Required to Divulge Identity to Guards?

air

Hi there,
A quick question for you all, does a guard have any right to ask you who you are and where you're going when you havent committed any crime?

I'm sick of being stopped for tax/insurance/drink driving or whatever and being completely interrogated even though I'm completely innocent of anything.

I know they're using it to check out if you have slurred speech etc but I find it to be totally invasive to be asked where I'm going by some stranger.

I've no problem with handing over a license/insurance or whatever if requested but I cant see why they have any right to interrogate like this.
[/rant]

hottstuff

well this line of questioning is usually reserved for gathering intelligence on suspects , but no its not nice to experience it but better to just get on with it , if you have nothing to hide , save the small talk for the ones who are decent.;)

air

I know but it pisses me off no end, if someone can tell me they don't have any right to do it I'd love to tell them where to go (in a polite fashion so as not to give them any excuses of course) the next time I'm stopped.
Breathalise me, take my license but as far as I'm concerned they shouldnt ask my address / name (its on the fricking license anyway) / where I'm heading.
I just think we're turning into a bit of a police state, the last thing we want to do is turn into the US with cops everywhere & kids having permanent records for poorly tied shoelaces etc.

hottstuff

air wrote:

I know but it pisses me off no end, if someone can tell me they don't have any right to do it I'd love to tell them where to go (in a polite fashion so as not to give them any excuses of course) the next time I'm stopped.
Breathalise me, take my license but as far as I'm concerned they shouldnt ask my address / name (its on the fricking license anyway) / where I'm heading.
I just think we're turning into a bit of a police state, the last thing we want to do is turn into the US with cops everywhere & kids having permanent records for poorly tied shoelaces etc.

i think this process has already gone past the stage of recovery

junkyard

I was stopped at a checkpoint one day and had one p***k pointing a machine gun at me and the other one asking forty questions and there was me in my tow truck with a car on the back of it as if I was on my way to a bank robbery or something. I think the Guards here treat everyone as if they're criminals. I've driven many miles around Europe and at least any checkpoints I've come across the Police were polite and would address you as sir and thank you for your time but here for some reason you get treated like sh*t.

Guy:Incognito

air wrote:

I just think we're turning into a bit of a police state, the last thing we want to do is turn into the US with cops everywhere & kids having permanent records for poorly tied shoelaces etc.

Yeah, cos our method of cops nowhere and crime everywhere is a succes story.

MercMad

The gardai have the right to stop you and ask you for your licence, your name and address and where you are coming from or going to !

After that they have to decide if they are going to challenge you i.e "I have reason to believe blah blah..........."

Johnny Storm

My understanding is that the only thing you HAVE to tell them is your name and address ?
You'd want to be sure you dont have a cracked tail light or anything before you started down that road though. And that you dont have anything thing important planned for the rest of the day........ :v:

prospect

To be fair, they are not all like that (some deffo are).

I have been stopped like that before and asked where I am going and the guards have been very polite and friendly.

leeroybrown

Any Garda who has stopped me in the past has been polite and courteous. They just asked a few simple questions and I was on my way.

MercMad

Its a tough job in a world that becaome more dangerous each hour !

Its one thing thinking you are going to crack down on drink driving but it could be that you stop someone who has just shot someone in the leg..........as seems to happen every day now !

el tel

air wrote:

Hi there,
A quick question for you all, does a guard have any right to ask you who you are and where you're going when you havent committed any crime?

I'm sick of being stopped for tax/insurance/drink driving or whatever and being completely interrogated even though I'm completely innocent of anything.

I know they're using it to check out if you have slurred speech etc but I find it to be totally invasive to be asked where I'm going by some stranger.

I've no problem with handing over a license/insurance or whatever if requested but I cant see why they have any right to interrogate like this.
[/rant]

You are lucky you didn't grow up in the North. You would have endured this on a daily basis from the RUC as well as specialist harassment at the hands of the Army, in particular the Ulster Defence Regiment.

I remember one night me and a few mates drove to the cinema . We were all about 17. We were stopped at 5 road-blocks, (2 going, 3 coming back) and had the car searched 4 times.

We all knew that you only had to give the Army your name and address and nothing else. With the Police you had to answer everything they asked.

air

Yeah I've no problem with being quizzed up if there's anything out of the ordinary - dogdy car, insurance out, smell of drink etc etc.
Its when I'm stopped my car is perfect, I'm not drunk and they have no reason to be suspicious that I object to being interrogated.
Do they have the right to ask you where you're going?
I dont see why its any of their business?

