Are Arsenal going to struggle longterm?

Steve_o

Are arsenal entering a longterm slide or just a rough patch? Its hard to know but definitely the loss of Vieira isn't helping!!

Lemlin

They're still the second bets team in the Premiership IMO. Vieira was a big loss but young players like Fabregas and Flamini are coming of age and they've still got the likes of Van Persie and Senderos who are yet to show their true potential.

Add into that mix experienced players like Henry and Ljunberg, and Arsenal are still a force to be reckoned with.

I still think Wenger's next transfer move should be Shay Given though.

Steve_o

Interesting!!! Shay Given would be a great buy for arsenal, Jens Lehmann is a little shaky at times!!

Arsenals form of late hasn't been great though!! Bolton beat them in every way....that's not a good thing!!

The Rooster

IMO, taking keeper, defence, midfield - Liverpool are clearly the second best team in the Premiership at the moment. However when you consider the talent both Arsenal and ManU have up front, it brings them right up to the level of Liverpool. I'd expect to see very little between those 3 for the rest of the season - albeit January comings/goings and injuries could change that.

Lemlin

Steve_o wrote:

Interesting!!! Shay Given would be a great buy for arsenal, Jens Lehmann is a little shaky at times!!

Arsenals form of late hasn't been great though!! Bolton beat them in every way....that's not a good thing!!

I wouldn't get overly worried about losing to Bolton just yet. They are a tough team to play. And don't forget Man Utd and Liverpool have both lost games to 'lesser' teams like Blackburn and Fulham this season.

The only difference with the PL now is that Chelsea don't look like slipping up at all. Bar their loss to United, they've been spectacular.

Big Nelly

The Rooster wrote:

IMO, taking keeper, defence, midfield - Liverpool are clearly the second best team in the Premiership at the moment. However when you consider the talent both Arsenal and ManU have up front, it brings them right up to the level of Liverpool. I'd expect to see very little between those 3 for the rest of the season - albeit January comings/goings and injuries could change that.

Now you have to be joking? Liverpool? no chance. They are improving but they are nowhere near 2nd best. I think 4th this season and let Bene continue his work to rid the clubs of GH players and they may start to move back up to closer to 3rd or 4th. Remember they where terrible up to a few weeks ago and have put a little run together but nothing any of the top teams in PL could. I also iinclude Boro, and so on in that group

Would say Arsenal(kills me to say it) are a better team than Utd at the minute. They have a better squad. Some great players coming through, Fab, Flamini and they still have Hleb to coem back. Also they are playing with no left back at the moment and that donkey Cygan on. They need a goalie and a central defender. Thats about it. Maybe a striker but Van Persie is starting to fill that role. And if Reyes gets his form back then sorted

Utd need alot of work. Enought thread on this already!

Steve_o

Liverpool and Man Utd are both better than Arsenal but then again you're never sure with them!! Henry is alwys good for a goal!!

gandalf

I am not that worried at all as an Arsenal fan. This season is a rebuilding one as far as I am concerned. Van Persie is coming of age sooner than I expected, Hleb is a good signing, with Cesc I have to remind myself of his age constantly, Reyes can blow hot and cold. The defense is ok apart from Cygan who should be shot asap !! The Goalie situation is one that I think should be looked at and I would be delighted if Given signed for Arsenal.

There are also a good crop of youngsters on the way up like Lupoli.

As for Vieria he is a loss but as I have said in earlier posts be wasn't at his best last season and I think they were right to sell him (but I disagreed with the low price for him!).

The Muppet

Arsenal are in serious trouble. They rely too much on Henry and when he moves on they will be in even deeper trouble. Roll on the summer.

Lemlin

The Muppet wrote:

Arsenal are in serious trouble. They rely too much on Henry and when he moves on they will be in even deeper trouble. Roll on the summer.

I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. I can't see Henry leaving Arsenal in the Summer. He knows the potential of this team.

mchurl

gandalf wrote:

There are also a good crop of youngsters on the way up like Lupoli.

