irish ferries

Hagar

Easy with the "stupid". Personal abuse is not welcome.:mad:

ronbyrne2005

Hagar wrote:

Easy with the "stupid". Personal abuse is not welcome.:mad:

very sesitive arent ya :v: they operate on the irish sea so even if they were owned by china and staffed with africans you could still call it irish ferries,enough of the nostalgia and nationalism

Hagar

A couple of years ago BA tried to change the logo on their aircraft from "British Airways" to simply "British" they even had repainted a large part of their aircraft with the word "British". They were forced to revert to the original name as the advertising standards authority deemed it misleading dur to the fact that the aircraft were American made, the staff weren't all British and the owners(shareholders) may not even be British. So there is some precendent that a company may not portray itself as representative of a nation if the link is not strong enough.

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

eastern europeans are prepared to work for "sh1t pay" as you say because they are happy they dont live under communist tyranny anymore

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

the people get the government they deserve

A bit of a contradiction there. Did they deserve the tyrants?

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

companies pay wages and provide greater security to the employee

Just until the next source of cheaper labour come on stream, China, India ?

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

advanced economy like ours

What's so advanced about our economy? Jobs being created by multinationals who will go with the labour market when it suits? We are living off the crumbs from the rich man's table.

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

corporations have a lot of power but people give them this franchise and the people seem content the way things are

If people are so happy why are there protests?

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

your a tiny minority for now and am deluding yourself that everyone feels like you

Please back this up with some stats or else people might think it's you who are delusional.

I'm not overly sensitive, I'm just pointing out that personal abuse is not allowed. I you like I could report the post and see what a mod thinks.

Elmo

dont be stupid,the irish government has no power to stop any private company using irish in their business names,companies all over the world use irish in their company name and product names.

I was told that the Irish Sun and other "Irish" tabloids where asked to show that they where Irish by setting up offices in Ireland. But there are so many cases where that is not true so I find it hard to beleive.

But the use of Irish Symbols goes even futher to suggest that they are Irish when they are not.

ronbyrne2005

Hagar wrote:

A couple of years ago BA tried to change the logo on their aircraft from "British Airways" to simply "British" they even had repainted a large part of their aircraft with the word "British". They were forced to revert to the original name as the advertising standards authority deemed it misleading dur to the fact that the aircraft were American made, the staff weren't all British and the owners(shareholders) may not even be British. So there is some precendent that a company may not portray itself as representative of a nation if the link is not strong enough.wheres the evidence for this,provide links


A bit of a contradiction there. Did they deserve the tyrants? "initially they supported communism,then they didnt try to overthrow the communist rulers so yes they deserved them"



Just until the next source of cheaper labour come on stream, China, India ? "thats life mate,its a well known economic fact that countries prosper most when they focus on the comptetitive asnd comparitive advantages"

What's so advanced about our economy? Jobs being created by multinationals who will go with the labour market when it suits? We are living off the crumbs from the rich man's table. "advanced economy merely means one that is at a high level of gdp with decreasing levels of low skilled industrial jobs etc"


If people are so happy why are there protests? "people are protesting because they are greedy and want more money like they got under benchmarking etc and more protectionism to prevent willing immigrants undercutting them"


Please back this up with some stats or else people might think it's you who are delusional. "look at the last election results,no socialist parties do well in this country ,this shows peoples contentment with their materialistic capitalist economy"
I'm not overly sensitive, I'm just pointing out that personal abuse is not allowed. I you like I could report the post and see what a mod thinks. " feel free to report me for anything you like but i doubt anyone else would interperet what i said as personal abuse its a common expression and isnt meant literally when used

1

ronbyrne2005

Elmo wrote:

I was told that the Irish Sun and other "Irish" tabloids where asked to show that they where Irish by setting up offices in Ireland. But there are so many cases where that is not true so I find it hard to beleive.

evidence of this hearsay please

Cork

Even when you look at German Discount Stores like Aldi and Lidl - What % of food that these shops stock is Irish?

The Irish suger thing was a disgrace.

There is a website:
http://www.careerplanner.com/Career-Articles/Offshoring-Jobs.htm

About off shoring jobs.

dathi1

average monthly wage in latvia=115euro, wage per month with irish ferries@3.60hour for 40 hr week=576euro over 4 times wage in latvia,,no wonder they are happy to work there.why do you want to stop these people from improving their lives and earning good wages,you are depriving them of the right to provide for their families and to improve their home economy.

