Required to Divulge Identity to Guards?

Alun

kbannon wrote:

Many of the current checkpoints are in theory for tax/insurance but the reason the gardai like to ask people a few questions is to get a sniff for gargle as they currently are not legally entitled to have random breath checks.

Not only that, but they can tell a lot by how people respond to simple questions. Lot's of errm's and aaah's and quick glances to their passenger(s) can reveal a lot. Same reason why customs officials and border guards ask them as well. They're not really interested in the actual answer, but more in the way you react.

Seth Brundle

It was to warn of a tax/insurance/DUI checkpoint.
Even if it was a speed trap I still wouldn't flash.

hottstuff

kbannon wrote:

It was to warn of a tax/insurance/DUI checkpoint.
Even if it was a speed trap I still wouldn't flash.

yes the cops can and will do you for this now , AFAIK

air

aw wrote:

I don't have a problem with this though. I'd rather they asked me and everyone else these questions if it helps them. One drink driver caught like this is one more driver who won't be putting my life and other lives at risk.

Few funny stories there
TBH I think the law should be changed so they can breathalise, if they want to know if youre drunk then they should breathalise you end of story.

Kbannon, how frequent do you want the road blocks to become exactly? How about having a cop on duty for every car on the road so he can quiz you up every time you go for a spin, is that the kind of country you want to live in?

IMHO the gardai have a fairly good handle on who commits crime in different areas (broadly speaking).
If they want to reduce serious crime I think their efforts would be much better spent targeting people that they are suspicious of rather than scanning through the masses doing a "crime lottery" if you will.

Seth Brundle

air wrote:

Kbannon, how frequent do you want the road blocks to become exactly? How about having a cop on duty for every car on the road so he can quiz you up every time you go for a spin, is that the kind of country you want to live in?

I didn't say that but the idea of coming across a checkpoint once in a blue moon doesn't exactly do much for law enforcement. Furthermore, this stupid notion that a crackdown on DUI at Christmas time is sufficient is ridiculous. The crackdown should be all year round!

Turner

ambro25 wrote:

I've been stopped once, by undercovers, alleging I'd been driving past Rathfarnham village (along castle) at 60 mph :rolleyes: Now the following was November 2004... You may have been there and seen me...:D

They tore off in a red Focus from Rathfarnham castle's car park, as I was breaking and coming to a stop for the lights (those before the Yellow House). Driver addresses me and flashes his badge, then proceeds to stop me on inside lane across from Yellow House and usual procedure.

* This car yours? No sir, it's my wife's
* where you coming from? Town
* Where you going to? Home
* Are you aware you were driving at 60mph? No sir, impossible - I was breaking and coming to a stop for a light that was red
* Well it took us [blah blah] so long to catch up with you at the light... (which is about 100 yards down road from castl car park exit, so me thinking 'WTF?!? so that proves what, exactly?' - but keeping schtum) Well, I'm very sorry that you think I was speeding, but I was not.

coppers (there were 2 of them) play good/bad cop now
(Other cop on pavement, looking at my FR license literally an inch away from his eyes)
* Do you live here? Yes
* Where is that? Rathfarnahm, at XXXXX
* Are you aware that you should re-register (I was on UK yellows at the time)? Yes, but I'm here temporarily (which I was - have since reregisterd now that I'm permanent).
* Who do you work for? (ambro25, by now, has had enough of the questioning that's going frankly wayyyy beyond a stop & check - license, car papers, insurance, MOT everything had checked FFS!) I don't see what concern of yours that is? In fact, lemme see your badges again, and I'll have your full names if you don't mind(in a friendly enough voice)

coppers play good/bad cop again
Other copper chimes in again
* Look there's no need to get stressed, we're just checking that you are driving legally, that's all...I am not stressed, in fact I have supplied you with every bit of information you've asked, and I believe I have been courteous and cooperative enough. I just don't see what business of your it is who I work for
*Well, just be careful and don't speed, 'cause the next time [blah blah]yes sir, yes sir, no sir, 3 bag fulls

There you go - Name, address, where you going, where coming from - and that's it.

