Child friendly big dogs

doctor evil

breeding and training can help determine how a dog will act, there is always the unpredictable element of any animal.

Khannie

First off...thanks for all the replies.

ApeXaviour wrote:

They are naturally non-aggressive

Hmmm. Ok, this point was reiterated lots of times throughout the thread but from this site:

Statistics show that some breeds are more likely to be involved in vicious attacks. European countries have banned or outlawed the import and breeding of breeds deemed dangerous.

I suppose the thing is that even with the best will in the world, there is /some/ chance that your child will get mauled by the family pet. That's something that is making me reconsider.

I'm certainly willing to put the time into training a pup and wouldn't mind the initial toilet training stage or anything like that but I think the best time to get a dog is probably after we're finished having children and they've passed infancy. That way we wouldn't be introducing babies to the dog, but rather a dog to children.

edit:

Interesting quote from the "dogs and kids" site:

The importance of sterilizing your animal cannot be overemphasized. Spaying and neutering your dog tends to reduce aggressive tendencies significantly. A U.S. survey of over 200 fatal dog attacks showed that in all but two cases the attacks were carried out by unneutered or unspayed dogs

**Timbuk2**

Go for a labrador...

They are great around kids and can also be a good guard dog...

Aisling(",)

I know a few St.Bernards that are very good with kids.Bit slobbery though so the kids get very wet

Our man in Havana

ok I have 11 dogs & whilst we do not have kids my neighbours do.

My rottweiller, lab, lax x newfoundland & borzoi x setter are FAB with kiddies.

My terriers are not! Especially my westie she is snappy & nasty with kids so we have to be eagle eyed with her - we have had german sheppards in the past & they are also FABO with kids. but saying that every dog is differnt & you have to watch how kids treat the dogs my neighbours daughter kicks & is very nasty to their dogs so much so that the collie bit the child on the face & was put to sleep but my neighbours still do not tell the child off when she kicks the 2 sheppards which is STUPID! Like humans dogs can & do snap.

If you want a german sheppard get one from a breader that has kids & see how the dogs are with the kids/babies etc.

ApeXaviour

Khannie wrote:

Hmmm. Ok, this point was reiterated lots of times throughout the thread but from this site:

Indeed there are some breeds that have an aggressive psychosis bred into them. German Shepherds not being one of them.

Khannie wrote:

I suppose the thing is that even with the best will in the world, there is /some/ chance that your child will get mauled by the family pet. That's something that is making me reconsider.

Yeah but... there's also a /some/ chance the ceiling will fall in on your child. Once the dog is of a gentle breed, neutered, brought up well etc. You can pass this off as negligible risk, like with lightning striking or some randomer throwing a petrol bomb through your window. I'd worry more about accidents that can happen around the household and on the road. They're far more likely/dangerous.

Khannie wrote:

but I think the best time to get a dog is probably after we're finished having children and they've passed infancy. That way we wouldn't be introducing babies to the dog, but rather a dog to children.

Inspite of what I said above I think this is a very good, well thought out idea. Dogs are like toddlers. A new child sapping the attention away from them would cause them to seek attention in often mischevious ways. Chew things up, pee on things etc.
Whereas introducing a child to a dog teaches them a lot, while letting the dog know it's place.

Khannie wrote:

Interesting quote from the "dogs and kids" site:

Yes. This is especially true for male dogs. It also prevents wandering tendancies and dog-dog anti-social behaviour. There is also the added incentive of not allowing lots of little stray dogs to be born where they will most likely have a meagre and short-lived existence.

BeardyGit

I don't know if this would be of any interest to you but I've a stray I picked up on Friday afternoon. I've tried everything I can think of to find his owners but it's been 3 days now and nobody's come forward (8 Garda Stations, Dog Warden, Pounds, Rescue Centres, Irish Animals.ie etc all notified with my phone number and address).

He's approx. 6 months old, house-trained, playful and (somewhat) obedient - Barring distraction with toys. He was found around the Pottery Road area in Dun Laoighre but a weekend spent in every park around the area has also failed to turn up anyone who recognises him. This could of course be explained by his incredibly good manner in cars - No bother to him to make long trips so I'm thinking he could be from miles away and have strayed while out for a walk in unfamiliar territory.

