The love Ulster ( FAIR and the DUP ) to march in Dublin

Complete with Union jacks and marching bands!

Jeffrey Donaldson is working out the route with the Gardaí as we speak.
I find it strange that Willie Frazer of FAIR ( the organisation that campaigns for victims of the troubles on the unionist side ) might worry that a state visit from the Queen wouldnt go down well in Dublin considering people were falling over themselves to shake prince charlies hand the first time he was on Grafton st.
I wonder how this march will go down?

Sunday Times (11th December)
The anouncement of the 'Love-Ulster' parade to be held on Saturday 28th January along Dublin's O'Connell Street and on to Leinster House government buildings, will be led by northern victims of republican violence. It is designed to protest over issues concerning the peace process and against the British and Irish governments proposed legislation regarding on-the-runs (OTR) terrorists.
Willie Frazer (FAIR) is one of the organisers along with Jeffery Donaldson (DUP) are working out details with the Gardai over the route. Frazer said "If we can parade in Dublin with no bother what is the problem in Northern Ireland? This shows that people in the south are more tolerant and mature in their attitudes than northern nationalists. We also asked the Gardai if it would be a problem to fly a Union flag and they said it would not be a problem. The plan is that the bands will carry the Union Jack and the Ulster flag. We will show respect to the tricolour, but we will not be carriying it on the march," remarked Frazer.

In my opinion this is certainly a a bold move and I am glad that the organisers recognise the southern state as being tolerant of Unionist grieviences. When I think back to the times that I traveled north to be greated by "Ulster Says No" I would think that the tolerence being shown by people in the republic should be treated with gratitude. Love-Ulster might wish to be reminded that they will be visiting a country where the tricolour national flag is symbolic of the peace that exists between the orange and the green and does not represent the republicanisms that are associated with paramilitarism. If this rally is to be sucessful and a prelude to a state visit by HM the Queen Elizabeth, a lot of people in the republic will be watching to see how much dignity and respect can be applied by northern Unionists to our sovereignty.

Uthur

Quite a few posts on this one already

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054861835

Maskhadov

should be intresting :P

whiskeyman

It's worth comparing this to the proposed Orange Order march down Dawson St in May 2000.
That got the go-ahead but the Order pulled out.

A Dub in Glasgo

Last weekend in January, is that not the usual time for the Bloody Sunday commemorations? This group are only looking to stir the ****e and hope there is a reaction. Maybe there will be a Politics Forum meet during the day?

Should be an interesting day indeed.

Flex

:mad:

Sand

Should be a chance for parity of esteem to rear its head.

But seriously now, that parade will be attacked - if not in an organised fashion then certainly in a disorganised fashion. As someone has already said, the Love Ulster crowd will most likely be satisfied with getting permission for the march and then withdrawing. A bit of a rallying cry for their movement, topped up with "confirmation" that their traditions arent safe in a United Ireland. Two birds with the one stone.

Uthur

Uthur wrote:

Quite a few posts on this one already

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054861835

I rarely read the after hours board.

simu

It's an odd name for such a parade! Makes it seem like a piss-take.

dermo88

There are two groups in Ireland that make me turn and have neo nazi desires of removal, deportation, or better for the world and all, concerned, preferably final solution style removal from the face of the earth.

The first one are the Ulster Unionists. The second ones, well......I'll keep my mouth shut, and avoid being censored by the moderators. First letter T in official circles, but they are really K. Sometimes I walk past the places where they live whistling the Horst Wessel song. So they get the hint. So they know that their burnt tires, and **** strewn on streets is not welcome. Its hardly brave, but hopefully maybe there is one or two educated enough to know what that means.......it means get out of the country. Get out full stop. Because if I get a sniff of power, I will have the revenue inspectors, the dole inspectors, and every organ of the state persecuting you, until you know the best place is to live like normal people.

Ireland can welcome anybody, but if you are a Unionist, T/K, there is a place for you. Its called Innisvickalaun, Skellig Michael, Tuskar Rock, or the Saltee Islands. Stay there and die.

Otherwise, I don't care whether you are black, white, straight, gay, chinese, lesbian, disabled, or perfect. As long as you behave, welcome to Ireland.

Goodshape

dermo88 wrote:

The second ones, well......I'll keep my mouth shut, and avoid being censored by the moderators. First letter T in official circles, but they are really K. Sometimes I walk past the places where they live whistling the Horst Wessel song. So they get the hint. So they know that their burnt tires, and **** strewn on streets is not welcome. Its hardly brave, but hopefully maybe there is one or two educated enough to know what that means.......it means get out of the country. Get out full stop.

And I'll keep my mouth shut in the spirit of not attacking the poster.. but first initial O, second initial T.