I hate the way they quiz you when they stop you at checkpoints and for what exactly.....

finding a bomb destined for the blanchardstown area,
seizing 6 million worth of drugs,

I dont think these kind of finds are worth me being delayed 3 minutes on my way to collect the chinese ffs

Surely cant they just put on x-ray glasses or something if they want to find out what people are concealing

CrowdedHouse

kbannon wrote:

I didn't say that but the idea of coming across a checkpoint once in a blue moon doesn't exactly do much for law enforcement. Furthermore, this stupid notion that a crackdown on DUI at Christmas time is sufficient is ridiculous. The crackdown should be all year round!

The very fact that there has to be a 'crackdown' says it all really.

robbie1876

Sure might as well pitch in with my own story.

4am, Palmerstown bypass on the way home from a gig, undercover gardai pull me over.

Garda: You were weaving a fair bit back there, weren't you?
Me: Huh? I thought I was driving fine.
Garda: Ahhh, so you DIDN'T NOTICE you were weaving then? Have you been drinking etc etc....

Really annoying line of questioning. You're guilty if you're driving bad or guilty if you're not.

btw, was not drinking or driving badly that night, and was let go after a couple of questions, being told to be more careful in future :mad:

air

Chief--- wrote:

I hate the way they quiz you when they stop you at checkpoints and for what exactly.....

finding a bomb destined for the blanchardstown area,
seizing 6 million worth of drugs,

I dont think these kind of finds are worth me being delayed 3 minutes on my way to collect the chinese ffs

Surely cant they just put on x-ray glasses or something if they want to find out what people are concealing

How many random checkpoints do you see on the M50 toll bridge?
That was a case where a suspect car was pulled in and the people in it were arrested.
What exactly does it have to do with this thread?

I'm not familiar with the 6million drugs issue but I'd be inclined to think that any operators in the drug scene that are that big are hardly likely to become known only at random checkpoints down the road.

Just to bring this back on topic, can anyone actually clarify one's legal obligations when pulled over?
Does one have to state his or her destination for example?
Are we under any obligation to state anything other than name and address?

MarkR

From campus.ie

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The law does not require you to make any statement to the Gardai or to answer questions, before or after an arrest, except in the case of the Offences Against the State Act and the Emergency Powers Act, and the Road Traffic Acts. While a Garda is entitled to ask you questions, you are not obliged by law to answer.

and from the road traffic act

[/FONT] 107.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána alleges to a person using a mechanically propelled vehicle that the member suspects that such person has committed a specified offence under this Act, the member may demand of such person his name and address and may, if such person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, arrest such person without warrant.
(2) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that an offence under this Act has been committed and that the vehicle in relation to which the offence was committed does not carry its identification mark under the Roads Act, 1920, or any other enactment, the member may arrest without warrant the person whom he has reasonable grounds for believing was using the vehicle when the offence was so believed to have been committed.
(3) Where a person, when his name and address is demanded of him under this section, refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which is false or misleading, such person shall be guilty of an offence.
(4) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that there has been an offence under this Act involving the use of a mechanically propelled vehicle—

(

a ) the owner of the vehicle shall, if required by the member state whether he was or was not actually using the vehicle at the material time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence,

(

b ) if the owner of the vehicle states that he was not actually using it at the material time, he shall give such information as he may be required by the member to give as to the identity of the person who was actually using it at that time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who that person was,

(

c ) any person other than the owner of the vehicle shall, if required by the member, give any information which it is in his power to give and which may lead to the identification of the person who was actually using the vehicle at the material time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence. (5) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

If you think about it, they have to be satisfied about the indentity of who's driving the car (if driving) to make sure that insurance etc ok?

air

Thats bull IMO, we are required to carry our drivers license, if they take a look at that they can confirm your identity from that.
Based on what you've posted you dont have to give anything other than name and address.
Thats all I'll be giving in future.
Thanks for the info, case closed I think.

Our man in Havana

http://www.campus.ie/user?cmd=item-detail&itemid=1985 is a useful resource pity about all the spelling mistakes, how long would it have taken to run a spell checker?

BrianD3

air wrote:

Based on what you've posted you dont have to give anything other than name and address.
Thats all I'll be giving in future.

Good for you :rolleyes: So what are you going to do if next time a Garda asks you a question like where you're going. Give him a lecture about your rights? Complain about being interrogated?

Why have you such a problem with being asked a few simple questions. As already stated, the Garda is just doing his job by trying to suss you out. This sussing out takes the form of simple questions or smalltalk.

It's obvious that you have no respect for the authority of the Gardai this can be seen in your original post where you moan about being asked queastions by "some stranger".

air

I have every respect for the Gardai, however if I'm not obliged to tell them any more than my name and address then I dont see why I should tell them more than this.
Law abiding citizens have a right to privacy and I want to do no more than exercise my rights.

junkyard

I don't see why the Guards ask you where your going, most people will say "going home" or "going to work". I mean if your going to rob a bank your not going to say " i'm just nipping down to the AIB to rob it at 4 o'clock guard if that's O.K. with you" I think it's a f***ing stupid question, if you don't want to tell the Guards something your just going to make it up anyway.
Disclaimer: Junkyard has in no way been associated with any illeagal activities and has always cooperated with the Gardai.:D

BrianD

At least the Garda might forget. Right now we have EU laws going through that will mean that 3 years of your telecommunications data will now be held on file and available to law enforcement authorities.

mcguiver

Just for the record they can ask you anything they like.
The theory is to try to see what type of reaction comes from the driver.... slurred speech, aggressive/nervous etc.
Try tellin them you're only givin your name and address...I dare ya.
"Failure to comply with a verbal instruction from a member of An Garda Siochana...etc. " ...would you prefer to answer the questions down the station ???? not co-operating = reasonable suspicion, leads to search of person/vehicle etc.

junkyard

I was under the impression that there was a thing called freedom of speech in this country and if BrianD is correct this new law is certainly going to put a halt to it. It looks to me that there are going to be a few witchhunts to be had in the future if the powers that be, here or more so in the EU, don't like my tone.

Pataman

The item that BrianD was referring to is the holding of information about phone calls. Only the time, date and destination is recorded. By the way phone companies keep this info already.
Crime has become more sophisticated and crime detection must keep up with it.

BrianD

Once you have your mobile in your pocket they'll have your movements recorded and the very spot where you stopped for that Garda! My phone as Assisted GPS on it so it tracks my location even more accurately.

air

I realise that they can ask me whatever they want, however it seems the only questions that we have to answer are name and address.
I think the "non co operating" is more to do with failing to follow the instructions of a Garda - I.E. please go home & stop falling around the street etc, than failing to answer a question which you are not obliged to answer.

I can't see any Garda taking anyone "down the station" as you say just because they wont answer some questions that they arent required to answer.
You wont be under any obligation to answer any more questions down the station and assuming that you are innocent of any crime I think it would be quite likely to leave the arresting Garda open to prosecution for harassment, false arrest etc.

With regard to the phone calls etc, I think we have a long way to go before we catch up with the states in terms of logging etc.

air

mcguiver wrote:

Try tellin them you're only givin your name and address...I dare ya.

I think that this is a far more disturbing post than anything posted so far.
Are you suggesting that if someone acts completely within their rights in this country that they will be open to consequences which can only be described by "..." at the hands of the Gardai?
I started this thread because I was getting a bit frustrated by the line of questioning which I was receiving at frequent Garda checkpoints.
I felt some of the questions I was being asked were overly intrusive and wanted to find out exactly what the Gardai were intitled to ask so that I would be in a position to defend myself (verbally of course) from any unfair questioning.

I've never had any problem with the Gardai other than this (and to be fair its a small problem relative to policing problems in some other areas).
I would never have been afraid to act within my legal rights when interacting with a member of the Gardai and have never felt threatened by a Garda.
Are you suggesting that I have something to fear from the Gardai as a law abiding citizen?

mcguiver

As a law abiding citizen I don't think anyone should have anything to fear from Gardai or anyone else.

And if the questions are polite and proffessional I'd have no problem answering.
(Try living in France...they stop you randomly on the street, and carrying I.D. is compulsary).

What kind of questions are they asking ?

The most I've ever got are:
Is this your car ? ("is this your Ve-hick -ill").
Where are you coming from? /goin to?
Have you had anything to drink?

I was stopped twice this weekend, most I got was "where are ya headin ?"

If the questioning out of order I'd take note of time and place and shoulder numbers of all involved... then off to the station for a chat , prefably morning time when things aren't as crazy.

I remember hearing of one lad who thought he was getting a lot of awkward questions...turned out the previous car owner was similar description...and had been a very bold boy.