Will Schwarzenegger "terminate" Williams? [merged]

bonkey

Nox wrote:

Yep. And the "him" you're talking about should be the Graz politico who started the whole mess.

Indeed.

The politicians who "started this mess" took a stand against something they find unacceptable and unreasonable. They wished to show their objection to the death sentence by refusing to continue to honour a man who clearly supports it.

This clearly is an unacceptable situation, and these politicians should definitely be held up to blame.

You don't see American politicans protesting against foreign leaders when they disagree with the methodology used. You'd never see American, for example, threatening to censure a nation for electing the "wrong" officials, or for making the "wrong" political decisions....let alone carry such threats out.

I mean...what will we haer next? LeftyLiberal LIES that American politicans renamed French Fries out of petulance to French political decisions? Or some LoonyLeft tinfoil-hat theory that America sanctioned nations such as Libya for not acting in accordance to its wishes? Or indeed some FICTION that America threatened Austria with sanctions when the Austrians democratically elected some politicians that the Americans didn't like?

The Left is full of such lies and dishonesty, and we should refuse to accept it. Clearly Austrian politicans are wrong to criticise America and America's God-given Ideals as upheld by Governor Schwarzenegger. They probably don't really disagree in the first place, but simply hate Bush and the Republican Party and would do anything to cast mud at it given the slightest provocation. Indeed, I guarantee that had Tookie Williams been Austrian, these self-same politicians would, in fact, be baying for his blood,

Politicans the world over clearly have an unwritten obligation to honour and respect all American political decisions, as this in turn is how America and American politicans treat all political decisions made outside their borders. Anything else is just a Leftist inability to seperate their hatred of the Right frmo how things really worl.

I'd continue this line of reasoning, but my CoulterPill [tm] is wearing off and reality is threatening to intrude. Excuse me while I go rectify this situation.

jc

PHB

Williams founded the "crips" gang and they caused some havoc in the states and people got killed in the events

Way to undersell it.
The Crips gang caused an incredible amount of damage, and he is tacitly responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of people, mostly underprivledged black men, not to mention the countless civilians who have been killed collatorally.

If he was truly sorry, and truly repent, he should be willing to accept his crimes, and accept his punishment.
He is not.

And even if he was, he should be killed anyway, because he deserves to die for what he has done, and i'd happily do it before anyone askes.

sovtek

PHB wrote:

And even if he was, he should be killed anyway, because he deserves to die for what he has done, and i'd happily do it before anyone askes.

"Deserves got nothin' ta do with it."

The case against him was circumstantial and the witnesses were also facing charges and plea bargained. He also brokered a peace with the two rival gangs and spent the rest of his time in jail preaching anti-gang violence.
The is of course without mentioning the social causes that gangs are a result of. Of course killing Williams is going to relieve of any of it.
That's without going into the seriously flawed justice system in America.

Eoin

sovtek wrote:

"Deserves got nothin' ta do with it."

The case against him was circumstantial and the witnesses were also facing charges and plea bargained. He also brokered a peace with the two rival gangs and spent the rest of his time in jail preaching anti-gang violence.
The is of course without mentioning the social causes that gangs are a result of. Of course killing Williams is going to relieve of any of it.
That's without going into the seriously flawed justice system in America.

The governer has to assume that the guilty verdict was appropriate. Their appeals process is the place to overturn that decision, and that obviously failed. He claimed he was innocent of the murder, so was therefore not repentant. As mentioned earlier, clemency would only be granted if the prisoner is repentant - so there is a clear problem.

Personally - as I said in an earlier post - I think that society would have been better served with him alive due to his work of preaching anti gang-warfare, however his refusal - rightly or wrongly - to confess gave the "powers that be" no alternative.

Another thing to keep in mind is that people can talk about all the indirect causes of gangs etc, but he was a direct causing factor, so I don't know if his books were balanced at the end of it all.

Nox

sovtek wrote:

"Deserves got nothin' ta do with it."

The case against him was circumstantial and the witnesses were also facing charges and plea bargained. He also brokered a peace with the two rival gangs and spent the rest of his time in jail preaching anti-gang violence.
The is of course without mentioning the social causes that gangs are a result of. Of course killing Williams is going to relieve of any of it.
That's without going into the seriously flawed justice system in America.

Seems to me that, as I get the Cali news on this coast, Arny spent a lot of time looking at the case both pro and con and found that Tookies conviction was a 'clean kill' (pun intended). So, I find your point to be without merit.

Nox

spooiirt!!

Writing a few books is enough for a murderer and founder of the crips to be pardoned?
On the death penalty: whats the point in keeping a murdering gang leader alive, so he can live off the taxpayers money and still communicate with his fellow gang members from the inside, and organise more crime and death, till he gets old and eventually dies in prison? They should get a few appeals and a few years in case new evidence is found, but after that, they should be executed. First of all they can still cause harm from the inside ( and in the inside), secondly letting them rotfor another 40 years will just use up taxpayers money that could be spent on fighting the origins of crime in Urban areas.

No wait i take it all back, everything the US does is bad. period.

Victor

spooiirt!! wrote:

Writing a few books is enough for a murderer and founder of the crips to be pardoned?

I'm not sure (humanitarian reasons aside), but on balance does one think keeping him alive and letting him continue anti-gang work is better than killing him?

On the death penalty: whats the point in keeping a murdering gang leader alive, so he can live off the taxpayers money

It is cheaper to keep people in prison than execute them. Not only are American prisons remarkably "lean", but they have a very high productivity when it comes to the slave labour bit.

still communicate with his fellow gang members from the inside, and organise more crime and death

But he seems to have broken his gang links and encouraged others to do likewise.

Nox

Victor wrote:

But he seems to have broken his gang links and encouraged others to do likewise.

Wanna buy my used car? You know, the one with low mileage, good tires, and doesn't burn any oil.

Nox

Victor

Nox wrote:

Wanna buy my used car? You know, the one with low mileage, good tires, and doesn't burn any oil.

Um what boards do I moderate and what makes you think I'd be interested in any car?

Nox

Victor wrote:

Um what boards do I moderate and what makes you think I'd be interested in any car?

I forgot that I'm talking to a non-American. This particular phrase is an American idiom which means that if you believe what you wrote (in this case the thug making this miraculous turn around) ... then you'll believe the description I gave of my used car.

Bad analogy on my part. Hope I didn't offend you.

Arny did not stop (nor should he have) Tookie getting put to sleep. Thug should have napped a long time ago. And the bit about co-authoring (probably because he couldn't come up with a cogent sentence) kids books is a joke as a reason to commute a sentence.

Do you moderate other boards or other forums on this board?

Nox

spooiirt!!

Victor wrote:

I'm not sure (humanitarian reasons aside), but on balance does one think keeping him alive and letting him continue anti-gang work is better than killing him?
It is cheaper to keep people in prison than execute them. Not only are American prisons remarkably "lean", but they have a very high productivity when it comes to the slave labour bit.
But he seems to have broken his gang links and encouraged others to do likewise.

How much anti-gang work did he do? How many kids did he influence? How long after his initial imprisonment did he decide to be anti-gang? Did he shank someone or organise assinations on the outside before he became anti-gang? Was what he did enough to make up for the murders he committed?
I dont think keeping a scumbag alive for 40 years is cheaper than one bullet that costs less than a dollar. Granted, the gas chamber is expensive, and inhumane, and i dont see why the US doesnt just shoot them instead. And on the whole slave labour bit, having the prisoners work often puts other businesses out of er.. business . My point is it interferes with the market.


"But he seems to have broken his gang links and encouraged others to do likewise"

Yes he seems to have, but we dont know if he has encouraged others to do so. I dont think there is any way to stop the Tony Sopranos of this world from continuing to organise their er... organisations from the inside. Even in solitary confinement they still get their messages out. Better to just remove them completely.

Eoin

Nox wrote:

I forgot that I'm talking to a non-American

This is an Irish site, so this may happen quite a lot to you. Though I am not too sure why Victor brought up the moderator thing. Could you post a picture of your car?

Anyhow, I believe that he did have a positive influence while in jail, but this is all very irrelevant. The relevant facts are that: he was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death. He claims innocence. As he was found guilty, and this conviction was upheld, then this is akin to not showing remorse.

Arnie was actually given the easy option, because Williams would not show remorse, and therefore be a candidate for clemency.

Victor

eoin_s wrote:

This is an Irish site, so this may happen quite a lot to you. Though I am not too sure why Victor brought up the moderator thing. Could you post a picture of your car?

My point was the irony of offering a deal on a car to an anti-car person. Maybe we could sell some nuclear weapons to the Greens.

Eoin

Victor wrote:

My point was the irony of offering a deal on a car to an anti-car person. Maybe we could sell some nuclear weapons to the Greens.

Yes, because none of the Greens have any had any interest in non-environment focused companies! Sorry for seriously OT remark