Anyway.. it's pretty much boils the blood that they would come down here and march for Britain -- victims of the troubles indeed! (but shhh.. let's not mention the several hundreds of years before their trouble began.. sure, no one wants reminded of that).

It's an odd one to figure out a responce to. Seem's an obvious incitement to me but if it were to result in violence what would that show? That they are an oppressed people? Their point proven then?

Or we go out and cheer them on? Well, that's not going to happen.

Best bet is probably just to ignore them as much as possible.. let them have their march and head off home again -- but then what? is this showing that we're alright with it? Are we?

Mighty_Mouse

but hopefully maybe there is one or two educated enough to know what that means.......it means get out of the country

thank god for education!!!

topped up with "confirmation" that their traditions arent safe in a United Ireland.

that's exactly all their looking for. No meaningful willingness to engage with the south, build relationships bla bla bla.....................................

Maskhadov

I dont know if the parade is meant to be to have a go at people in Dublin (ROI). I think they are trying to put across the message that they want to have certain rights and any future all ireland nation might not respect that.

That was pretty hard hitting stuff dermo88.

breandan

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont know if the parade is meant to be to have a go at people in Dublin (ROI). I think they are trying to put across the message that they want to have certain rights and any future all ireland nation might not respect that.

Respect the oranger order?
Not on your life.
They are a fascist organization pure and simple (IMO) and Ill treat the same way as I would any other group that tries in intimidate a section of society because of its religion or ethnicity.

Nevyn

If Ireland was to become as it were as Sinn fein wishes a nation once again
then we have to learn to accept what is an aspect of the cultural identity of people who live on the Island of Ireland.
That is how they identify themselves and lobby and how they rally thier communities and to have them down here lobbying may well the way of the future. It is a brave bold step towards a better future I hope (but doubt it), towards ridding ourselves of the idea of white, neo celtic catholics only being irish.

whiskeyman

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont know if the parade is meant to be to have a go at people in Dublin (ROI).

I'm surprised no-one has pointed out that the reason they are marching in Dublin is because they know it's the future capital of a United Ireland, and one that they see is almost unstoppable now (hence the march).

That has to be a huge victory for any nationalist and to retalitate would be playing into their hands.
If they step out of line, the Gardaí will be there to try their new batons moves...

Zebra3

If these people want to march or demonstrate, well, let them.

It is (in theory) a democracy that we live in.

IF there is any trouble, then they should be arrested and face the consequences in the courts, and not used as an excuse for the Gardai to randomly assault people as happened at the Ireland-England match 10 years ago.

Genghis

If we are an independent republic, then we should be mature enough to let these guys march and have there say. We have nothing to fear from them. I personally have no issue.

If we are ever to have a United Ireland, then we need to recognise their different tradition and accomodate this. If there is ever to be a United Ireland, then this sort of thing needs to be accepted as a normal expression of diversity - in just the same way that Hare Krishnas, Trade Unionists, right-wing anti-abortionists and others can march in freedom despite the fact that a lot of people may well object to their particular message.

The interests of republicans would be best served by allowing this march go ahead with gusto and no objection. Show them tolerance, maturity and acceptance. What they are likely to hope for is a display of aggression, sectarianism and vitriol that proves their point that there is no place for Unionists in a wider Ireland. I hope they don't get what they want.

Lemming

As much as I might find the Orange Order to be utterly abhorrant, I find the vitrol comign from the chuckies here to be somewhat .... amusingly hypocritical. For all yoru claims of "inclusion" and "moving forward", you seem remarkably unable to afford the same "inclusion" to your direct counterparts, and they are your _direct_ counterparts. They are identical to you in every way shape and form of mentality and attitude. You are the exact same coin, just the flip side.

Meh

This shows that people in the south are more tolerant and mature in their attitudes than northern nationalists.

Nice to see that this parade is clearly intended as a sincere cross-community attempt at reconciliation, rather than just an excuse for childish name-calling at the "other side". <end sarcasm>

That said, if I can put up with the Provos parading down O'Connell Street with republican regalia, I can put up with these clowns and their Union Jacks too.

Diorraing

I don't care about it really as long as they don't start singing "Croppies Lie Down" and other sectarian songs. It would be a chance to show that they are welcome in the Republic.

county

Diorraing wrote:

I don't care about it really as long as they don't start singing "Croppies Lie Down" and other sectarian songs. It would be a chance to show that they are welcome in the Republic.

that would totally confuse them:D

murphaph

They have every right to come to Dublin and march on Dail Eireann so long as OUR government is involved in the INTERNAL affairs of a part of the United Kingdom. If OUR government had no input into their affairs then they'd have no right to march, but that's not the case.