Vote Yes to Jobs. Vote Yes to Nice.

Irish Ferries ICTU, SIPTU, FF, FG, LB Ect....

Hagar

Much as I would like to give links to back up my personal knowledge on the British Airways name change I am unable to as a search for "British Airways" or "Airline name change" results in literally millions of returns. You can either accept what I have said as truthful or not. I don't really care.

BTW you posted "1" what the hell does that mean?
Is it a childish way of inferring that you have won some kind of victory?
Well goody for you. Don't forget to tell your family how clever you were and take a note in your diary in big red letters. Here's 20c ring your friend and tell him. no wait here's 40c ring all your friends. This might be the apex of your life. You may well remember the witty ripostes of today's encounter on you deathbed.*

*Now that's how to abuse someone...saying stupid just isn't enough, non-malicious I might add. LOL

Elmo

evidence of this hearsay please

I said I found it hard to beleive.

BuffyBot

A couple of years ago BA tried to change the logo on their aircraft from "British Airways" to simply "British" they even had repainted a large part of their aircraft with the word "British". They were forced to revert to the original name as the advertising standards authority deemed it misleading dur to the fact that the aircraft were American made, the staff weren't all British and the owners(shareholders) may not even be British. So there is some precendent that a company may not portray itself as representative of a nation if the link is not strong enough.

OT slightly, but I think you're getting mixed up. For quite some time in the late 70's early 80's, British Airways simply had the word British on their fleet, and as far as I'm aware flew without a problem.

However, in the late 90's/00's they launched a new idenity with "symbols of the world" on the tails of their planes which was met with a lot of disdain that the so called "national" (even though it was a private company) airline of the UK could do this and become so "un-British". BA in turn decided (but wasn't forced) to revert all of their planes to one of the designs, which was a trailing red white and blue section representative of the Union Jack.

ronbyrne2005

Hagar wrote:

Much as I would like to give links to back up my personal knowledge on the British Airways name change I am unable to as a search for "British Airways" or "Airline name change" results in literally millions of returns. You can either accept what I have said as truthful or not. I don't really care.

BTW you posted "1" what the hell does that mean?
Is it a childish way of inferring that you have won some kind of victory?
Well goody for you. Don't forget to tell your family how clever you were and take a note in your diary in big red letters. Here's 20c ring your friend and tell him. no wait here's 40c ring all your friends. This might be the apex of your life. You may well remember the witty ripostes of today's encounter on you deathbed.*

*Now that's how to abuse someone...saying stupid just isn't enough, non-malicious I might add. LOL

i had to type at least one character for the quoted text to be posted! i think your reading a little too much into a character i had to post which was first into my mind i'll change it to any letter you like if it bothers you ! can you give me 60cent as i have 3 friends!

billy the squid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

dont be stupid,the irish government has no power to stop any private company using irish in their business names,companies all over the world use irish in their company name and product names.

tell that to the feta cheese people, and the champagne people.

cheese outside of greece can't be called feta and sparkling wine can't be called champaigne unless it comes from the right region of france.

ronbyrne2005

billy the squid wrote:

tell that to the feta cheese people, and the champagne people.

cheese outside of greece can't be called feta and sparkling wine can't be called champaigne unless it comes from the right region of france.

these are specific regional produce and the protections for them is more to do with the legal concept of "passing off" and copyright infringement. use of a geographical name for a company/service is'nt regulated in any way,we dont own the right to use the word "irish"!

billy the squid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

stop talking crap, comparing willing workers to child labour and slaves is an attempt to blur the issue.

Actually you will find that children in this country used to go to work of their own free will. therefore they were willing to work also.

most people working on boats flying flags of convienience cant be treated in any old way and there are actually unions representing many of these workers (International Transport Workers' Federation the International Labour Organisation and the International Maritime Organisation)

the same International Transport Workers Federation who yesterday supported the day of protest and SIPTU.

just because they arent paid irish minimum wage(highest in europe) doesnt mean they are exploited and vast majority are happy to do the jobs so therefore thers no exploitation.

If they don't think they are being exploited then why did the Latvians tell irish ferries to politely to go **** themselves?