Stekelly, if you do any research whatsoever you will find that increasing policing levels beyond a certain point has no impact whatsoever on crime levels.

I dont see how stopping random punters on the road can have any appreciable impact on crime figures anyway, I think resources would be better placed in providing resources for young people so that they dont go into crime in the first place.

air

I think that a fair procedure would be something like this:
Stop the driver, check car, tax, insurance and license.
Breathalise the driver if needs be.
Then either:
1. Question driver about license, tax, insurance or drink if any issue is relevant. Arrest driver if applicable.
2. Let the driver go on his way, no further questions about address, cereal eaten for breakfast, shoe size, destination etc.

I'm glad I didnt grow up in the North alright.

hottstuff

air wrote:

I dont see how stopping random punters on the road can have any appreciable impact on crime figures anyway, I think resources would be better placed in providing resources for young people so that they dont go into crime in the first place.

sometimes its the random punters who are carrying suspect devices/weapons , or transferring illegal substances as the best way to move things is to use unknowns
unfortunately us random punters will inevitabley suffer for the guards to get ahead
but i understand what your saying , it makes you feel sick.

tabatha

i think once they become gards it goes to there head....big time!!! i have come across many that this has happened to (some family, some friends). the worst i have come across was the border police on the american-canadian border. the canidian police were lovely, very friendly. coming back, the american guy, please do me a favour! he was awful. talk about a chip on your shoulder. myself, my husband and daughter were with my sister and her husband. my brother in law is american. we were asked for out passports and talk about a big deal when he discovered that the police officer in immirgration in ireland had stapled our immigration forms together in my husbands passport. there was hell to pay. he took one hell of a fit. he accused the guy in ireland of being lazy for not stapeling the forms into each of our passports. wanted to know if we had a stapler with us to do it then and there! started to go on about his "irish ancestors" and that was the only reason he was letting us back in! a load of ****e!

el tel

tabatha wrote:

i think once they become gards it goes to there head....big time!!! i have come across many that this has happened to (some family, some friends). the worst i have come across was the border police on the american-canadian border. the canidian police were lovely, very friendly. coming back, the american guy, please do me a favour! he was awful. talk about a chip on your shoulder. myself, my husband and daughter were with my sister and her husband. my brother in law is american. we were asked for out passports and talk about a big deal when he discovered that the police officer in immirgration in ireland had stapled our immigration forms together in my husbands passport. there was hell to pay. he took one hell of a fit. he accused the guy in ireland of being lazy for not stapeling the forms into each of our passports. wanted to know if we had a stapler with us to do it then and there! started to go on about his "irish ancestors" and that was the only reason he was letting us back in! a load of ****e!

I agree you can't beat the American police for fussiness. Once I took a road trip with my then girlfriend where we drove to New Orleans in her wicked
240Z. On the outskirts of Montgomery, Alabama, we were busted for speeding by a highway control cop. I've rarely been so worried in my life as he approached our car he ordered us to put our hands were he could see them and I noticed he also had his hand on his gun. I was really glad that he gave us the ticket with no small talk whatsoever. One thing I remember most was now professional he was - no bollocking about or smart-arse chit-chat like you are liable to get here.

aw

junkyard wrote:

I was stopped at a checkpoint one day and had one p***k pointing a machine gun at me and the other one asking forty questions and there was me in my tow truck with a car on the back of it as if I was on my way to a bank robbery or something.

If they had the ERU guy at the checkpoint with a machine gun then I would think that that was no ordinary checkpoint. They were probably checking all cars for something specific (drugs, criminals, etc).

I've been stopped at a few checkpoints. The usual name, address, destination questions. I don't have a problem with this though. I'd rather they asked me and everyone else these questions if it helps them. One drink driver caught like this is one more driver who won't be putting my life and other lives at risk.

MrPudding

el tel wrote:

We all knew that you only had to give the Army your name and address and nothing else. With the Police you had to answer everything they asked.

I grew up in the north as well. Depending on where you were driving you could get stopped a lot. I was very rare for someone to get stopped by army alone. The rules of engagement and regulations governing army and police were different. In effect, the sole purpose of the soldiers was to protect the police personnel that were present.

Typically a VCP would consist of 2 or possibly 4 police with a platoon or 2 of army for backup. In the really bad days it was 20 to 30 soldiers for each policeman. In some cases initial questinoing was doen by soldiers but if there was anything suspicious the copper taking it easy in the land rover would be called to get legal on their ass.

