Cuba/CAstro

wiseones2cents

Boredinwork wrote:

There is plenty right and wrong with cuba like any other country, I spent 3 weeks traveling around it last year, thought it was a amazing county.
Stayed in Cuba's houses and drank with them and like any country meet some great people and also some chancers!!!!

One thing I will say about Castro and Gervera the interest lay with the people collectively. Gervera while he was a murderer and killer may innocent people always stuck with his socialist beliefs. He upped and left his family to fight in the Congo, and Bolivia for what he believed in and it eventually cost him his life. He could have stayed in Cuba and lived the life of a king where he was worshipped. If you look at the rest of south America is Cuba any worse of that capitalist Peru, Brazil, Mexico. They have massive crime, poverty and repression. There is almost zero crime in Cuba, while there is poverty, nobody is starving. Currently most of Cuba’s problems are caused by the US embargo which is way outdated. What possible treat could Cuba cause to the states. Yea Fidel should open up his borders to more trade and tourism, and agree to a lifting of the embargo with the US. But he is an old man stuck in his ways. Change will only come when he dies. Don’t forget Spain was lead by a dictator until the 70’s that’s not that long ago. The talk in Cuba anyway is that Raul will succeed him and create a more open economy. While I’m not trying to defend Castro I’m just trying to portray some of the good thing about Cuba because of capitalism.

I’ll leave ye with one recent example that shows how socialist Cuba served its people better that capitalist America. During the recent hurricane season many of the hurricanes that affect the US also hit Cuba. The worse was probably Hurricane Katrina which caused looting, anarchy and devastation to the city of New Orleans. A few thousand people were killed and the American government ignored many of its poorest citizens (Mainly black) until there was outcry in the country. Cuba on the other hand pre-empted the effect of the hurricane evacuated thousands of it people and there was very little loss of life. Now tell me which government better served there people in this case??

I'm sure you guys have heard how Foreign Capitalist corporations have suppressed the locals in Capitalist South America by hiring thugs to silence dissenters that complained of slave wages and inhumane working conditions.

We've seen what Capitalism did to Argentina. Thanks to the IMF.

How about dirt poor Brazil. Where child prostitution runs wild, with an international clientel...I think they have something like 10 million homeless children? Capitalism at its finest(Note sarcasm)

I think its time South America gave America the Big Boot.The Only thing actually making money in South America is Tourism(controlled by America) and the cocaine trade. Mostly run by the CIA and American puppet leaders.

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

The reason that Cuba could evacuate its citizens before the hurricanes and the US couldnt is because the US is a federalist system. Would people please get this- the national government does not have the legal right to force people out of their homes. That is why they couldnt act. The governer of Lousiana should have signed over permission to the federal government, but she didnt because shes an idiot. Castro on the other hand has unlimited rights on what he can do to his people.[A few thousand were not killed.That number is wrong. In fact most of what you said about Katrina was wrong]

Its not only the fact that Castro evacuated his people. The fact that he actually had a plan and was preparred. America was NOT preparred. It was almost a week later and they were still idle. They couldn't figure out how to get to the victims. They were told that New Orleans would be a fish bowl. Why weren't they better prepared? Why Weren't ships, Helicopters on stand by?That is why Castro served his people better. Now was it neglect on America's part?Since they knew the possible outcome I'd say yes. many are still waiting for aid 4 months later.

Yeah yeah. I know all about the myths of streets paved with gold, blah blah, being born to immigrants myself. You have all these fantasies of what life is like in America. Its funny. Slums in miami. I guess you've watched Scarface too many times. Im very close to calling you a racist, but I wont.

Actually I have heard the same things about Miami. Alot of it is slums and riddled with Crime. When I went to Florida, they told me go anywhere but Miami or I'll get my car stolen.

Yes its true. Its the US which makes it impossible for Americans to visit Cuba. Cuba doesnt have a problem with US visitors because it needs the dollars. Funny that isnt it? This is living proof of what happens to communist countries when there is no capitalist money to be spread around.

