Loyalist groups to march in Dublin

deisedevil

Elmo wrote:

I think you will find that they don't mind being called Irish but they beleive themselfs to be British.

From what I understand a really unionist would like a United Ireland ruled by London.

LOVE ULSTER ALL NINE.

No i didn't find that! They do mind being called Irish. I asked a no. of them if they would regard themselves as Irish and they said they regard themselves as British only. I said should you not be Irish British, they said, British only! Not the same for all of them of course but the LoveUlster members by and large seem to want nothing Irish to be associated with them whatsoever.

By the way, have a look at this. It's an Orange Order march they are after, not a Protest Parade. http://loveulster.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=54478#54478

the_menace

Elmo wrote:

Because unlike you we many of us don't think of them as foreigners.

But they are. And they aren't paying for their escapade. As much as I would like to think this protest had good intentions, I can't help but feel that it'll turn nasty. History has certainly proven that this is a likely outcome.

Elmo wrote:

It is important that we stand up to make sure that that won't happen again.

I agree entirely. But there are ways to do it.

Elmo wrote:

Perhaps you should help with their protest so.

Like I say, if it's a well-intended, peaceful march then that's a plus. If they pay for it themselves then they'll really have my respect. Their intention to keep Ireland separated they have my full backing on.

Elmo

They do mind being called Irish.

Well that shows their igornance. I did go on to that site but have refused to look at the igornant comments. I would just get annoyed. I am annoyed by some of the comments on this thread.

Wether they like it or not they are Irish. British if they want and then Irish. Just in the same way the English are English, the Scotish are Scotish and the Welsh are Welsh. The Scot and the welsh give out when they are called English, just as much as us in Ireland.

My question to them would be why? I honestly don't see the problem with being Irish. Do they feel inferior or something.

Again

LOVE ULSTER ALL NINE

Elmo

Their intention to keep Ireland separated they have my full backing on.

Why?

I don't understand that, I feel that that is a case of Middel class Ireland turn their backs on what happened in the north.

I have said this on boards on several occasions.

If the unionist had wanted to keep Northern Ireland, not Ulster, separate and a peaceful part of the UK, then they would have shown their fellow Northern Irish Women, men and children the respect that they deserve.

If they had given that respect then NI would have just continued on as it was.

The unionist that ruled of NI, ran propaganda to make sure the working classes of NI Protestants and Catholics would always fight and would always hate.

You must threat all citizen with respect. They did not do that.

again

LOVE ULSTER, ALL NINE

Elmo

If they pay for it themselves then they'll really have my respect.

How will a couple of unionist actually cost us any money.

They will prob go and do some shopping.

LOVE ULSTER, ALL NINE

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

Read what I said again without highlighting the parts that suit you. Oh, and feel free to share your opinions with us at any time rather than trolling and talking absolute rubbish. As far as I'm concerned, any person who feels that the citizens of one country should be allowed to organise protests in another en masse is a complete idiot. So I'd really like to hear some more tangible arguments from you regarding why we should foot the bill for this - other than "get a clue, it won't cost us much" or such moronic tripe. Either that, or pipe down.

Please explain your comments:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is. As much as I like the idea in theory, I don't want to share my country with these people. Leave them up North and let them live their sad, bitter, bigotted lives and let us get on with being one of the strongest economies on earth. Any peaceful people on either side of the religious divide in Ulster that want to come down and live in peace are more than welcome.

Do you think these comments are acceptable? Your credibility has gone. It shows you were lying about your concerns for the 'taxpayer' paying for the march. There is a deeper issue here isn't there? Address it.

Dave McG wrote:

This is getting f*cking ridiculous.

What's your problem?

Dave McG wrote:

It's quite clear that you don't know what you're talking about MNG, and you are resorting to silly semantics cos you don't want to admit defeat.

LOL. Either explain yourself or your comments mean nothing.

Dave McG wrote:

Just take a step back, you're out of your depth.

LOL. Try backing up your claims with facts. Then I won't treat your comments with contempt.:)

Freelancer wrote:

Furthermore you are engaging in semantic nitpicking (ie "how would they drain our resources, we're doing alright financialy" clearly the poster meant "a drain" not completely drain)

You can't speak for others. Why you want to is anybody's guess...

Freelancer wrote:

Theres something deeply troubling about someone who has to advertise that they are a "nice guy" while acting in such a boorish conscending and arrogant manner.

Leave the personal stuff aside. It belittles you.

Freelancer wrote:

I think Mr Nice guy's argument these people are part of the Irish nation, is infantile, not least because the kind of person who'll travel to another country to protest that they'll never be part of such a country would take offense at his logic.

