Gun collecting

chem

Hi all,

Im just wondering how many of you out there, would if you could, collect guns? If you would, what type and why?

No laws in this counrty apply to anyone who has an interest in collecting. Even if you want to collect deactivated firearms its hard to explain to your super why you want to collect so many. Its also not aloud to have a deactivated firearm that can not be licenced in a live form here. eg: anything full auto, belt fed etc.

I even see starting pistols are coming under the new CJB so when they are handed in in the gun amnisty it will look like there were tons of pistols on the streets, when they are all layed out on the table for the cameras!


Myself id like to collect all sorts of pistols, rifles and MG. Id have a room full of them if i could!

So whats your ideas on this?

P38Man

chem wrote:

Its also not aloud to have a deactivated firearm that can not be licenced in a live form here. eg: anything full auto, belt fed etc.

Are you sure that's the case? It's not that long ago I recall seeing Bren guns and MG42s for sale in the collectors militaria fair in Dublin.

chem

P38Man wrote:

Are you sure that's the case? It's not that long ago I recall seeing Bren guns and MG42s for sale in the collectors militaria fair in Dublin.

I rang the DOJ and was told that no permit/licence would be granted to take anythig into the country de-act, that could not be licenced here. The funny bit was when i was told that it would have to be sent for ballistic tests :rolleyes: to see if it was ever used in a crime:eek: best of luck to them if they can fire a bullet down a barrel that is slit and an iron rod welded into it

Ive seen them around myself alright, but they can be baught in the north now over the counter. So if you want to stick it in the boot and take it in, it can be done.

Its just with a de-act of any type. it has "component parts" eg:mag and so will land you with a large fine and criminal record if caught with it.

Every other country has some kind of allowence for collecting but here they are seen as just as bad as the live weapon :mad:

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=chem]I rang the DOJ and was told that no permit/licence would be granted to take anythig into the country de-act, that could not be licenced here. The funny bit was when i was told that it would have to be sent for ballistic tests :rolleyes: to see if it was ever used in a crime:eek: best of luck to them if they can fire a bullet down a barrel that is slit and an iron rod welded into it

Which just goes to show the DOJ somtimes hasnt a clue about what they are on about.They show that by saying a deactivated firearm must be ballistically tested.Now, they are also wrong in the fact you can get a liscense for a deact here,according to Garda ballistics section,Phoenix park,and it was brought in for folks that have still family keepsakes from the Rising,independance /civil war times.Also at the moment there is nothing to stop you applying for a Browning 50 Cal M2 liscense that is live firing.Good for you if you can get it of course.So it would then follow that you can apply for a deact liscense to keep the deact.Maybe DOJ means they wont grant a import liscense?Just the usual FUBAR situation here.

Ive seen them around myself alright, but they can be baught in the north now over the counter. So if you want to stick it in the boot and take it in, it can be done.

It's weird.I have a old pinfire revolver,that the Gaurds know about,yet they have never asked me for a liscense for it or to apply for it either.
Methinks it will come down to as well as to what kind of a person you are.Are you going to hang it on the wall,or you going to go waving it around down in the pub,or loaning it to the local post office blagger?

Its just with a de-act of any type. it has "component parts" eg:mag and so will land you with a large fine and criminal record if caught with it.

Thats too open a defination.Usually it has to be a "launching component"that is illegal to posses or the deact has to be unable to be reconverted to live fire with normal tools.IE drills ,files etc,as most households dont have lathes or milling machines.:D Thats why the old spec deacts were a problem.Too easily reconverted to live fire by underground gunsmiths.However if you can run a mill and lathe,I think you could build your own SMG no problem.Having "components" means diddly unless you can assemble them into somthing functioning.It would be quite an engineering feat to react with your hand drill and files a Bren gun EG,but maybe not a sten or MAC 10.In the US the BATF declared that having a STEN kit and the tubing in the same house was "intent to create a illegaL Smg".So I wouldnt want to have lets say here a new barrel,hammer,fire control parts,in the house,for a deact you might have.

Every other country has some kind of allowence for collecting but here they are seen as just as bad as the live weapon :madQUOTE]
Caused by ignorance and paranoia mostly.
A properly deact gun is no more than a high tech club in the end.But it is the usual "it might be used by criminals etc"BS excuse.This was the same excuse that prevented paintball being widely accepted here in the early 90s.The excuse was the IRA were going to use it for training!!!!:mad: Sure...they will train with paint pistols when they could train for free in Libya or the US???Gimme a break!!! Fact is it is another kind of "it's illegal here....but we wont bother you if you dont do anything stupid with it."Irish type scenario.
It also brings up the question do weapons in Irish museums,etc require a liscense as they are deacted as well?What is the story here then with reenactors of all types?
If I could collect live it would be semi auto military weapons.Ditto for deacts as well.If it was only on a historical basis,Axis and Allied,Korea and Vietnam.

Sparks

chem wrote:

I even see starting pistols are coming under the new CJB so when they are handed in in the gun amnisty it will look like there were tons of pistols on the streets, when they are all layed out on the table for the cameras!