You say "no other industry could get away with what irish ferries are doing" thank you for telling the scare mongerors in the unions that the demonstration yesterday was a waste of time because "no other industry could get away with what irish ferries are doing" and therefore land based irish employees have nothing to worry about and the latvian workers are happy and 90% of irish ferries staff voted for the generous redundancy package so everyone is happy!

like I said above, the latvians are not happy. I would imagine that other transport companies would be pissed off at shipping being allowed to **** their employees over while everyone else has to pay the going rate. It would put everyone on a level playing field, planes, and shipping, if they were governed by the same laws. Airlines do not have "flags of convenience" to the best of my knowledge.

i didnt see the trade unions here out demonstrating for shipping company employees around the world over the last 100 years+ which is how long these exemptions from labour laws have been going on,in fact you never see the greedy self serving unions complaing about anything except anything that threatens the feathering of their own nests.

oh yeah the International transport workers federation was formed last week then was it? how many ships have been impounded in this country after their workers requested representation from the ITWF affiliate here, which happens to be SIPTU.

These marine workers from other countries were not paying union dues to SIPTU so they were not feathering their nests then.

how ironic that 100,00 people march (many of whom have jobs for life in sheltered public sector) for staff in irish ferries who 90% accepted the proposals for redundancy and for latvian workers who dont want the unions representing them. yes the trade union movement is so relevant today!

the ones who accepted the redundancy are free to go if they wish. it is the 10 percent who want to stay are being asked to take massive pay cuts, as well as the fact that the eastern european workers are not getting a decent wage.

by the way I'm in the private sector and i was out on Friday.

billy the squid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

these are specific regional produce and the protections for them is more to do with the legal concept of "passing off" and copyright infringement. use of a geographical name for a company/service is'nt regulated in any way,we dont own the right to use the word "irish"!

a Cypriot company cannot call itself Irish. the same way Feta cannot come from Ireland. the precedent for this has been set already through the european courts.

ronbyrne2005

billy the squid wrote:

a Cypriot company cannot call itself Irish. the same way Feta cannot come from Ireland. the precedent for this has been set already through the european courts.

bull, the eu ruled on regional food/wine which has come from specific regions and deserves protection becasue people copy it but theres no precedent for company names, provide evidence if this is true. anyway they are called "irish ferries" they arent claiming to be an irish company, the same as an irish guy running a property company here selling protperty in turkey called "turkish property limited"

billy the squid

Hagar wrote:

Much as I would like to give links to back up my personal knowledge on the British Airways name change I am unable to as a search for "British Airways" or "Airline name change" results in literally millions of returns. You can either accept what I have said as truthful or not. I don't really care.

BTW you posted "1" what the hell does that mean?
Is it a childish way of inferring that you have won some kind of victory?
Well goody for you. Don't forget to tell your family how clever you were and take a note in your diary in big red letters. Here's 20c ring your friend and tell him. no wait here's 40c ring all your friends. This might be the apex of your life. You may well remember the witty ripostes of today's encounter on you deathbed.*

*Now that's how to abuse someone...saying stupid just isn't enough, non-malicious I might add. LOL

the "1" at the end is more of a technical issue as one cannot post without putting something outside the

tags.

ronbyrne2005

billy the squid wrote:

Actually you will find that children in this country used to go to work of their own free will. therefore they were willing to work also. "was actually thinking that too,i suppose when there was no social welfare and they were happy to work to feed their families,i dont see it being exploitative unless the child was forced,so mr hagar was wrong in posting it in the first place"



the same International Transport Workers Federation who yesterday supported the day of protest and SIPTU. "yeah,whats the point ? i just said that although theres no /poor labour laws under marine law doesnt mean they are exploited/slave labour and lacking representation as hagar indicated.the itwf is a bit hypocritical as its members on other ships work for 3.60 an hour or less"



If they don't think they are being exploited then why did the Latvians tell irish ferries to politely to go **** themselves? "then why have they got hundreds of latvians in wales waiting to take over jobs on ship? and why did the latvian ambassador tell rte that the workers were happy to get the wage they were getting? i think if you read that story in the timesonline link it refers more to skilled workers and not the unskilled labour which is the majority of the jobs on the ship"



like I said above, the latvians are not happy. I would imagine that other transport companies would be pissed off at shipping being allowed to **** their employees over while everyone else has to pay the going rate. It would put everyone on a level playing field, planes, and shipping, if they were governed by the same laws. Airlines do not have "flags of convenience" to the best of my knowledge. "actually the type of goods transported on ships is never gonna be transported on planes due to its very nature so that argument is erroneous,shipping companies are only competing on a serious level with other shippers"



oh yeah the International transport workers federation was formed last week then was it? how many ships have been impounded in this country after their workers requested representation from the ITWF affiliate here, which happens to be SIPTU. " i was talking about irish based unions.the oceans are vast and there are many thousands of ships,you are always gonna get a few exploitative ship owners but i dont think irish ferries are and the vast majority of ship owners arent. "

These marine workers from other countries were not paying union dues to SIPTU so they were not feathering their nests then. "im not saying the irish unions never helped out non union workers in need ,i am saying they generally seek to feather the nests of their members and are using the irish ferries dispute to gain a strong bargaining position in partnership talks as they realise they are becoming increasingly irrelevant in todays world,its not really about the latvians or the vast majority of irish ferries staff who wanted to take redundancy package"



the ones who accepted the redundancy are free to go if they wish. it is the 10 percent who want to stay are being asked to take massive pay cuts, as well as the fact that the eastern european workers are not getting a decent wage. "what is a decent wage? answer;one which people are happy and prepared to work for,i think the latvians would agree.the 10% could take their massive redundancy payments and use it to retrain in a similar profession or set up a business,a tiny minority cant put a brake on things in any organisation.the company is private and they are entitled to let them go once they provide redundancy"
by the way I'm in the private sector and i was out on Friday.

2

billy the squid

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

2

can you use the quote tags properly please

ronbyrne2005

how will the irish ferries dispute be solved?
the company will offer minimum wage to the staff to avoid relocating to cyprus as its bad PR given the unwashed masses reaction, but they wont provide the transport home or much living expenses so in fact they will be getting the same wage after deductions .many people on minimum wage in ireland have to pay deductions due to uniforms etc so they will get away with these deductions or
maybe the company will keep employing irish ferries staff till the 2007 date agreed in the LRC to avoid further bad PR,then they will get rid of the irish staff but they wont get the same generous redundancy package.the company will then employ the low wage eastern europeans etc.
so basically the demonstrations of yesterday will achieve nothing regarding irish ferries but they may have frightened bertie and co enough to get another bumper partnership deal but the employers may play hardball as they know they can bring in cheaper workers for the whole economy from poland etc.

A Dub in Glasgo

It is very hard to follow this thread with the embedded replies within the quotes

billy the squid

"was actually thinking that too,i suppose when there was no social welfare and they were happy to work to feed their families,i dont see it being exploitative unless the child was forced,so mr hagar was wrong in posting it in the first place"

The reason it is illegal in this country is because it is considered exploitation. If it wasn't then we wouldnt have such an outcry over child labour in the third world.

"yeah,whats the point ? i just said that although theres no /poor labour laws under marine law doesnt mean they are exploited/slave labour and lacking representation as hagar indicated.the itwf is a bit hypocritical as its members on other ships work for 3.60 an hour or less"

The point is you claim that the ITWF are there to represent people when they feel they are being exploited. the link i posted proves that they are doing just that by supporting the SIPTU action and the day of protest. You still feel the need to piss and moan because the people you claim are there to protect seafarers are protecting seafarers.

"then why have they got hundreds of latvians in wales waiting to take over jobs on ship?

I think you should read the article.

The article linked in my last post wrote:

ONE of Latvia’s top maritime officials believes Irish Ferries will be forced to look elsewhere for ships’ officers because “even Filipinos would not work for such a wage”.

The article linked in my last post wrote:

Spridzans confirmed that Irish Ferries had recruited about 70 Latvians to work aboard their vessels since February

Spridzans believes the agency, Dobsona Kugniecibas Agentura, will find it impossible to find crew of the requisite calibre in any of the Baltic countries at Irish Ferries rates.

so 70 isnt hundreds.

and why did the latvian ambassador tell rte that the workers were happy to get the wage they were getting? i think if you read that story in the timesonline link it refers more to skilled workers and not the unskilled labour which is the majority of the jobs on the ship"

either the Latvian ambassador is talking bollox or else you misheard him, I dont know what the Latvian Ambassador said so i cannot really comment on it. The Irish ferries want to fill the unskilled positions with Latvians, and the latvians said "no thanks"

"actually the type of goods transported on ships is never gonna be transported on planes due to its very nature so that argument is erroneous,shipping companies are only competing on a serious level with other shippers"

both ships and planes are capable of carrying people. this is where the unlevel playing field is.

" i was talking about irish based unions.the oceans are vast and there are many thousands of ships,you are always gonna get a few exploitative ship owners but i dont think irish ferries are and the vast majority of ship owners arent. "

100,000 people disagree with you. well at least they said so yesterday. not to mention the ones who didnt say it yesterday.

"im not saying the irish unions never helped out non union workers in need ,i am saying they generally seek to feather the nests of their members and are using the irish ferries dispute to gain a strong bargaining position in partnership talks as they realise they are becoming increasingly irrelevant in todays world,its not really about the latvians or the vast majority of irish ferries staff who wanted to take redundancy package"

you claimed that the irish unions' sole purpose was to feather their nests"....

You wrote:

you never see the greedy self serving unions complaing about anything except anything that threatens the feathering of their own nests.

....and i proved you incorrect. now your backtracking. its gone from feathering their own nests to feathering the nests of their members. I didnt gain anything by foreign ships being impounded for poor conditions onboard.

"what is a decent wage? answer;one which people are happy and prepared to work for

the linked article states otherwise. the Latvian recruitment agencies say that filing the positions will be impossible as there is better money in Germany.

i think the latvians would agree.the 10% could take their massive redundancy payments and use it to retrain in a similar profession or set up a business,a tiny minority cant put a brake on things in any organisation.the company is private and they are entitled to let them go once they provide redundancy"

The redundancy was voluntary. they dont have to take it if they don't want to take it. the latvians are not taking up the €3.60 ph jobs. that is evidence enough that they would not agree to work for that rate.

ronbyrne2005

billy the squid wrote:

The reason it is illegal in this country is because it is considered exploitation. If it wasn't then we wouldnt have such an outcry over child labour in the third world. .

i was thinking of a hundred years ago when children routinely went up chimneys ,free schooling etc didnt exist and cleaning chimneys was a welcome alternative to the work house

billy the squid wrote:

The point is you claim that the ITWF are there to represent people when they feel they are being exploited. the link i posted proves that they are doing just that by supporting the SIPTU action and the day of protest. You still feel the need to piss and moan because the people you claim are there to protect seafarers are protecting seafarers..

and i said that they are hypocrites as their members work for such rates on other boats arounf the world!

billy the squid wrote:

so 70 isnt hundreds..

well as far i as am aware there are hundreds of eastern europeans ready to work on the ferries,if theres only 70 then irish ferries will have to raise the amount they are paying ,what i think is going on is that irish ferries are paying the agency seeking workers for them a set amount and the agency is then trying to hire at the lowest rate.

billy the squid wrote:

both ships and planes are capable of carrying people. this is where the unlevel playing field is..

shipping companies make the vast majority of their revenue from transport bulky goods not people so you are wrong,any revenue from transporting people is just incidental,i.e they have space to carry people on top of the cargo/vehicles

billy the squid wrote:

you claimed that the irish unions' sole purpose was to feather their nests
....and i proved you incorrect. now your backtracking. its gone from feathering their own nests to feathering the nests of their members. I didnt gain anything by foreign ships being impounded for poor conditions onboard."

i was speaking of the irish trade unions as a body i.e including their members

billy the squid wrote:

the linked article states otherwise. the Latvian recruitment agencies say that filing the positions will be impossible as there is better money in Germany.".....

we'll see,if they wont work for that rate then the company will have to raise the rate but i find it hard to beleive that germany is offering many jobs condsidering their economy is in bits due to the militant unions and overly burdensome labour laws

Hagar

I just knew there had to be a reason for the ravings... God bless the search engine....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054853764

ronbyrne2005

you think irish ferries situation is bad?wait till you see the next form of outsourcing in this link! we'll have cruise ships docked ten miles off ireland!


http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=10959

ronbyrne2005

Hagar wrote:

I just knew there had to be a reason for the ravings... God bless the search engine....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054853764

very good hagar,you went to the trouble of searching for my posts,why would you feel it neccessary to do this?? and do you beleive everything you read???

Hagar

I may be a bastard, but I'm a thorough bastard.

So I can't believe your posts then?
Which ones? Some? None? All?

ronbyrne2005

you'll beleive what you wanna beleive anyway

ronbyrne2005

given your extreme overreaction to my post of the character "1" ,wonder who has psychological problems