Man U V Everton (contains scores)

theCzar

We're missing our 3 best midfielders, in Timmy, Mikky and Van the Man, so I'm happy to be 1-1 at half time.

thought Wright should have come for the ball that giggs put in the net, but United have had other chances (especially young judas). Beattie was unlucky not to score after 5 mins, good block by Rio (I think).

Still think we'll lose but hopefully not we won't get tanked.

MrJoeSoap

Wright is playing well. Looks like its only a matter of time though.

mike65

C'mon Everton! Ooops!

Mike.

Aquos76

Excellent save by VDS there. He has just made up for his first half mistake

MrJoeSoap

How Alan Smith wasn't sent off today I will never know. People talk about Alan Shearer but Smith was every bit as bad.

zAbbo

how poor are everton in the final 3rd ? , opened them 3-4 times, and couldnt finish, that mcfadden lad should have had a brace and an assist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/table/default.stm

Liverpool stay second on GD

theCzar

All over, a great point for us.

McFadden is looking a lot better now than he did earlier this season. Dickie's had his best game in more than 2 years, if he could rediscover his confidence it'd be great.

Phil Neville had a great game as well, my MotM.

Even Killer Kilbane wasn't too bad, he's running at players again and not just playing hospital balls back to the full back.

Poor old Marcus is shot, can't do anything but if McFadden can make a come back there's hope for everyone

Jivin Turkey

bazH wrote:

how poor are everton in the final 3rd ? , opened them 3-4 times, and couldnt finish, that mcfadden lad should have had a brace and an assist.

In a word, very.

Bent played the ball straight to Silvestre (I think) at the death when they had another two on one. I only saw the second half but from what I saw United didn't look like they were ever going to win it. Fair result it seemed.

besty

bloody hell, that was a piss poor performance from united. its sad to think how far the team has fallen from its summit when old trafford was a fortress 3/4 years ago.

Necronomicon

What an infuriating game to watch. But, that's what Everton do best. But credit to them, they probably deserved the point.
United, it bewilders me, they are so lackluster at Old Trafford it's just ridiculous. The attacking players on show, and they have only scored more than one in a single game once in seven home games. It just confuses me.
I think we should even feel relieved that we weren't playing a team with better quality up front, because Everton cut the defence open so many times towards the end it wasn't even funny. They squandered at least 3 excellent chances, and had it been a team with more flare, it would no doubt have been another home 2-1 loss for United. Frustrating as hell.

garred

Only caught the second half. Not very often you hear United fans booing (even when ex players are on the pitch). Ferguson saying they had clear cut chances and deserved to win the game I must of been watching a different match.

zAbbo

garred wrote:

Only caught the second half. Not very often you hear United fans booing (even when ex players are on the pitch). Ferguson saying they had clear cut chances and deserved to win the game I must of been watching a different match.

by your own admission, you only saw the second half, so in a way, you were watching a different game

Third_Echelon

bazH wrote:

how poor are everton in the final 3rd ? , opened them 3-4 times, and couldnt finish, that mcfadden lad should have had a brace and an assist.

At the start of the game where they had more chances they were playing with 2 up front. When they scored they went back to 5 in midfield, so they were more defense minded and played on the counter-attack, so naturally their attack was going to suffer.

Mc Fadden should have finished his second good chance. Good shot, but not in the right place.

Good point overall, Everton had their chances to win it, which they just didn't finish properly... They are acquiring a good base to climb up the table. Hopefully another 3 points against west ham on wednesday (im going to goodison for that game.. yeah!!! )

garred

bazH wrote:

by your own admission, you only saw the second half, so in a way, you were watching a different game

Fair enough. How did United play in the first half?

merlinsmerryman

Watching United makes me :mad: and also . I just cann't believe what has happened in the last year or 2. On paper a good attack, Rooney Ronaldo Van and Saha. Again on paper back not too bad Neville, Ferdinand etc(not at the moment but when on form), but literally nothing in midfield nothing at all. No pace, no power, no imagination, nothing. Sad really.

evad_lhorg

on paper? ronaldo has done nothing to prove he is good. yea hes got quick feet but he is selfish and doesnt know how to get back and defend and he falls at the feel of any sort of a human. he is crap tbh.

