McDowell Controversy

the1andonly1

I realise that there was another thread about this matter that was locked so I hope this one doesnt descend into more personal insults, but seeing as it's the main topic in politics today, I believe it needs to be discussed.

Frank Connolly seems to be a man of integrity, and was responsible for the setting up of the Flood/Mahon tribunal through his coverage of the allegations raised by James Gogarty. This had obviously left him open to attacks from those who didnt want the tribunal set up in the first place, some of whom are in power at the moment. I am not saying the Mr. Connolly has always been right (see his claims about Bertie Ahern, which have been dissproven) but he has tried to lift the lid on corruption in politics, and in the main, been proven right. In regards to the allegations in question (that he visted columbia on a false passport, wihth the intent of supplying information to the FARC gorrilla movement) I believe he has questions to answer. These questions only arise, as he is in a position of authority (he is head of the Centre for Public Enquiry), and therefore needs to appear "whiter than white". This though does not excuse the conduct of our Minister for "Justice". It is clear that there is no justice in what Michael McDowell has done, he has blackened the name of someone with whom he has a political grudge, based on the claim that he is defending national security. Even if these allegations are true, I dont see how publicising them has helped the security of the state. The DPP is apparently not going to proceed with its case, and therfore in the eyes of the law Mr. Connoly must be regarded as innocent of all accusations. For a minister of justice to usurp the authority of the DPP in this matter is wrong. He also leaked a document from a garda file (which would have been illegal for a guard to do, under an act brought into law by the very same minister for justice) to a close friend of his in the media, and then said that he had every right to do so. If this document was to be made public why did he not place it on record in the dail? This entire case stinks of an attempt to shut down the centre for public enquiry, and to blacken the name of a man who is innocent under law. McDowell should resign, but somehow I doubt it will happen.


(and so ends my longest post to date!)

meldrew

McDowell should be made resign , he is undermining the whole office of the Minister for Justice , to use the Dail for his own personal electoral gain is a disgrace and the longer he is left there the more damage he will do.

Rock Climber

the1andonly1 wrote:

Frank Connolly seems to be a man of integrity, This had obviously left him open to attacks from those who didnt want the tribunal set up in the first place, some of whom are in power at the moment.

If that be so, they took their time

but he has tried to lift the lid on corruption in politics,

Selectively I would suggest though. Blood being thicker than water,I'd imagine he's not too keen on examining the party and people his brother is associated with.

In regards to the allegations in question (that he visted columbia on a false passport, wihth the intent of supplying information to the FARC gorrilla movement) I believe he has questions to answer.

He definitely does.It's strange that he doesnt even try to establish his own whereabouts at the time that he is accused of being in columbia.The fact that he has gone to ground on this is fishy.

These questions only arise, as he is in a position of authority (he is head of the Centre for Public Enquiry), and therefore needs to appear "whiter than white".

correct

This though does not excuse the conduct of our Minister for "Justice". It is clear that there is no justice in what Michael McDowell has done, he has blackened the name of someone with whom he has a political grudge, based on the claim that he is defending national security. Even if these allegations are true, I dont see how publicising them has helped the security of the state.

Well he explained that one in the Dáil today.He claimed the man was in columbia helping the IRA train the Farc for which they would be paid with drug money that would ultimately fund Sinn Féin.

The DPP is apparently not going to proceed with its case, and therfore in the eyes of the law Mr. Connoly must be regarded as innocent of all accusations.

How do you know what the DPP will do?

For a minister of justice to usurp the authority of the DPP in this matter is wrong. He also leaked a document from a garda file (which would have been illegal for a guard to do, under an act brought into law by the very same minister for justice) to a close friend of his in the media, and then said that he had every right to do so.

He said today it wasnt from a Garda file, it was in the passport office and was brought to his attention in the dept of justice.Thats nothing to do with a Garda file.

If this document was to be made public why did he not place it on record in the dail?

Perhaps,its now in the hands of the DPP or the Gardai? why should the Dáil get to see it?

This entire case stinks of an attempt to shut down the centre for public enquiry,

How? You said yourself that its backers should be whiter than white.
Connolly himself could clear that up in a second by declaring that he was elsewhere and not in columbia.The CPQ has nothing to do with it.If the man is being wronged he should say so.
Whats more its imperative that he presents evidence of where he was and not in columbia because he could easily have McDowells head as something like that would be a resigning matter if mcDowell got this wrong.
The shít would stick to mcdowell and not connolly.

