Probably risk being banned for this but...

that guy

Does anyone here actually have an appreciation or knowledge for actual contemporary traditional irish music?

I dip into this forum every now and then and all i hear about is trash punk metal "ballad" bands, Kila, and the lonesome f u c k i n g boatman.

I've resisted reacting til now, and to quote Popeye "I can't stands no more"

The above (and yes you can include the drop dead murphy's or whatever the hell they're called, and the wolfe tones and a wealth of others in that sad list) are the bane of every bona fide traditional musician's life. Seriously. Next time you're in a pub whether it's the Spailpin Fanach or the Lobby in Cork or Hughes or the Cobblestones in Dublin or Cruises or Paddy Quin's in Ennis-basically any pub where there are accomplished musicians huddled in the corner playing music and being largely ignored by the general public and there isn't a massive sounds system, no electric piano accordian and there is no drum kit and no bass player - knock back a whiskey to steel your nerves and go up to the people playing and ask them if they know the lonesome boatman, or anything from the wolfe tones, or better still "dirty old town", or maybe "toora loora loora". And come back to this thread and tell me what their reaction to your request is. Seriously. Lets make this a thread excursion, an experiment if you will.

Frank Cronin

I expected some kind of retort to the trad-punk post from trad-purists. My take is very different, I ignored most things trad for a long time, then the Pogues / Dropkick Murphys / Tossers but especially Kildare/Dublin's Blood Or Whiskey re-ignited my interest in trad, but only the band versions, I sought out Dubliners CD's etc.

No doubt you won't find my views agreeable, but you should see a BOW show and witness the energy that a trad-punk act can bring to the massess, it may be a sub-genre or whatever label you wish to place on it but it opens up the real deal to people seeking out Pete St John etc and the like whom otherwise never would have hit the mainsteam radar.

F.

that guy

The Pogues. -Fantastic. Great lyrics, brilliant melody's, many unforgettable songs.

But it's not traditional music.

"Trad Punk" is punk music with a trad flavour. Ditto "Trad Rock", or "Trad whateverthehellyouwant". This has nothing to do with purism. Dr. Dre might sample some violin concerto for a hip-hop track but it doesn't make it classical music.

-To be fair, this is a forum very deliberately headed "Music/Traditional". Now because it's based in Ireland I suppose it defaults to "Irish Traditional Music" although there's no official distinction of any kind made or inferred as far as I can see. But apart from beginner Bodhran lesson requests, I have yet to read anything on this forum that would fall under the (in itself extremely wide) banner of "Traditional Music" (let alone Irish traditional music).

EvilPixieOne

I don't follow irish music so much as play it, which is why I look in on this forum. Everyone has their reasons, even if they don't all spend their time coming up with new bands to talk about. Feel free to start a new discussion though...

River Allow

Ive been playing traditional music since I was eight and am a traditional singer.. I have to agree with the guy... The pogues and even the Wolfe Tones aren't what Id call completely traditional.. More like modern traditional.. No, its the likes of Matt Molloy, Joe Burke, Tommy Peoples, Matt Cranitch that are the real lod traditional musicians, the Begleys are the real old traditional singers and Ive seen very little about these on this forum

Custom22

What are you talking about, the Corrs are the essence of trad! :v:

EvilPixieOne

You want to talk about the Begleys, you talk about the Begleys. There arn't many users who go to this forum anyway and if they were all like you nothing would get talked about

that guy

Well maybe the reason there are feck all people on the forum is because when newcomers first encounter the site they go "ah great, a forum for traditional music" only to be confronted with Johnny Logan and the wolfe tones.

So they run away screaming.

pinkyirl

i must say i agree with the lads, i'm only a newcomer to the world of trad music & i came on here hoping i'd find loads of info & chats about trad music, the flute, musicians, instrument makers, sessions, cds, etc - but i've been very disappointed. I don't know why i bother to keep checking back - i suppose there's always a glimmer of hope.

but then my hopes get dashed to the ground when i log on & see a thread about the feckin CORRS!!???? - like who the hell thinks the corrs warrant being called 'traditional' - they are Irish yes, but being Irish doesnt make them feckin traditional!!

I'm off to start a thread about the clubland version of the fields of athenry -that's traditional innit?

Hairdo

I agree. The Corrs are the most GOD-AWEFUL band to ever come from this country, with the possible exception of that Kavanagh fella.

Anyone who thinks the Corrs are traditional artists obviously know NOTHING about genuine traditional Irish music.

I'm not a musician myself, but my best friend is an very accomplished trad musician in Galway and I've met quite a few extremely accomplished players through her, and thanks to that I know SOMETHING, at least, about trad music-and the Corrs are CRAP!