I could not even guess at how many times I was stopped over my time in the north. What I do remember is how many times I was abused or hassled, (this is hasled over and above the fact that is weas stopped) that number was 0. Whatever your personal politics or feelings were they were just guys doing a job. In my experience if you were civil to them they were civil back.

MrP

hottstuff

aw wrote:

If they had the ERU guy at the checkpoint with a machine gun then I would think that that was no ordinary checkpoint. They were probably checking all cars for something specific (drugs, criminals, etc).

I've been stopped at a few checkpoints. The usual name, address, destination questions. I don't have a problem with this though. I'd rather they asked me and everyone else these questions if it helps them. One drink driver caught like this is one more driver who won't be putting my life and other lives at risk.

agreed....

Big Nelly

junkyard wrote:

I've driven many miles around Europe and at least any checkpoints I've come across the Police were polite and would address you as sir and thank you for your time but here for some reason you get treated like sh*t.

Think you have this the other way around. Have you ever taken to the French or Spanish police? they are the most ignorant police in the World. Hence why there is some much problems in France over the last while with burning out cars. This was because of the treatment by the Government and the police. Like police telling people "they will never be French!"...very polite indeed.

Everytime I have been stopped by Garda it has been a few questions and off you go. Very polite, sometimes they would explain the situation is long delays. Whats the problem with that? if they don't ask and someone gets killed or robbed in your area then its "why didnt the Garda know this person was in our area?"

Its a simple question and usually they are asking this question to
Access if you are drunk or on drugs
Checkpoint for criminals
Checking tax, insurance and NCT

Now whats the big deal? these are all for your own benefit. The only people that I see that don't want to give these details are the people the Garda are usaually after. Any normal good willing, law abiding citizen will try to help the Garda and will have no problems giving this information.

murphaph

Only been stopped twice by the guards when I was younger and both times I was an idiot and wasn't wearing my seatbelt, the two incidents happened at different checkpoints on the same day and both times the Guards just said "put the belt on". Can't really fault the Guards in my experience but I'm sure if you're getting stopped every week and asked where you're going it would get mighty annoying.

elexes

cant rember how many times ive been stopped but ive notised some things

guards that are new always quote every law under the sun guards in there late 30's will talk to you more make sure your ok and know why there stopping you and guards in there 50's just wana stop you say hi im bored wet cold and if i get to do this for 20 mins more im going home

instance

guard early 20's :where are you heading tonight
me : gf's
guard :can i see your lisence
me : i dont have it with me
guard : do you realise that under ... bla bla bla
me : do you realise how long it takes to get a replacement lisence
guard : stumped ... move along

guard late 50's
Guard : where ya going
me : cinema
guard : well go see that new disney monsters film i hear its brillent
me : na were going to see blablabla
guard : well u better get going so

very different

impr0v

A friend of mine was unsure of whether he was obliged to give them his name or not when he was stopped on his way home (walking) with his brother from a night out. He refused to do so and ended up with a trip to the station and a district court appearance for his trouble.

Big Nelly

impr0v wrote:

A friend of mine was unsure of whether he was obliged to give them his name or not when he was stopped on his way home (walking) with his brother from a night out. He refused to do so and ended up with a trip to the station and a district court appearance for his trouble.

Well years ago when I was first in Dublin was working night shifts, got bus home from work at 4 in morning and was walking in estate, seen this car coming along slowly and thought it was dodgy, started to walk a little quicker because I was just arond the cornor from house, car started to move a little quicker, so I was half running now and they flew by and pulled up in front of me. Cop hops out,

Cop: WHy you running?
Me(out of breath, damn smokes): had a clue who the f**k you where
Cop(laughing): you live around here?
Me: Yeah around cornor, number 12
Cop: Working late?(he could see my stupid work badge)
Me(still panting like a dog): Yeah on night shift just on way home
Cop(couldnt stop laughing): Right go on, someone was just robbed around cornor so maybe keep an eye out. Thanks and sorry for scaring you

Felt like a right gob****

skibum

The difference between old and new Guards is amazing, I work in a pub and twice over the last year when changing a keg I have been soaked in beer due to a faulty tapping head. Anyway on the way home the first time got stopped at a check point, Guard in his 50's had a quick look at the tax etc, every thing fine, sticks his head in the window starts the usual chitchat and suddenly get's the smell of booze, stops him dead in his tracks. Asked me was i drinking, I explained what happened, he started to laugh and waved me on
The second time (at the same location) was with a much younger Guard, same speil, but when he got the smell of booze off me, it was like he hit the jackpot, tried to explain, but he wasn't having any of it, to cut a long story short when he realised that I was telling the truth, he double checked everything on the car, and he was pi55ed off when he finally let me go having found nothing he could do me for

Robbo

You do get some strange attitudes in this country but any Gardai on the road I've dealt with have been professional and courteous.