QUOTE]

will Lupoli be given a fair chance at arsenal? I dont think that they have anything too much to worry about. They have quality players in the likes of cesc and rvp who are still young and will turn into great players. Then throw the likes of thierry henry and Ashley Cole into the mix and you really have a good side. I agree that they need a new keeper though and also they should maybe have a look at a right back. Their squad could maybe do with improving as well.

As for liverpool being the 2nd best, they are on a good run at the minute but i dont think they are the second best. I fell that both utd and arseanl are still ahead of them but that liverpool are catching up and fast

Royale with Cheese

As an Arsenal fan I'm really not worried. The team were putting together an excellent run before the loss to Bolton. Sh*t happens. Had we scraped a draw with Bolton this thread wouldn't be here. This is a season of rebuilding. I still fancy us to finish second this year. United have shown in the champions league just how good they are these days so I really can't see the argument that they're a better team than Arsenal. People are reading too much into the league table as it is... like Liverpool fans stating their team are now second best. Wait until the end of the season to make those kind of comments, not 1 week after you go second in the premiership for the first time in god knows how long.

Rollo Tamasi

i would like to see Wenger make a central midfield signing in Jan. Hopefully he could tempt Maniche away from Moscow, he is wasted in the Russian league and would be well suited to the PL. I don't think Gilberto Silva has what it takes tbh, he doesn't have much of a pressence in central midfield. A central midfielder who really impressed me last night was Petit, he was everywhere on the pitch, he really showed up the ManU midfield.

Left midfield is also a postion where Wenger will need to invest, Pires is probably in his last season as a first team regualar...he may even move on in the summer. Stuart Downing was a transfer target last season, i wonder will Wenger make an approach for him eventually?

Royale with Cheese

I think Hleb has been signed as Pires' replacement, and I definitely think he's up to the job. Yes Maniche would be great to see in January. Gilberto has been terrible this season, used to think he was great but it was Vieira making him look good all along. Also about the goalkeeping situation... I don't think there is one. I think Lehmann has been very good this season and there are other areas of the pitch which need more investment than the Goalkeeper.

Steve_o

Lemlin wrote:

I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. I can't see Henry leaving Arsenal in the Summer. He knows the potential of this team.

I agree...I can't see Henry leaving just yet!!

tred

The Muppet wrote:

Arsenal are in serious trouble. They rely too much on Henry and when he moves on they will be in even deeper trouble. Roll on the summer.

muppett...dont be daft. Folks,I think Arsenals problem this season, is there missing Viera. I am sorry to say it, and we must move on but they have not replaced him. Viera gave so much cover to the back it was hard to believe. I think lehmann has being solid this season, compared to start of last but hes getting old. Well wenger buy a keeper that is less than 6.1 i dont think so, so that rules out lehmann. Watch out for a move for the lyon keeper during the summer. I really think if they can find some player to slot in beside Cesc a tough taclking no nonsense player, theyll make strides. Anyone on this thread who think liverpool are better than united or Arsenal is daft. All ill say about liverpool is Traore and no striker worth tuppence, compared to Henry van persie, rooney and RVN. And it kills me to even say united are better than liverpool. Pool are playing well at the moment. But so are bolton. And so are Man City......

tred

Royale with Cheese wrote:

I think Hleb has been signed as Pires' replacement, and I definitely think he's up to the job. Yes Maniche would be great to see in January. Gilberto has been terrible this season, used to think he was great but it was Vieira making him look good all along. Also about the goalkeeping situation... I don't think there is one. I think Lehmann has been very good this season and there are other areas of the pitch which need more investment than the Goalkeeper.

i agree totally. and i am not sure on maniche. how is he playing over in Russia?

Steve_o

I think he's doing well!! He'd be a good signing IMO!!

