My father.

LegacyUser

So me and my father haven't talked for several months at this stage. I don't know what to do. When I'm at home I just don't want to be near him, but, in the cool of the library, so to speak, I miss having a relationship with him and I'm terrrified that we may never be reconciled. I think of all he's done for me...and it's just really sad that things have gotten this way.

The ongoing problem is, everything I've done in the past year, he seems to disapprove of. Most of this stuff is college-related, whereby I just barely scraped through last year, by doing repeats in the summer. I basically do very little college-work (I'm more of a crammer), and get a quite a lot of grief about it, as I live at home. I believe that I should be left alone about it, but what the arguments always boil down to are my parents basically saying; "We are financing you, so you had better do the work and go out of your way to show us that you're doing it". It's like some sponsorship deal whereby if I don't do what my sponsors tell me, my contract is breached and I get kicked out...

He's as good a father as you could ever hope for, in so many ways, but we just can never see eye to eye. I think I was the last son he had his hopes pinned on, as my other brother/s are basically wasters.
We used to at least go and do things together like playing golf all the time in the summer. I don't really play it anymore. If I wanted to, I don't even know how I would go about beginning to go back out playing with him. So basically we have absolutely no common ground anymore. This summer I basically stopped going to mass, due to reasons arising from my actual beliefs, and I think he is probably very disappointed in me. The truth is, my faith is stronger than ever, but I don't really go wiht any regulatiry anymore, so he doesn't know this.

Nothing I do seems to be appropriate to him. I really sometimes feel sorry for him and worry about him, as back when we could still talk, I was the only person in our family that he got on with. I don't think anyone else in my family really talks to him. I know from personal experience that my mother simply can't be communicated with on any mature or civil level. He just comes home from work in the evening and quietly does his own thing, you know? I don't know exactly what that kind of chronic isolation can do to someone his age (early fifties), but it can't be good, can it?

I don't want to be standing at my father's grave one day some years down the line, thinking; "I wish we could have been father and son, just for those years of my life."

How can I even begin to fix this, to thaw out the whole situation? It's not easy for me to just walk up to him and speak my feelings like this... I don't want to end up as the kind of guy who hates his father, trying to reject his own heritage and identity...

Has anyone else had this kind of problem? Have you overcome it? Have you any advice?

WhiteWashMan

have you tried talking to him?

BeardyGit

I read your post and to be honest, I could have written the exact same thing 8 or 9 years back. Having come out the far side of a very similar situation (replace college with working in I.T. in the boom years) I hope my input can be of some help to you.

It sounds like your parents are probably very similar to mine - My dad is a somewhat quiet but very strong minded and confident man who has real passion for anything he decides to do. My mother is much more expressive in her criticism of anything she doesn't like the look of and really can't hold back for long, even if she tries to restrain herself. This has frequently made them very difficult to relate to at certain times when dealing with certain events in my professional and personal life. My dad has a very traditional approach to commitment in every sense of the word and strongly believes that when one makes a commitment to something (work/college/etc), you owe it to everyone involved, including oneself, to see it through to its conclusion.

A failure to do so would suggest that you're unreliable, unable to be productive and succeed in whatever you've set your mind to do. If that's what your Dad is like, you should probably acknowledge that it's something that's at the very core of the man. It's part of his makeup and something that will never change. And while your Dad would probably be quite happy for you to decide for yourself what you'll do with your life, having a goal and working hard to reach it will be something that he expects from you. The decision is yours to make, but following up on it and doing what you have to do to get there is not optional as far as he's concerned. Your parents have no doubt had to work very hard to raise and support you and your two brothers for many, many years. They've seen you lot through everything that's faced you and that's taken commitment and hard work. You'll face it in the future too no doubt. It's only natural that your Dad wants you to make the best of what you have now and show them that you'll be able to face up to lifes challenges with determination and a will to succeed. Right now - You're not doing that.

You made a decision to go to college. He supported you (and not just financially) and you repaid this by demonstrating a laid back approach to a commitment you'd made to the college, to yourself and most importantly, to yourself. The results? Well, you're repeating. And you know what? If you'd shown your parents that you were busting your balls to do well and had failed anyway, they'd wade in behind you to give you whatever extra support they could. They'd know that you have what it takes to break your back to pull yourself through whatever life has in store for you.