MisterAnarchy

ronaldo has done nothing to prove he is good. yea hes got quick feet but he is selfish and doesnt know how to get back and defend and he falls at the feel of any sort of a human. he is crap tbh.

Yes I agree.
Ronaldo is a waster.
He is a disruptive player in the Man United team and they should sell him asap.
He rarely chooses the correct option,he is a very poor crosser,and is too selfish.
3 times today he was in acres of space,he slowed down,looked into the box and then produced 3 woeful crosses that barely got more than 4 feet off the ground.
He has maybe 1 good match ,then 5 bad ones.
Not good enough.
He never should have been bought in the first place.

Necronomicon

Anyone think it may be difficult to produce your best form when:

1) Your father passed away at the start of the season.
2) You had to undergo a trial for rape allogations.
3) The team as a whole is infuriatingly inconsistant.

I agree, watching Ronaldo has made me want to tear my hair out at times this season, but come on, the guy is 20. After seeing some of the things he can do, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

merlinsmerryman

Necromomicon wrote:

Anyone think it may be difficult to produce your best form when:

1) Your father passed away at the start of the season.
2) You had to undergo a trial for rape allogations.
3) The team as a whole is infuriatingly inconsistant.

I agree, watching Ronaldo has made me want to tear my hair out at times this season, but come on, the guy is 20. After seeing some of the things he can do, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree, though i know someone will point out that the rape allegation necer went to a trial, but losing a parent must be though for anyone let alone a pro footballer given the media attention they recieve.

The Muppet

He is very annoying at time to watch but he is still lacks experienc. He will be a great player in years to come. I hope he is still at united when he is 25 /26.

EFC-4eva

(",) **virtual beer all round**

MrJoeSoap

Its easy to use the passing of his father as an excuse but surely you can't blame numerous poor crosses on this? Remember against Benfica when he decided to keep the ball up on his knee (in his own half) for a while? He didn't seem to be grieving much then.

I really don't rate Ronaldo very much at all. He's the kind of player little kids like, because he is flashy, but the rest of his game is very weak.

Necronomicon

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Its easy to use the passing of his father as an excuse but surely you can't blame numerous poor crosses on this?

I think it's a reason, not an excuse. Thankfully I haven't had to endure a loss like that, but I imagine it's not easy to take. And he had what, 2 weeks to grieve? Before coming back to a foreign country where he's still finding his feet?

I guess this debate will go nowhere, I could say all day that I think he will be a great player but neither of us know so what you make of him now is your opinion I guess. As I said, I think he has too much talent to be dismissed.

theCzar

Third_Echelon wrote:

Good point overall, Everton had their chances to win it, which they just didn't finish properly... They are acquiring a good base to climb up the table. Hopefully another 3 points against west ham on wednesday (im going to goodison for that game.. yeah!!! )

I'm going over the game as well, asked for tickets in Glawdys, got upper Bullens :rolleyes:

I used to have a remarkable record of never being to a game where Everton lost, which considering the trouble we've had for the last 15 years is some achievement. But then McAllister scored the late winner for the enemy, and then I was at the blackburn debacle last season.

I'll be the one in the Everton jersey...

Jivin Turkey

I have never been a fan of Ronaldo in the slighest, but the more I see of him the worse I think he gets.

His crossing is poor, as is his long range shooting. He doesn't score enough goals. He is selfish, and regularly makes poor decisions. He does not have a good footballing brain. He offers little in defence.

The thing that would worry me if I were a United fan about him is that he hasn't really improved that much since he arrived. These things are as bad as ever. Even look at Rooney, he is a much better player this year than last. He is completely bossing games for United. His temprament is better. You can see he is improving.

I know Ronaldo is still young, but they paid a lot of money for him. Enough money that you would expect him to be at a level now that you wouldn't be talking about potential. No one says Rooney has potential, Rooney has already delivered.

Third_Echelon

theCzar wrote:

I'm going over the game as well, asked for tickets in Glawdys, got upper Bullens :rolleyes:

I used to have a remarkable record of never being to a game where Everton lost, which considering the trouble we've had for the last 15 years is some achievement. But then McAllister scored the late winner for the enemy, and then I was at the blackburn debacle last season.

