The love Ulster ( FAIR and the DUP ) to march in Dublin

county

what is a west brit?

smashey

Houl yer whist - keep quiet / don`t butt in
Ye hallion - you tearaway
Skreigh o day - crack of dawn / day
Scundered - fed up


Pardon me for butting in here but I copied the above. How do you justify classing a dialect (above) as a stand alone language. I think I have seen the phrase somewhere "tha boord o' ulster scot". Just sounds like a heavy accented Scotsman not a language.

Kilsally

Flex wrote:

Do they AOH still exist in Ireland anymore? Iv heard theres some in New York, but I wasnt sure about Ireland. Must have very few members.

If the orange order promote Protestantism, why dont they promote the Protestant Republicans of 1798 like Wolfe Tone, or Protestants who led the Home Rule movement, like Parnell, or Isaac Butt? And if they really march to 'celebrate' the victory of William of Orange at the Boyne, why dont they ever mention the contribution of the Pope to William of Orange's campaign? Just curious

Yes there is an AOH building not far from me. They usually march through Cookstown on St Paddys Day and also in August, usually the day before or day after the Apprentice Boys of Derry "Siege of Derry" parade for the Maiden City festival in Londonderry / Derry.

Ok to address your point. Increasing the Order has been invlovled in events about the 1798 rebellion. A few lodges from Belfast (St Patricks LOL 699 I think helped to produce a documentary about the Battle of Saintfield where members of the same families fought on opposing sides..some with the United Irishmen and others with the York Fencibles regiment which had an Orange Lodge in its ranks.

The Orange Order isa Protestant fraternity foremost but it is also a Patriotic society which in Ireland adopted a Unionist ethos. In other jurisdictions such as the USA or Ghana you will find there are no problems or indeed in England. So in reality it is the political situation that causes problems rather than religious although the troubles in NI are of course ethno-religious.

"why dont they ever mention the contribution of the Pope to William of Orange's campaign?"

It is mentioned in some of the historical booklets available from Schomberg House (Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland`s HQ in Belfast)

smashey

county wrote:

what is a west brit?

I believe that is a term for Irishmen by other Irishmen who believe them to have some sort of allegiance to Britain or not patriotic enough. We are an Island to the west of Britain. I think perhaps George Bernard Shaw might have used this term.

county

smashey wrote:

I believe that is a term for Irishmen by other Irishmen who believe them to have some sort of allegiance to Britain or not patriotic enough. We are an Island to the west of Britain. I think perhaps George Bernard Shaw might have used this term.

thanks for that,smashey

Kilsally

smashey wrote:

Houl yer whist - keep quiet / don`t butt in
Ye hallion - you tearaway
Skreigh o day - crack of dawn / day
Scundered - fed up


Pardon me for butting in here but I copied the above. How do you justify classing a dialect (above) as a stand alone language. I think I have seen the phrase somewhere "tha boord o' ulster scot". Just sounds like a heavy accented Scotsman not a language.

It is a dialect of Scots. Scots is a seperate language recognised under european law and protected under The European Bureau for Lesser-Used Languages ( http://www.eblul.org/ )

Scots is a West Germanic language derived language as is English although they developed seperately with Scots heavily influence by Gaelic in Scotland and Ireland and other languages. Of course in many areas there are but remnants, leaving undoubtedly Scots influenc but ultimately it is Ulster-English speckled with Scots / Ulster-Scots words. There are however some some remaining hotspots where the "braid tongue" or "braid scotch" is still spoken. I is also a family thing. You will find it has been drilled out of people at school to teach "proper English" whilst they still use it at home, at church and in local communities.

The Scots language has a unique vocabulary well in advance of any dialect.

suggest you listen here for an example:-
http://pub33.bravenet.com/guestbook/2790273807/

county

Kilsally wrote:

Slán go fóill

Faugh A Ballagh

Lámh Dhearg Abú
what the hell does that mean?

smashey

Well I might have known the EU would recognise it somewhere along the line. Now explain this to me. I come from Donegal, near the border and a lot of people from my area would use these phrases in normal conversation. This is a nationalist area. Now the people who use these phrases would never join the ulster scots society as they could never feel comfortable as it is mostly a unionist based organisation. I would occassionaly use some phrases myself and I couldn't be paid to go near the society as it would 'get me dander up'. How do you factor the Nationalist people who use ulster scot into the whole equation?