A country can be a nation. Jesus wept.

the_menace wrote:

Do I hope the march passes peacefully? Yes.

If that's the case, why did you say in your first post on this thread:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence.

Your credibility is on the line here mate.

the_menace wrote:

But they are(foreigners).

They're not. They are Irish and part of the Irish nation.

the_menace

Notice the way you're disagreeing with everyone there Mr. Nice Guy? Maybe it's you

Freelancer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You can't speak for others. Why you want to is anybody's guess...

Glib and utterly pointless, like I said that appears to be the level you work best at. It's quiet clear to anyone who can read what the poster meant, and childish nitpicking over semantics appears to be all you're capable of.

Leave the personal stuff aside. It belittles you.

In the eyes of whom? In the space of one breath you tell me I can't speak for others, now you're telling I make myself look small in the eyes of others.

Like I said, telling people they're "struggling" or their "credibility is on the line" while nitpicking tiny points, isn't debating in any way shape or form, and brings little of merit to the discussion.

A country can be a nation. Jesus wept.

What is this geography for dummies? Okay leaving aside your insistence that your definition of what is or isn't a country is your opinion and not an irefutable fact, lets try and find some common ground. These people coming here are unionists, they are coming here to what? They feel British not Irish, because they want to remain part of the UK. Therefore this is a foreign country in their eyes.

Oh and a staggering piece of hyprocrisy on your part. "Jesus wept" implying my opinion is infantile or stupid or ignorant, and yet again in the space of a breath you'd told me to leave the personal stuff aside. Yet again your arrogant demand to adjudicate the tone and direction of the thread. Oh I'm sure you'll say something glib and trite about attacking the argument not the posters but again more semantic quibbling.

Mr Nice Guy, you are the direct inversion of your name.

They're not. They are Irish and part of the Irish nation.

You may feel that, I suggest you head into a pub in Larne next July and suggest a hearty chorus of a "nation once again", and then tell the assembled Orange Lodge what nationality you think they are. You're recieve a "firm" rebuttal, and firmer head butt.

Whether you feel they are Irish or not, they don't have Irish currency, have a different set of laws, and don't consider themselves Irish.

the_menace wrote:

I appreciate your objectivity but you can't really compare South Korean farmers or Falun-gong praticioners with Loyalists. Especially considering fairly recent history and the fact that certain significantly sized sections of their society are likely to hijack this protest and try to provoke violence or at least insolence/agitation.

Oh come on are you seriously trying to suggest that ever WTO summit has passed off peacefully. Ever heard of the blac block? The suggestion that WTO protests should be allowed, but Orange Order Marchs shouldn't because of the violence of the latter is just funny.

Not only that but the almost exclusive majority or marchers won't be citizens of the Republic, unlike the WTO (which is a global issue anyway - member cities volunteer to hold the conference).

Your last point is valid, however people travel to these foreign countries because they object to WTO's behaviour and how it affects them and others. The unionists are coming here because they object to the Irish Government's "interference" in their life and how it affects them.

Theres pretty strong parallels there.

Elmo

Your last point is valid, however people travel to these foreign countries because they object to WTO's behaviour and how it affects them and others. The unionists are coming here because they object to the Irish Government's "interference" in their life and how it affects them.

It is not like the Irish Army have Barracks up over A set of Unionist Flats.

They just don't want to move forward or to threat people with respect.

That's all you need to do. RESPECT.

Mr.Nice Guy

Freelancer wrote:

Glib and utterly pointless, like I said that appears to be the level you work best at. It's quiet clear to anyone who can read what the poster meant, and childish nitpicking over semantics appears to be all you're capable of.

If nitpicking was all I was capable of, I'd point out you used the word 'quiet' instead of 'quite' however I will also point out to you that you entered yourself into a discussion without anything worthwhile to contribute.

Freelancer wrote:

In the eyes of whom? In the space of one breath you tell me I can't speak for others, now you're telling I make myself look small in the eyes of others.

Those who resort to personal insults have lost the argument.:)

Freelancer wrote:

Like I said, telling people they're "struggling" or their "credibility is on the line" while nitpicking tiny points, isn't debating in any way shape or form, and brings little of merit to the discussion.

In the eyes of whom? In the space of one breath you tell me I'm not debating, now you're telling me I'm not bringing anything to the discussion.

Freelancer wrote:

What is this geography for dummies?

Ooh more insults. Yeah you're really qualified to talk about the merits of good debate...

Freelancer wrote:

Okay leaving aside your insistence that your definition of what is or isn't a country is your opinion and not an irefutable fact...