Mad about kids (and went ape when he saw a little girl in a pink jacket but neither she nor her dad knew him) so I'm sure he's come from a family with small kids. I'm losing hope of finding the owners. EVERYONE has said the pounds can't do anything but apply the final solution within a day or two at this time of the year.

I've an option to rehome him to Cork with a friends parents (who will treat him very well - This I know for sure) but I'd love to see him going to a loving family home where the kids will play with him too. Sorry about the long post.....I've attached a picture too if you're interested - He'll be a big dog, already the size of a border collie. BTW, he's been to the vets in Dundrum who reckon he's in good health (apart from needing a little bit of feeding up).

Anyway, PM me if you'd like to come meet him and see what you think - I'd hang on to him for a little while longer if you think he'd be a keeper.

Cheers,

Gil

Khannie

Thanks Gil. Probably would have taken you up on it, despite knowing that I should wait. Lovely looking dog.

Just phoned my better half there so the wisdom of:

me wrote:

I think the best time to get a dog is probably after we're finished having children and they've passed infancy. That way we wouldn't be introducing babies to the dog, but rather a dog to children.

is going to prevail.

I feel better knowing that you have a house for him though. Thanks for the offer though.

Nala

Khannie wrote:

I suppose the thing is that even with the best will in the world, there is /some/ chance that your child will get mauled by the family pet. That's something that is making me reconsider.

You can't assume that a dog is going to be vicious just because of its breed. It depends on HOW THEY WERE BROUGHT UP.

I've had cocker spaniels snap at me and at babies, yet I've petted Alsatians who didn't know me and they haven't so much as batted an eyelid.

My cat was attacked (and died because of her injuries) by a retriever who ran into our garden. Retrievers in general are a very gentle breed, but the owner kept the dog on a chain in the garden so it probably hadn't been socialised properly. Any dog can be vicious.

Khannie wrote:

I'm certainly willing to put the time into training a pup and wouldn't mind the initial toilet training stage or anything like that but I think the best time to get a dog is probably after we're finished having children and they've passed infancy. That way we wouldn't be introducing babies to the dog, but rather a dog to children.

but this bit is good.

Wibbs

Interesting question. Having had 2 German sheperds(among other breeds) over the years, I tend to agree on others posts regarding their child friendly attitude. As has been pointed out all breeds can be dangerous or safe depending on the individual dog. Some are worse(as that link pointed out), but GS are not one of them IMHO. In fact, I seem to recall a study that found that people were far more likely to be bitten by so called lap dogs and other small breeds, but as the damage was potentially much less, these cases were less likely to be reported.

GS and similar breeds can be more "wolf like"* in their behaviour. IE they have a strong pack instinct and once dominance is established socialisation problems are lessoned. They should regard the children as higher menbers of the pack heirarchy and act accordingly.

I would say that this lack of dominance in the owners is 90% of the difficulty with "problem" dogs. Regardless of how cute they may look, a dog is essentially a domesticated wolf, with all the complex social interactions of same. If people think a dog is a furry human problems can be the result, as the dog may get confused. You often see people hugging dogs and the dog may be busy licking it's lips repeatedly. This is a stress response in the animal, yet people think they love it.

I would go far as to say that any dog is capable of attacking a child. This is even more the case where the child isn't known to the dog. Childrens movements and sounds can trigger a prey attack response in borderline animals. As such I wouldn't let a large dog of any breed run loose with kids it didn't know. In the cases I've seen where a large powerful dog was safe around kids it was down to the owners. They were naturally dominant and the dog was happier knowing it's place.

*As an aside, I knew a chap in the states who used to rescue wolves and wolf dog hybrids and had a lot of experience both with (wild)wolves and the domesticated dog. His experience was that a pure wolf was significantly more nervous and submissive than the domesticated dog. This made them "safer" to be around as they understood and responded better if he acted correctly with them. He reckoned that his kids(who knew the ropes) were probably safer around the wolves than with domesticated dogs they didn't know. In fact he found that in the case of wolfdog hybrids, the higher the percentage of dog, the more likely one would find aggressive tendencies. Dogs have been bred over generations to be more aggressive than their wild cousins, as this was more advantageous in an animal designed as a protector of house and stock. In fact having a wolf as a watchdog would be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard, as their response to a threat is of the "get the F*** out of dodge" variety.

tj-music.com

It is very true to say that the majority of dogs simply mirror their environment. I always wonder why stupid eejits mostly seem to choose mastinos or pitbulls and don´t teach them useful tricks but are eager to find out how big the dog will get and how proud they are that their "little pet" can work through a big bone in no time.