Flex

Kilsally wrote:

Yes there is an AOH building not far from me. They usually march through Cookstown on St Paddys Day and also in August, usually the day before or day after the Apprentice Boys of Derry "Siege of Derry" parade for the Maiden City festival in Londonderry / Derry.

Do they only march twice a year?

Ok to address your point. Increasing the Order has been invlovled in events about the 1798 rebellion. A few lodges from Belfast (St Patricks LOL 699 I think helped to produce a documentary about the Battle of Saintfield where members of the same families fought on opposing sides..some with the United Irishmen and others with the York Fencibles regiment which had an Orange Lodge in its ranks.

The Orange Order isa Protestant fraternity foremost but it is also a Patriotic society which in Ireland adopted a Unionist ethos. In other jurisdictions such as the USA or Ghana you will find there are no problems or indeed in England. So in reality it is the political situation that causes problems rather than religious although the troubles in NI are of course ethno-religious.

It is mentioned in some of the historical booklets available from Schomberg House (Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland`s HQ in Belfast)

Are there ever any banners to the United Irishmen or the Pope at parades though? Iv never seen any

Kilsally

county wrote:

Kilsally wrote:

Slán go fóill

Faugh A Ballagh

Lámh Dhearg Abú
what the hell does that mean?

Its Irish:-

Goodbye for now

Clear The Way (motto of the Royal Irish Regiment)

Red Hand Onwards

smashey

county wrote:

Kilsally wrote:

Slán go fóill

Faugh A Ballagh

Lámh Dhearg Abú
what the hell does that mean?

I can only give you the Irish translation. Lamh dearg is red hand (flag of ulster) and abu is onwards or generically all the way or something along those lines

Kilsally

smashey wrote:

Well I might have known the EU would recognise it somewhere along the line. Now explain this to me. I come from Donegal, near the border and a lot of people from my area would use these phrases in normal conversation. This is a nationalist area. Now the people who use these phrases would never join the ulster scots society as they could never feel comfortable as it is mostly a unionist based organisation. I would occassionaly use some phrases myself and I couldn't be paid to go near the society as it would 'get me dander up'. How do you factor the Nationalist people who use ulster scot into the whole equation?

Start your own association which can get grant assistance for whatever you do, language, culture, arts, music etc. I would say you are correct that it is largely the Unionist community that takes an interest but by no means exclusively. t is refelctive of the fact that the Scots planters to Ulster were largely Presbyterian but the fact that is crosses religious and political boundaries just shows how much influence it has had on the whole North of Ireland.

Kilsally

Flex wrote:

Do they only march twice a year?



Are there ever any banners to the United Irishmen or the Pope at parades though? Iv never seen any

I am not entirely sure to be honest. They do carry bannerettes but I cannot remember what is on them. I have only really seen them once when I was out shopping and they marched through cookstown and I stood and watched the bands as they went by.

smashey

Kilsally wrote:

Start your own association which can get grant assistance for whatever you do, language, culture, arts, music etc. I would say you are correct that it is largely the Unionist community that takes an interest but by no means exclusively. t is refelctive of the fact that the Scots planters to Ulster were largely Presbyterian but the fact that is crosses religious and political boundaries just shows how much influence it has had on the whole North of Ireland.

Which from my perspective is what the ulster scots did just to get their hands on the money. I mean if you all pledge allegiance to the crown, queen and country and all that then shouldn't you stick to the queen's english?

Flex

Kilsally wrote:

I am not entirely sure to be honest. They do carry bannerettes but I cannot remember what is on them. I have only really seen them once when I was out shopping and they marched through cookstown and I stood and watched the bands as they went by.

I meant the orange order parades

Kilsally

Flex wrote:

I meant the orange order parades

Generally, Yes, but it is different for each lodge. Each lodge will hold their annual church parade and perhaps invite three or four neighbouring lodges. It is on a Sunday morning usually and they march behing a single band playing hymns

However this is reciprocated so the local lodge may march at three or four other neighbouring lodges church services.

And of course you have the 12th July demonstrations where the local lodge usually marches in the local village in the mornign, gets on a bus and goes to the main demonstration, largely based around the counties ie Wouth Londonderry would have a demonstration, city of Londonderry / derry would have a demonstration etc.

