Scumbags

marco murphy

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article11157.htm
The video, which first appeared on a website that has been linked unofficially to Aegis Defence Services, contained four separate clips, in which security guards open fire with automatic rifles at civilian cars. All of the shooting incidents apparently took place on "route Irish", a road that links the airport to Baghdad.

breandan

Iv just been watching a report on Sky news about this very subject.
They (Skypoke to an exSAS fella 'working' in Iraq who said that in the last year the pool of highly trianed military personel willing to go to Iraq and work in the security business had run dry and that all manner of cowboys were now decending on Iraq in search of action and adventure. To my mind these mercinaries (Irishmen among them) are no better than the Al Qaeda mob.
Sure they work for the 'good guys' (America/Britain) as some on here see them but theyre hired guns pure n simple whos motivation is greed and who long for violence as by the very nature of their work peace puts them on the dole line.

Jimboo_Jones

its quite sickening - but I think it will probably fall within the rules of engagement. IE - the car the approaching them (under 200 yards) and didnt heed to warning shots.

I would be suprised if anyone gets done over this.

Manic Moran

Hmm.

The first and last clips are definitely questionable. I didn't see any call to continue firing at the van like that once it had obviously stopped, and the last one seems to have been devoid of any warning shots whatsoever. (What we cannot see is if any visual signals were given: i.e. person with rifle waving madly). Number 2 looked like they fired warning shots, the driver ducked and crashed into the Caprice. Number 3 was probably the most 'legal' of them all: They lob a gunfire simulator by the side of the road, the car takes the hint. When it approaches again, they fire warning shots. There is no indication that the car was hit, he just pulled over and got out of the vehicle.

On a personal note, I take some professional offense that there is a deemed requirement for private security companies. I mean, there are 150,000 Americans there alone. What do they need mercenaries for? I can see why some private companies may hire them, but the US government does too, for VIP protection.

NTM

Jimboo_Jones

I think its people exploiting the rules of engagement to kill people, but alas that is what has become of Iraq today.

The fact that they have decided to film it then add a song track over it is probably a good indicator to the type of charactor that they are. Scumbags is a good description.

There was another one on ITV this morning where US soldiers appeared to be carrying out random acts of violence against property.

Manic Moran

Jimboo_Jones wrote:

The fact that they have decided to film it then add a song track over it is probably a good indicator to the type of charactor that they are. Scumbags is a good description.

That in itself isn't unusual. I just watched a 13-minute video clip set to three rock songs consisting of pretty much nothing but gun camera footage from attack helicopters blowing the heck out of things (usually AFVs) during the 2003 invasion.

There are plenty such videos out there. It's not generally considered tasteless in itself.

NTM

Jimboo_Jones

I suppose it depends on a persons individual taste, personaly I find footage of what appear to be innocent people being killed pretty distastefull.

I dont think I would enjoy seing soldier being killed either, but again thats personal taste again... I just think about that thats someone whoes life has ended and it shouldn't be boiled down to a piece of entertainment for us.

dont think I have expressed myself to well, but you get the drift

A Dub in Glasgo

It is obvious that the US has allowed a carte blance killing spree from their side and the protectors of their interests

Ping Chow Chi

Manic Moran wrote:

That in itself isn't unusual. I just watched a 13-minute video clip set to three rock songs consisting of pretty much nothing but gun camera footage from attack helicopters blowing the heck out of things (usually AFVs) during the 2003 invasion.

There are plenty such videos out there. It's not generally considered tasteless in itself.