It is not always the case but I noticed that there is a tendency of having more dangerous or more aggressive breads in people with a "less developed" intelligence.

In the majority of cases the owner is as guilty as the dog if not solely responsible for the actions.

fenris

We have a German Shepherd and a black lab, the GSD is the one that I trust more with out little chap (19 months old). We did a lot of work with the dogs before the baby came home, the mainpoints being:

1. screw up the dogs routine a bit
- feed later or earlier, in different places etc.
- if you are getting up late at night give the dog a rub or wake them up and let them go asleep again
- if they are asleep or lounging about in front of the fire move them out of the room for no aparent reason
Sounds cruel but these are the type of things that wil happen, this is to get the dogs used to the typical disruption caused by a baby, started before then baby arrives so that it is not the babies fault, try and simulate baby event effects on the dogs routine, eg getting turfed out fron in front of the fire because you need that space to change a nappy, its going to happen anyway, so start it early so that the dogs dont associate all the ills in the world with the babies arrival.

2. handle the dogs a lot, especially paws, ears and tail - all the bits a toddler and friends wil grab, get the dogs used to a bit of mauling so that the first reaction is not to try and nudge you away as visiting parents will think your dog tried to eat little Timmy.

3. Take food and toys away from the dogs and then give it back with a little bit extra when the dog doesnt react or try to grab or guard the food/ toy.

4. get the dogs used to getting up and walking away whenever they are being hassled by kids - our dogs get up and go to the nearest adult whenever a sprog gets too much, the dog gets buckets of praise even if the sprog gets knocked flat on its well padded arse. this means that teh dogs first resort is get away from the torment instead of trying to sort it in the traditional doggy manner and ending up being put down for objecting to lego being poked in its ears.

5. never leave kids and dogs together a nip or a scratch for a kid usually means a dead dog.

6. Dogs can get very protective of babies once they realise what they are, we made a point of handing out baby to visitors in front of the dogs for the first while, you dont need auntie mary geting a bit removed when trying to peep in at the sleeping baby while you are putting the kettle on!

7. have somewhere safe for the dogs to go that is out of bounds to kids, this lets the dogs have a safe place and not feel cornered. You need to protect your dogs from children as much as the other way around.

Worked for us so far, most of this came from a book called "dogs and children" it has gone walkies or been "tidyed" at the moment so I dont know who wrote it!

hunny

Hi Khannie,

I recently got a Bassett Hound and they have a great temperment and they are great with kids. People seem to think that they are a small dog but they are quite a big dog just low to the ground!! The only downside is they tend to slobber a bit.

shinners007

boxer dogs are ideal they look scary yet wouldnt harm a fly
i have kids aged 7 and 4 and they love max and gypsy our two boxers.
i also breed ikc boxer pups so pm if interested im in limerick
:rolleyes:

GristlyEnd

Have you considered a Pyrenean Mountain Dog? it is a very friendly breed but you do need the space for them and it must be well fenced. They do require a fair bit of maintance as there hair is almost wool like and it helps to brush them daily. They also need a 60-90 mins walk every day but it's as good for you as it is for him.

My Pyr (Meeko) is 15 months old, absolutely huge but I have loved every day of having him. Pic below isn't him but it gives you and idea of there size. They are great with children, especially newborns.

Apple Gal

I had a collie/sheep dog kinda thing and he was big but when I was born he used to babysit me all the time,he wouldn't let any strangers near me and he used to sleep beside me if I was in a chair or anything and he used to bark when I cried! He really was a very sweet dog!

Soupi

ApeXaviour wrote:

Do not get Pit bulls imo they have aggressiveness bred into them, dobermans to a lesser extent.

i hate when people sterotype Pit Bulls and bull terriers because of dog fighting decades ago. my boyfriend wants to get a Pit Bull and like every other ignorant person i aid no but i went onto the internet and researched them and found that they are brilliant with children, people and other animals and they are extremely intelligent dogs. the reason they were fought in the first place was because of how intelligent and obedient they are. it's a bit like why alsations are used as police dogs and labs/retrievers are used as guide dogs.

in my opinion bigger dogs are alot better than little yappy dogs. the only small dogs i would trust are from the bull terrier family, a boston terrier would be the best small dog for a family with small kids as they are so friendly and affectionate.

the post that Fenris put up was brilliant. when ever we get a puppy in the family we do all that with them, take their food away put them out every now and again and teach them to walk away from people or children that are tormenting them. we can all take food literally out of our dogs mouth and they always give it to us because they know that we're the boss and they always obey.

anyway good luck in the puppy search and when you do get one your life won't be the same and it's always for the best. a dog will give you uncondional love once you raise it right.