I hope connolly doesnt use the usual tactic of denial and not come up with the beef ie proof that he was elsewhere as to the ordinary man on the street, it just wouldnt wash.

ReefBreak

Frank Connolly seems to be a man of integrity

If he was in Columbia dealing with FARC, then he is FAR from a man of integrity. So far, everything he has said shows that he may well have been there with his scumbag-IRA brother.

the1andonly1

If that be so, they took their time

these allegations have been around for a while now, 3 years I think

Selectively I would suggest though. Blood being thicker than water,I'd imagine he's not too keen on examining the party and people his brother is associated with.

Perhaps, but that doesnt invalidate the work he did in exposing corruption in dublin

Well he explained that one in the Dáil today.He claimed the man was in columbia helping the IRA train the Farc for which they would be paid with drug money that would ultimately fund Sinn Féin.

While that is a matter of state security, how does publicising the name of the person involved in these allegations (which is all they are to date) benifit the security of the state? I mean the gardaí knew of them and would be able to monitor Mr. Connolly in any actions he was undertaking in Ireland. Publicising them doesnt seem to have any effect other than tarnishing the name of the man involved

Connolly himself could clear that up in a second by declaring that he was elsewhere and not in columbia.The CPQ has nothing to do with it.If the man is being wronged he should say so.
Whats more its imperative that he presents evidence of where he was and not in columbia because he could easily have McDowells head as something like that would be a resigning matter if mcDowell got this wrong.

It is my belief, that connolly is not disclosing his wherabouts on the occasions concerned due to legal advice on the possibility of a case been brought against him

How do you know what the DPP will do?

Michael McDowell would not have made these statements if there was going to be a trial on the matter, as they would prejudice any future actions by the DPP. Apparently, Mr. Connolly has not been told of this (from what he said on the news at one http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1207/connollyf.html link at the bottom of the page) and therfore has not do date given the details regarding his wherabouts at the time. Also Michael Mcdowell on the news at one (link at bottom of the page http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1212/connollyf.html) seems to agree with Sean O Rourke when he says that no prosecution will be taken. He certaintly doesnt say that one will be taken

Perhaps,its now in the hands of the DPP or the Gardai? why should the Dáil get to see it?

Well I think that disclosing it to a close friend of his, as opposed to the Dail must show that McDowell isnt dealing with this case in a proper manner. He admits giving the document to the independant in the interview he gave to the news at one. That to me is an abuse of privilege. If he was going to produce a document, why not do so to the Dail, where it would be on public record, instead he gave a certain paper a scoop.

the1andonly1

If he was in Columbia dealing with FARC, then he is FAR from a man of integrity. So far, everything he has said shows that he may well have been there with his scumbag-IRA brother.

He has said he was never in Columbia and has never travelled on a false passport.

ReefBreak

the1andonly1 wrote:

He has said he was never in Columbia and has never travelled on a false passport.

I don't believe him. He still won't say where he was during the alleged period. Plus, why is his photo on a fraudulent passport application form.

the1andonly1

He says that its not his photo.

ReefBreak

the1andonly1 wrote:

He says that its not his photo.

You know I would love to see that photo that he says isn't him. Because Sam Smyth, Chuck feeney, Michael McDowell and a host of others thought otherwise.

patzer117

I have to say I agree with McDowell. What was revealed was in the public interest - allegations against someone of high standing in our country. If he knew about them and said nothing then he could be seen as 'harbouring criminals' until the case came about. If this document was in the public domain, which apparently it was, then it is good that it was brought forward because now the allegations can be answered.

As for the idea of innocent until proven guilty - that's crap! By that logic nobody would be allowed to say anything until it was passed through the DPP. I, for instance, deny living in Ireland. Am i to be presumed innocent until a case is brought against me and I'm proved to be in the wrong? Or can someone say - you're crazy.

This man is alleged to have gone to Columbia. There is nothing illegal about that. The fact that McDowell released the allegation is a good thing because now it can be debated openly and he can argue his case openly. The DPP is never going to proscecute someone for going to Columbia - it's not illegal!

As for the false passport, that's another matter, but i'm fairly certain that there is truth behind it, and there is no harm in the allegation being brought to the attention of the public before the case is heard. It would be worrying if it wasn't in fact, because if he is guilty (no claim here) then leaving him in the position unchallenged, without any investigation, though harbouring grave suspicions, until he is proven guilty is grossly irresponsible.