Roddy23

My biggest worry at the moment about Arsenal would have to be the form of Sol Campbell. Maybe this has something to do with the hole in the middle of the park in front of him. It is a great shame we didnt get Baptista, maybe we will be in for him again, have heard that there could be a possible swap involving Cole and himself this would be interesting to say the least. As for now, no I amn't too worried. In Wenger we have the miracle man. Wenger knows the limitations of this team and how we can improve (get rid of Cygan). Lehmann is a very good shot stopper, can be dodge on crosses, but then again most keepers these days are. For the back four we have four very good young players who will improve even more over the next few years: Senderos, Toure, Eboue and Clichy. Up front we have some of the best young players coming through: Lupoli, Quincy, Bendtner, van Persie and Reyes. In midfield we could do with more depth.
So all in all I don't think we are a team that will struggle, we do need some investment in one or two areas but, new investment will provide even more competition for places. Theres seem to be a lack of hunger in one or two player's at the moment, and buying one or two players will help address this.

elbow316

Arsenal are in serious trouble. They rely too much on Henry and when he moves on they will be in even deeper trouble. Roll on the summer.

Sounds like the clutching at straws by someone whose own team is in crisis at the moment

Arsenal have the best crop of young players around at the moment, along with the finances to bring in a number of "big" experienced players - as soon as Arsene gets around to it

p.pete

Big Nelly wrote:

Now you have to be joking? Liverpool? no chance. They are improving but they are nowhere near 2nd best.

Royale with Cheese wrote:

People are reading too much into the league table as it is... like Liverpool fans stating their team are now second best.

I think ye have misread The Rooster's post. He said taking keeper, defence and midfield Liverpool are the 2nd best team. Which is to say if football didn't necesitate an attack line Liverpool would be 2nd (either now or at the end of the season). Clearly you need an attack and clearly Liverpool don't have one unfortunately.

As is I'd say Arsenal are in a much better position then Liverpool at the moment, both are into the next round of the CL which is great but I think Arsenal have a slightly better crop of youngsters. Their defence is missing a few players at the moment but it's quite strong and with a better keeper they'd be solid.

Royale with Cheese

p.pete wrote:

I think ye have misread The Rooster's post. He said taking keeper, defence and midfield Liverpool are the 2nd best team. Which is to say if football didn't necesitate an attack line Liverpool would be 2nd (either now or at the end of the season). Clearly you need an attack and clearly Liverpool don't have one unfortunately.

As is I'd say Arsenal are in a much better position then Liverpool at the moment, both are into the next round of the CL which is great but I think Arsenal have a slightly better crop of youngsters. Their defence is missing a few players at the moment but it's quite strong and with a better keeper they'd be solid.

He stated that considering the talent both teams have up front it would bring them up to the level of Liverpool. Oh I'm so glad Arsenal can mentioned in the same breath as the mighty Liverpool:rolleyes: Liverpool have no strikers whatsoever. I don't see this run continuing forever.

Ok sorry I know I'm at fault as well but let's not have this thread descend into a discussion about Liverpool.

Pepe LeFrits

Arsenal are sorted for the long-term, it is in the short-term where they are and will probably continue to struggle for a while.

Henry will be a massive loss if he leaves next year, but Arsenal have had great teams before Henry and they will have great teams after him. Out went Wright, in came Anelka. Out went Anelka, in came Henry. Out goes Henry, in comes... ?.

The problem with the team at the moment is that it is in limbo, between what is left of the Invincibles and what is coming up next. I suppose that is a failure on the part of Wenger as you should ideally replace older players gradually and not leave a 'transition' period, but if it were not for the intervention of Abramovich's millions, Arsenal would still be champions. Vieira is the obvious difference to point to, but Vieira's form had been dropping over the last 2 years anyway. I'd point to the constant injuries to Campbell, the sharp decline of Pires and Bergkamp, as well as the loss of a massive amount of experience in Keown, Wiltord, Kanu, Parlour and Edu. None of them world-beaters but all them had their moments.