Custom22

stephensonruth wrote:

I agree. The Corrs are the most GOD-AWEFUL band to ever come from this country, with the possible exception of that Kavanagh fella.

Anyone who thinks the Corrs are traditional artists obviously know NOTHING about genuine traditional Irish music.

I'm not a musician myself, but my best friend is an very accomplished trad musician in Galway and I've met quite a few extremely accomplished players through her, and thanks to that I know SOMETHING, at least, about trad music-and the Corrs are CRAP!

I hope your not saying that because the Corrs are not trad they are crap! :v: They are not my taste either but they are sucessful because they write good pop songs and play their instruments well. They are not, by any stretch, traditional, they are pop, but its not fair to call them ****e! I also wonder why I check back here so often. Just thinking about it though, maybe if we actually posted some threads of interest in relation to trad music proper we could get some interest going in the forum, instead of posting any more comments in thi"s whiney thread. No point in waiting for someone else to do it.

Anyway, definately a fair point raised in this thread nonetheless.

redmagic

as someone who lives in the united states but is very interested in Ireland and her music, i checked in on this forum to find out what traditional bands are popular in Ireland. FYI, traditional, to me, is the music played in Irish pubs.
on that note, can anyone recommend pubs which offer traditional music in dublin, galway, and athlone?

Hairdo

In Galway City you'll find good trad in: Tigh Coili on shop St, Taffes on Shop St, The Crane (Beside Massimos), Some Trad in Monroes, An Pucan and Crowes. There are a few more but mostly you'll find everyting you're looking for in the first 3.

In relation to the Corrs: I am not suggesting that the Corrs are Traditional but having lived in a few other countries i've discovered that those countries think that the Corrs are genuine traditional Irish music and therefore, on an international market they are classed as trad.

Also, I don't think that they are popular because they are good and play their instruments well. I think that they are popular simply because they are good-looking. If they were ugly they wouldn't be half so popular! Ever notice they never really show-off Jim? That's because he's not as gorgeous as the girls!

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

the_syco

Well, I find that most bands play either "fast" trad, or "slow" trad. Slow trad is sometimes nice, and is usually a ballad about some sad event, whereas fast trad is about fighting (against the English, against other Irish before the english came, etc), happy times, etc. I prefer the fast trad, and find that if this is ever being played, there is usually a good crowd nearby.

Custom22

stephensonruth wrote:

I
I don't think that they are popular because they are good and play their instruments well. I think that they are popular simply because they are good-looking. If they were ugly they wouldn't be half so popular! Ever notice they never really show-off Jim? That's because he's not as gorgeous as the girls!

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

I think you are wrong. They write msic that shows they know how to write pop songs and every performance I have seen of them (on TV) has been pretty much perfect. It's obvious that being good looking is a great bonus, but they do have talent; otherwise they'd be models. I think that's pretty obvious.

Trouble

that guy wrote:

Does anyone here actually have an appreciation or knowledge for actual contemporary traditional irish music?

I dip into this forum every now and then and all i hear about is trash punk metal "ballad" bands, Kila, and the lonesome f u c k i n g boatman.

I've resisted reacting til now, and to quote Popeye "I can't stands no more"

The above (and yes you can include the drop dead murphy's or whatever the hell they're called, and the wolfe tones and a wealth of others in that sad list) are the bane of every bona fide traditional musician's life. Seriously. Next time you're in a pub whether it's the Spailpin Fanach or the Lobby in Cork or Hughes or the Cobblestones in Dublin or Cruises or Paddy Quin's in Ennis-basically any pub where there are accomplished musicians huddled in the corner playing music and being largely ignored by the general public and there isn't a massive sounds system, no electric piano accordian and there is no drum kit and no bass player - knock back a whiskey to steel your nerves and go up to the people playing and ask them if they know the lonesome boatman, or anything from the wolfe tones, or better still "dirty old town", or maybe "toora loora loora". And come back to this thread and tell me what their reaction to your request is. Seriously. Lets make this a thread excursion, an experiment if you will.

I think that you are being a little unfair. In my opinion 'actual contemporary traditional irish music' comes in many forms and has evolved with the times. Trad music was dying a slow and painful death until the likes of the horslips and pogues took on elements of it and started a 'Trad Revolution' It now has an international audience and it is hepling to celebrate the careers of the more traditional types. I listen to a lot of variations of Irish music, but judge them for what they are. Instead of knocking the wolftones you should be thanking them for re-kindeling and re-shaping what is considered Trad. (ok they are not to everyones taste!)
Possibly this forum would have been more aptly titled 'Irish Folk Music' to draw the distinction but alas the average Irish person tends to associate the word Trad with anything that has a fiddle in it.

Rockee

Hi..I live in Dublin and I play a bit of guitar/bodhran, sing a bit. Play Planxty/Dubliners/Pogues/Christy Moore. Ive come to the conclusion that a 'real' job will never be part of my life. Im looking for maybe another 2 musicians who play mandolins/bazoukis etc to travel around europe with playing music(for money obviously) and to have great experiences with. Im 24. If interested email me at rosscorush@yahoo.ie

Eoghan-psych

that guy wrote:

The Pogues. -Fantastic. Great lyrics, brilliant melody's, many unforgettable songs.

But it's not traditional music.

Why not?

When we refer to "trad" music, we are talking about a folk tradition. Folk music can do two things and two things only. It can be "traditional", and die, or it can be an actual folk tradition going where the people take it.

This idea is especially noticable living in the UK. In Irish culture, it is *expected* that people be familiar with the various aspects of trad music, be it the Chuilfhionn or the "lonesome f u c k i n g boatman", Riverdance or Sean Nos. The music is alive, and well.

In England, there actually is folk music. I found some thanks to a bout of insomnia and some late night TV. When I informed some convenient English people of what I'd found, their response was "eh, what?". There is no folk tradition here as we would recognise it. That is very very sad.

Those who decry the Pogues, or the Corrs, or any similar act as not being "proper" trad are doing a great disservice to our music.

One of Christy Moore's songs [titles aren't my thing - everything's "Gan Ainm" far as I'm concerned] has a line about this very topic. It's about [paraphrasing] folk players being too proud to play what the people want.

Folk music is just that - *our* music. We own it. We decide what is and is not part of our tradition. Like it or not, "Dirty Old Town" is trad music. Like it or not, people *will* ask for the Lonesome Boatman, because it's trad music. They should know - it's *their* tradition.

leprehaungirl

that guy wrote:

Does anyone here actually have an appreciation or knowledge for actual contemporary traditional irish music?

I dip into this forum every now and then and all i hear about is trash punk metal "ballad" bands, Kila, and the lonesome f u c k i n g boatman.

I've resisted reacting til now, and to quote Popeye "I can't stands no more"

The above (and yes you can include the drop dead murphy's or whatever the hell they're called, and the wolfe tones and a wealth of others in that sad list) are the bane of every bona fide traditional musician's life. Seriously. Next time you're in a pub whether it's the Spailpin Fanach or the Lobby in Cork or Hughes or the Cobblestones in Dublin or Cruises or Paddy Quin's in Ennis-basically any pub where there are accomplished musicians huddled in the corner playing music and being largely ignored by the general public and there isn't a massive sounds system, no electric piano accordian and there is no drum kit and no bass player - knock back a whiskey to steel your nerves and go up to the people playing and ask them if they know the lonesome boatman, or anything from the wolfe tones, or better still "dirty old town", or maybe "toora loora loora". And come back to this thread and tell me what their reaction to your request is. Seriously. Lets make this a thread excursion, an experiment if you will.

yes i do think there is an huge apriaciation for irish traditional music whether or not you are talking about on board.ie or just in general i dont no. my best friends family are huge into trad music and are very well known in it. the very thought of someone considering the corrs as trad music would make them laugh! the is a huge interest among young people (teenagers), i no some of their friends from music and they are geniunely passionate about it , they love it they a really good understanding of it they dont look up to the likes of the corrs or that type but musicains who have been aorund for ages like willie clancy matt molloy,sean keane etc etc,like you said pubs like the cobblestone or hughes or others have "accomplished musicians" well i know loads of people that go in and listen to them i dont think their left playing in a little corner !!! anyways its an interesting tread !!:o

that guy

Here's an ironic spanner in the works, seeing as I'm the guy who started this thread but...


the new corrs album is supposed to quite good. - They got Mitchell Froom in to produce it. Mitchell Vroom did all the good Crowded House albums -i.e. the first three.

Haven't heard it yet, but I'm interested in giving it a fair hearing. -Just in case anyone's confused -the Corrs are not highly respected for their music (not to be confused with commercial success), but the new album has raised some eyebrows apparently.... tbc

Eoghan-psych

that guy wrote:

Haven't heard it yet, but I'm interested in giving it a fair hearing.

If you're talking about 'Home' then yes, it is very good.

term

Steering in a completely different direction, but did anyone else get to see Nickel Creek in Crawdaddy earlier this month?

About as trad as I would expect bluegrass music to be, brilliant players of their instruments and, most importantly, not afraid to have a bit of craic with the crowd.

Would recommend listening to them, if trad is your bag.