You all seem to believe setting up the tribunals is a good thing - but how did they come to be set up? I believe Mr Connoly helped in the setting up by originally levelling accusations at individuals who were, by the innocent logic, still completely innocent. Was it wrong to level these allegations? Should they have been made? Or should we have waited until these allegations were dealt with by the DPP?
Of course that wouldn't have worked, because none of these men have been prosecuted and cannot be prosecuted for what they say in the tribunals - because you can't incriminate yourself.

So sometimes it is good to bring allegations about high ranking officials to light. We saw this from the tribunals. In my opinion these allegations are better above ground and above board, than being rumours and murmerings tainting the quality of the man. He should make his case NOW and get this over and done with.

patzer

gandalf

Whether Connolly travelled to Columbia or not is a side issue now. I certainly don't like the politics the man is associated with but the DPP decided there wasn't enough evidence to pursue a conviction.

The issue here is McDowell has used Dail privilage to make accusations that cannot be challanged. He has also shown favouritism towards one media organisation by giving only them the information. Not to mention he is a hypocrite considering he went mad over the Garda leak of information about the assault on his son a while ago. Funnily soon after that legislation was introduced by McDowell which means any Gardai caught leaking documents can do serious prison time. Should that legislation include the man charged with the Department over the Gardai as well.

the1andonly1

the1andonly1 wrote:

While that is a matter of state security, how does publicising the name of the person involved in these allegations (which is all they are to date) benifit the security of the state?

McDowell made a case for that from what I see so it's boiling down to whether people would agree with it or not.
The case according to him was that the IRA were to be paid for the job in columbia and that this money would find its way back to Ireland.
Given that McDowell already suggests what that money is used for, he has grounds for believing what he believes and has made a case for it.

Question is do we believe him-I'll come to that next.

It is my belief, that connolly is not disclosing his wherabouts on the occasions concerned due to legal advice on the possibility of a case been brought against him

Whether connolly was in the canaries or sitting at home with his wife,he must have some evidence of where he was at the time in question.
Theres no legal reason whatsoever for not saying where he was unless it Colombia in which case he wont be able to say where he was.
I sincerely hope he wasnt there for his sake.
But one thing is certain,he's doing his case a harm by not nailing what he states is untrue.

Hiding behind a solicitors supposed advice looks like Guff and the weakest of avoidance.

Well I think that disclosing it to a close friend of his, as opposed to the Dail must show that McDowell isnt dealing with this case in a proper manner. He admits giving the document to the independant in the interview he gave to the news at one. That to me is an abuse of privilege. If he was going to produce a document, why not do so to the Dail, where it would be on public record, instead he gave a certain paper a scoop.

I've two comments/questions here:
How do we know if McDowell and Sam Smyth are close friends ? (I'm genuinely unaware of the who is who in their lives so I'd like to know) and I just heard McDowell say he gave the information to the Independent because they asked for it and that he would have given it to another paper if they had asked

seatleon2000

meldrew wrote:

McDowell should be made resign , he is undermining the whole office of the Minister for Justice , to use the Dail for his own personal electoral gain is a disgrace and the longer he is left there the more damage he will do.

Agreed

gandalf

The one major problem here is if more evidence comes out that does mean the DPP can go ahead and prosecute Connolly McDowells actions may have now jeapordised this process and inhibit the states ability to get a conviction.

the1andonly1

How do we know if McDowell and Sam Smyth are close friends ? (I'm genuinely unaware of the who is who in their lives so I'd like to know) and I just heard McDowell say he gave the information to the Independent because they asked for it and that he would have given it to another paper if they had asked

I'm only going by what is said in the media, not a lot of which I trust, but it was mentioned on the vincent browne show last night, and it wasnt disputed by sam smith on the radio last week. On the case of whether it was given to the independant due to them requesting it, and not another paper, what if sam smith was the only journalist who knew about this document, through his friendship with mcdowell? therfore no-one else could have requested it, as they would not know of its existence. this is just pure speculation but if mcdowell wanted to avoid that, he should not have given it to someone who is known to be a friend of his

Pa ElGrande

I reckon there is no intention to prosecute Mr. Connolly only discredit him with unproven allegations. He has made some very powerful enemies within the Gardaí and Government and doubtless is aware of some facts that both parties do not want bought in the public view. There is more going on than what has been leaked to the press.

Nuttzz

Frank also said that Bertie took a 50k bung which turned out to be untrue

dodgy passport applications must run in his family...