Is it capitalist money or money(Business) in general they need? I bet If Cuba was next to Russia and had the Cuban Climate it would be raking in the cash. So your notion that it needs capitalist money is absurd.

What threat can Cuba cause the US? Probably none anymore. But they did face nuclear weapons at the US and you have to take historical memory into account when you look at relationships. And the very potent Cuban lobby which is determined not to give any money to Castro's regime is also behind it.

Russia and China both had rocky relationships with the USA and are currently doing business. Another ridiculous argument.Cuban lobby? I'm sure they would like nothing more than to resume their crooked activities in Cuba. The rest Are American puppets.

Yeah, the Chavez coup. America was up to their necks in it. Uh huh.

When thier is a coup any where in the world. America is somehow involved. They like to put thier hands in everyones pockets.

Any Cuban who fled Cuba in the 60s or 70s will tell you: It was join the communist party or die.

I think this is a slight exageration. Since many people cheered Castro as a hero. Except the ones living the high life off the American establishments.
If they want to point a finger to any problems they have today? They can point it at imperial dictating America.

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

I dont get it. If capitalism is failing so badly then who would have the money to trade with Cuba? You are confusing me.

Well out of 300 million people there must be a few million that have cash.:rolleyes: Its mostly the wealthy(about 25%),teens with decent jobs that have no expenses or HEALTHY retirees that travel in America.
Most are hurting and in debt.

He had the support of the people because he lied to them. They didnt want Americas hands all over the island. But they didnt want communism either.

What other alternative did he have? The Americans would have assassinated him any other way. He had the support of the people because he lied to them? You must have Castro confused with bush and the Iraqi war.:D

America doesnt trade with Cuba because of historical memory and the Cuban political lobby. We all know it has nothing to do with communism. America does huge trade with China.

Historical memory?:rolleyes: Now i've heard it all. Its because Imperial America wants its claws back in the Island.

Yeah the CIA planned and supplied the invasion. Who ran the CIA? Kennedy and McNamara.

Do you think Kennedy ran the CIA? Who ran the Mob that also sent hit men
to Cuba? Kennedy?

So your basically saying that America is what put Castro into power? Then you should be loving America.

How old are you exactly?:rolleyes: I am basically sdaying that America is the source of Cuba's problems, not Castro.As you can see, I am disgusted with America and would not step foot there if they offered me a Million dollars.

homeOwner

wiseones2cents wrote:

The Only reason Castro over threw Batista in the very first place is American Coruption. And the Only reason Castro has a tight grip on Cuba is Corupting American Influence. So America is the SOLE Cause of All of Cuba's Problems.

The reason castro over threw batista was to gain power. he did it on a platform of getting rid of a puppet regeime which he genuinely opposed.

The reason Castro has a tight grip on Cuba is because he is a dictator who uses his army against the people.

Absolving Castro of any wrong doing in contributing to cuba's problems, which is what you are effectivly saying, is very worrying. Your moral compass seems to be skewed.

wiseones2cents

homeOwner wrote:

The reason castro over threw batista was to gain power. he did it on a platform of getting rid of a puppet regeime which he genuinely opposed.

Someone has to lead a rebellion. The reason there was support to over throw
Batista is evidence he wasn't the only one that wanted corupt Batista overthrown.

The reason Castro has a tight grip on Cuba is because he is a dictator who uses his army against the people.

No. To purge corupt American influence that was heavily entrenched in Cuba.

absolving Castro of any wrong doing in contributing to cuba's problems, which is what you are effectivly saying, is very worrying. Your moral compass seems to be skewed.

Or is your moral compass, manipulated by mis-information? It is Obvious that America is the SOURCE of Cuba's woes. America coruptted Cuba, America imposed Sanctions on Cuba for taking their Island back. Those are the undeniable facts.

lazydaisy

No one is arguing that that they didnt want Batista out.