Technically, they're already under the Firearms Act chem, you need a licence for one...

civdef

Technically, they're already under the Firearms Act chem, you need a licence for one...

Can you show the bit of the act that refers to blank firers Sparks (hint: you'll be looking for a while ).

jaycee

I think it's the blank cartridges you need the permit for , not the blank firer itself.

Sparks

civdef wrote:

Can you show the bit of the act that refers to blank firers Sparks (hint: you'll be looking for a while ).

Not off the top of my head Civ, but I can show you what the DoJ think of it:
http://www.justice.ie/80256E01003A21A5/vWeb/pcJUSQ5YBJWM-en

Starting pistols
Applications for a firearms certificate for a starting pistol, (used to signal the start of an athletic event) can be obtained from the Superintendent of your police district through your local Garda Station. You will be required to complete an application form in the presence of the Garda on duty who will forward your application to the Superintendent and make recommendations on your application. The Superintendent will grant or refuse your application. Starting pistols do not carry ammunition and there is no charge for this licence.

civdef

There is provision in the Firearms Acts for a Superintendent (introduced by Section 15 of the 1964 Act) to issue an authorisation to hold a firearm and blank ammunition for the purposes of starting athletic races.

This would mean possessing a functional firearm (as defined by the Firearms Acts) but only blank ammunition for it. Purpose designed "blank-firer" guns aren't firearms.

"firearm" means a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet, or other missile can be discharge;

jaycee

for the purposes of starting athletic races.

Or training dogs..!

civdef

Training dogs isn't in any of the Firearms Acts.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

chem wrote:

Hi all,
Its also not aloud to have a deactivated firearm that can not be licenced in a live form here. eg: anything full auto, belt fed etc.
So whats your ideas on this?

I dopn't think that's the case mate. I know someone with a bren gun, he also has another military weapon that can't be lcenced here...

Clare gunner

Intresting the defination of a firearm here in law.So if a firearm has been deactivated that it cannot discharge any missile etc.Is it then perse a firearm anymore???
Again the deact liscensing is the same as a starter pistol as well.I feel they are doing this just to keep tabs on who owns what?

chem

I dopn't think that's the case mate. I know someone with a bren gun, he also has another military weapon that can't be lcenced here...

They can be got but not over the counter in any gun shop. You also need a permit/licence from your local super for it:

Authorisation to district hold defective firearm without firearm certificate. 6.—(1) The superintendent of the Garda Síochána of a district may grant an authorisation in writing to a person resident in the district not being a person disentitled under the Firearms Acts, 1925 to 1990 to hold a firearm certificate, to have in his possession, without a firearm certificate, a firearm where he is satisfied that the firearm would not be a firearm but for section 4 (1) (f) and that the person has a good reason for wishing to keep it and may be permitted to do so without danger to the public safety or the peace.

(2) The superintendent of the district where the holder of an authorisation under this section resides may, at any time, attach to the authorisation any conditions, whether as regards safe custody or otherwise, which he considers necessary and may at any time revoke the authorisation.

Not off the top of my head Civ, but I can show you what the DoJ think of it:

No where are blank fire pistols mentioned in the law. And i dont think the DOJ view on them would hold much ground if challanged in a court room, as it is not the word of law. Its much like the whole gun safe arguement. Gardi just making the law up as they go along.

Thats too open a defination.Usually it has to be a "launching component"that is illegal to posses

I agree its left to open a defination. But its just left that way as a "catch all" law. If they dont know enough about it just leave it open so almost anything will fall into it. This is the only mention or specific "component parts":

( f ) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or of causing a shock or other disablement (as the case may be);
( g ) save where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, for the purposes of this definition, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts as aforesaid.
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e), and
(ii) a silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e).

None of these have anything to do with the function of any gun!

Sparks

And i dont think the DOJ view on them would hold much ground if challanged in a court room, as it is not the word of law. Its much like the whole gun safe arguement. Gardi just making the law up as they go along.

Indeed. And just like the gun safe argument, they're drafting the law as they go along. Thing is, it really is the law when they do it. The "DoJ View" tends to become the "Firearms Act" if you get overly militant with them.

Point being, if they say you need a licence, you're pretty much going to need a licence, at least in the long term view. Butting heads with the Gardai, or trying to use the judicial branch to beat the executive branch with, well, they're not strategies that will work in the long term.

None of these have anything to do with the function of any gun!

Foregoing paragraphs chem. The last two are the only ones that aren't required for a firearm to operate, and they're thrown in for the convienence of the Gardai, not us.

jaycee

Was this ever repealed ...?

Extension of sections 23 and 28 of Larceny Act, 1916. 25.—(1) In sections 23 and 28 of the Larceny Act, 1916, "offensive weapon" shall include a firearm that is not loaded and an imitation firearm.
(2) In this section and the next two sections "imitation firearm" means anything which is not a firearm but has the appearance of being a firearm.