A Dub in Glasgo

It is patently obvious that McDowell is only interested in discrediting Connolly and by extension the group that offends him, the CPI. Justice is an Amoeba on the list when it comes to the Minister for Justice.

McDowell has brought disgrace to the ethos of justice. McDowell should not resign, he should be sacked.

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

The one major problem here is if more evidence comes out that does mean the DPP can go ahead and prosecute Connolly McDowells actions may have now jeapordised this process and inhibit the states ability to get a conviction.

I'd agree.
I'm at a loss to understand why he didnt just do his usual stint and present the case on it's own rather than going through a journalist.

the1andonly1 wrote:

what if sam smith was the only journalist who knew about this document, through his friendship with mcdowell? therfore no-one else could have requested it, as they would not know of its existence. this is just pure speculation but if mcdowell wanted to avoid that, he should not have given it to someone who is known to be a friend of his

That would depend on when it was requested.
Theres enough lead in time there for any interested journalist to have looked for it.
But that said,Smyth does indeed appear to be friendly with McDowell so he could easily have been the first because of that relationship to track down McDowell and request the information or indeed been in a position because of his relationship to be able to track down McDowell more quickly.
I doubt for instance that the Daily Ireland would have McDowells mobile number:D but it seems plausible that Smyth would( Norah Owen on primetime tonight agreed with the presenter that its common knowledge that they are close friends )

Pa ElGrande wrote:

I reckon there is no intention to prosecute Mr. Connolly only discredit him with unproven allegations.

well Connolly could shoot this right out of the water by stating where he was when accused of being in Columbia-he wasnt in Columbia right? so why not show where he was.I dont buy this smokescreen of "oh its unproven"... Any sane individual would present proof to counter those allegations , it should be easy( eg bank statements,credit card statements,records of meetings attended-theres endless ways of doing it ) so I'd reckon theres two schools of thought here and only two (1) McDowell is wrong-which is very serious for him if Connolly can show this or (2) McDowell is right.

He has made some very powerful enemies within the Gardaí and Government and doubtless is aware of some facts that both parties do not want bought in the public view. There is more going on than what has been leaked to the press.

Thats a view yes and wouldnt it be an even more potent view if Connolly would gather up his bank statements and show that atm withdrawal he did in the shopping centre or the dinner he had in that restaurant or whatever.
Otherwise, its just fishy, the silence is far from Golden.

mike65

McDowell has done nothing wrong, as much as that annoys/worries some. He was asked a question he answered it, not breaking any laws. His 'leak' was'nt anything of the sort, Sam Smyth asked the Minister if he could shed light on Connelly and he supplied him with documents and the info is in the public domain.

Smyth is anti-provo there's no question and McDowell is a regular quest on The Sunday Supplement which is hosted by Smyth.

Connelly has had ample opportunity to 'prove' his innocence he has refused to talk to anyone about the accusation. To me his silence is damning.

Did anyone hear ex Judge Feargus Flood, of the Centre for Public Inquiry, this morning on RTE? He sounded very naive about Connelly.

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2098712.smil

Bit by bit the Provos and thier fellow travellers are chipping away at this state and most members of the 4 estates are asleep. The Columbia 3 are free, Dublin SF TDs are helped out by chaps in fake police uniforms, IRA members are running oil laundering scams, robbing banks and intimidating those who stand against them, they march through the streets of the capital in fatigues while thier fanboys shout Kill Kill Kill the RUC. This is not normal politics and yet its 'accepted' (with a shrug) by most people reading this I suspect.

McDowell is not asleep or shrugging.

Mike.

Peanut

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

It is patently obvious that McDowell is only interested in discrediting Connolly and by extension the group that offends him, the CPI.

That whole CPI org. sounds a bit iffy in the first place.
It gives the impression of a trying to use a grandious sounding title to impress a sense of unfounded authority, like the numerous fake third level 'institutes'.
That alone would make me wary of it's motives.

qwertyphobia

gandalf wrote:

The one major problem here is if more evidence comes out that does mean the DPP can go ahead and prosecute Connolly McDowells actions may have now jeapordised this process and inhibit the states ability to get a conviction.

Exactly like his party leader did when she made a statment about CJ Haughty and he was able to use that as a reason for the case against him being trown out. The PD's seam to be making a habit out of this.

Pa ElGrande

Earthman wrote:

Thats a view yes and wouldnt it be an even more potent view if Connolly would gather up his bank statements and show that atm withdrawal he did in the shopping centre or the dinner he had in that restaurant or whatever.
Otherwise, its just fishy, the silence is far from Golden.

