OSI Trail Master

Kingkong

Hey

OSI (Ordnance Survey Ireland) released a mapping software recently. From what i heard of it is aimed at hillwalkers etc...

It sounds pretty advanced piece of kit with of course gps functions. Its costs 99 euro per region.

If anyone has tried it let me know what u taught of it.

I wonder if there is trail version.

BeardyGit

GPS handhelds

I don't think you'll find many in your poll who'll opt for using a GPS instead of a Map & Compass. Anyone who uses GPS as their primary navigation tool should be stripped bollock naked and left for dead on a col somewhere up the back of lug on a cold winters night.

hmmm

The sensible answer is "both". GPS for location & grid reference, compass and map for bearing.

scout

GPS handhelds

Gil_Dub wrote:

I don't think you'll find many in your poll who'll opt for using a GPS instead of a Map & Compass. Anyone who uses GPS as their primary navigation tool should be stripped bollock naked and left for dead on a col somewhere up the back of lug on a cold winters night.

bit on the harsh side but good point

scout

GPS handhelds

As you have probibly gathered i am a scout well leader does anyone think that trail master should be cheaper to clubs and or orgs. osi in england can sell for free why is it so expensive here?????????

r1g2b3

I primarily use GPS in tandem with my 1:50,000 Discovery Series OSI map. My Silva compass stays in my pack as a backup.

So... so it's my primary use of nav. Can you explain your problem with this?

BeardyGit

GPS handhelds

scout wrote:

As you have probibly gathered i am a scout well leader does anyone think that trail master should be cheaper to clubs and or orgs. osi in england can sell for free why is it so expensive here?????????

I don't think it's terribly expensive to be honest - Particularly for a club/group. Your scout group probably has 20-30 members plus a handful of leaders. €3 each and you have yourself a copy to use planning routes and printing maps etc.

If you're buying it on your own I'd argue that it's still quite affordable. I've 10 or 12 "weather/water-proofed" Discovery maps at home - Total cost around €160. If I was starting from scratch today - I could save myself the price of a laminator, paper and supplies to go with a copy of Trailmaster.

r1g2b3 wrote:

I primarily use GPS in tandem with my 1:50,000 Discovery Series OSI map. My Silva compass stays in my pack as a backup.

So... so it's my primary use of nav. Can you explain your problem with this?

Everyone should carry and use a printed map and a compass - If they know how to use them it's the most practical way to keep yourself on track, even in poor conditions especially when *complemented* by a GPS. What I have a problem with is the misconception that a GPS alone will lead you out of trouble in the absence of a map and compass.

I would have to question why you wouldn't just use your map and compass, using the GPS as a supplemental tool to sanity check your traditional navigation skills every so often if you're not so sure? Practice makes perfect and unless you're using your compass regularly, will you remember how to use it correctly when the need arises? I've seen quite a few people I know who were once excellent navigators struggle with their field/ranger compass following a year or so using a GPS as their primary navigational aid. This isn't personal - I don't know you or your skill level. It's a theoretical discussion with a twist of personal experience I guess.

Alun

I have to say that I also use my GPS as my "primary" (but not "sole") navigation aid these days, although after over 30 years of using a map and compass, both in hillwalking and (in my youth!) competitive orienteering, I'm not going to forget how to use them just like that I think that part of the problem is that many people learn their navigation skills in a purely mechanical way without any real understanding of the principles involved. If you don't have a good grasp of the basics, you'll forget them pretty quickly after a period of non-use, for sure.

For example, I know many people who have passed their MS assessment, who, although they know the mechanics of using a compass, i.e. they've somehow memorized the steps taught to them by their instructors to take a bearing from two points on a map and at least start to follow it, have very little idea of what they're actually doing, or why. I've seen people, for example, take a bearing, start to follow it for a few metres over peat hags and then put it in their pockets only to take it out again 15 minutes later, after wandering (according to my GPS!) several degrees of course, and then start following it again as if the compass had somehow magically adjusted itself to compensate. Also people who when they walk in, say, Connemara or the UK, instead of Wicklow, stubbornly stick to the magnetc deviation they use at home because "that's what the instructor told them". Any discussion of magnetic deviation, the fact that it's different in different places and actually changes over time, or the difference between grid and true north usually goes straight over their heads.

To get proper use of a GPS you need to have a good grounding in basic navigation. It's a bit of a waste of money to have one just to take out of your pocket when you get a bit lost to get a grid reference IMHO, although several people I walk with do exactly that. If anything I'd say that's worse ... a bit like the arguments some people have against carrying mobile phones in the hills, in as much as it gives a false sense of security, i.e. "I know my navigation is crap, but if I do screw up and get lost I can always get out my GPS and find out where I am".

Just my €0.02 worth.

BeardyGit

GPS handhelds

Hi Alun,

I'll agree with what you're saying for the most part. Many of the problems as I see them are related to how much experience one has gained while navigating in unfamiliar territory under unfavourable conditions and how regularly you dust off the compass and polish up your skills.

If you've used a compass for many years you are unlikely to forget how to use it overnight. But substitute said compass for a couple of years with a GPS and a spare set of batteries everytime you go out walking and you're asking for trouble IMHO. The time to blow away the cobwebs on your magnetic navigation skills is not when you're out on the hills and realise you've left your spares at home or dropped the GPS on the way.

If someone wants to use a GPS as their primary aid then I've no objection - Just as long as they pay attention to their 'fail-safe' and carry a compass - The use of which should be second nature in any challeging circumstances. I suppose a simple method to ensure you're up to speed is to sit down with your compass to plot a routecard once in a while and earnestly use your compass for navigation for say one in every four walks.