ApeXaviour

Soupi wrote:

i hate when people sterotype Pit Bulls and bull terriers because of dog fighting decades ago. my boyfriend wants to get a Pit Bull and like every other ignorant person i aid no but i went onto the internet and researched them and found that they are brilliant with children, people and other animals

That last bit is simply not true. Pretty much every pit-bull is dog-aggressive, probably more than any other breed. Do you, with all your research deny this? "The breed is [also] known for its high prey drive, and so due caution should be exercised when cats, rabbits, domestic fowl, and other such animals are present." - Pro - Pit Bull website

So not exactly brilliant with other animals then?

Granted pit-bulls are usually non-aggressive toward people. However there are the minority of them with defective temperments. This latter point has resulted in their bad reputation, not the dog fighting.
"Of the 199 dog-attack fatalities in the USA between 1979 and 1996, dogs identified as pit bulls were responsible for 60 attacks—just under a third. The next most-dangerous group was Rottweilers, responsible for 29 attacks" - Wiki entry on pit-bulls, corroborated up by cdc

Soupi wrote:

the reason they were fought in the first place was because of how intelligent and obedient they are.

I very much doubt that's the case. I'd say it had a lot more to do with their strength, stature and dog-aggressive tendancies.

They are, without a doubt, the most dangerous breed of dog. A person IMHO would be extremely foolish to bring one into a home with children...

Dave!

What about a Saint Bernard?

Cutie18Ireland

we have a pom and hes great with kids... just likes to fight sometimes too lol he's a little hyper! best to have them grow up with the kids though so they are used to them like

Soupi

ApeXaviour wrote:

That last bit is simply not true. Pretty much every pit-bull is dog-aggressive, probably more than any other breed. Do you, with all your research deny this? "The breed is [also] known for its high prey drive, and so due caution should be exercised when cats, rabbits, domestic fowl, and other such animals are present." - Pro - Pit Bull website

any dog will be aggresive towards other dogs if they're not socialised properly and it's true with the Pit Bull too "By no means are these dogs people-haters or people-eaters. Their natural aggressive tendencies are toward other dogs and animals, not people. However if they are properly socialized they will not even be aggressive with them. These are truly quality companions for quality owners only!" taken from dogbreedinfo.com.

ApeXaviour wrote:

So not exactly brilliant with other animals then?

Granted pit-bulls are usually non-aggressive toward people. However there are the minority of them with defective temperments.

Every dog breed has a minority with defective breeding!!!

ApeXaviour wrote:

This latter point has resulted in their bad reputation, not the dog fighting.
"Of the 199 dog-attack fatalities in the USA between 1979 and 1996, dogs identified as pit bulls were responsible for 60 attacks—just under a third. The next most-dangerous group was Rottweilers, responsible for 29 attacks" - Wiki entry on pit-bulls, corroborated up by cdc

the government often runs biased reports on "so-called" vicious dogs and label certain breeds as the predators but you have to bear in mind that there are so many Pit Bulls,Rottweilers and German Shepards in America,they are the most popular breeds,that there are bound to be fatalities. the report you talk about spans over 17 years so that makes an average of 3-4 fatalities a year for Pit Bulls when there are approx 10 million Pit Bulls owned in America. what you failed to say were the reports from dog bites,the dogs that were up in the list were pomeranians and yorkshire terrier type dogs that are babied because they are small and spoiled. you should read an independant report done on dog attacks www.fataldogattacks.com/ the media also have alot to answer for when it comes to reporting Pit Bull attacks,sometimes they say the breed is a Pit Bull when in actual fact they don't know what breed it was. "The media stirs the pot with stories about rampaging pit bulls and deadly attacks, and the public is frightened" www.canismajor.com/dog/amstaff.html

ApeXaviour wrote:

I very much doubt that's the case. I'd say it had a lot more to do with their strength, stature and dog-aggressive tendancies.

