Is it sexist that there is no official Paternity Leave in Ireland?

Nevyn

lazydaisy life is not straight forward and filling out forms should not be a reason
to deny paid paternity leave when it is required and requested.

lazydaisy

Yea Thaedal I agree with you. I was just trying to forsee the hidden costs in applying a paternity leave policy.

249 a week doesnt seem that much. Also considering in what is saves the company in terms of rehiring/retraining.

annR

expecting the taxpayers to reimburse them and moans about the lack of support...

Conor, do you think couples should be encouraged to have children?

annR

annR wrote:

Conor, do you think couples should be encouraged to have children?

Not at all, nor discouraged either. It surely is a matter for them to decide.

But couples should of course be encouraged to think through all aspects of having children, including the financial implications...

Daavid

Deleted User wrote:

Not at all, nor discouraged either. It surely is a matter for them to decide.

But couples should of course be encouraged to think through all aspects of having children, including the financial implications...

And the government should have to think of all aspects of family welfare, including fathers and their input into the family unit.

By the way, thanks for acknowledging my (and Hobbes) earlier suggestion about a possible fair solution to this. I think something like that would solve the issue.

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

Not at all, nor discouraged either. It surely is a matter for them to decide.

But couples should of course be encouraged to think through all aspects of having children, including the financial implications...

So, by your same logic ...

people should think about the financial implications of having surgery. Of getting ill. etc, etc, etc. (I'm not actually trying to compare all of these things to having a child - just making a point)

Unfair? I don't see it being any more "unfair" a comment than the reality that children aren't always planned. Even within partnerships. Even though both may want children, "just not yet" so to speak.

Conor, I find your rather black-and-white opinion to be rather, well, lacking in any sort of sensibility. Tell me, do you abstain from sex because you don't want the financial burdn of having a child? And saying you practice safe sex doesn't count, since no method is infallible. Hmmmm ... tricky question that, eh? :rolleyes:

Daavid

Daavid wrote:

By the way, thanks for acknowledging my (and Hobbes) earlier suggestion about a possible fair solution to this. I think something like that would solve the issue.

It was a sensible suggestion so it would be wrong of me not to acknowldge it.

Lemming wrote:

Tell me, do you abstain from sex because you don't want the financial burdn of having a child? And saying you practice safe sex doesn't count, since no method is infallible.

Huh?

You serious? I have read some posters who feel the need to divulge very intimate details of their sex life on other forums. Frankly you're not gonna get me to rush in and join them. However, the concept of family planning is not some pie in the sky hit and miss lottery involving either total abstention or putting your lifestyle in the hands of the people at Durex...

lazydaisy

I get what Conor is saying. He doesn't want to have to subsidize the choices other people are making in their family planning. However, that's life, the rich pay for the poor, the young for the old, the healthy for the sick, the childless for the breeders.

Maybe they should tax nappies at 15 cents per nappy like they did with the plastic bags.

Daavid

I think you'd see alot of people start to use Terry nappies again

Lemming

Deleted User wrote:

You serious? I have read some posters who feel the need to divulge very intimate details of their sex life on other forums. Frankly you're not gonna get me to rush in and join them. However, the concept of family planning is not some pie in the sky hit and miss lottery involving either total abstention or putting your lifestyle in the hands of the people at Durex...

Hang on a sec ... where'd that black-and-white opinion go? It was there just a minute ago? .....

Oh, so it's not black-and-white after all?

I was not expecting you to divulge your sexual behaviour Conor74. You made my point rather well for me by your response on the concept of family planning.

annR

Conor, surely the country and society needs couples to have babies, otherwise the population will just dwindle away with time?

Nevyn

It is currently dwindling and if it keeps up we will be in the same aged population
positition as germany.

Yes we have a lot of migrant workers but they will most likely go home to where
they have family and a support network to have children.
All read there has been talk about chaninge the retirement age as there will
not be enough taxes to pay for the national old age pension in years to come.

savoyard

They introduced paid paternity leave in the UK and in the first year, just one in five fathers entitled to it took it up. The payment rate is just stg102, which could be affecting the take up rate, but it might be just as much to do with employers not being too happy about it. Or perhaps not enough fathers knew about it. What do you reckon the Irish take up would be like, assuming the pay is no greater than €250?

Ireland is way behind the rest of Europe when it comes to this...

Norway 4 weeks paternity leave ("use it or lose it")
Finland 18 days paid paternity (proposing to raise it to 25 days)
Denmark 14 days paid paternity
France 2 weeks paid paternity
Italy 2 weeks paid paternity
UK 2 weeks paid paternity (from 2003)
Sweden 10 days paternity leave
Austria 10 days paid paternity
Portugal 5 days paternity
Belgium 3 days paid paternity
Spain 2 days paternity
Holland 2 days paid paternity
Luxembourg 2 days paid paternity
Ireland NO entitlements to paternity leave

From Rollercoaster.ie

Seth Brundle

Deleted User wrote:

But couples should of course be encouraged to think through all aspects of having children, including the financial implications...

I look forward to the day when you become a parent! Your blinkered eyes will soon open!

lazydaisy

Also Conor and others will need people to have kids that will grow up and join the labour force so there are people to pay for their health costs [medical cards] and pensions when they become elderly.

lazydaisy

lazydaisy wrote:

Also Conor and others will need people to have kids that will grow up and join the labour force so there are people to pay for their health costs [medical cards] and pensions when they become elderly.

Unless of course 'Conor and others' believe that as much financial planning should go into retirement as goes into a family and believes that there's something to be said for helping oneself rather than scrounging for a handout at every milestone in life...

ArthurDent

Deleted User wrote:

Unless of course 'Conor and others' believe that as much financial planning should go into retirement as goes into a family and believes that there's something to be said for helping oneself rather than scrounging for a handout at every milestone in life...

So I take it that you'll be sending back the cheques for OAP when you get them and that if you went to college or university you have already made plans to pay back the true cost of your diploma/degree to the exchequer?

In an economy like ours you pay taxes (direct and indirect) not just to benefit yourself but to benefit society.

ArthurDent

ArthurDent wrote:

In an economy like ours you pay taxes (direct and indirect) not just to benefit yourself but to benefit society.

True.

Just the more recent posts seem to treat children as some kind of fodder for keeping the country going in future years, which seems to me to be a lot colder and more clinical than any points I made. Have I just landed into the video for the Wall by any chance?

Nevyn

I would not say cold and calculating I very much doubt anyone has a child for the reason of population growth and a heath future economy but these points
are made in rebuttle to the 'my taxes' comments.

simu

It just happens that "cold and calculating" aims of economists and so on happen to coincide with the warm and fuzzy wishes of prospective parents in this case!

simu

simu wrote:

It just happens that "cold and calculating" aims of economists and so on happen to coincide with the warm and fuzzy wishes of prospective parents in this case!

Daavid

You never answered if you'll be re-imbursing anyone for your college fees or any hospital stays etc. Conor. Surely you wouldn't accept these handouts.... I mean, you wouldn't want to be seen as a scrounge now would you?!

Oh, and when you're sending back those OAP cheques, can you address them to the Government Paternity Fund. lol

annR

Conor you also never answered what you think we're going to do about a plummeting population if people aren't supported in having babies.

Daavid - if you can't beat it, join it!!

annR - robots.

Actually, is there a proven correlation between birth rates and paternal leave? Seems to me that countries with very high birth rates eg. in the Third World, have no great social security system...

Nevyn

These countries also have little or no contraception, high mother and infant mortaility rates, high childhood mortality rates and low life expectancy.

But that is other countries.
We need to concern ourslefs with the steady lowering of fertility rate and birth rates in this country.