Oxford English Dictionary - 'country': "a nation or State; the land it occupies".

Is the dictionary wrong? Do tell us.

Freelancer wrote:

These people coming here are unionists, they are coming here to what?

As I understand it, to protest about concessions to Sinn Féin such as with the recent OTR legislation.

Freelancer wrote:

They feel British not Irish, because they want to remain part of the UK.

Uh-oh! Someone's a little uneducated on the subject! Don't worry, the nice guy of Boards is here to help you out, my uneducated friend. Here are the results of the 2004 NI Life and Times Survey:

Which of these best describes the way you think of yourself?

British 47%
Irish 27%
Ulster 3%
Northern irish 21%
Other (specify) 3%
(Don't know) 0

So it's far from a case of you're either British or Irish the way you think. This survey reveals that over one fifth of the population don't define themselves as 'British' or 'Irish'.

Things aren't as simplistic as you think buddy.

Freelancer wrote:

Therefore this is a foreign country in their eyes.

Wrong! See above! Dear oh dear...

Freelancer wrote:

Oh and a staggering piece of hyprocrisy on your part. "Jesus wept" implying my opinion is infantile or stupid or ignorant, and yet again in the space of a breath you'd told me to leave the personal stuff aside.

Saying 'Jesus wept' is not a personal insult. Are you for real man?

Freelancer wrote:

Yet again your arrogant demand to adjudicate the tone and direction of the thread.

What are you talking about?

Freelancer wrote:

Mr Nice Guy, you are the direct inversion of your name.

Not quite. I'm a he not a she.;)

Freelancer wrote:

You may feel that, I suggest you head into a pub in Larne next July and suggest a hearty chorus of a "nation once again", and then tell the assembled Orange Lodge what nationality you think they are. You're recieve a "firm" rebuttal, and firmer head butt.

But sure identity is a complex thing. You could go to a pub in parts of Glasgow and suggest a chorus of God Save The Queen and be met with a similar response.

Your arguments are too simplistic. They boil down to Irish or British, green or orange. Sadly for you, things are alot more complex.

Freelancer wrote:

Whether you feel they are Irish or not, they don't have Irish currency,

Currency?! LOL!!! So the fact I have the same currency as people in France and Germany means they're my compatriots?! You sir are surely taking the p*ss at this stage? LOL!

Freelancer wrote:

...have a different set of laws,

But they have a different set of laws to Britain! Soon there will be a ban on smoking in the North before Britain. Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?

Freelancer wrote:

...and don't consider themselves Irish.

That's far from certain. They might consider themselves Northern Irish.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about Freelancer. You're really struggling and I feel for you. Read alot more on the issues in Northern Ireland and then get back to me. Remember mate, knowledge is power. Good luck.;)

the_menace wrote:

Notice the way you're disagreeing with everyone there Mr. Nice Guy?

I notice your failure (or is it fear?) to answer the question I posed to you. Here it is again:

Please explain your comments:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is. As much as I like the idea in theory, I don't want to share my country with these people. Leave them up North and let them live their sad, bitter, bigotted lives and let us get on with being one of the strongest economies on earth. Any peaceful people on either side of the religious divide in Ulster that want to come down and live in peace are more than welcome.

Do you think these comments are acceptable?

Answer the question or your credibility will be akin to your knowledge on these issues - non-existant.

Supercell

Has anyone heard if this is actually been allowed yet by the Garda Commissionar orwhoever in charge makes the decision.

I'd like to write to whoever is making this decision and Bertie to express my acute discomfort about this march, and also the fact that imho, to allow it, would be to spit on the memories of the men and women who gave their lives to make this country free from the very people that these Orange thugs represent.

What do you think these men might have thought about this march ?

Padraig Pearse
Thomas MacDonagh
Thomas Clarke
Joseph Plunkett
Edward Daly
Michael O’Hanrahan
William Pearse
Sean McBride
Con Colbert
Eamonn Ceannt
Michael Mallin
Sean Hueston
James Connolly
Sean McDermott

You cannot say that you are proud to be Irish and not respect these names and what they would have thought about this.