Next season Arsenal move to a stadium that will generate more than a million a game than what is already being generated by Highbury. Youth academies and partnerships are being setup all over the world. Wenger is continually building a very strong squad of young players. Some are already (relatively) well known - Reyes, Clichy, Senderos, Eboue, Hoyte, Fabregas, Flamini, Quincy and Van Persie. Below that there are the likes of teenagers such as Djourou, Muamba, Smith, Lupoli, Bendtner, Vela(?) and Stokes.

Either in January or in the summer, Arsenal primarily need to strengthen in midfield. A new goalkeeper is also going to be needed eventually, but Lehmann has been fantastic since he got his place back last season so I don't think an immediate first choice keeper is required - someone relatively young who can be understudy/fight for his place would be ideal. Cygan must gotten rid of, and another defender who can play CB should be brought in. I'd wait until the end of the season to see how Van Persie has done before deciding whether to go for another striker.

jank

There is a lot of talk of Henry going. Personally I dont believe altough it would be a huge loss if he did it wouldnt be the end of the world.

Arsenal are moving to a new stadium next season which as Kaids said will bring in an extra million per game. Thats the price of a world class player right there! Never mind when the time comes to selling their highbury apartments which will bring in about 150 million.

However Wenger needs to buy some steel in January. Maniche would be great but what about Yaya Toure? Kolos younger brother.

There is also talk about Trableisi (again) and Peinaar. Both are fantastic players imo.

Arsenal have been a little unlucky with injury. Our 2 left backs getting a broken foot like!

Personally Im quite happy with the way things are at the moment.
After all it is a time of transistion very differnet to the situation at Man U.
FA cup and CL for Arsenal this season!

Jivin Turkey

Even if Henry were to leave in the short term, in Van Persie, Arsenal have another world beater in the making.

Rollo Tamasi

this jan transfer market is going to be fun. It's the first time since Chelski's millions that they will be inactive in the transfer market at a time when Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal are all trying to sign one or two world class players. Therefore we should see the contenders properly competiting with one another in the transfer market for the first proper time in ages....as long as Chelsea don't do a Essien on it again!

Pepe LeFrits

jank wrote:

Never mind when the time comes to selling their highbury apartments which will bring in about 150 million

Aaah, I vaguely recall signing up for information on these online once when I was drunk. I just noticed a big booklet in my mail today from Arsenal about them, pricing, apartment lay-outs etc. They look absolutely fantastic, if only i had £300+ sitting in a bank account somewhere!

Necronomicon

Long term? No. New stadium, a core to the team with an average age of, say, 22? (Rough guess)....you'd have to say things look pretty rosey.
Arsenal's only problem is in the short term. They were never the most physical side under Wenger, so the loss of Vieira has dented them further. Great side to watch, but Bolton exposed their weaknesses last saturday. Next month is an important one for Arsenal I think. A lot of people might say they don't need to rush into buying anyone, but given their great start to the Champion's League, if they address one or two problems than this season could be the best chance they've ever had for winning it.

The Muppet

I love the way the Arsenal supporters assume all these promising youngsters they have are going to fulfill that promise.

@ ELBOW316


I dont have any need to clutch at straws. Have a look at the league table, thats the true reflection of form. I don't believe there is any crisis. I stand by my post. Time will tell whether I,m right or wrong .

Big Nelly

The Muppet wrote:

I love the way the Arsenal supporters assume all these promising youngsters they have are going to fulfill that promise.

Problem is more times than not Wenger has actually brought thru these younger players. There is alot of younger players he has in the team now playing. Reyes, Van Persie, Cecs, Flamini, Senderos, Cole, Glichy and another guy with funny name who played Wed nite(abowe or something) have all come through and now part of the full team squad. Now that ain't a bad list. Thats is as good as the Beckham Utd team that came through, if not better. So I think the Arsenal fans have a right not only to assume but to be certain there will be more.