of course they're strenght is alot to do with it but they're loyalty and intelligence was their downfall in this. this is the reason why police use them to search out drugs and bombs "One Pit Bull, Popsicle (named that because he was found in an old freezer) has the largest recorded single drug find in Texas history." you can read 10 things you didn't know about Pit Bulls here /www.pitbulllovers.com/pit-bulls-ten-things-you-should-know.html

ApeXaviour wrote:

They are, without a doubt, the most dangerous breed of dog. A person IMHO would be extremely foolish to bring one into a home with children...

they are not at all the most vicious breed of dog, far from it "The American Temperament Test Society continually ranks Pits better in temperamnet than many other breeds such as the Airedale Terrier, Basenji, Beagle, Bichon Frise, etc, all score below average and many more far below than that of the Pit Bull. Even though their temperament score is less than average many would not even think twice in their ownership as a family pet." www.pitbullregistry.com/unwaranted%20negative%20stigma.htm

Pit Bulls are loyal, courageous, and fun-loving companions, good with considerate children, guardians of home and hearth, and affectionate to family relatives and friends.

Kojak

Bambi wrote:

Why is an alsatian out of the question? I've had a few and they were amazing with kids, its as much the dog's temperment and its upbringing that will make them kid friendly as it is the breed.

I totally agree, bambi. When I was young (1 or 2) my parents had an alsatian and she never bit or harmed me. It is the dogs temperment rather than the breed of dog. You can have small dogs, for example terriers, who can be vicious little fu*ks.

rogue-entity

The best advice that I can give you if you have young children is to get a Labrador bitch. Or a bitch of any of the breeds realy. They tend to be less agressive then there male counterparts.

I disagree with the "dangerous dogs act" that classifies Dobermann's and Alsations as dangerous. They can be the most gentle of all dogs, if they are adjusted properly. A friend of our family had a german shepard. She would bark, and bare her teeth at anyone that approached her, but as soon as the owner said to the dog to relax, that it was okay, she would instantly become the friendliest thing you can imagine.

I also disagree that a dog should be put down just for biting someone, especialy if it is on your private property. It may have been accidental, the person may have startled the dog or threatend it. And yet the poor dog still gets put down for following its instincts.

tinkerbell

I'd definitely go for a Newfoundland.

We had one when I was younger, and oh she was amazing. So adorable, gentle, so well behaved and such a good guard dog as well. She was a huuuuuuge doggy but even when my cousins came up who were quite small at the time, she'd let them lie up against her and she wouldn't budge. Lovely lovely lovely doggy.

My boyfriend loves labradors, but I still prefer the Newfoundland - nothing compares to a Newfoundland in my opinion. The male is a lot bigger than a female now - you're talking the size of a small donkey! We had a female but I saw a male once and his paws were the size of my hands!! But he was so cute!

So gentle, so adorable, I'd really say that they are great as a family dog. They are also more gentle than St Bernards too, if you were to choose between a NewF and a St B.

peasant

now that almost all large breeds have been recommended, I'd like to point out one more thing:

Equally as important as getting a "child friendly" dog is to have:

DOG FRIENDLY CHILDREN !!!

Ahh ...slight problem ...how do you know if they are or not?

So, you have to teach children to treat a dog nicely, not to hurt it, not to startle it, not to provoke it. Until the child has fully understood these rules, it needs to be supervised when together with the dog.

Same goes for the dog ...any dog ...regardless of breed.

Leaving dogs and small children unsupervised is asking for trouble ....no matter how gentle the dog is supposed to be (according to aunty Biddy or the friend of a friend who had the same breed)

smodgley

due to very unfortunate circumstances we had to take a boxer dog off our neighbour,( nothing to do with the dog i should add) we have 4 kids ages from 6 to 6 months the boxer is just amazing with kids.he his so good with them.i would recomend that if you were to get a dog to get a boxer they are a really fantastic breed.good luck in what ever you decide,let us know:D

idontknowmyname

I've grown up around Alsations, even had one myself, all completely child friendly, it's how they're raised will usually determine their nature. When I was six I used to play in my aunts garden with her Alsation who was twice the size of me, my mum would stand at the kitchen window and tell me to come in because the dog was dangerous, I would turn around to her and would say "He won't go near me because I'm not scared of him, dogs will only go for you if you show your scared", then I got an Alsation myself, loved her to bits, all the neighbours kids loved her.

Also had a border collie, needs an hour walk a day, but very placid