I'll be the one in the Everton jersey...

Got a ticket for the main stand... front row center

I will also be in the everton jersey... :cool:

PHB

Ronaldo hasn't been on form for United this year, without a doubt, but he has gotten better over the past period.

Where you see Ronaldo's real skill and potential showing is with Portugal.
Top scorer for portugal in the WC qualifiers, and played amazing, getting 3 man of the matches if i'm not mistaken.

What you don't think about with Ronaldo is the benefit he has to the team as a whole.
When he gets the ball, he is instantly marked by 2 or 3 players, this gives loadsa space to the rest of the team, and he often goes into corners, but he brings 3 players with him, and if he does get it out, United have a great chance.
Also, he is one, if not the most, fouled players in the premiership, and is never given enough protection from refs.

theCzar

Third_Echelon wrote:

I will also be in the everton jersey... :cool:

it must be a big jersey... front of the main is alright but I hate the stand supports that obstuct the view...

We're usually in the Park end near the away fans so if the football's bad, there's craic to be had listening to the wags shouting insults, some of them are very funny.

jank

Also, he is one, if not the most, fouled players in the premiership, and is never given enough protection from refs.

You mean if a player goes within 5 feet of him he should get a free

I said it in another thread that Ronaldo is one trick showboating pony. I think its worse he is after getting not better

PHB

And I said look at him for Portugal, to which you utterly ignored, cause it wouldn't fit in with the views you have.

Royale with Cheese

I hate Ronaldo with a passion, not because of him personally, more the fact that everyone thinks (or it seems now used to think) he is amazing. I've never rated him. He was rubbish for United for the first year, then he played well I think once against Arsenal in the FA cup semi final and all of a sudden the media decided he'd developed a finished product to his game. He is extremely ineffective, pisses up and down the wing all game and contributes little to the team. For some reason as soon as he plays somewhat ok, loads of praise is heaped on him (mainly by the media, then some united fans who gather all of their opinions from the media heap praise on him as well). I don't think that's the best thing to do with him. Fergie's better off letting him know how sh*t he is, might sort him out.

Well done Everton.

el rabitos

Where you see Ronaldo's real skill and potential showing is with Portugal.
Top scorer for portugal in the WC qualifiers, and played amazing, getting 3 man of the matches if i'm not mistaken

to be honest man, if stevie gerrard was playing great for england and playing how ronaldo plays for united for liverpool then i wouldnt be here defending him. its ok to speak critically of ur own team u know

jank

PHB wrote:

And I said look at him for Portugal, to which you utterly ignored, cause it wouldn't fit in with the views you have.

Baros finished top scorer in last years euro champs.

Doesnt make him world class though does it.

In a matter of fact the very fact that you are saying that he is great at international level but ****e for utd would be very worrying.

PHB

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, I havn't been clear enough.
Ronaldo is nowhere near the finished product, nowhere near world class.
He is an amazing potential, but since he is still young, is nowhere near consistant.
His preformances however for Portugal show his incredible potential, and this is recognised by the majority of the world.

jank

Its that word again...Potential...

You have been saying it for the last 2 years about him. Has he improved at all since he moved? He may have gotten bigger but still falls to the floor when anybody comes near him

PHB

Yes,
he has scored more goals and gotten more assists every year since he has joined

jank

PHB wrote:

Yes,
he has scored more goals and gotten more assists every year since he has joined

Has he??

Cant remember him scoring one goal this season. Do you have stats to prove it?

Dont be at yourself

PHB, you seem to be completely incapable of being objective when talking about ManYoo.

Ronaldo has been rubbish all season, and is of no benefit to the team playing as he does. His job is to create goals for the team, and he's not doing that. And what team marks him with 2 or 3 men at a time, honestly?

The Rooster

What a goal by Giggs. One of the best finshes I've seen in a long time - can't believe he even attempted it rather than taking it down first.

Ronaldo has an attitude problem - his decision making is often poor and he's always moaning and whining (contrast this to the times I see him playing for Portugal (admittedly far less often) when he always seems to have a smile on his face).

However, unlike most posters on this thread, I still think he's a brilliant footballer. I'm surprised United let him get away with his attitude problem and poor decision making, and I think for a 20 year old, he's not being rested enough. However I think most of his on-field problems are down to his teammates. At the moment, when up against decent oppositon he rarely if ever is given the ball in dangerous areas. He has to come too deep to pick up the ball, leaving himself too much to do and he tries to do too much.

Third_Echelon

theCzar wrote:

it must be a big jersey... front of the main is alright but I hate the stand supports that obstuct the view...

We're usually in the Park end near the away fans so if the football's bad, there's craic to be had listening to the wags shouting insults, some of them are very funny.

I got an unobstructed ticket thank god.... Goodison is nice old lady, but she does have some bad seats in the main stand alright...

When I've been to Goodison it has always been the main stand, so next time i must check out the Park End. Always looks like good fun!

PHB

I love that attitude, I'm not capable of being objective about Man Utd because I don't argee with you.
Have you not noticed at every single point you've said something i've countered it with a fact that proves my point?

And what team marks him with 2 or 3 men at a time, honestly?

No team marks him with 2 or 3 men, that would be silly, hence why I didn't say that.
I said

When he gets the ball, he is instantly marked by 2 or 3 players, this gives loadsa space to the rest of the team, and he often goes into corners, but he brings 3 players with him, and if he does get it out, United have a great chance.

Cant remember him scoring one goal this season. Do you have stats to prove it?

He scored once this season, in the premiership it went 3 goals to 4 goals to 5 goals.
I can't find a record of his assist, but I know he has 2 so far this season.
He also scored once and assisted once in the CL

This season in which

- his dad died
- he was accused of rape
- was injured

p.p.s

Before all these three things happened, in the pre season friendlies,
Ronaldo scored at least twice, but I think it was three times,
what I do remember however is the 5 assists he had over 6 games.

--

Also, the problem with United is not him, its the midfield, as The Rooster said, all of whom are now, since keano is gone, not playing anywhere near good enough to warrent being in that team.[Fletcher is still one for the future imo, but not ready to be a regular feature in a 4-4-2 central pairing]
Once that is fixed, you will see the real ronaldo, like you will see him this year at the WC.
All I hope for is that he doesn't get poached from us after this years WC

Dont be at yourself

PHB wrote:

I love that attitude, I'm not capable of being objective about Man Utd because I don't argee with you.
Have you not noticed at every single point you've said something i've countered it with a fact that proves my point?

No I haven't noticed that. What I have noticed is that you make wooly, unfounded statements, and constantly cling to unverifiable arguements like "well, he has potential", "he's one for the future" etc, etc. Also, saying things like "I know X for a fact" doesn't make it true unless you actually provide us with evidence.

No team marks him with 2 or 3 men, that would be silly, hence why I didn't say that.

Right, the question still stands. Which teams mark him with 2-3 men when he's on the ball?

He scored once this season, in the premiership it went 3 goals to 4 goals to 5 goals.
I can't find a record of his assist, but I know he has 2 so far this season.
He also scored once and assisted once in the CL

Here's some stats.

He's been in the Premiership 2 seasons, so your figures are a bit off. Last year he got 5 in 33, and the year before it was 4 in 29.

Here's some stats, for this season.

Christiano Ronaldo
1 goal from 12 league appearances.

Bolo Zenden (yes, good old unspectacular Zenden):
2 goals in 7 league appearances.

Van Persie (Who has also had a pretty rough time in his personal life...)
4 goals in 12 league appearances.

Joe Cole
4 goals in 13 appearances

So, of the four top teams in the league, Ronaldo finishes bottom of the pile when compared with similar players from the other squad. Sure his dad died, he was accused of rape, was injured - that mayexplain his poor form, but it doesn't change the fact that his! form! is! poor! (which is what we're talking about)

The problem with United (correction, one of the many problems with United), is the entire midfield. In my opinion, none of them are currently capable of consistently performing at the highest level. Giggs, Smith, Ronaldo may all be able to turn it on, but they don't do it on a regular basis. The players need a kick up the arse, and for some even that wont be enough. Proven quality is needed to fix that midfield.

PHB

Actually he has been playing in the premiership for four season, as he joined in the december.

Right, the question still stands. Which teams mark him with 2-3 men when he's on the ball?

Everton did, watch the highlights, every time he gets the ball 2 or 3 players are around him.

it doesn't change the fact that his! form! is! poor! (which is what we're talking about)

His form is poor, but its not what i've been talking about, and its not what others have been talking about.

What have I been talking about

"well, he has potential", "he's one for the future"

Is what i've been saying.
Its a really simple argument.

1. Young players are inconsistant.
2. They play well sometimes, play badly other times.
3. When Ronaldo plays well, he is amazing, and we nearly always win the game
4. He always plays well for Portugal, and plays amazing.
5. He has the potential to be amazing all the time.
6. He will reach that potential in time and with a better midfield next to him.

Is there some part of those 6 points you disagree with?
So why don't you break down some of that argument instead of arguing at cross purposes?

eirebhoy

I'm with PHB here. McGeady's form went for a few months this calender year and he was getting slated. He said he would be considering his future in December and a lot of fans didn't care if he left. He's now playing out of his skin and doing really well and he's gone back to the old player with tons of potential.

theCzar

Ronaldo scares the crap out of me when he's playing, even if he hasn't been playing well he can still win the game with a bit of brilliance.

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

5. He has the potential to be amazing all the time.
6. He will reach that potential in time and with a better midfield next to him.

But that's the problem, Utd. shouldn't be consistantly fielding players that have "potential" especially if they want to be contenders.

B.

Dont be at yourself

His form is poor, but its not what i've been talking about, and its not what others have been talking about.

Actually, his poor form is what everybody is talking about. It's a thread discussing the Everton game, and opinions on the teams' performances. You're the only one banging on about potential, as if it's an excuse/explanation for his poor form.

1. Young players are inconsistant.

Yes.

2. They play well sometimes, play badly other times.

That's just point one again.

3. When Ronaldo plays well, he is amazing, and we nearly always win the game

He hasn't been winning game for United recently, has he? So I guess we cn say he hasn't been playing well.

4. He always plays well for Portugal, and plays amazing.

I haven't seen much of Portugal, but I guess the world cup will tell all.

5. He has the potential to be amazing all the time.

Right, but United don't need potential.

6. He will reach that potential in time and with a better midfield next to him.

See, here's the problem. A person with an objective view might word that sentence "We might reach that potential in time and with a better midfield next to him." Potential is just that, potential. It's not set in stone, it's not definitely going to happen. How do you know that it "will" happen? Where did you get your crystal ball from?

United don't need potential. United need quality, and the likes of Ronaldo, Fletcher et al aren't providing that this season, certainly not enough to mount a title challenge, which is what United should be aiming for. Do you agree in that?

The Muppet

BaZmO* wrote:

But that's the problem, Utd. shouldn't be consistantly fielding players that have "potential" especially if they want to be contenders.

B.

Rubbish. How do you build a team unless you play the young players and let them develope to their full potential .

BaZmO*

The Muppet wrote:

Rubbish. How do you build a team unless you play the young players and let them develope to their full potential .

I just read over my post and realised that it should of read, "Utd. shouldn't be consistantly fielding players that only have "potential" especially if they want to be contenders"

At this level players should be performing up to a certain standard to be included in a squad as big as Utd. and lets face it, Ronaldo hasn't been.

B.

Aquos76

The Muppet wrote:

Rubbish. How do you build a team unless you play the young players and let them develope to their full potential .

This is what he actually said:

But that's the problem, Utd. shouldn't be consistantly fielding players that have "potential" especially if they want to be contenders.

B.

The word "consistantly" jumps out at me there. Its all right playing them now and again and breaking them into the team at a steady pace, but whats happening at the moment is these players are expected to replace experienced player. Lets look at Alan Smith for example. A striker by his own admission,Roy Keane gets injured and now Alan Smith is suppose to be a world class midfielder. As hard as he is trying he is not capable of controlling the midfield. Liam Miller is another who we expected alot from. What happened to him. Leeds I believe. Sure then we come to JOS, as expericenced as he his, how in gods name is he suppose to get consistency when he is expected to play in all 4 positions accross the back four and even midfield in the odd game.

The Muppet

Leonard wrote:

This is what he actually said

No It's not