Alfa 156 "no log book"

HashSlinging

Guys, I've been thinking of buying a 156 for the wife, '00, 56k, recently serviced and NCT's but the service history log book has gone missing when I'm just about to close the deal.... Do I trust this guy.. She really wants me to get it, but I really dont.

hartytkd

I'd get him to order a replacement (easy enough if servicing was done at one dealer) as the car will be more difficult to sell on afterwards - especially as it is an Alfa!

You could also ring the garage/dealer to verfiy the service history.

Ratchet

you can go to garda station and check if he is the owner then fill out special form at the station and replacement logbook will go to you directly

hartytkd

Ah, did you mean the servicing log-book or the proof of ownership log-book? I thought modern cars now just have a sort of certificate rather than the old type log-books. Anyway, don't hand over the cash without having both!

Good luck with your purchase. I assume you've checked the Alfa vitals (timing belt @ 37k, oil changes, dodgey suspension, etc.)

HashSlinging

actually havent really checked anything, tell me what I should be looking for, thanks !! happy christmas.

MercMad

If it is a dealer or even an individual get him to write out the name of the current owner, the number of owners, the reg and chassis numbers and any other information you deem neccesary.

Make this into an official letter from him to you, stating the certs have been lost and that replacements have been ordered. He should agree a full and total refund if all is not as it should be.

If you both sign it then it is a legal document. If he refuses to do this then walk !

Lets face it you wont be long looking for another 156 !

hartytkd

The main items to check on the 156 are:

Timing belt at around 40k miles (This is a €1200 job I believe)
Front suspension wears quickly (listen for squeaking over bumpy roads)
Erractic electrics (check intermittant wipers work at all speeds, electric windows, sunroof etc.)
A/C coolant leaks (if you have A/C, check that it runs cold)
Water leaks (check stains on carpets and in boot)
Variator on pre '01 Twin Spark models (should be done along with the timing belt - check the engine runs smothly when you rev it)
Heavy tyre wear, especially on the V6 (check the inside of the front tyre as Alfas run with lots of camber)
Also, check the paint is on good condition - some 156 out there have badly mis-matched/faded paint.
V6 is pretty heavy on the dinosaur juice, even for a 2.5.
They need regular oil changes so check this has been religiously done!
There have been some instances of the bonnet coming open at high speed - make sure the catch is properly greased.
Post '02 (non Twin-Spark) has better dash, more options and more economical engines.

el tel

MercMad wrote:

Lets face it you wont be long looking for another 156 !

Absolutely - the golden rule: there's always another car.

(plus the silver rule: if there's a doubt, then there is no doubt)

ds20prefecture

Walk away. There's currently 122 Alfa 156s for sale on CBG.ie and I would say that most of them have service histories and ownership log books.

That is your budget? What engine do you want? Saloon or estate?

MercMad

Yeah I mean you can literally pick your exact spec and go out and find it ! Probably used buyers have more choice than new car buyers when it comes to the 156 !

Absolutely - the golden rule: there's always another car.

(plus the silver rule: if there's a doubt, then there is no doubt)

...........very true indeed !

Mailman

From experience I can tell you that regardless of what Alfa 156 you are considering buying it is well worth the money to get it checked by an Alfa Specialist before paying your money.
The things that can and do go wrong on an Alfa are wide, varied and uniformly expensive.
An Alfa specialist will find all except those that the seller has gone to great lengths to conceal.
An alfa specialist will not be able to view a car straight away but it's worth waiting for the specialist and if the seller doesn't want the car inspected then walk away quickly.
An ordinary mechanic will not be able to diagnose most of the faults on an Alfa because they don't have familiarity with the machine.

hartytkd

el tel wrote:

Absolutely - the golden rule: there's always another car.

(plus the silver rule: if there's a doubt, then there is no doubt)

If you don't trust the seller, walk away!:D

hartytkd

Mailman wrote:

From experience I can tell you that regardless of what Alfa 156 you are considering buying it is well worth the money to get it checked by an Alfa Specialist before paying your money.
The things that can and do go wrong on an Alfa are wide, varied and uniformly expensive.
An Alfa specialist will find all except those that the seller has gone to great lengths to conceal.
An alfa specialist will not be able to view a car straight away but it's worth waiting for the specialist and if the seller doesn't want the car inspected then walk away quickly.
An ordinary mechanic will not be able to diagnose most of the faults on an Alfa because they don't have familiarity with the machine.

If you have a solid list of things to look for, a few basic checks should rule out most basket cases. Always is a good idea to bring someone with you that know what they are doing.

Anyway, I'd take a car that has had specialist maintenance, rather than main dealer FIAT/ Alfa maintenance any day. They have a terrible reputation that in my experience (or more specifically my sister's experience of a Punto) is well deserved. :rolleyes:

That said, there are a few decent FIAT/Alfa dealers out there - check the dealer's sticky at the top of the board.

ds20prefecture

Mailman wrote:

From experience I can tell you that regardless of what Alfa 156 you are considering buying it is well worth the money to get it checked by an Alfa Specialist before paying your money.

Good advice, but I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your post. Hartytkd's check list shows not only the common faults, but also how to check for them. I've added one or two fairly obvious comments - basically, like any car, a service history is essential.