Thats it although I think there are something like 3000 parades once they are all added up - although that includes AOH, Republican, Apprentice Boys and Royal black parades too. Although the fugure is a little misleading as for instance on the 12th the parade in the local village is one parade and then the main demonstration is another when they are really connected to the same thing.

Kilsally

The notorious, Drumcree parade is actually the annual church parade on the 1st July of one of the Portadown lodges and also commemorate the Batle of the Somme where 5000 men from the 36th Ulster division died in one day plus the other regiments as well like the 16th Irish and such on top of that.

They did a very bad job of letting people know that. Very few knew that until well after the actual Drumcree escapades we al saw on our TV`s.

Kilsally

smashey wrote:

Which from my perspective is what the ulster scots did just to get their hands on the money. I mean if you all pledge allegiance to the crown, queen and country and all that then shouldn't you stick to the queen's english?

Isnt she Queen of Scotland as well? Secondly they did not always do so as shown by the Presbyterian role in the United Irishmen, their emigration to the Us due to the Test Acts which were harder of the Presbyterians than any others, including Catholics, which also account for the strong role those emigrants later played in the US War of Independence...yet the Act of Union in 1801 changed alot of that as it removed the corrupt Anglican (Church of Ireland) based Dublin goernment and brought a measure of equality leading the Presbyterian to support the Union.

Flex

Kilsally wrote:

Generally, Yes, but it is different for each lodge. Each lodge will hold their annual church parade and perhaps invite three or four neighbouring lodges. It is on a Sunday morning usually and they march behing a single band playing hymns

However this is reciprocated so the local lodge may march at three or four other neighbouring lodges church services.

And of course you have the 12th July demonstrations where the local lodge usually marches in the local village in the mornign, gets on a bus and goes to the main demonstration, largely based around the counties ie Wouth Londonderry would have a demonstration, city of Londonderry / derry would have a demonstration etc.

Thats it although I think there are something like 3000 parades once they are all added up - although that includes AOH, Republican, Apprentice Boys and Royal black parades too. Although the fugure is a little misleading as for instance on the 12th the parade in the local village is one parade and then the main demonstration is another when they are really connected to the same thing.

OK, I meant do the orange order ever carry banners of Protesant Republicans/nationalists or any banners to the Pope.

Kilsally

Flex wrote:

OK, I meant do the orange order ever carry banners of Protesant Republicans/nationalists or any banners to the Pope.

Why would a Protestant fraternity carry abanner of the Pope?
The majority of banners are biblical scenes...Moses and stone tablets, Joseph and coat, burning bushes...some have St Patrick, others things like the Battle of the Somme, others carry a banner of King William or some famous historical member of their Lodge. Since the GOLI at the present time is a Unionist organisation in Ireland and therefore as a patriotic organisation it would be anthema to carry such icons on there banners, there is however a growing embracing of the place in Irish Protestant history of the United Irishmen and such like.

Flex

Kilsally wrote:

Why would a Protestant fraternity carry abanner of the Pope?

Because of the huge emphasis placed on the Battle of the Boyne.

ronbyrne2005

bet the shinners will organise some counter demonstration etc although they will claim its not organised by sinnfein but the public arent stupid,if theres trouble at the love ulster demo the partys image will be further tarnished. please sinn fein supporters turn up and attack those dirty unionists and give your party more bad press and turn more of the public against you.

gurramok

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

bet the shinners will organise some counter demonstration etc although they will claim its not organised by sinnfein but the public arent stupid,if theres trouble at the love ulster demo the partys image will be further tarnished. please sinn fein supporters turn up and attack those dirty unionists and give your party more bad press and turn more of the public against you.

Also the opposite is true.
If a sectarian march is allowed, its likely to push voters who disagree with the staging of the march to the likes of from FF(the self-procalaimed republican party) to SF.

LordSutch

I dont see a problem with Northern Unionists/ Orange people marching in Dublin, and to be honest I think the march is long overdue, but what I do have a problem with is last years "Sinn Fein/IRA" March-Rally in Dublin - now that really was a disgrace. The reason for this genuine (2006 March) is to remember those who died in the Troubles, and to bring home the message to the South who the real victims were (The vast majority of victims being from the British/Orange/Uniomist community)! we should all be giving our full support to the Marchers instead of having a go at them, and anyway, why shouldnt we support a march to remember the victims??? (Its not a triumphalist march) and as for the Union Flag being flown 'Fair enough' after all, we do own one third of it!

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