I agree with you Mr. Connolly should account for himself and McDowell is right to question his motives. I also want to understand the motives of those behind McDowell.

Sponge Bob

1. Where Were you that April Frank ?, you was not working at the SBP it appears .

2. Did you , during that April , travel to France as Frank using Franks passport and travel back to Ireland from France as Frank using Franks passport 'some time later'

3. Do you accept that that passport which does not have your photo on it was used by someone to travel from France to Columbia and back to France while you were.......in France all the time of course

4. Do you have any further comment to make on this co-incidence , is it publicly enquireable about ...to coin a phrase ?

Sand

Bit by bit the Provos and thier fellow travellers are chipping away at this state and most members of the 4 estates are asleep. The Columbia 3 are free, Dublin SF TDs are helped out by chaps in fake police uniforms, IRA members are running oil laundering scams, robbing banks and intimidating those who stand against them, they march through the streets of the capital in fatigues while thier fanboys shout Kill Kill Kill the RUC. This is not normal politics and yet its 'accepted' (with a shrug) by most people reading this I suspect.

McDowell is not asleep or shrugging.

Well said. Most of the self proclaimed media watchdogs are practically whipped Quislings whilst all of the above is going on. The Irish Times today solidly came out behind Frank Connolly despite the very shaky defence that his support is based on. McDowell is the only Irish public figure with a spine these days, which is a very sad state of affairs.

Does anyone have a link to the copy of the application that was leaked? If it has the photo on it, it should be fairly clear if it is Frank Connolly or not. Another quick way for good old Frank to clear his name.

As for the DPP not proccessing charges, as I understand it they would have to prove that he possessed it in Ireland. Seeing as the passport wasnt used on the Dublin to Paris leg in either direction that would be very difficult. If they were going to try and prove he used it in Colombia theyd have to run an expensive trial, bringing witnessess from Colombia to do it. And the last sentence handed down for passport fraud was 200 hours community service. The DPP may simply feel its not worth the bother?

That whole CPI org. sounds a bit iffy in the first place.

Apparently the name was chosen to seem linked with the CPI in the US, the Center for Public Integrity which is well respected and has apparently won puitzers. Connolly tried repeatedly to get his organisation linked with the US one, but despite several offers of funded jaunts to Ireland the US CPI apparently got wind of who they were dealing with and refused any links.

Imo its a cover organisation, designed to "uncover" and release damaging stories against the establishment electoral party as and when it is of most benefit to SFIRA. O Snodaighs electoral workers/punishment gang had lists of TDs and drug dealers in one of their houses. Its assumed the drug dealers were to be extorted, but the TDs were to be spied on in an attempt to discover damaging information. They tried a similar trick against the SDLP in the recent elections in the north, but it backfired on them thankfully. Hopefully McDowells intervention will do away with this front organisation, but its likely SFIRA will attempt to build another one.

Orion

4 Simple Questions for Michael McDowell

1. Why did you provide a confidential Garda file to a foreign citizen?

2. Why did you provide a passport application form to a reporter who is known to be a close friend of yours despite your threat to prosecute any Gardai who 'leaked' files to the press?

3. What exactly is the matter of national security that you refer to? IOW how is Frank Connolly a threat to national security?

4. Why haven't you resigned yet?

samb

Macros42 wrote:

1. Why did you provide a confidential Garda file to a foreign citizen?

Why is the journalist's nationality important?

Orion

The journalist is Irish afaik - he was just given the passport application if you believed him on Q&A last night. I'm referring to McDowell showing the American Chuck Feeney of Atlantic Philanthropies the entire Garda file on Connolly.

MrSinn

If the state could prove anything then the state would prosecute him,Its all political points scoring by FF

Time Magazine

Right, you know that Michael McDowell is a member of the PD's and not FF right?

gandalf

I think you people need to separate Mr. Connelly now from McDowells behaviour. McDowell has abused his power and has endangered any future chances of prosecution here. Just because of that he should resign not to mention the favouritism towards one media organisation.

It also begs the question what were his true intentions here, was it because this CPI were investigating the sale of land for the new prison, a report that would be published before the next election, what happens if another journalist investigates something the PD's don't like.

As a sidenote if Connelly is innocent now is the time to give full and frank details of his movements, if he can actually do this then McDowell is finished and there is an outside chance this pack of muppets in government could be ousted at long last.