Why Are Arsenal Supporters.....?

The Muppet

Why are arsenal supporters not baying for Wengers head ?

Just wondering where are the threads from Arsenal supporters calling for Wenger to be sacked after their fifth league defeat this season. I find it strange that their league form is much worse than Manchester Uniteds yet there has been a growing number of United Fans calling for Fergies head but the Gunners appear to be happy with their manager.

My own though on it is that The Gunners fans are more realistic and realise they have an excellent manager in place and that he is the best prospect for turning their season around.

United on the other hand are reaping the reward for attracting the "prawn sandwich" glory hunting brigade who can't/wont see the whole picture and are growing impatient because not winning everything is sight is not good enough for them.

Some have said there should be constant progression and Fergie has failed in that regard. IMO You cant really have success while constantly rotating the players, Tinkeman showed that at chelsea.

These fans appear not to realise that successful teams come in cycles, LIverpool in the eighties Man United in the 90's, too early for the 00's but Chelsea appear to have the makings for this decade. Once you have a sucessful team you get the most of it which is what Fergie has done twice at United.He is now trying to do it a third time but the lanscape has changed and it is not as easy as it once was to get the top players to go to United.

There is a selection of man United fans who want to get rid of Fergie. These fans appear to think that he has turned into a manager incapable of identifying and rectifying united obvious problems.

There is no quick Fix in football. Would liverpool have sacked Shankly or Paisley, Would Celtic have even considered sacking Stein ? The answer is no, and rightly so. If the united supporters calling for Fergie to be sacked have their way they will just prove there are the most disloyal fickel glory hunting fans in the history of the game . Fergie has indicate he wants another season in charge, surely fans owe him that. If not IMO history will show United in a very bad light.

So to conclude a question. Are the Arsenal Fans being niave by not calling for Wengers head or do United have a vociferous selection of the most disloyal fickle supporters with the shortest memories in footballing history?

Royale with Cheese

Maybe the have more intelligence than United fans? Maybe in the long run Arsenal are in a far better position than Manchested United? I fail to see how sacking Wenger can do any good for Arsenal. No offence but with United you do get those glory supporters who just started supporting whoever was winning at the time when they were growing up. These people aren't going to be particularly loyal, but I think Ferguson should leave at the end of the year, that's fairly obvious.

Big Nelly

Think it is well known by most Arsenal supporters they are in the middle of transistion. Paddy has left. Young players in there to replace who need this season to get used to playing. Moving to new stadium. Also because of Wenger the club are in the position they are in at the moment. He has made them into a great club and gave them the option to move to the new stadium which wouldn't have happened only for Wenger making them such a popular club that they will fill the new stadium.

Also in regards to the Ferguson thing, Arsenal fans can see a future in the club. They are building a new young exciting team full of quality. Utd fans see the club in decline. They have no midfield while Arsenal can say they have the most exciting young midfield in Europe. Wenger has replaced people where Fergie hasn't. I think thats the main difference. Utd in decline, Arsenal on way back up.

robz150

The Muppet wrote:

United have a vociferous selection of the most disloyal fickle supporters with the shortest memories in footballing history?

Liverpool supporters were the same with Houllier, Arsenal are doing well in the Champions league for a change that makes a big difference in the fans attitude. The supporters know Chelsea are going to win the league this year. A champions league place and a more experienced squad is what they should get out of the league this year.

MrJoeSoap

Arsenal may be fifth, but they are still in the CL. That could be a very important reason.

Plus there's the whole transition thing, but I reckon that could be argued for United too.

Royale with Cheese

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Arsenal may be fifth, but they are still in the CL. That could be a very important reason.

Plus there's the whole transition thing, but I reckon that could be argued for United too.

Yeah but at least with Arsenal I'd believe Wenger if he said the team were in transition (which I'm fairly sure he's refused to do). If Ferguson were to say that... just look at the players at the team. Arsenal have a lot of great youngsters and United have Rooney (and John O'Shea, Darren Fletcher etc.)

PHB

who just started supporting whoever was winning at the time when they were growing up

Just like the majority of the world who aren't from a specific area :P

A lot of man utd fans argue that we are a team in transition and a young team, which if you want to talk about look at the other thread

I think its because Fergie has failed to buy a new midfield, when its quite clearly the problem, that has so many fans angry. We have been in transition too long imo, and its probably going to be three years without the premiership unless Arsenal win or draw this weekend. He also said in the summer he was going to buy an experienced player in the middle, which got the fans hopes up, and then he didn't.
He has said the same thing for this january, so hopefully it'll work out.

p.s.
The one positive I have from being knocked out of the CL, is that we will buy whatever the best midfielder is, and we won't use fergie's mantra of only buying non cup tied people.

Hobart

I also think that Venger recognises the importance of a strong European run, as opposed to another winning League campaign. His youngsters also seem to be delivering for him, while his older "charges" are performing week in and week out. This cannot be said for the players at united. Yesterdays performance should be an indicator of that.

Also your "facts" on Liverpool are wrong Muppet. They were as succesful (it could be argued even more so) in the 70's, as they were in the 80's.

Royale with Cheese

PHB wrote:

Just like the majority of the world who aren't from a specific area :P

Yeah I'm not having a go, it's bound to happen. With my generation it was United, these people aren't going to be particularly loyal when all they're used to is winning. I hope to god there aren't loads of little Chelsea fans running around soon.

PHB

There will be, but thats alright.

Little chelsea fans are going to be running around, and thats fine.
The united fans who followed them as kids and stuck with them till now, are unlikely to move along.
The people that you have the problem with are the teenagers/adults who used to be united fans, and are now chelsea fans. and I have a problem with them aswell

Uniteds fan base has grown up to mid twenties, so the glory years supporters who started supporting as kids, are hooked by now :P

colster

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Maybe the have more intelligence than United fans? Maybe in the long run Arsenal are in a far better position than Manchested United? I fail to see how sacking Wenger can do any good for Arsenal. No offence but with United you do get those glory supporters who just started supporting whoever was winning at the time when they were growing up. These people aren't going to be particularly loyal, but I think Ferguson should leave at the end of the year, that's fairly obvious.

Don't think so. It's not a sudden thing. United have been in decline for the last few years. It hasn't just started now. Ferguson has spent a lot of money in the last few years yet there haven't been many successes. His judgement seems to be flawed. Kleberson, Forlan, Djemba-Djemba, Veron etc.
The question you have to ask is how can it be that after spending all that money that United have gone from having one of the best midfield in Europe to one that's arguably not the in the top 5 in the Premiership?
With all the money that he had at his disposal how did that happen? Who was to blame?
It's getting to that stage now that United need to replace all 4 positions in midfield.

mchurl

i think the united fans are justified with being upset with ferguson. He recently has spent a lot of the clubs money on poor players such as djemba-djemba and kleberson and even the young players coming through such as fletcher and o'shea aren't that great. The cl exit as well was shockingly bad in what i would consider to have been the second weakest group. ( behind arsenal's)

On the other hand arsenal haven't went out and bought useless players. Wenger has acted wisely in the transfer market( cesc for example) and they have got a lot of quality youngsters coming through. They qualified easily in the cl and they are seeded for the draw. Admittedly they havent been as good in the league but they have a 100% home record and they were missing Henry for a large chunk of the season. They have a new stadium to look forward to and imo have a bright future ahead of them.

There is no need for change at arsenal while at united i think it is better for fergie to leave on his own accord at the end of the season rather than being pushed by glazer.

colster

mchurl wrote:

i think the united fans are justified with being upset with ferguson. He recently has spent a lot of the clubs money on poor players such as djemba-djemba and kleberson and even the young players coming through such as fletcher and o'shea aren't that great. The cl exit as well was shockingly bad in what i would consider to have been the second weakest group. ( behind arsenal's)

On the other hand arsenal haven't went out and bought useless players. Wenger has acted wisely in the transfer market( cesc for example) and they have got a lot of quality youngsters coming through. They qualified easily in the cl and they are seeded for the draw. Admittedly they havent been as good in the league but they have a 100% home record and they were missing Henry for a large chunk of the season. They have a new stadium to look forward to and imo have a bright future ahead of them.

There is no need for change at arsenal while at united i think it is better for fergie to leave on his own accord at the end of the season rather than being pushed by glazer.

Totally agree. Wenger has done an excellent job at Arsenal.

gracehopper

The Muppet wrote:

There is a selection of man United fans who want to get rid of Fergie. These fans appear to think that he has turned into a manager incapable of identifying and rectifying united obvious problems.

"Obvious problem" = Darren Fletcher, fergie thinks he's one for the future, LOL

I am by no means a glory hunter and i'm not going to apologise for wanting the club i have supported all my life to continue achieving, United's problems arent new, Arsenal's are new, Do you think if Arsenal get knocked out in the next round of the CL and finish in the're current position this year that the fans will be happy?? i seriously doubt it, Arsenal and United are both muck at the moment and i'm annoyed at the atitude and calibre of what Fergie calls the nucleas of his third great team, the rout at arsenal has begun, United's has been happening slowly over the last few years, the comparisons between clubs could continue and be judged by identifying the errors both managers have made, some people could disagree with me here but i make it about 4-1 to fergie:

ERRORS:
Fergie: Selling Beckham,Selling Stam, Bringing in Quieroz, Getting rid of Keane
Wenger: Selling Viera

i havent even mentioned transfers in because i feel that both managers were unlucky with some of the players they brought to their respective clubs.

The Rooster

The Muppet wrote:

So to conclude a question. Are the Arsenal Fans being niave by not calling for Wengers head or do United have a vociferous selection of the most disloyal fickle supporters with the shortest memories in footballing history?

This is a big generalisation but I think it helps answer the question:
- United fans have higher expectations than Arsenal fans, even though both squads are about even. At the start of the season United fans (generalisation) would have expected their team to win (or at the very least to come very close to winning) the league or the champions league. Arsenal fans expect to finish in the top 3 and to have a good cup run or two. So United have failed while Arsenal are still on course.

But if Arsenal are still outside the top 4 when they go out of the Champions League, then tougher questions will be asked - though it is still hard to imagine any Arsenal fan wanting rid of Wenger.

colster

The Rooster wrote:

This is a big generalisation but I think it helps answer the question:
- United fans have higher expectations than Arsenal fans, even though both squads are about even. At the start of the season United fans (generalisation) would have expected their team to win (or at the very least to come very close to winning) the league or the champions league. Arsenal fans expect to finish in the top 3 and to have a good cup run or two. So United have failed while Arsenal are still on course.

But if Arsenal are still outside the top 4 when they go out of the Champions League, then tougher questions will be asked - though it is still hard to imagine any Arsenal fan wanting rid of Wenger.

I don't think that's right. Arsenal still have a very good squad of players and a good crop of youngsters coming through. They haven't replaced Vieira or Edu yet. If they get 1 combative CM then I think they'll be back. It's only a couple of years since they went through the season unbeaten. I think their fans know this and are not panicing.

United on the other hand have been in decline for a number of years. Ferguson has let good players go and not replace them with quality. The midfield is a great example. They had one of the best midfields in Europe only 4/5 years ago. Ferguson has spent millions. They now have a midfield that's probably not in the best 5 in the Premiership.

Atlas_IRL

colster wrote:

United on the other hand have been in decline for a number of years. Ferguson has let good players go and not replace them with quality. The midfield is a great example. They had one of the best midfields in Europe only 4/5 years ago. Ferguson has spent millions. They now have a midfield that's probably not in the best 5 in the Premiership.

Ye very true Giggs and scholes used to get 10-20 goals a season Beckham too and he used to get loads of assists Keane was amazing then and they had that never losing spirit as well

That is all gone the midfield is rubbish now and the spirit is gone it is goin to take a while to replace it...

I still think utd can attract the cream of Europe but not as much as they used to.. they can afford to pay them big wages that other big clubs might not...

They need goal scorers in mid field even Liverpool are looking better at the moment a midfield with goalscorers a good ballwinner and a solid defence same could be said about Chelsea..
United have a much better strike force though than these teams same as Arsenal..

The premiership was screaming out for more competiveness when United and Arsenal were dominating now there are 4 teams that could win it hopefully Chelsea dont win it every year and it'll get exciting like La Liga and Seria A were you get different winners nearly every year..

growler

I think that Arsenal fans know they have a lot more to worry about than just the Manager. The loss of Viera has had a huge impact on the team and their results, many suspect that Va Va Voom will be off to pastures new at the end of this season, many also think that Cole has proven his heart is not in it after the Chelsea saga, Van Persie / Cygan / Pires/ Toure can go to sleep at the most inopportune times , Bergkamp will be given his golden wheelchair shortly, and many also worry that the attitude of the team in Prem games is to get despondant and give up when they go behind , maybe because they know they can't win the legue anyway. This season has shown just how much they rely on Henry to get them out of troubles, you just never know which Henry will turn up on the day.

The manager is the least of their problems, they need cash / players to continue to challenge in the premiership otherwise they'll be playing in a half empty shiny new stadium in a few years.

Aquos76

I am one of those that is constantly calling for Fergies head and I am probably one of the ones who muppet is directly referring to. My reasons are plain and simple. Since we won the CL in 99, we have not gotten past the second round of the CL and this season we finished bottom of probably one of the easiest group after Arsenal's group. Who has fergie bought to replace Roy Keane and David Beckham. We always knew that Keano was going this season, one way or another, Ronaldo was brought in to replace Becks and so far he is hot and cold, mind you I have every faith in him. Where do I start with regards to those midfield flops he brought in Veron, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson. How much did we lose on all of these.

These are the reason as to why I was to see Fergie retire. He has had an outstanding 19 years at OT and we owe him everything but all good thing have to come to an end and Fergies have just ended IMO.

AARRRGH

PHB wrote:

The people that you have the problem with are the teenagers/adults who used to be united fans, and are now chelsea fans.

I only knew one Chelsea supporter as a teenager. I'm 27 now.

Please don't tell me there are tons of Chelsea supporters now?

That is depressing. I do not trust people who change the team they support (says a lot about their character.)

For the record, I'm an Arsenal fan. Have supported them since the days people would spit on me for supporting them (had to actually stop wearing my Arsenal jersey.)

Wenger is a good manager. The team are in transition. Watch them next year. He's also very likeable.

The Rooster

colster wrote:

I don't think that's right. Arsenal still have a very good squad of players and a good crop of youngsters coming through. They haven't replaced Vieira or Edu yet. If they get 1 combative CM then I think they'll be back. It's only a couple of years since they went through the season unbeaten. I think their fans know this and are not panicing.

United on the other hand have been in decline for a number of years. Ferguson has let good players go and not replace them with quality. The midfield is a great example. They had one of the best midfields in Europe only 4/5 years ago. Ferguson has spent millions. They now have a midfield that's probably not in the best 5 in the Premiership.

Still, if Arsenal were playing MU next week, I'd expect MU to at least break even in midfield.

I think its only a fan's perspective to say "Arsenal still have a very good squad of players and a good crop of youngsters coming through", while "United on the other hand have been in decline for a number of years". IMO there's been little or nothing between the sides for 3 or 4 years, and as it happens with both teams losing their most influnetial midfielder and neither manager replacing him yet, they're both still about even. Arsenal fans do seem to have more faith that Wenger will get it right in the future whereas United fans are split over whether Ferguson can do it. But IMO even one simple signing, say buy Gravesen to take Smith's place, and instantly United are a better team than Arsenal. And United still have more spending power and pulling power so if Madrid agree a fee for Gravesen with both Arsenal and ManU, he's probably 70% likely to choose MU.

TheMonster

dublindude wrote:

He's also very likeable.

I hope you are being sarcastic

growler

dublindude wrote:

He's also very likeable.

ah now, come on, be serious for a minute.

AARRRGH

growler wrote:

ah now, come on, be serious for a minute.

LOL! I am. I think Wenger is very likeable. He doesn't have the dilussions (sp?) of Ferguson or the ridiculous arrogance of Mourinho.

He at least tries to be reasonable.

TheMonster

dublindude wrote:

LOL! I am. I think Wenger is very likeable. He doesn't have the dilussions (sp?) of Ferguson or the ridiculous arrogance of Mourinho.

He at least tries to be reasonable.

I hope you are drunk!!:rolleyes:

AARRRGH

TheMonster wrote:

I hope you are drunk!!:rolleyes:

I hope you're only pretending to be an idiot :rolleyes:

growler

dublindude wrote:

LOL! I am. I think Wenger is very likeable. He doesn't have the dilussions (sp?) of Ferguson or the ridiculous arrogance of Mourinho.

He at least tries to be reasonable.

if by reasonable you mean being biased, regularly blind, whinging and unwilling to accept any game that Arsenal lose as being their fault rather than that of the referee / ball boys / balls / opposition scoring / opposition playing better / not getting a penalty for diving / not getting a penalty for a better dive soon afterwards etc. then I agree with you.

However if you had a poll of likeable managers in the premiership he wouldn't be in the top 19.

colster

The Rooster wrote:

Still, if Arsenal were playing MU next week, I'd expect MU to at least break even in midfield.

I think its only a fan's perspective to say "Arsenal still have a very good squad of players and a good crop of youngsters coming through", while "United on the other hand have been in decline for a number of years". IMO there's been little or nothing between the sides for 3 or 4 years, and as it happens with both teams losing their most influnetial midfielder and neither manager replacing him yet, they're both still about even. Arsenal fans do seem to have more faith that Wenger will get it right in the future whereas United fans are split over whether Ferguson can do it. But IMO even one simple signing, say buy Gravesen to take Smith's place, and instantly United are a better team than Arsenal. And United still have more spending power and pulling power so if Madrid agree a fee for Gravesen with both Arsenal and ManU, he's probably 70% likely to choose MU.

Arsenal are still playing some fantastic football. It's only 2 seasons since they won the Premiership unbeaten. They have only lost Vieira and Edu since then. IMO they only need 1/2 players. If I was an Arsenal fan then I wouldn't be too worried.

As a United fan I'm very worried. United's main problem is in midfield and defence. The central midfield has been a looming problem for a number of years. They've needed "one simple signing" for the last few years. And yet Veron, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba have come and gone losing money on the way while Neville, Butt and Keane have been allowed to leave. Would United be in this mess if all 3 had stayed? They are all better than Fletcher thats for sure.
That's left United with 3 recognised central midfielders Smith, Fletcher and Scholes.
Ferguson alone has to take responsibility for that mess. Scholes and Giggs are going to need replacing soon. Ronaldo, Fletcher, Miller and Park are not of the same quality. Ronaldo flatters to deceive. He has no end product and is not a team player.

TheMonster

dublindude wrote:

I hope you're only pretending to be an idiot :rolleyes:

No need to get personal - most hard core Arsenal fans wouldn't say that about Wenger.

gracehopper

growler wrote:

if by reasonable you mean being biased, regularly blind, whinging and unwilling to accept any game that Arsenal lose as being their fault rather than that of the referee / ball boys / balls / opposition scoring / opposition playing better / not getting a penalty for diving / not getting a penalty for a better dive soon afterwards etc. then I agree with you.

However if you had a poll of likeable managers in the premiership he wouldn't be in the top 19.

Gas, i agree with nearly all of this except the last bit i think its fair to say nobody likes Graeme Souness not even the newcastle fans, at least the Asrenal fans like Wenger

Lemlin

Originally posted by colster
That's left United with 3 recognised central midfielders Smith, Fletcher and Scholes.

When exactly did Alan Smith become a recognised midfielder? I'd still see him as a striker playing out of position, and it often shows in his performances.

Gas, i agree with nearly all of this except the last bit i think its fair to say nobody likes Graeme Souness not even the newcastle fans, at least the Asrenal fans like Wenger

Talk to Jivin Turkey. The one fan of Souness I've managed to find.

AARRRGH

TheMonster wrote:

No need to get personal - most hard core Arsenal fans wouldn't say that about Wenger.

LOL! You started it

Anyway...

When I said dilusional I meant he doesn't think he is some kind of god, or macho man, or whatever it is Ferguson/Mourinho think they are.

colster

Lemlin wrote:

When exactly did Alan Smith become a recognised midfielder? I'd still see him as a striker playing out of position, and it often shows in his performances.

That's true . So United only have 2 recognised central midfielders in Fletcher and Scholes.

The Clown Man

I think Man Utd fans have to cope with seeing their team not reach the potential they have.

With big name players like Ronaldo, Rooney, VanN, Ferdinand, Scholes etc. you would expect the team to be a joy to watch. Problem is that you have Fletcher, O'Shea, Richardson, etc in there now who, in fairness, would have a tough time making the Everton first team. The team has gaping holes and absolutely no depth.

There should be quality football but there is not. It's clearly totally lacking.

For Arsenal however, supporters can at least see that the team is rebuilding with some real quality, albeit very young, players evident already. Viera left and Wenger did do his best to grab another "presence" orientated central midfielder but couldn't simply because just about everyone was in for that type of player last summer. Man U with Keano on the way out, Chelsea in for Gerrard and Essien, Real still need one, Barca wouldn't turn one down; Wenger didn't stand a chance.

In the mean time fans can be excited about Van Percie really coming into form, Fabregas impressing more and more, Senderos proving amazingly proficient for a 20yo, Hleb loking like one of the most suited signings of the year. Only thing they need is that Grounding presence in midfield. And I'm sure he'll find one. (As are all the Arsenal fans.)

What have Man U to look forward to but seeing Rooney surrounded by retards.

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

So to conclude a question. Are the Arsenal Fans being niave by not calling for Wengers head or do United have a vociferous selection of the most disloyal fickle supporters with the shortest memories in footballing history?

Do you really think the question is as clear cut as this? Or are you trying to get a rise out of United supporters you know will disagree with you?

I also don't think your comparisons with previous generations (cycles as you called them) are not as valid as they were back then. The demographics of football have changed very much since the 90s. The big clubs have got significantly bigger (in relative terms in comparison to their 70/80s counterparts) having been at the top of the pack for a while.

Can you really see United fall off the map á la Liverpool (or even Everton) during the 90s after successful 80s for both of those sides? The funds they have amassed over their glorious decade of success will ensure that this will never happen. They will always be able to afford the best managers in the league and the best players.

Back to your main point, IMO there is a reasonably big difference between United and Arsenal ATM.

Ferguson has been in his job for so long he is bound to go stale at some stage. The fact that the problems which have been identified by armchair pundits such as ourselves years ago still havn't been addressed is a possible indication that this may have happened already. United have only finished in the top two once in the last four years. They have progressed just once beyond the first knock-out stage in the CL in that time. If this was a club the size and with the recent history of United in any other league in the world the manager would have been sacked by now, twice.

Arsenal on the other hand, while may be worse off in the league, are still only five points off United. No league titles are given out in December and assorted other clichés. They are still in the CL, having topped their group, and have looked stronger in Europe in recent seasons particulary in comparison to their first few attempts at European conquests. The Arsenal board came out a few years ago and basically said that they could not compete with United financially, and hence the stadium plan got under way. It's almost complete. Arsenal also have money to spend in January from the Vieira sale and also a £20M kitty that Wenger used sparingly during the Summer. Can Ferguson be certain of funds in January? I wouldn't be so sure. Add to that Arsenal have some seriously exiting youth, who are actually performing and are not just "potentially" good players. Van Persie and Cesc are already at the level required.

Arsenal's are still challenging on the two most important fronts, so while Chelsea appear to have the PL sewn up Arsenal could still lift the biggest prize in club football. IMO if Ferguson wants to retain his job he is going to have to lift the league title, something that I can't see happening to be honest, but certainly not impossible. If it doesn't happen though, you have to look at a record of one league in five years, which is just not good enough for a club United's size, particularly added to poor and worsening European campaigns.

jank

he's probably 70% likely to choose MU

Do you know him?

I agree with Jivin that Fergie will probably be given no money to spend in January.

I feel sorry for Cesc. He is expected to make the tackles and graft aswell as make those sublime through balls we all know he can do.
Wenger needs to find a future partner for him.

Hell just buy big duncan and give him 50 grand a week to kick a few people up the ass. Thats the only thing arsenal need, where as Utd need a whole new Midfiled and a CB and few better players then John O'Pie

Necronomicon

Thomas Graveson has been linked a lot with United, surprised he hasn't been linked much with Arsenal, he's just the kind of grafter they need. He can also pass a ball or two.

jank

Necromomicon wrote:

Thomas Graveson has been linked a lot with United, surprised he hasn't been linked much with Arsenal, he's just the kind of grafter they need. He can also pass a ball or two.

Thing is. After the comfortable life of Madrid would he settle to go back up the North of England. London seems to be the big draw in the UK now.

Big risk for him too. Fergie may be out in 6 months time and the incoming manager may get rid of him. Wenger will be there for a few years yet.

Maniche to Arsenal, Gravesan to Utd??

We shall see

PHB

I agree with Jivin that Fergie will probably be given no money to spend in January.

Why?
Do people think Glazier is an idiot, the self-made billionaire idiot.
He has promised funds, and realises that funds are required to build up the team.
Money is there, its jsut whether Fergie can indentify someone who can change things

The Rooster

PHB wrote:

Why?
Do people think Glazier is an idiot, the self-made billionaire idiot.
He has promised funds, and realises that funds are required to build up the team.
Money is there, its jsut whether Fergie can indentify someone who can change things

If he's decided to give Ferguson another few years, then he will make money available in January if Ferguson identifies "must have" players. But if Ferguson is going in the summer (the media consensus is that he will go - though of course thats all specualtion), then it would be silly to allow Ferguson to make big signings, then have a new manager come in who potentially doesnt like Ferguson's signings and definitely wants to put his own stamp on the team and bring in his own players.

I think the very most Ferguson can hope for is £5m, but its more likely to be around £3m - the current squad are still good enough to come in the top 4 in the league and go far in a cup, so there's not a huge need for money to be spent in January, if United accept that the league is gone.

Lemlin wrote:

Talk to Jivin Turkey. The one fan of Souness I've managed to find.

The greatest midfielder to play league soccer in Britain in the last 30 years - what's not to like?

gracehopper

The Rooster wrote:

If he's decided to give Ferguson another few years, then he will make money available in January if Ferguson identifies "must have" players. But if Ferguson is going in the summer (the media consensus is that he will go - though of course thats all specualtion), then it would be silly to allow Ferguson to make big signings, then have a new manager come in who potentially doesnt like Ferguson's signings and definitely wants to put his own stamp on the team and bring in his own players.

I think the very most Ferguson can hope for is £5m, but its more likely to be around £3m - the current squad are still good enough to come in the top 4 in the league and go far in a cup, so there's not a huge need for money to be spent in January, if United accept that the league is gone.


The greatest midfielder to play league soccer in Britain in the last 30 years - what's not to like?

So somebody actually likes Graeme Souness,your defo not a Newcastle fan anyway then, I take back what i said, your 1 vote would bring souness ahead of Wenger in the likeable managers league

The Rooster

gracehopper wrote:

So somebody actually likes Graeme Souness,your defo not a Newcastle fan anyway then, I take back what i said, your 1 vote would bring souness ahead of Wenger in the likeable managers league

I'd have Ferguson and Moyes below Wenger in my personal dislikeable manager's table. Moyes would be a purely Liverpool thing because (especially in his first year or 18 months) he said things to deliberately antagonise Liverpool fans to make him more popular with Everton fans - and I fell right into his trap . I'd have thought most neutrals would prefer Wenger to Ferguson, but maybe its just me.

Villain

Sacking Wenger would be the biggest mistake Arsenal could make, they have spent a vast ammount of money on a new stadium and still have one of the top 3 squads in the PL.

gracehopper

The Rooster wrote:

I'd have Ferguson and Moyes below Wenger in my personal dislikeable manager's table. Moyes would be a purely Liverpool thing because (especially in his first year or 18 months) he said things to deliberately antagonise Liverpool fans to make him more popular with Everton fans - and I fell right into his trap . I'd have thought most neutrals would prefer Wenger to Ferguson, but maybe its just me.

nah i was joking, i suspect ferguson would be near enough to bottom of the likeable managers league for non-United fans. I would concede that wenger is a brilliant coach and has turned Arsenal into an attractive club but i dont like him, he moans and moans and of late he has been a lot worse than Ferguson who i think has mellowed a little too much in recent years. Its not that Arsenal are archrivals of MU and therefore i dislike Wenger, i just dont like his atitude, the newcastle game for example he mentioned Shearer being too Physical, thats a load of crap IMO and just an excuse to cover up that his team bottled it on the day, its statements like this that annoy me about Wenger, i liked Shearer's comment about all the players putting in a good shift, i'd say that freaked Wenger out.

PHB

What are you basing 3-5 million on?
If United are going to sack Fergie, he will get no money, maybe so. But if that happens, Fergie will know it, and if he knows he is going to be fired, I doubt very much he'll stick around waiting for it to happen.

Since the Glaziers have never given any indication they were going to sack Fergie, and their considering their previous activites with Tampa Bay, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that they are going to sack Fergie.
Since he didn't spend any of the 30 million, which was made availible just like Wenger, over the summer, he has money to spend.
Also since he specifically said he intends to bring in a couple more players in January, it would suggest he intends to, ya know, bring in a couple more players in january.

Why he wouldn't buy in January cause the league is over is a silly reason. If he identifies someone who will benefit the team, he will sign them, and to suggest he won't because there is no money is just ignoring any evidence to the contary

gandalf

As an Arsenal fan I had already written this season off in the League as a rebuilding one. The two areas I would like to see sorted is a central defender to replace Cygan and a thug in midfield to put the tackles in and not allow the team be bullied around like the Game against Bolton. The man that I would have liked to have seen signed was Van Bommel.

As regards asking for Wengers head, why? I can see the team rebuilding with some real quality, stability from the top, a new stadium, a manager who knows what he is doing. I realise in football that form can take a downturn but you don't kick out the best manager you have had in years over a few games.

BaZmO*

gandalf wrote:

I realise in football that form can take a downturn but you don't kick out the best manager you have had in years over a few games.

But do you kick him out if there is a longstanding downward turn in form?

B.

The Muppet

BaZmO* wrote:

But do you kick him out if there is a longstanding downward turn in form?

B.

As the league currently stands whic teams form dipped has dipped the most over the past year or two United or Arsenal?

The double standards displayed in replies to this thread are amusing. I posted this exact same topic on another general football forum and the replies there were so different to the ones here, The consensus there was that United and Arsenal would both be silly to get rid of managers with such a proven track record. Why does it appear that there are double standards at play here?

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

As the league currently stands whic teams form dipped has dipped the most over the past year or two United or Arsenal?

No places have yet been set in stone this year.

I'm surprised that you would even consider that an Arsenal fan would think about sacking Wenger because they are currently sixth 15 games into the season. But as I said, I think your posting of this topic is more to rile the United fans that don't agree with your stance on AF than any actual indication of your belief on the state of play at Arsenal.

Arsenal are currently not doing well in the league. That said there are only 15 games gone. Over the past two years Arsenal have achieved a record breaking season and also finished second last year with a points/GD tally that would have won them the league in previous years.

United have finished third twice in the last two years, and are third again.

So while United may not have dipped, they are not doing as well as Arsenal have in the last two years, and not nearly good enough for a side their size.

The Muppet wrote:

The double standards displayed in replies to this thread are amusing.

There is no double standards. United may have not got any worse, but they havn't done better than third, and don't exactly look like they have any higher completely sewn up at this stage this year, add to that early CL elimination and it's easy to see why fans may be calling for someone to freshen things up.

Arsenal are only two years off a record breaking season, and did enough last year to win the league if it weren't for Chelsea smashing the highest ever number of points achieved in a season. They topped a CL group, and while their league form is indifferent, they are still in contention for second at the very least.

The Muppet wrote:

I posted this exact same topic on another general football forum and the replies there were so different to the ones here, The consensus there was that United and Arsenal would both be silly to get rid of managers with such a proven track record. Why does it appear that there are double standards at play here?

Really I'm very shocked. It's plain for anyone to see.

Got a link? I'd love to have another forum to browse myself anyway.

The Rooster

PHB wrote:

What are you basing 3-5 million on?
If United are going to sack Fergie, he will get no money, maybe so. But if that happens, Fergie will know it, and if he knows he is going to be fired, I doubt very much he'll stick around waiting for it to happen.

Since the Glaziers have never given any indication they were going to sack Fergie, and their considering their previous activites with Tampa Bay, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that they are going to sack Fergie.
Since he didn't spend any of the 30 million, which was made availible just like Wenger, over the summer, he has money to spend.
Also since he specifically said he intends to bring in a couple more players in January, it would suggest he intends to, ya know, bring in a couple more players in january.

Why he wouldn't buy in January cause the league is over is a silly reason. If he identifies someone who will benefit the team, he will sign them, and to suggest he won't because there is no money is just ignoring any evidence to the contary

To give Ferguson £8-£10m in January would be a huge vote of confidence and a gamble that he will get on top of things again. I cannot see the Glaziers doing that. Of course the Glaziers "have never given any indication they were going to sack Fergie" - it would be very naive to think they would give such an indication.

My guess is that no decision has been made on who the manager will be next year (it is an enormously difficult decision to make) - and in such circumstances it would be foolish to give the current man 10m now, if you're not sure he'll be there in 6 months. I wonder whether the Glaziers will make the decision alone or if they've some English soccer person advising them. According to the Irish Times earlier this week, the Glaziers have been "ruthless" in the past with various coaches at Buccs, but I wouldnt have a clue whether that's true or not.

growler

I'd have expected the Glaziers to give Fergie enough money to ensure CL qualification for next season. Fergie will hve spelt out what he needs to achieve this and if the Glaziers do not make some investments over christmas then they just leave a bigger mountain to climb with less assured revenue for 2006/7.

It makes more sense for them to make cash available for players now regardless of the future of Ferguson. £3m / 5m would be a joke.