Get back to me and let me know if you think what I'm saying above has merit. There's more to come but it's important we're both on the same page before I continue.

Cheerio,

Gil

jimmycrackcorm

well said.

As A father of a young child now, I'm only now begining to realize what I meant to my parents and I can see why the ops father is as he is. It is completely natural to want the best so much for your offspring and to push them towards it even if they resent or disagree.

I think the Op basically throwing back his parents efforts in their faces. They do have a very valid point that they are financing his study and he is wasitng it. Of particular note is how he feels he is more of a crammer yet had to repeat. What does that say except barely lucky.

I'd say to the op that he is the one to make up the middle ground here.

Beruthiel

when you become a parent, your commitment towards your child is the strongest thing on the planet. You love this tiny little person with all your heart. You want her (in my case) to be everything she can be. You want them to be happy, confident, independent and self reliant.
As you get older you know what must be done in order for the above to happen. So, you try to help your child by encouraging and pushing them to try harder in whatever it is that they are interested in. You put your heart and soul into it. To have them not bother when you have done all of the above must be heart breaking for a parent. They wonder where they went wrong and what they could have done differently.
I have not had someone close to me die yet, but my da had a minor stroke last year, I got a tiny example of the pain that's in the post when he does eventually go, let me tell you now, that pain will be 10 times worse for you if you don't sort your relationship with him now.
I know my da is very proud of me and that gives me great comfort.
It is not an easy thing for your or him to sort this out, but you can be quite sure he is feeling just as badly about this as you are. It will just take a tiny litte bit of effort on your part. All you have to do is ask him out for a game of golf, by the end of the day it will be back like it was before.

We are financing you, so you had better do the work and go out of your way to show us that you're doing it

damn straight.
are your parents so rich that you think their money grows on trees? could they be heading off on a round the world trip instead of putting their hard earned cash into a son who doesn't seem to be too bothered one way or another? your attitude is a tad on the selfish side to say the least.
time to grow up a little and to show your parents that their love and effort is not going to waste.

The Ritz

There are elements of familiarity in your post that are ringing a bell in my head. As a parent of an almost adult daughter, I expect to be supporting her through college. She's pretty laid back - waaaay more laid back than I was a that age, but the different economc circumstances of the last 10 years or so have meant that the very real prospect of no choice other than emigration at 18 is now practically unheard of. If she has the laid back attitude that you describe

I just barely scraped through last year, by doing repeats in the summer. I basically do very little college-work (I'm more of a crammer)

in her first year, then she'll be supporting herself and paying for the rest of her college education - I'll be out of the picture. Horrifying ? Nope, just real life - workee = money, no workee = ooops, poops.


My wife and I both worked full time while doing third level education. We appreciate that student life could be a good thing (part of the "universal education" I guess) and we're prepared to "sponsor" it, as you put it, provided the person involved is actually being a student, which includes, horror of horrors, studying, amongst the myriad other things students do. Why should I work and pay for someone who wants a free ride ? I expect 4 years college to run out about 30 - 40k, maybe less if I'm lucky. Anyone like to make a suggestion as to what toys I should spend that kind of dosh on instead ?

I don't know whether this issue is an important element in the breakdown of communications between you and your Dad, but if it was me, it sure would be, and I'm a bit younger than him.

Enough of that........... Do you want to resolve this with your Dad ? Write him a letter describing how you view things particularly your relationship with him. If you like and admire the guy, then you owe it to yourself and to him to tell him that. You've described the situation pretty well here - I realise that it can be difficult to get communication back on track - fear of rejection, danger of "saying the wrong thing" and making things worse. Look at it this way - you told us, you have nothing to lose by telling him. (I'd play down the dossing through college bit if I was you.........................:) )



The Ritz.

(omg I posted in PI............ )

sideFX

It's nice to see you care.

I was in a similiar situation from the time I was 16 to 25. I got into some serious trouble and never mind my immediate family, my extended family too blanked me. I didn't care tbh. Then one day I woke up and did and had similiar thoughts like yourself, what happens if one of them die?