So, you're saying that if American tourism was restored Cuba would prosper? Isnt that what they had pre-Castro? You dont seem too impressed with that either.

You wouldnt step foot in American for a million dollars. So how much did they give you to go to Florida? You should have gone to Miami and talked to some Cubans while you were there.

Dont question me about my age. Do you really want to go down the road of personal insults?

American Imperialism. Do you mean the governement or private enterprise? US companies cant wait for Cuba to open up and its the US govt who isnt letting that happen. So what is it that you want?

You should go to your local and order a Cuba Libere, or a rum and coke, and chill out, that is if you're old enough to drink.

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

No one is arguing that that they didnt want Batista out.

So, you're saying that if American tourism was restored Cuba would prosper? Isnt that what they had pre-Castro? You dont seem too impressed with that either.

Yes that Is what I am saying. I'm saying that the American Government does not have any legitimate excuses to keep sanctions on Cuba.

What they had pre-castro Cuba, was Americans profitting from Cuba, not Cubans. As is the case through out South America.

You wouldnt step foot in American for a million dollars. So how much did they give you to go to Florida? You should have gone to Miami and talked to some Cubans while you were there.

Florida was past tense. I dont have to talk to biased Americanized Cubans to know the Situation in Cuba.

Dont question me about my age. Do you really want to go down the road of personal insults?

Not an Insult. Judging by your statement I would estimate that you are very young.

American Imperialism. Do you mean the governement or private enterprise? US companies cant wait for Cuba to open up and its the US govt who isnt letting that happen. So what is it that you want?

Is there a difference today? Is the US gov not letting American corporations into Cuba or is it Castro? I want America to lift unjustifiable sanctions against Cuba.

You should go to your local and order a Cuba Libere, or a rum and coke, and chill out, that is if you're old enough to drink.

I am old enough to drink but only drink a glass of wine on occasion. I am against hard alcohol.

lazydaisy

I really am not understanding you. You want the embargo lifted. You also dont see a difference between the US govt and the US private sector and also see it as an imperial power. The embargo is what is keeping the private sector out of Cuba so its also what is keeping the US govt out of Cuba, so the US is essentially keeping itself out of Cuba? This is imperialism? Am I missing something? And if the private sector is american imperial claws then wouldnt you want to preserve the embargo in that it keeps america out. I know its definitely the US. It may be Castro also but we'll never know as long as the embargo is in place.

Lift the embargo America will still profit. Capitalism is not a charity as you know.

wiseones2cents

lazydaisy wrote:

I really am not understanding you. You want the embargo lifted. You also dont see a difference between the US govt and the US private sector and also see it as an imperial power. The embargo is what is keeping the private sector out of Cuba so its also what is keeping the US govt out of Cuba, so the US is essentially keeping itself out of Cuba? This is imperialism? Am I missing something? And if the private sector is american imperial claws then wouldnt you want to preserve the embargo in that it keeps america out. I know its definitely the US. It may be Castro also but we'll never know as long as the embargo is in place.

Lift the embargo America will still profit. Capitalism is not a charity as you know.

Since the Private sector are the top camapign financers of all politicians, it is safe to say that the politicians serve the private sectors that financed His/Her way to the top and not the public.

Yes you are missing alot.
The Embargo is keeping the Private sector out? Or Is castro? Castro confiscated all the American private sector in Cuba remember? Cuba does not want the American private sector there. All it wants is American Tourists and trade. Though the Americans want to control the Island again and Castro wont let them. So yes, the Embargo is about Imperialism. America wants to control Cuba.

America will profit but so will the Cuban government. America wants ALL the profit. Cubans Are not asking for Charity. They are asking not to be isolated.

Who pays the most for this Embargo? Castro or the Cuban Citizens that suffer? Who paid the most for the Sanctions on Iraq? Saddam or the close to a million Iraqi kids they starved?