party which had more in common with the DUP than the DUP themselves!! Christ another rant. Well I think you are used to me by now!!! Thannks again for the info,
slan ,
Squaletto:D

I think you are guilty there of a gross underestimation of the 26 county electorate.
These days they vote with their pocket.

Squaletto

I am getting a clearer picture of the whole situation now thanks to you but there still remain a few things I am unsure about. You said that the IRA were the reason for the lack of reunification of Ireland as they fought their war against the forces of the state. I half agree with you there but you left out why the nationalists took up arms in the first place. I don't want to go into the whole historical thing but the fact of the matter is that one side treated the other unfairly and unjust. Result was division of communities etc. The British machine in the north and south is fearsome and cannot be trusted, the PSNI is part of the problem. Many nationalists do not trust their so called police service and according to many nationalists that I spoke to in the north during the summer it was the PSNI or closely related groups which carried out the heist. Yes you are right I do not have proof it was them but neither do the PSNI have any credible proof it was the IRA. Once again we are in a no win situation. I have wondered though who would the heist benefit most and my answer points to those who want to wreck the GFA and go back to the futile killing days of old. We have seen the IRA state that for them the war is over but unfortunately the PSNI are still antagonising nationalist areas while turning a blind eye to loyalists turfing out families in areas of Belfast where murdering gangs continue to operate without as much as a whisper from the PSNI. How can that build trust on the other side?
It would appear that I am not the only person who would need to loosen the blinkers from their eyes!!
Is mise, Squaletto.:)

Squaletto

Squaletto wrote:

I am getting a clearer picture of the whole situation now thanks to you but there still remain a few things I am unsure about. You said that the IRA were the reason for the lack of reunification of Ireland as they fought their war against the forces of the state. I half agree with you there

I did not say that.If you quoted me correctly, you might agree 100% I said that the tit for tat that they encouraged, put it back 30 years.
Please quote me correctly when replying rather than putting words I did not say into my mouth-thanks.

but you left out why the nationalists took up arms in the first place. I don't want to go into the whole historical thing but the fact of the matter is that one side treated the other unfairly and unjust. Result was division of communities etc. The British machine in the north and south is fearsome and cannot be trusted,

Seeing as most of the issues were cleared up by the UK's membership of the EU, there was no justification for the continuation of violence.

the PSNI is part of the problem. Many nationalists do not trust their so called police service and according to many nationalists that I spoke to in the north during the summer it was the PSNI or closely related groups which carried out the heist.

Many nationalists but not a majority of them-regardless, there were many means to remedy that democratically without resorting to bombing,maiming and shooting-thats a reprehensible barbaric undemocratic and un regulated activity.

Yes you are right I do not have proof it was them but neither do the PSNI have any credible proof it was the IRA.

As posted earlier, you have no clue as to whats in the case untill its presented-ergo you are indicating a personal bias there.

Once again we are in a no win situation. I have wondered though who would the heist benefit most and my answer points to those who want to wreck the GFA and go back to the futile killing days of old.

With respect thats rubbish, simply because the republican leadership would not want to go down that road ever again, it would decimate their new political support.

We have seen the IRA state that for them the war is over but unfortunately the PSNI are still antagonising nationalist areas while turning a blind eye to loyalists turfing out families in areas of Belfast where murdering gangs continue to operate without as much as a whisper from the PSNI. How can that build trust on the other side?

you are suggesting that the lack of intervention by the PSNI in loyalist feuds is damaging their support amongst nationalists.
I'd say thats more than stretching it...
I'd imagine Republicans have more to be thinking about than what loyalists are doing to each other

It would appear that I am not the only person who would need to loosen the blinkers from their eyes!!
Is mise, Squaletto.:)

I'm looking at this entirely neutrally.It's obvious you are not.But as you say yourself you are learning

p.s please use paragraphs-thanks

Diorraing

Earthman wrote:

Seeing as most of the issues were cleared up by the UK's membership of the EU, there was no justification for the continuation of violence.

Complete and utter rubbish! Uk joined the EU in 1973, one year after bloody Sunday. Do you honestly think that everything was now rosy in the garden just one year after one of the most sickening instances in the troubles. RUC collusion continued up until the late 80s and some suggest even up to the present day. Things didn't start to settle down in the north until the Anglo-Irish agreement and even after that it took a lot of time for the nationalists to trust the brits. By the way internment went on until circa 1976 so your statement really is nonsense. Dont delude yourslef

Diorraing

Diorraing wrote:

Complete and utter rubbish! Uk joined the EU in 1973, one year after bloody Sunday. Do you honestly think that everything was now rosy in the garden just one year after one of the most sickening instances in the troubles. RUC collusion continued up until the late 80s and some suggest even up to the present day. Things didn't start to settle down in the north until the Anglo-Irish agreement and even after that it took a lot of time for the nationalists to trust the brits. By the way internment went on until circa 1976 so your statement really is nonsense. Dont delude yourslef

Well I was referring to them being cleared up by membership of the EU-but I didnt say overnight...

I hope you dont think its right to bomb shoot and maim to further a cause in Ireland?
With respect, I think thats where any delusion would be-tiny minorities don't have the right to bomb maim and shoot their way to getting what they want.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

I hope you dont think its right to bomb shoot and maim to further a cause in Ireland?

Do you think it is ever right to bomb shoot and maim to further a cause?

Diorraing

Earthman wrote:

Well I was referring to them being cleared up by membership of the EU-but I didnt say overnight...

I hope you dont think its right to bomb shoot and maim to further a cause in Ireland?
With respect, I think thats where any delusion would be-tiny minorities don't have the right to bomb maim and shoot their way to getting what they want.

They do have a right to bomb, maim and shoot their way to getting what they want, if what they want are basic human rights. Gerrymadering, Interment, Collusion not to mention the difficulties Catholics had in getting jobs or houses. Most of the Catholic towns were slums through no fault of their own. They tried the peaceful methods aswell but what happened when they tried that? They were shot down like animals.
Its time to step off the moral highground and look at the reality of what was really going on.

oscarBravo

Diorraing wrote:

They do have a right to bomb, maim and shoot their way to getting what they want, if what they want are basic human rights.

One person's human (or, more accurately, civil) rights are more important than an innocent stranger's right to be alive?

Charming perspective.

Sand

Its time to step off the moral highground and look at the reality of what was really going on.

Yes it is. Provos simply arent equipped to do that though with some notable exceptions.

One person's human (or, more accurately, civil) rights are more important than an innocent stranger's right to be alive?

I think we should be simply glad SFIRA arent chain smokers.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Do you think it is ever right to bomb shoot and maim to further a cause?

Loaded and difficult question.
If you mean is there a difference between a war that a countries elected government declares and one performed by a group who have no mandate-yes I believe one is worse than the other.
Both are bad though.