Remember what they said about the Utd team and kids? sounds alot like jelous fans to me.

Also if any of these players dont work out fully. Shef Wed will have no probs taking them off your hands

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Out goes Henry, in comes... ?.

Talk of young French forward who was playing for U21's when they beat England. Can't remember name but heard it mentioned. Was on Showboat 2 times that weekend. Looked in the mold of Henry, quick and was pulling to the wing alot.

WhiteWashMan

arsenal have a very talented bunch of youngsters coming through the academy, which is more than can be sid for utd.

i think they may go up and down, but over all, i think they will still be up there in 5, 6 or 7 years time

The Rooster

Thank you pete for reading my post, something Big Nelly and Royale were obviously incapable of doing.

At this moment, there is very little between Arsenal, ManU and Liverpool, as is evidenced by the league table. There's probably not a whole lot between them in defence, all have star performers and glaring weaknesses - each capable of giving away silly goals, or of going on an cleansheet run, like Liverpool have recently. Liverpool are well ahead of the other 2 in midfield - United need two central midfielders - Arsenal are placing a lot of reliance on Fabregas - a great talent it appears, but not up to doing it week in week out just yet. Gilberto should help him out - a more than decent player playing alongside Vieria, but is he up to being the top dog in midfield? - you don't often see him dominate a game, although TBH I havent seen much of him this year.

Up front Arsenal (and MU) are excellent - if either of them had Gerrard and Alonso in midfield this season, there is no question they'd be up with Chelsea (and possibly beyond them). Liverpool's strikers are only average at the moment.

I think there's goina be very little between Arsenal and ManU come the end of the season - probably depends on what comes in in Jan. It is more difficult to predict where Liverpool will come - I think they'll be very close to the other two. I suppose the question is - what's more important a good midfield (who can help the defence and attack) or great strikers who'll get you the goals to win games (if they get the service)?

gracehopper

one player whose doing well for them at the mo is V Persie, he's just signed a longterm deal aswell: http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=332759&cpid=8&CLID=&lid=4161&title=Van+Persie+delight+at+new+deal&channel=skysports_home_page

Big Nelly

The Rooster wrote:

Thank you pete for reading my post, something Big Nelly and Royale were obviously incapable of doing.

At this moment, there is very little between Arsenal, ManU and Liverpool, as is evidenced by the league table. There's probably not a whole lot between them in defence, all have star performers and glaring weaknesses - each capable of giving away silly goals, or of going on an cleansheet run, like Liverpool have recently. Liverpool are well ahead of the other 2 in midfield - United need two central midfielders - Arsenal are placing a lot of reliance on Fabregas - a great talent it appears, but not up to doing it week in week out just yet. Gilberto should help him out - a more than decent player playing alongside Vieria, but is he up to being the top dog in midfield? - you don't often see him dominate a game, although TBH I havent seen much of him this year.

Up front Arsenal (and MU) are excellent - if either of them had Gerrard and Alonso in midfield this season, there is no question they'd be up with Chelsea (and possibly beyond them). Liverpool's strikers are only average at the moment.

I think there's goina be very little between Arsenal and ManU come the end of the season - probably depends on what comes in in Jan. It is more difficult to predict where Liverpool will come - I think they'll be very close to the other two. I suppose the question is - what's more important a good midfield (who can help the defence and attack) or great strikers who'll get you the goals to win games (if they get the service)?

Can we stay off the "how great Liverpool is" idea in this thread at least

Gangsta

Big Nelly wrote:

Can we stay off the "how great Liverpool is" idea in this thread at least

Indeed it's about Arsenal.

I think Arsenal look in good shape for the longterm which wenger is always thinking of, not short term with some quick fixes that back-fire. Arsenal have many youngsters coming through, granted not all of them will make it but I'm sure most will as it is wenger who is guiding them. I really can't see Henry leaving and with rvp coming on now that will be a great partnership for years to come. One or two players I would bring in is a rough tackling, controlling central midfielder to partner Gilberto (Cesc cannot be relied on totally yet) who will sit in the midfield.