I hope any march just passes off peacefully and they head home without incident. The worst thing for our city is for them to be abused by knuckle dragging SF placard waving twats. This will surely test the SF mantra of "inclusion" in a hypothetical united Ireland.

I would of course not want any march to cause undue disruption to the economic life of the city and so on.

Benedict XVI

Meh wrote:

That said, if I can put up with the Provos parading down O'Connell Street with republican regalia, I can put up with these clowns and their Union Jacks too.

Totally agree, if SF can have a march for Irish Unity, FAIR can have a march airing their grevences, I hope it passes off pecafully and those involved enjoy their day.
The Orange Order have a march in Rosnaulagh(sp) Co. Donegal that by all accounts passes of peacfully each year.

AngelofFire

FAIR have every right to come down here and March, i fundamentally believe in freedom of speech in assembly. The IRA killed more innocent people during the troubles than the British Army, RUC or the loyalist paramilitaries. If people are Marching in comemoration of their lost loved ones than i have no problem with it. It would be a good gesture to the our brothers and sisters in the unionist community up north if the people of the republic were to welcome this march.

growler

Do they have the right to march in a foreign country of which they are not citizens ?

I can't recall an instance where a legal protest , by ( a mojority of) non-nationals, was allowed to take place in a country.

Surely they should be striving to influence the policies of the government that they elect rather than one with which their votes count for nought.

Seems like an attempt to provoke the nationalists into some reaction which they can then trot out as proof of the savagery of the papist masses. If it does go ahead they will get a reaction, short of a dublin curfew in their honour.


and county, Croppies Lie Down is a unionist song, why would that confuse them ?

Would they not have to renounce their citizenship to be foreigners?
I thought that right was still afforded constitutionally to anyone born on the island of Ireland?

Genghis

AFAIK anyone born in Northern Ireland is guaranteed under our constitution citizenship of this country. Also, Article 2 states that anyone born on the island of Ireland has a right to part of the Irish Nation - in other words the Unionists are expressly not "non-nationals" as you term it.

growler wrote:

Do they have the right to march in a foreign country of which they are not citizens ?

I can't recall an instance where a legal protest , by ( a mojority of) non-nationals, was allowed to take place in a country.

Surely they should be striving to influence the policies of the government that they elect rather than one with which their votes count for nought.

Seems like an attempt to provoke the nationalists into some reaction which they can then trot out as proof of the savagery of the papist masses. If it does go ahead they will get a reaction, short of a dublin curfew in their honour.


and county, Croppies Lie Down is a unionist song, why would that confuse them ?

dermo88

dermo88 wrote:

There are two groups in Ireland that make me turn and have neo nazi desires of removal, deportation, or better for the world and all, concerned, preferably final solution style removal from the face of the earth.

The first one are the Ulster Unionists. The second ones, well......I'll keep my mouth shut, and avoid being censored by the moderators. First letter T in official circles, but they are really K. Sometimes I walk past the places where they live whistling the Horst Wessel song. So they get the hint. So they know that their burnt tires, and **** strewn on streets is not welcome. Its hardly brave, but hopefully maybe there is one or two educated enough to know what that means.......it means get out of the country. Get out full stop. Because if I get a sniff of power, I will have the revenue inspectors, the dole inspectors, and every organ of the state persecuting you, until you know the best place is to live like normal people.

Ireland can welcome anybody, but if you are a Unionist, T/K, there is a place for you. Its called Innisvickalaun, Skellig Michael, Tuskar Rock, or the Saltee Islands. Stay there and die.

Otherwise, I don't care whether you are black, white, straight, gay, chinese, lesbian, disabled, or perfect. As long as you behave, welcome to Ireland.

This post reminds me of that scene from the first twilight zone movie.
Speaking of which - thats where I'm sending you for peddling genocidal views on here.

Maskhadov

They have a right to march down here...

i heard them on the radio last night and it was more of a " we want to let everyone down south know that this is important for our culture" as opposed to previous stances like "this is our right, no surrender".

Since they have adopted a more conciliatory manner im all for it.

gurramok

AngelofFire wrote:

FAIR have every right to come down here and March, i fundamentally believe in freedom of speech in assembly. The IRA killed more innocent people during the troubles than the British Army, RUC or the loyalist paramilitaries. If people are Marching in comemoration of their lost loved ones than i have no problem with it. It would be a good gesture to the our brothers and sisters in the unionist community up north if the people of the republic were to welcome this march.

This is not just a one-sided 'victims' march, it includes the sectarian Orange Order who ban non-protestant membership, and loyalist paramilitaries. Just have a look at the pictures of them on tv in the last march in Belfast, it was disgusting.