deisedevil

I have now been told by one of their members that the protest will not just be about the two issues they first said it was about(otr's and sinn fein's involvement in a government) It is now also about people protesting that they're britishness is fading away and their right to be british is being denied by our government. I asked countless times why there is a need to have the Orange Order marching with their orange parafanalia and drum's, bands, flutes etc. and the answers i have got range from that we should sit back and enjoy it(until some of the louts that go on these marches start a riot as they sometimes do is it?), that it is part of their culture and should be included(what has that got to do with a protest) and other stupid comments that show no satisfactory reason why the Orange Order are needed to accompany their protest! The whole thing is a sham. If they cannot stick to the issues they wish to protest about and not include the Orange Order then surely the gardai and government cannot allow this to go ahead. If it is given the go ahead, like Longfield said, i will be doing everything i can to get support to have it stopped.How that can be done i don't know, Longfield said he'd like to write letters to the Garda Commissionar or whoever in charge makes the decisions, might be a good idea to start there and also send him a copy of the threads in the LoveUlster members forum showing what they really want the protest march for and what it will really be about, a petition also. After all the Orange Order are an organisation that does not allow catholics into it and kicks out members who marry catholics or take part in a catholic ceremony, i'm not willing to then allow them to march through my capital! Bigots!
http://loveulster.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=54569#54569

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

If nitpicking was all I was capable of, I'd point out you used the word 'quiet' instead of 'quite' however I will also point out to you that you entered yourself into a discussion without anything worthwhile to contribute.



Those who resort to personal insults have lost the argument.:)



In the eyes of whom? In the space of one breath you tell me I'm not debating, now you're telling me I'm not bringing anything to the discussion.



Ooh more insults. Yeah you're really qualified to talk about the merits of good debate...



Oxford English Dictionary - 'country': "a nation or State; the land it occupies".

Is the dictionary wrong? Do tell us.



As I understand it, to protest about concessions to Sinn Féin such as with the recent OTR legislation.



Uh-oh! Someone's a little uneducated on the subject! Don't worry, the nice guy of Boards is here to help you out, my uneducated friend. Here are the results of the 2004 NI Life and Times Survey:



So it's far from a case of you're either British or Irish the way you think. This survey reveals that over one fifth of the population don't define themselves as 'British' or 'Irish'.

Things aren't as simplistic as you think buddy.



Wrong! See above! Dear oh dear...



Saying 'Jesus wept' is not a personal insult. Are you for real man?



What are you talking about?



Not quite. I'm a he not a she.;)



But sure identity is a complex thing. You could go to a pub in parts of Glasgow and suggest a chorus of God Save The Queen and be met with a similar response.

Your arguments are too simplistic. They boil down to Irish or British, green or orange. Sadly for you, things are alot more complex.



Currency?! LOL!!! So the fact I have the same currency as people in France and Germany means they're my compatriots?! You sir are surely taking the p*ss at this stage? LOL!



But they have a different set of laws to Britain! Soon there will be a ban on smoking in the North before Britain. Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?



That's far from certain. They might consider themselves Northern Irish.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about Freelancer. You're really struggling and I feel for you. Read alot more on the issues in Northern Ireland and then get back to me. Remember mate, knowledge is power. Good luck.;)



I notice your failure (or is it fear?) to answer the question I posed to you. Here it is again:

Please explain your comments:



Do you think these comments are acceptable?

Answer the question or your credibility will be akin to your knowledge on these issues - non-existant.

You sure like the sound of your own voice, don't you?

I stand by my slur :rolleyes: If they come down here and cause trouble, I hope they get the living crap kicked out of the. I don't want proven terrorists and thugs coming to my country and causing a mess. Nothing wrong with that. And, no, before you mention I actually do accept that the minority are scumbags - just incase you go off on a little rant about how I'm a bigot.

Nobody seems to agree with you anyway, pal. Give it over. You're full of hot air. Haha. If you're bored then instead of squabbling like a two-year-old, why don't you see how many spelling and gramatical errors you can find in this post. That'll be good craic for you.

Mr.Nice Guy

Longfield wrote:

What do you think these men might have thought about this march ?

Padraig Pearse
Thomas MacDonagh
Thomas Clarke
Joseph Plunkett
Edward Daly
Michael O’Hanrahan
William Pearse
Sean McBride
Con Colbert
Eamonn Ceannt
Michael Mallin
Sean Hueston
James Connolly
Sean McDermott

You cannot say that you are proud to be Irish and not respect these names and what they would have thought about this.

The people you named above didn't consult with the people of Dublin when they took part in the Easter Rising, did they?

I don't think they would object to the proposed march in Dublin as to do so would be hypocritical.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

You sure like the sound of your own voice, don't you?

My words are typed, not spoken.

the_menace wrote:

I stand by my slur...If they come down here and cause trouble, I hope they get the living crap kicked out of the.

What if they don't cause trouble? Do you still want them to get the living crap kicked out of themselves? After all, you did say and I quote:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is.

Sounds like you're desperate for violence as it suits your own views.

the_menace wrote:

Nobody seems to agree with you anyway, pal. Give it over.