Timing belt at around 40k miles - check the service history - budget €1000
Front suspension wishbone bushes wears quickly (listen for squeaking over bumpy roads) - budget €400 to replace
Erractic electrics (check intermittant wipers work at all speeds, electric windows, sunroof etc.)
A/C coolant leaks (if you have A/C, check that it runs cold)
Water leaks (check stains on carpets and in boot) - particularly if it has a sunroof. Also check for stains in the roof lining
Variator on pre '01 Twin Spark models (should be done along with the timing belt - check the engine runs smothly when you rev it) - also check for diesely sound on startup
Heavy tyre wear, especially on the V6 (check the inside of the front tyre as Alfas run with lots of camber)
Also, check the paint is on good condition - some 156 out there have badly mis-matched/faded paint.
They need regular oil changes so check this has been religiously done! - again, service history
There have been some instances of the bonnet coming open at high speed - make sure the catch is properly greased.

Mailman

No, bring it to an alfa specialist. I've been there and seen just how badly things can go wrong with a straight looking Alfa 156.
Brought along friend with some mechanical experience and buyer's guide checklist from Alfa156.net at the time and it still wasn't enough.

All kneel down and bow to the voice of experience.

hartytkd

Mailman wrote:

No, bring it to an alfa specialist. I've been there and seen just how badly things can go wrong with a straight looking Alfa 156.
Brought along friend with some mechanical experience and buyer's guide checklist from Alfa156.net at the time and it still wasn't enough.

All kneel down and bow to the voice of experience.

This can happen with any car, not just an Alfa.

That said, bringing the car to a specialist to get it checked out certainly won't hurt.

hmmm

I wouldn't touch a car without a service history. For one, it makes it more difficult for the seller to clock.

Mailman

OK. don't bring it to a specialist but don't say you weren't warned.

An Alfa is not a Micra or an Avensis. The things you take for granted as never needing to be touched will go pop on an Alfa and are engine out jobs.

michaelanthony

Sounds dodge. You'd want to give the car a full going over in the absence of a service history.

HashSlinging

guys, this guy says the timing belt was done, I had a look at it (pulled the plastic cover back) at it was very shiny, it had a yellow line on it but it looked to worn for 3k miles. He said it was replaced 3k miles ago.

The timing belt on my corrolla was done and after 10k it still looks new, you can still see the writing on the belt.

hartytkd

I'd run away quickly. This guy sounds like a scammer to me.
Remember you can afford to be very fussy with a 156 in the current market.:D

Mailman

either he has a receipt for the job or he did it himself.

If he did it himself then he bought a special tool to reset the timing. Could probably find out from that but I wouldn't bother; I'd look for somebody who has got receipts for the work done.

Eoin

What's going on folks? A thread about Alfas, and all the responses have been sensible and accurate - not even one mention of "FIAT"?

Mailman

Ask for NCT form or did he happen to loose that form too. NCTS might supply the milage info. from that.

SouperComputer

In any case, you should NEVER buy the first, or even second car you view. As the guys have said, there are plenty of these about and it ALWAYS pays to shop around.

The car may be legit, but dont waste your time and energy trying to suess it out. Use that time to view other cars!

Thats my 2c

mike65

Be strong and tell the fella "thanks but no thanks". That costs nothing, the alternative may cost thousands.

Mike.

Murt10

Are you sure you could live with one of these with or without a service history. You will spend a lot of tome and money getting it fixed..

"9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Only 87% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems;"

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?url=/carbycar/index.htm

unkel

As said above, if you're looking for a 156, it is a buyers market. If it sounds vaguely dodgy (and it does), just walk away, don't bother bringing it to a specialist to check it out

SouperComputer wrote:

In any case, you should NEVER buy the first, or even second car you view

Why not? I do typically buy the first car I view

Obviously I'd have done my homework. Researched the type and year of car and the market value, checked insurance quote and more importantly, called the buyer with my big checklist ready. If I like the answers to my questions and if I am ready to buy that car depending on my assessment of what my negotiation result will be, I go view

After viewing and driving the car and negotiating a very good value for money price, I'd have the car tested by a specialist and I'd do a background check (owners, crashes, etc.)

eoin_s wrote:

What's going on folks? A thread about Alfas, and all the responses have been sensible and accurate - not even one mention of "FIAT"?

Yeah, but of course it wasn't to last

Murt10 wrote:

Are you sure you could live with one of these with or without a service history. You will spend a lot of tome and money getting it fixed..

SouperComputer

in fairness Unkel, id say the calibre of car you are looking at are generally more exclusive and higher end. ie generally more likely to be looked after.

I think especially if a buyer is not fully au fait [sp] with examining a car, it always helps to look at a few cars.

I guess what I said was meant for the vast majority of people should not jump in at the first "bargain" they see, espcially when a car "looks" great. Its not good for competition and in some cases of course people have ended up buying a lemon.

TempestSabre

Trust your gut instinct and walk.

Great info in this thread though...gold stars alround.

HashSlinging

guys thanks for everything, walked away.. looked at a MINT accord today its stunning, the same year, only 60k miles, full documented history as well as timing belt at 53k, and only 300 euros more than the 156!!! need-less to say I put deposit on it.

Thanks for the help. very happy with the decision I made with the help from everyone.