Garda: Where have you been tonight?
Me: Out in town with some friends.
Garda: Have you been drinking?
Me: No
Garda: Why not?
Me: Well I'm driving.
Garda: Fair enough, on your way.

Big Nelly

Robbo wrote:

You do get some strange attitudes in this country but any Gardai on the road I've dealt with have been professional and courteous.

Garda: Where have you been tonight?
Me: Out in town with some friends.
Garda: Have you been drinking?
Me: No
Garda: Why not?
Me: Well I'm driving.
Garda: Fair enough, on your way.

yeah like "why the f**k arnt you hammered?" atitude. Its funny but true.

Seth Brundle

air wrote:

I dont see how stopping random punters on the road can have any appreciable impact on crime figures anyway, I think resources would be better placed in providing resources for young people so that they dont go into crime in the first place.

Frequent road blocks would have a huge impact on crime IMO. It would subliminally send out a message to avoid drink driving as a start. It would also possibly reduce instances of motor tax/insurance/nct evasion.
Then you may also have less of the serious crime traffic [e.g. last night on the M50].

air wrote:

I think that a fair procedure would be something like this:
Stop the driver, check car, tax, insurance and license.
Breathalise the driver if needs be.

Many of the current checkpoints are in theory for tax/insurance but the reason the gardai like to ask people a few questions is to get a sniff for gargle as they currently are not legally entitled to have random breath checks.

tabatha wrote:

i think once they become gards it goes to there head....big time!!! i have come across many that this has happened to (some family, some friends).

I must admit that most contact with gardai I have had has been positive and I can only recollect two occasions (out of loads) where I came across wan**rs.

Last Sunday, I was driving from Clane to Maynooth in a line of traffic and along the road a car approached flashing their headlights, something I haven't seen in a while and I believe should result in punishment. Are they wanting to protect drink drivers or what?

ambro25

I've been stopped once, by undercovers, alleging I'd been driving past Rathfarnham village (along castle) at 60 mph :rolleyes: Now the following was November 2004... You may have been there and seen me...:D

They tore off in a red Focus from Rathfarnham castle's car park, as I was breaking and coming to a stop for the lights (those before the Yellow House). Driver addresses me and flashes his badge, then proceeds to stop me on inside lane across from Yellow House and usual procedure.

* This car yours? No sir, it's my wife's
* where you coming from? Town
* Where you going to? Home
* Are you aware you were driving at 60mph? No sir, impossible - I was breaking and coming to a stop for a light that was red
* Well it took us [blah blah] so long to catch up with you at the light... (which is about 100 yards down road from castl car park exit, so me thinking 'WTF?!? so that proves what, exactly?' - but keeping schtum) Well, I'm very sorry that you think I was speeding, but I was not.

coppers (there were 2 of them) play good/bad cop now
(Other cop on pavement, looking at my FR license literally an inch away from his eyes)
* Do you live here? Yes
* Where is that? Rathfarnahm, at XXXXX
* Are you aware that you should re-register (I was on UK yellows at the time)? Yes, but I'm here temporarily (which I was - have since reregisterd now that I'm permanent).
* Who do you work for? (ambro25, by now, has had enough of the questioning that's going frankly wayyyy beyond a stop & check - license, car papers, insurance, MOT everything had checked FFS!) I don't see what concern of yours that is? In fact, lemme see your badges again, and I'll have your full names if you don't mind(in a friendly enough voice)

coppers play good/bad cop again
Other copper chimes in again
* Look there's no need to get stressed, we're just checking that you are driving legally, that's all...I am not stressed, in fact I have supplied you with every bit of information you've asked, and I believe I have been courteous and cooperative enough. I just don't see what business of your it is who I work for
*Well, just be careful and don't speed, 'cause the next time [blah blah]yes sir, yes sir, no sir, 3 bag fulls

There you go - Name, address, where you going, where coming from - and that's it.

declanoneill

kbannon wrote:

Last Sunday, I was driving from Clane to Maynooth in a line of traffic and along the road a car approached flashing their headlights, something I haven't seen in a while and I believe should result in punishment. Are they wanting to protect drink drivers or what?

Was it to warn of a tax/insurance check point? I'd flash to warn of a speed trap coming up. Not for a tax/insurance check though.