Nothing wrong with disagreements. It's a free country. Furthermore, I don't think many people want violence at the march like YOU DO.

the_menace wrote:

You're full of hot air. Haha.

No I just understand these issues unlike yourself. Ha ha.

the_menace wrote:

If you're bored then instead of squabbling like a two-year-old, why don't you see how many spelling and gramatical errors you can find in this post. That'll be good craic for you.

You spelt grammatical wrong. Hey you're right, this IS fun!

Why don't you go and stir up some violence around your local area seeing as you like violence so much.

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

My words are typed, not spoken.



What if they don't cause trouble? Do you still want them to get the living crap kicked out of themselves? After all, you did say and I quote:



Sounds like you're desperate for violence as it suits your own views.



Nothing wrong with disagreements. It's a free country. Furthermore, I don't think many people want violence at the march like YOU DO.



No I just understand these issues unlike yourself. Ha ha.



You spelt grammatical wrong. Hey you're right, this IS fun!

Why don't you go and stir up some violence around your local area seeing as you like violence so much.

:rolleyes: Obviously

1. I've never raised my fists in anger to anyone.

2. Many of the marchers will be down here to cause trouble, agitation and/or violence. They have done it before, they *may* do it down here. And if they do, I would like to see them get a hiding. By your rationale, I could say that you support the stoning of little schoolgirls? Why? Why do you think it's okay for little schoolgirls to be pelted with rocks on the way to school?

How does that conflict with your pre-conceived notions of someone you don't even know?

deisedevil

Mr. Nice Guy, if you could take time out of the little row would you have a look at this and see do you agree with a protest in the way they are planning it?
(link at the end)


I have now been told by one of their members that the protest will not just be about the two issues they first said it was about(otr's and sinn fein's involvement in a government) It is now also about people protesting that they're britishness is fading away and their right to be british is being denied by our government. I asked countless times why there is a need to have the Orange Order marching with their orange parafanalia and drum's, bands, flutes etc. and the answers i have got range from that we should sit back and enjoy it(until some of the louts that go on these marches start a riot as they sometimes do is it?), that it is part of their culture and should be included(what has that got to do with a protest) and other stupid comments that show no satisfactory reason why the Orange Order are needed to accompany their protest! The whole thing is a sham. If they cannot stick to the issues they wish to protest about and not include the Orange Order then surely the gardai and government cannot allow this to go ahead. If it is given the go ahead, like Longfield said, i will be doing everything i can to get support to have it stopped.How that can be done i don't know, Longfield said he'd like to write letters to the Garda Commissionar or whoever in charge makes the decisions, might be a good idea to start there and also send him a copy of the threads in the LoveUlster members forum showing what they really want the protest march for and what it will really be about, a petition also. After all the Orange Order are an organisation that does not allow catholics into it and kicks out members who marry catholics or take part in a catholic ceremony, i'm not willing to then allow them to march through my capital! Bigots!
http://loveulster.com/forums/viewtop...?p=54569#54569

Giblet

If i have to read throught a sea of quotes dealing with every line I will ban who ever does it. You are not arguing, you are nit picking, and not only are you nit picking, you're doing it on points or statements that don't need nit picking. Your arguments are going around in circles, I'm the off ramp.

Mr.Nice Guy

the_menace wrote:

:rolleyes: Obviously

You just love that smiley don't you. Bless.

the_menace wrote:

By your rationale, I could say that you support the stoning of little schoolgirls? Why? Why do you think it's okay for little schoolgirls to be pelted with rocks on the way to school?

Don't be silly. My rationale is based on YOUR OWN COMMENTS. Got that/ is that easy to comprehend? Here they are again:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is.

What did you mean by this? You have yet to explain that to us all.

deisedevil wrote:

Mr. Nice Guy, if you could take time out of the little row would you have a look at this and see do you agree with a protest in the way they are planning it?

I saw your post. With respect, my views on this can be found pages back. If the Gardai are of the view after consultations with them that their aim is to incite trouble, then the march should not go ahead. Simple.

Mr.Nice Guy

Giblet wrote:

If i have to read throught a sea of quotes dealing with every line I will ban who ever does it. You are not arguing, you are nit picking, and not only are you nit picking, you're doing it on points or statements that don't need nit picking. Your arguments are going around in circles, I'm the off ramp.

OK, that's fair. I must agree the level of argument is dropping, unfortunately. I will retire from the thread by asking for the following sentence to be explained to me:

the_menace wrote:

Personally I can't say I'd be too upset if there was violence. It would add fuel to these loyalists' argument that a united Ireland is a bad thing; and as far as I'm concerned it is.