The Rooster

Big Nelly wrote:

Can we stay off the "how great Liverpool is" idea in this thread at least

Great post, as usual Nelly. Have a go at someone (usually in complete error because you havent read the post properly) without adding anything yourself to the debate.

Can you just grow up and stop trying to score petty points or start flame wars. Neither of my posts were about "how great Liverpool is", so maybe you should just read other people's posts. Or maybe you should post something where you dont have a go at somebody else.

Anyone with a brain would realise that its perfectly reasonable when discussing the attributes of one team to compare them to their rivals.

I dont think Arsenal will win the title or a champions league with the current team (including the youth coming through). As has been said, Van Persie and Cesc are very good but can't be relied on just yet to produce the goods every week. Gilberto is steady but won't win you games. Campbell is not getting any younger, and his form has been average - albeit there's still not too many around who are better than him. Not getting Julio Baptiste was undoubtedly a big blow but I think Reyes has been the biggest disappointment of the season. I'd cash in on him now, while his stock still holds value in Spain, and get someone more valuable to the team in.

Gangsta

The Rooster wrote:

Great post, as usual Nelly. Have a go at someone (usually in complete error because you havent read the post properly) without adding anything yourself to the debate.

Can you just grow up and stop trying to score petty points or start flame wars. Neither of my posts were about "how great Liverpool is", so maybe you should just read other people's posts. Or maybe you should post something where you dont have a go at somebody else.

There is no need to fan the flame...just ignore it and give your opinion relating to the thread.

Big Nelly

The Rooster wrote:

Great post, as usual Nelly. Have a go at someone (usually in complete error because you havent read the post properly) without adding anything yourself to the debate.

I have already been discussing on here about Arsenal and I think they have a good team as mentioned. Maybe read my posts. Also I aint having a go at you? when did I have a go? you mentioned about having the 2nd best team and I pointed out you didnt. If I re-read then sorry but I never had a "go" at anyone

Anyway I just asking not to bring this thread down to a Liverpool one. Wasn't even me that first mentioned it.

The Rooster wrote:

Can you just grow up and stop trying to score petty points or start flame wars. Neither of my posts were about "how great Liverpool is", so maybe you should just read other people's posts. Or maybe you should post something where you dont have a go at somebody else.

I aint trying to score any points off anyone? didnt know you got points here? can I have some? but would rather a pint.

The Rooster wrote:

Anyone with a brain would realise that its perfectly reasonable when discussing the attributes of one team to compare them to their rivals.

So I dont have a brain because I asked for a thread not to go into the usual Liverpool v Liverpool thread. Sorry but there is more than Liverpool supporters here. This thread was started about Arsenal having trouble struggling. Not about Liverpool have a great midfield or the best centre back or anything to do with Liverpool.

And I ain't fanning any flames if anyone asks. Just asking his questions. now back to Arsenal

Oh yeah I aint answering any more posts on this! keeping myself on topic from now on:-)

Big Nelly

gracehopper wrote:

one player whose doing well for them at the mo is V Persie, he's just signed a longterm deal aswell: http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=332759&cpid=8&CLID=&lid=4161&title=Van+Persie+delight+at+new+deal&channel=skysports_home_page

He has been there best player so far this season IMHO. Ahead of Henry because he has played more games. His link up play has been brillant in last while.

Gangsta

Yes I always had a feeling van persie would be the first of the youngsters to really shine.

Big Nelly

Gangsta wrote:

Yes I always had a feeling van persie would be the first of the youngsters to really shine.