Anyway, what fixed it was I grew up. I took responsabilty for myself and my actions. I matured slowly. I can't change them I can only change me.

The long and the short of it is that it wasn't my folks I had something to prove to, it was me, and still is.

7 years later and it is still a struggle tbh but it works in its own way.

Put your head down and get on with things. Talk to them. Let them know how you feel and don't get into an argument with them. It's not a nice place to be with your dad at all. I feel for you.

Then there is the option you can always move out...

Smile at troubles cause troubles are bubbles and bubbles always float away ..

LegacyUser

WhiteWashMan - Thanks for the tip, it never occured to me.

Gil_Dub - Yes, that's a very accurate description of my own parents.

Well, I'm actually not the kind of person who does things in a half-arsed way. For some reason, college seems to be the exception to this rule. I shouldn't really bother going into it, but many factors seem to contribute toward my struggling at college. I feel like I've burned out and I just can't ever concentrate the way I used to be able to. In other aspects of my life, though, I never settle for mediocrity or half-measures. This applies in particular to playing music and to writing. Basically any of the creative things I do. I am actually in many, many respects, quite anal and perfectionist. This often leaves me wondering as to why exactly I'm so un-motivated about college and why my room and my life-style in general is such a mess...

I seem to have given you the impression that I am actually repeating a year of college, this is not the case. I had to do repeat exams last summer but I passed and proceeded to the next year like everyone else.

To tell the truth, I've been incredibley headstrong and stubborn about what other posters have described as my "being laid-back". My attitude is that I will get the job done, and I should be left alone about it until then. At the first sign of my slipping up academically, the nagging and arguing begins. I think this is unfair. I believe my parents should hold their tongues until they see my results at the end of the year. The nagging and threatening only drags me down, long before I've even truly failed anything. Intsead of encouraging me, I feel they put me down for not measuring up. They constantly prophecise my financial and social doom, once I "get a dose of reality", or have to live "in the real world". Though they are designed to motivate me, these kinds of comments are nothing short of insults, threats, and put-downs, to me. The truth is, they do show very little faith in me at this stage, and it's probably my own fault. Not through any lack of tangible achievement on my part, but through the attitude I display toward it, outwardly, at least.
In short, Gil, what I'm saying is, contrary to your saying "He supported you (and not just financially)", from my point of view, the only support I'm getting is financial, and everything else they give is made up of what I detailed in the above paragraph.

But, yeah, Gil, your words are definitely a big help in advising me, and we are on the same page, I think.

I think the whole domestic situation is just getting worse with my father. It seems like he spends a lot more time down the pub these days, and regularly comes home in these really pessimistic moods, being critical of everyone, until he just gives up and goes to bed. He can never be reasoned with or talked to when he is in these moods, and they seem to only happen post-pub. He just seems so weary of it all.

As things stand, it looks as if I'll have to change my entire life and my personality just to make my father happy. My view on this regularly switches from feeling guilty about it, to feeling resentful, defiant and basically angry about it. I will try to pull my full weight in college, but it's very, very difficult. I feel tired and burned-out. Other personal issues (which I will not go into - let it suffice to say this is not a medical board) are pervading every aspect of my life and basically destroying them. Getting up in the morning to go to college gets harder and harder every day. Sometimes I don't even see the point in getting my degree, because I think by that time, these other problems will have continued to escalate and will have made my life completely unlive-able. I say all of this only to try to rationalise my own lack of motivation college-wise, I suppose.

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I think the Op basically throwing back his parents efforts in their faces. They do have a very valid point that they are financing his study and he is wasitng it. Of particular note is how he feels he is more of a crammer yet had to repeat. What does that say except barely lucky

Believe me or believe me not, I'm not throwing my parent's efforts back in their faces, nor am I wasting my study. Yeah, I cram. It worked, didn't it? I passed. My study methods have gotten me a lot further than my own parent's ever got. My methods have gotten me where I am and thus shouldn't be questioned. Not until they are proven unsound, at least, and so far they are proven very sound indeed. That's my position on it. Maybe you can see how and why I might clash with my parents on this, but I still believe I am in the right. With regard to the "cramming", it's not as bad as it sounds, because most of my marks in college go for practical work and lab attendance, etc. My parents don't see me do much study when I come home, which is what they find fault with, but most of my work is done in college. This is something they can't seem to be made to understand.
Lucky? There is no such thing. To quote Gary Player; "The more I practice, the luckier I seem to get!".