Gents, it's been a pleasure.

deisedevil

Lol, did ya miss Giblets post Mr. Nice Guy?

Edit: I see ya did.

darkman2

Hi everyone. Im just wondering why in gods name these ppl (and their associated imbeciles) are coming to Dublin. What have they to gain from marching here? Granted I dont mind victims groups marching but I do have a problem with loyalist thugs flaunting UJs on O'Connell st because its a recipe for disaster. Dont they even realise the vast majority of us have absolutly no time for this sort of thing? Nothing against the orange order but from what I know they are bigoted and hate Southerners with a passion. Hope the gardai dont have to crack some skulls during this parade as we could do without the hassle.:mad:

the_menace

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

OK, that's fair. I must agree the level of argument is dropping, unfortunately. I will retire from the thread by asking for the following sentence to be explained to me:



Gents, it's been a pleasure.

I've explained myself repeatedly, you just choose not to listen. I wonder why you haven't been banned yet as you've chosen to ignore Giblet's post and recommendations?

Giblet

I gave him a leeway because he posted before he saw my post.

Terry

gah. i can't go back to that forum. they're all a bunch of ****ing retards.

you just can't get them to see sense.

Supercell

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The people you named above didn't consult with the people of Dublin when they took part in the Easter Rising, did they?

WTF ..they gave their lives and as a result we a loyalist "troubles" free nation thats doing pretty well economically..

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I don't think they would object to the proposed march in Dublin as to do so would be hypocritical.

Thats the dumbest fcuking statement in the history of after hours and thats saying a lot.

deisedevil

julep wrote:

gah. i can't go back to that forum. they're all a bunch of ****ing retards.

you just can't get them to see sense.

I hear ya, it's all blind hatred, blinkered views, uncompromising and couldn't care less about what they might potentially cause.

Terry

i started a thread there under the name "i don't care". there is just no talking to them. you can't get a straight answer from them.

darkman2

julep wrote:

i started a thread there under the name "i don't care". there is just no talking to them. you can't get a straight answer from them.

Who? The loyalists? I viewed that 'love ulster' site today and the bigotry is sickening for example 'the republic is a facist state' and 'celtic supporters smell'. I think thats twisted tbh and we shouldnt be entertaining ppl like that here:mad:

jonny68

It's never gonna happen and if it does it will end in serious bloodshed,i for one would be out there protesting against these sectarian bigots :mad:

Blackjack

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You spelt grammatical wrong.

No, he spelt it incorrectly.
Now if you want to throw stones......

Giblet

Hey blackjack, didn't I warn against this crap? Why yes I did.

Who wants to try for the ban folks?

Blackjack

Giblet wrote:

Hey blackjack, didn't I warn against this crap? Why yes I did.

Who wants to try for the ban folks?

apologies. Could not help myself, warning noted.

Terry

darkman2 wrote:

Who? The loyalists? I viewed that 'love ulster' site today and the bigotry is sickening for example 'the republic is a facist state' and 'celtic supporters smell'. I think thats twisted tbh and we shouldnt be entertaining ppl like that here:mad:

it's like a car crash. i can't stop looking.

the_menace

To draw a line under it, I can't see this march going ahead to be honest. It's apparently been given the all-clear but I would imagine it will be withdrawn when the Gardaí and government cop themselves on and realise the potential trouble it's going to cause.

Elmo

I don't think it will actually cause that much trouble. I think it a stupid idea from the unionist.

Lots of people died in the trouble not just Unionist.

The government should adopt a day of Rememberance for all of the Innosent who died during the troubles. IMO.

This would disclude people who died while serving with the British Army, SAS, RUC, IRA, INLA, RIRA, UVF, UDA etc.

But I think it will be a good thing to let Unionist who wouldn't come down this way see the republic.

Love Ulster, All Nine

Freelancer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

If nitpicking was all I was capable of, I'd point out you used the word 'quiet' instead of 'quite' however I will also point out to you that you entered yourself into a discussion without anything worthwhile to contribute.

The first is classic semantics, claim you're not doing something by doing it. And haven't brought anything to the discussion this is you yet again engaging in the tedious habit of reporting opinion as fact myself and menace had a good discussion, you've by the opinion of several other responses on this thread, revealed yourself as a petty spiteful argumentive......

Those who resort to personal insults have lost the argument.:)

I'm sorry wheres that written? In stone? Thats your opinion doesn't make it true.

Ooh more insults. Yeah you're really qualified to talk about the merits of good debate...