Well at start of last season it was Reyes who was cleaning up, but after the whole Real Madrid saga he has lost his form dramatically. Still a quality player but I am not sure if Wenger knows where to play him. At the start was playing up front beside Henry or with Bergkamp playing behind him. But since loss of form Wenger seems to be sticking him out on the wing to do a job. Same he did with Wiltord who was another big money buy that went wrong. If his form continues like this could see what happened to Wiltord, he is quietly moved out of club for a fee or on a free and Wenger looks like he done no wrong.

When you see the form of Wiltord since he left and the money Arsenal spent on him it was an awful waste to play him on the wing.

Lemlin

The Rooster wrote:

Thank you pete for reading my post, something Big Nelly and Royale were obviously incapable of doing.

At this moment, there is very little between Arsenal, ManU and Liverpool, as is evidenced by the league table. There's probably not a whole lot between them in defence, all have star performers and glaring weaknesses - each capable of giving away silly goals, or of going on an cleansheet run, like Liverpool have recently. Liverpool are well ahead of the other 2 in midfield - United need two central midfielders - Arsenal are placing a lot of reliance on Fabregas - a great talent it appears, but not up to doing it week in week out just yet. Gilberto should help him out - a more than decent player playing alongside Vieria, but is he up to being the top dog in midfield? - you don't often see him dominate a game, although TBH I havent seen much of him this year.

Up front Arsenal (and MU) are excellent - if either of them had Gerrard and Alonso in midfield this season, there is no question they'd be up with Chelsea (and possibly beyond them). Liverpool's strikers are only average at the moment.

I think there's goina be very little between Arsenal and ManU come the end of the season - probably depends on what comes in in Jan. It is more difficult to predict where Liverpool will come - I think they'll be very close to the other two. I suppose the question is - what's more important a good midfield (who can help the defence and attack) or great strikers who'll get you the goals to win games (if they get the service)?

Not sure about Liverpool being well ahead of the other two myself. You've spoken alot about central midfield but how about some width?

Liverpool are certainly stronger in cenral midfield when Gerrard and Alonso are playing but they lack the width that Arsenal have.

When it comes to wingers, Arsenal have Pires, Ljunberg and Hleb. Liverpool have Kewell and Riise, with Gerrard or Finnan filling in alot. Cisse is often forced out to the wing to compensate for their inadequacies.

Therefore I'd say Arsenal's midfield is just as strong as Liverpool's.

And if Sir Alex could force some decent displays out of the midfielders he has at his disposal (Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo and Sung) United's would be just as strong too.

I'd agree with you that Liverpool do excel in defence at the moment but not when Arsenal have a full strength back four of Cole, Campbell, Toure and Lauren. The Arsenal back four may let in more goals but they play alot more attacking football than 'Pool.

That's why I still feel that Arsenal are the second best team in the PL.

The Rooster

Big Nelly wrote:

If I re-read then sorry

Yes you did mis-read. Apology accepted.

We need to remember that Arsenal having topped their CL group and lying in 4th in the Premiership are hardly struggling - unless you're comparing them to Chelsea, or if you're being harsh, comparing them to Liverpool and ManU. But as was the point of my original post, there is little between the 3 of them at this moment in time. So with only one team definitely better than them in the league and CL to look forward to in Feb (apart from the recent performance against Bolton) I'd say Wenger is perfectly satisfied with the way the season has gone so far. Like Ferguson and Benitez, he'll be hoping that Chelsea slip up, just give a glimmer of hope to the others (say, go 2 or 3 games without scoring) and then we'll see who's capable of making a challenge. In fact, I heard him in an interview last Saturday morning where Wenger said that he expects one of Arsenal, ManU, Liverpool to kick on and genuinely challenge Chelsea this season, and that he expects that team to be Arsenal (as he would I suppose!)

Pepe LeFrits

The Muppet wrote:

I love the way the Arsenal supporters assume all these promising youngsters they have are going to fulfill that promise.

haha. They don't need to, that's what the expanding transfer kitty is for.

WhiteWashMan

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

haha. They don't need to, that's what the expanding transfer kitty is for.

who is that shining bright star!

/me covers eyes