Now I'm not some form of super-navigator. But I'm competent and confident enough to navigate by night using a compass when the situation calls for such an approach. Pace counting and timing are important aspects to night and poor visibility navigation. Sadly, these are skills which even competent and thoughful use of a GPS will never teach you when you've to turn back to your compass for guidance.

BTW - Just so you all know - I own 2 GPS receivers, both of which are excellent devices for what they are. I'm not anti-GPS, just against the approach too many take when they introduce technology into situations where they need to be able to rely fully on their own capabilities before they turn to the 'helper'.

Gil

Alun

I think we're actually agreeing with each other here. What I'm seeing more and more often is people in our walking group who have been given GPS's as Xmas pressies by well-meaning spouses as some kind of "magic bullet" to get them out of trouble in case of emergency. Like carrying a mobile phone, or some would say having myriads of safety equipment like ABS in modern cars, it can lead people into a false sense of security and prompt them sometimes to take unnecessary risks which they would not have otherwise taken, safe in the mistaken knowledge that the technology will get them out of trouble.

Anyway getting back on topic, I've got OSi Trailmaster East and to be honest I've not used it once since I installed it. It's painfully slow and clunky and doesn't appear to have been designed for the outdoor user at all, despite OSi's claims. I much prefer OziExplorer and my digitized Harvey's Wicklow map, thank you.

Marshal

I've had a GPS for a long time (7 years) and only every used it twice. Once to ensure the correct starting point for a descent with a group of kids. And once, when abroad and I couldn't buy a map of the mountain we were on. So I just turned on the tracking facility in case the weather turned (a belt and braces approach). More than a compass, people really need to be able to read and use a map correctly (along with the topography). then a compass and only then resort to a GPS.
But to get back to the original point - has anybody any other experiences with Trailmaster? I'd be looking at it for printing custom maps for a route, especially when you're trying to teach a group navigation. If everybody could have a map and mark it as they liked it would be very useful.

neilled

GPS handhelds

scout wrote:

As you have probibly gathered i am a scout well leader does anyone think that trail master should be cheaper to clubs and or orgs. osi in england can sell for free why is it so expensive here?????????

Because its Ireland!!!!! Smaller market etc etc. Just to add something - there isn't a huge mark up on GPS/Mapping software, pricing is pretty much controlled by the OSI or OSUK in either case.

flagpole

ive been using osi trailmaster since it first came out. its a good piece of software and met most of my expectations. there are a few bugs and these will be addressed in the next week or so , theres a patch coming out (if it hasnt already).
the ability to print out maps is a very handy feature, however one of the bugs discovered was the absence of the magnetic variation anywhere on the map. this has been reported to the osi.

its works very well with gps and takes a lot of pain out of planning routes and downloading them to your gps unit.in fact i was impressed with how accurate the waypoints actually were.

the ability to see the intended route in 3d (sort of a 'flyover') is another plus in my view.

another downside however is the 'routecard' that can be printed is all be useless for hill walking purposes, i believe this will be addressed in the upcoming patch.

all in all a good product, worth the money when you consider what you are getting.

flywheel

GPS handhelds

anyone used it with a Pocket PC PDA, been asking around and haven't found anyone who has exported the data to a PDA (just a GPS so far)?

Alun

DubWireless wrote:

anyone used it with a Pocket PC PDA, been asking around and haven't found anyone who has exported the data to a PDA (just a GPS so far)?

I've installed it onto my rather ancient Dell Axim X5 and it does a very good imitation of a glacier moving through a sea of treacle if you get my drift. Mind you the the PC version isn't exactly "snappy" either.

flywheel

GPS handhelds

thanks for the feedback... your Axim running Pocket PC 2002 (or upgraded to Pocket PC 2003)?

Alun

DubWireless wrote:

thanks for the feedback... your Axim running Pocket PC 2002 (or upgraded to Pocket PC 2003)?

PPC 2003.

Alun

DubWireless wrote:

anyone used it with a Pocket PC PDA, been asking around and haven't found anyone who has exported the data to a PDA (just a GPS so far)?

Just an update on this ... there's a patch available on the OSi Trailmaster support website that changes something in the way maps are generated for use on the PDA version. It seems to have speeded up the application quite a bit, so my previous comments about speed, or rather the lack of it, are less valid. It's still quite slow, but useable.

flywheel

GPS handhelds

Thanks Alun. Sounds good, think I'll pick up Trailmaster tomorrow.

Was checking out some protection for the PDA while out hiking... I'm looking at an Otter Box or an Aquapac cover at the moment.

The Otter Box is pretty good, was at an event where they had a stand and they were kicking encased PDAs around and dunking them in tanks of water! Although the Aqupapac looks a bit less expensive (and lighter) although not as protected...

Alun

There's still another problem with it, in that the position marker on the PDA screen is pretty difficult to see against the map background. I've raised it as a problem, but I don't know if they're going to do anything about it.

Just to add also that as a navigation aid it isn't actually that useful. You can see your current position on the map, and it will display any waypoints and trails (their term for tracks or routes) on that map, but that's it. It doesn't (as far as I can see) record tracks, allow you to set waypoints in the field, or allow you to navigate to a waypoint for example. A normal Garmin or Magellan outdoor GPS will be much more useful than this for navigation purposes.

flywheel

GPS handhelds

it's more for me to see what it can do / if it offers any help on a hike or planning one - i'll be sticking with the map and compass for the time being to navigate