Look you don't want ot enter the spirit of robust debate, run along, you're more than happy to patronise, imply insults, and be conscending, make sweeping accusations and pronouncements rather than challenge the merits of the point, and when someone catches you out, you resort to semantic nitpicking? Yet heaven for fu*cking fend if you get insulted.

You've got a terrible double standard.

Oxford English Dictionary - 'country': "a nation or State; the land it occupies".

The dictionary isn't the best way to settle an argument your prefered tool though.

Let me ask you this, should all the people of one landmass be considered of one nation?

Is the dictionary wrong? Do tell us.

No but it's an over simplistic definition of a nation. Answer the above question please.

As I understand it, to protest about concessions to Sinn Féin such as with the recent OTR legislation.

And.......the implication of such legislation is?

Uh-oh! Someone's a little uneducated on the subject! Don't worry, the nice guy of Boards is here to help you out, my uneducated friend. Here are the results of the 2004 NI Life and Times Survey:

Okay but do they see themselves as Irish, or as a seperate culture and nationality to the rest of ireland?

So it's far from a case of you're either British or Irish the way you think. This survey reveals that over one fifth of the population don't define themselves as 'British' or 'Irish'.

Wow one fifth.

Things aren't as simplistic as you think buddy.

This from a man who's boiling down generations of sectarian conflict over nationality to be solved because the oxford dictionary tells him so.

Wrong! See above! Dear oh dear...

I cannot believe my own little eyes, you actually produced a figure

British 47%
Irish 27%
Ulster 3%
Northern irish 21%
Other (specify) 3%
(Don't know) 0

Lets see do the majority see themselves as British? Yes. Is Britian a foreign country yes.

Saying 'Jesus wept' is not a personal insult. Are you for real man?

Again the semantic quibble, implying an insult is acceptable in your eyes, calling a spade a spade isn't.

What are you talking about?

Ah we're denial, you've already announced that "i've lost the argument" you arrogantly tell another poster that they are struggling you usual tactic is to sneer obnoxiously at other posters, and make pronouncements about their point of view or argument rather than actually rebut them. You're not adjucating the debate, sneering down your nose at other posters, and annoicung their losing is a shoddy kind of debating.

But sure identity is a complex thing. You could go to a pub in parts of Glasgow and suggest a chorus of God Save The Queen and be met with a similar response.

Your arguments are too simplistic. They boil down to Irish or British, green or orange. Sadly for you, things are alot more complex.

You're the one who who's boiling the confusing role of nation and hertiage down to a dictionary quote. And you're telling me I'm making it simplistic?

Currency?! LOL!!! So the fact I have the same currency as people in France and Germany means they're my compatriots?! You sir are surely taking the p*ss at this stage? LOL!

Again an infered insult, if I were to say "you're an idiot" according to you I'm losing the debate, but telling me I'm taking the piss is acceptable.

But they have a different set of laws to Britain! Soon there will be a ban on smoking in the North before Britain. Do you have ANY idea of what you're talking about?

Again oh look semantic quibbling, I was making a point that for all legal and intentially purposed and in actuality Nth Ireland is a foreign country, you're going at semantic nitpicking. Do you deny that Nth is foreign country?

That's far from certain. They might consider themselves Northern Irish.

Well from your own statistics they're twice as likely to consider themselves british than northern irish.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about Freelancer. You're really struggling and I feel for you. Read alot more on the issues in Northern Ireland and then get back to me. Remember mate, knowledge is power. Good luck.;)

Oh look an ad homien attack, conscending attitute and patronising tone, not an answer in sight there. You're a twiddling semantic nit picker who just produced statisitics that half the people in NI think themselves as British to prove your point that they're Irish. And I'm clueless?

Get a grip kid.

Giblet

Stop It God Damn It!

morlan

Jesus lads, give it a break already.

smashingpumpkin

OMG

just checked out their fotos on website

Do we really want a United Ireland?

Terry

i figured it out.
they're coming down here in the hope that the people of dublin will start a riot. then they can say that they are being opressed and that a united Ireland would be a bad idea.

Flex

John R wrote:

What is it with this lot and marching anyway? Is it some kind of obscure fetish? Practically every time I turn on the news there they are stomping off down some road playing some very bad music as if it is some big achievement. All it is as far as I can see is a bunch of people too tight to pay bus fare.

The only thing I can think of that is more pointless than marching would be standing around in the middle of winter to shout at people marching.

If they really want to march in our little republic so badly then fine, on one condition. They must start at the border, block off one side of the M1 and leave them to it. If any of them actually make it to Dublin they would probably be desperate for people to throw piss at them.