Beruthiel wrote:

So, you try to help your child by encouraging and pushing them to try harder

I'm not saying this is the case with my own parents, but, "pushing" your children, is a risky game to play. I suppose my not being a father makes me "unqualified" in this respect, but I believe you should teach them to push themselves, rather than you pushing them.

Beruthiel wrote:

We are financing you, so you had better do the work and go out of your way to show us that you're doing it

damn straight.
are your parents so rich that you think their money grows on trees? could they be heading off on a round the world trip instead of putting their hard earned cash into a son who doesn't seem to be too bothered one way or another? your attitude is a tad on the selfish side to say the least.
time to grow up a little and to show your parents that their love and effort is not going to waste.

I'd really prefer if you could spare me the "money doesn't grow on trees" type of comment. Believe it or not, I'm well aware of it. It's not like I don't spend every weekend working my hole off just to pay for musical equipment. I hope you know that I don't live "the student life", or anything even resembling it. I live 2 hours away from college and I probably go on a night out with my mates from college just once a month.
No, my parents aren't rich. And I better not sense any resentment toward the "spoilt college-boy". I get enough **** from people who either didn't have their chance to go 3rd level, or else blew their chance. If anyone has a chip on their shoulder about that, I advise them to take it elsewhere.
You are a bit pre-mature in assessing my attitude as selfish, TBH. Would I really be here posting any of this if I didn't give a toss about my parents?
Well, thanks for the advice all the same. It'll be a while before we've got decent weather for a round of golf, though. I'll try to get back out there with him, though.

The Ritz wrote:

Horrifying ? Nope, just real life - workee = money, no workee = ooops, poops.

I don't want to seem ungrateful for your advice here, but these things do not come as news to me. I'm not the jaded daddy's/momma's boy you apparently(?) think I am. It's exactly these kinds of comments that create friction between myself and my parents. (Though in fairness it's usually my mother that comes out with these lines.)

The Ritz wrote:

My wife and I both worked full time while doing third level education. We appreciate that student life could be a good thing (part of the "universal education" I guess) and we're prepared to "sponsor" it, as you put it, provided the person involved is actually being a student, which includes, horror of horrors, studying, amongst the myriad other things students do.

Well fair play to you for working full-time during college, but I have a notion that my degree is a damn sight more demanding than most people's. I'm doing one of the most prestigious engineering degrees in Europe, and it's not the kind of thing you undertake with other commitments like full-time jobs on the go. I have very little free time from college, and I spend most of that either working, or practising and organising to try and turn my shambles of a band around. I don't live this "student life" that you are referring to. I rarely ever go out at night with my friends. A bit of football every week is the only real college activity I partake in.

Something that may be of significance is that when I was doing my leaving cert, my Dad basically forced me to quit the football club I had been playing at for a very long time. I've never since gone back to playing club football, as I just don't have the spare time or energy.

With regards to running up a bill for four years of college, yeah, that's a lot of money. But I just take exception to the way I'm supposed to be treated like I'm some kind of business investment, that has to pay a dividend 4 years or more down the line. That's not encouragement, that's just pressure.

The Ritz wrote:

Enough of that........... Do you want to resolve this with your Dad ? Write him a letter describing how you view things particularly your relationship with him. If you like and admire the guy, then you owe it to yourself and to him to tell him that. You've described the situation pretty well here - I realise that it can be difficult to get communication back on track - fear of rejection, danger of "saying the wrong thing" and making things worse. Look at it this way - you told us, you have nothing to lose by telling him.

Yeah, I'll try to find a way to tell him. Maybe I could use this thread as a means to make him understand. It's hard.

Well, thanks for all the advice, folks, it was helpful. I'll try to heed it.
Cheers.