NTM

I find it surprising that that you think that the filming the murder of innocence civilians being killed on film to be unsurprising – maybe the situation in Iraq is even worse than I first thought.

what the hell is happening over there?

honestly - you have worried me more than any speach that Blair or Bush has made .... just what is exceptable in Iraq today, after all you are the people who are at ground zero in Iraq

how would you feel, if a member of your family had been killed for what amounted to be a traffic offence... and then then their murder had been captured on video, had a rock track added to it and then broadcast over the net... just for other people titillation .. just how little value is an Iraq life worth now days

... what ever you think of Iraqi’s, they are still humans, and still should be afforded the basic Principles of life, exceptable is hardly the word that would come to my mind.

agian, you really have worried me..... I hope I have mis-read what you have said

Manic Moran

My comment was directed at the practise of putting footage of shooting to music in general. Any previous examples I have seen have been military-on-military actions. This is the first time I've ever seen it done when the targets are clearly civilians, however. That does change the issue a bit, and you will note that I said in my first post on this thread that it looked like the contractors went too far in their actions.

There are rules and regulations to be followed. In this case, it doesn't seem that Aegis employees always followed the rules which the military has. In which case, they probably should be prosecuted. It does, however, bring up an interesting legal question of who should actually do the prosecuting, and exactly what defined rules were broken: As civilian contractors in a foreign country, I don't think they would fall under any laws of US/UK/wherever, neither are they subject to military laws. Iraq could extradite, if they had identification of transgressors with proof.

I think the only legal recourse is a civil suit against the company, or simply ostracising the company so that nobody ever does business with it again. It won't help those who were shot, but would at least provide an example to other mercenary contractors to behave themselves.

NTM

Esel

Poblachtach wrote:

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article11157.htm
The video, which first appeared on a website that has been linked unofficially to Aegis Defence Services, contained four separate clips, in which security guards open fire with automatic rifles at civilian cars. All of the shooting incidents apparently took place on "route Irish", a road that links the airport to Baghdad.

Your point being?

A Dub in Glasgo

esel wrote:

Your point being?

Your contribution to the thread being?

The reason for all this angst being?

lili

esel wrote:

Your point being?

maybe his point is that a dictator has been put down, but iraqis are still victims of the same treatment.

marco murphy

I believe iraq is worse off now.
I have videos of american soldiers shooting ''attacking dogs'' when infact the dog walked straight by.

Often happens when countries that have an underlying conflict become "free"

Look at the old USSR and all those new "free" countries that end in "...stan" and chechyna

You take away a dictatorship, leave a void and you get the messers out in force singing we will we will rock [read:shoot] you.

LORDOFDOOM

What's really worrying is that at some point all these people, including a load of emotionally scared soldiers, will be coming home. We've already seen one soldier freak out and kill a few cops, it's gonna be much worse in 5 years though.

Victor

Poblachtach wrote:

I believe iraq is worse off now.
I have videos of american soldiers shooting ''attacking dogs'' when infact the dog walked straight by.

Dogs are considered vermin in Iraq (part of the reason dogs were used for intimidation purposes).

junkyard

It seems to me that killing animals is like a warm up lap for these guys before they start killing people. There are some terrible things done in the name of peace keeping for sure.:(

MichaelJackass

A Job well done methinks as most likely they were insurgents etc...

Pity they did'nt get more of them

And Phoblatch you yourself proclaim to have terrorist views so how are you disgusted as they are the same as you...Oh yeah what would you know you 15 year old wannabe

MichaelJackass

MichaelJackass wrote:

And Phoblatch you yourself proclaim to have terrorist views so how are you disgusted as they are the same as you...Oh yeah what would you know you 15 year old wannabe

carefull now
putting a smiley after it doesnt make it humour.
Deal with the post please and not the poster-thanks,its in the charter.

Manic Moran

Victor wrote:

Dogs are considered vermin in Iraq (part of the reason dogs were used for intimidation purposes).

That's an interesting mismatch between what's 'supposed to happen' and what 'actually happens'.

We found a lot of families who had dogs as pets. Whilst there were certainly some people who either didn't like dogs, or took umbrage at the thought of a dog sniffing them or their home, they weren't as universally disliked as we had been led to believe.

Similarly, for example, there are ample briefings along the lines of 'never show the sole of your feet', yet we would notice that frequently the locals would sit down on the floor with soles showing (to each other, not just us!) simply because it's a lot more comfortable and practical. Not saying the information is wrong, and we did keep by the policy, it's just overstated.

NTM