If pissing them off is the goal then I suggest lining the march route with "Dublin welcomes the gay pride parade" banners.


LoveUlster...Use a rubber.

LOL !!!!!! Thanks John R, that was damn funny!!!!!

madness

yes,good comment John R ,dont think anyone takes them seriously only themselves,although to me its like allowing the nazis walk down some street in Tel Aviv waving swastikas.

sweety4uall

Kersh wrote:

i think we should stand there and, em, eh... 'applaud'.... lots of us, and then route the march through some nice rough areas.

heehee.i agree.a little tour of the inner city streets and and the friendly orange loving dubliners,lol.isnt there some petition we can sign to stop this march?

This thread turned into a disaster-piece real quick

sweety4uall

darkman2 wrote:

Who? The loyalists? I viewed that 'love ulster' site today and the bigotry is sickening for example 'the republic is a facist state' and 'celtic supporters smell'. I think thats twisted tbh and we shouldnt be entertaining ppl like that here:mad:

i agree totaly.

pat kenny

Best thing would be to ignore it completly. Theres no point in fretting over it.

Remember
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your
right to say it"

In other words, it is because you may dispise these people so much that you must allow them to march unhindered.

Free speech and assembly is mostly about letting the people you dont agree with march or speak freely.

RE*AC*TOR

Haven't really been following this entire thread - but the best course of action for anyone who is in anyway bothered by this is to don your best St Patricks Day Outfit (or Lansdown Rd outfit), grab a tricolor and march happily alongside them.

LovelyHurling

Wow I cant believe I didnt notice this thread before, its quite an interesting one. I come from the North and my folks would be what people would consider "loyalist" simply by virtue of the fact that they are a protestant couple living in a mostly Protestant neighbourhood voting (mainly) UUP. Having lived here for almost 5 years I think Ive overcome all of the silly prejudices I learned growing up (Rangers boys are just as smelly as Celtic supporters tbh).

I dont want to get too political here, but I can see their point.
Look if there was an election in the morning on whether to merge with the republic, the north would vote against. Why? There are more Protestants than catholics, more staunch unionists than staunch nationalists. Now thats a fact.
This isnt my opinion, but Ive heard it expressed a lot especially over the Christmas break at home: The true meaning of the word nationalist, it is sometimes forgotten, applies to Unionists just as much as those who vote SF/SDLP. The majority of the people of the North have the right to be allied to the country they perceive themselves to have originated from. The population difference is marginal of course, but many unionists find it frustrating that Irish passports are issued to Northern citizens and just feel that in general, a lot of leeway is being given to the SF supporters (yes I know not all nationalists are SF) just because the IRA has paused activity... when the UUP has been demonising loyalist crimes all along. Suddenly people feel as if its as if the unionists are the bad boys and the republican crimes have been forgotten.

After SF/IRA announced they were ceasing activity, Bertie Ahern came on BBC Newsnight saying he was in favour of a united Ireland. How do you think Unionists, so used to thinking of this man as a sensible man, understanding and friendly in his dealings with the unionist community of the north, how do you think they felt?

Mary McAleese visited the north not so long ago, and she got a very welcoming reception. if she came now, I think she would still be welcomed, but with a greater degree of apprehension. In short, unionists do feel as if there is now being a push made, both on the London side and the Dublin side, to unite the island of Ireland. This cannot happen, as it is only going to fuel sectarian tensions, and bring the whole process back to 1959. Why bother?

The Orange Order, an organisation whose actions I personally dont like, are coming here to fight back at what they regard as this new movement. Maybe fight back is a poor choice of words, they want to underline the North's indentity and her roots... just like Irishmen and women who march in Sydney and New York each Patricks Day.

Im not defending them, but if Im in town, I'll be watching the march. I hope most people have liberated themselves from the opinion that Ulster is an innocent entity being held at ransom by a herd of foreign men. I often think of Ulster as a child borne of a topsy turvy romance between London and Dublin. Neither can keep the north to themselves, and while it is a part of Britain, Ulster doesn't belong to Ireland. es a big boy now. Surely this was the whole crux of Good Friday.

Sorry if this is a rant, i hope I havent offended anyone, i dont mind getting political on boards but I realise this is a sensitive subject. However I do think the Nazis and their swastikas comment just above this is unfair.

TheBigLebowski

LovelyHurling wrote:

Neither can keep the north to themselves, and while it is a part of Britain, Ulster doesn't belong to Ireland. es a big boy now. Surely this was the whole crux of Good Friday.

You would think that you of all people would know that northern Ireland is not a part of Britain but is in fact part of the UK, as in, the United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland.