[article] Sinn Fein expell IRA-British Agent erm...

TomF

I don't understand why Gerry Adams advised Donaldson to consult with his solicitor. What's a solicitor going to tell him? That Donaldson's employment contract with Sinn Féin has a clause forbidding spying on the organisation for the British government? That Donaldson should look through the peep-hole in his front door before opening it to callers?

Will Sinn Féin ask Donaldson to refund his salary for those 20 years? Is the solicitor going to fight to prevent that?

Is Donaldson's solicitor the same one that "Steakknife" may have consulted? Someone seems to be protecting Freddie Scappaticci from an early demise or from "unfortunate" accidents.

Running Bing

meldrew wrote:

EVERYTHING sinn fein do is carefully orchestrated to get the maximun publicity and this is no exception

Look its well established that sinn fein are hard to trust and fair enough I can see why many people dont believe a word out of their mouths. But british security forces are just as bad. Im sure this incident is only the tip of the iceberg. When the news of the spy ring broke everybody cited it as further proof that sf cant be trusted so why isnt this incident being treated the same for british intelligence? How can we believe anything they tell us. Afterall has any solid evidence been found linking the ira to the northern bank roberry? Nope just the word of senior security personnel? Why should they be believed any more than sf.

I find it very hard to take peoples views seriously when its clear they just have a personal vendetta against sinn fein and dont seem to care about the facts. How can this thread descend into the usual sinn fein bashing excercise with the content of the article?. Surely blame must be given to british intelligence for hampering democratic progress as it is so often given to sinn fein.

dahamsta

meldrew wrote:

EVERYTHING sinn fein do is carefully orchestrated to get the maximun publicity

I'm not fan of SF, but this differs from every other political party how exactly?

donaldson admitted that stormontgate was a sham.why did the british want to bring down stormont?

MrPudding

TomF wrote:

I don't understand why Gerry Adams advised Donaldson to consult with his solicitor. What's a solicitor going to tell him? That Donaldson's employment contract with Sinn Féin has a clause forbidding spying on the organisation for the British government? That Donaldson should look through the peep-hole in his front door before opening it to callers?

Wow, you are really funny!

Donaldson was "turned" by the security forces and effectively forced to become a spy. You have to presume that there was some kind of threat, legal or otherwise, made against him in order to compell him to turn. I don't think that given this and the whole spy ring debacle that it is unreasonable to seek legal advice.

Further, do you have information on what is in his contract? Perhaps there is a "conduct unbecoming of a SF worker" clause. There could be any number of reasons why a legal consultation might be required.

MrP

Victor

Cork wrote:

Look how fast the shinners moved in comparisson to the murder of Robert McCartney.

Thats hard to say, seeing as Stormontgate has been brewing for years.

Babybing wrote:

I find it very hard to take peoples views seriously when its clear they just have a personal vendetta against sinn fein and dont seem to care about the facts.

ASre you talking about boardsies, Donaldson or Securocrats.

ghostdancer

Deleted User wrote:

donaldson admitted that stormontgate was a sham.why did the british want to bring down stormont?

that's what i'm wondering aswell, i'm finding it hard to get my head round it all.

tommy gorman said on RTE last night that Paisley has been refusing his security briefings that he's entitled to (due to being part of the privy council now), because he knew of what was going on, but didn't want to have formal confirmation of it, so as to not put himself in a position where he was aware that it was part of a british plot to bring down the assembly.

also, someone I know heavily involved in NI politics, said that Special Branch were going to name his an informer within the next week or so, due to all the questions being asked, and what a mess the whole situation was for them, so he came clean to SF, as he knew it was coming out anyway. don't know how true that is, but just thought i''d mention it anyway....

Sand

Donaldson was "turned" by the security forces and effectively forced to become a spy. You have to presume that there was some kind of threat, legal or otherwise, made against him in order to compell him to turn.

When was he turned? Before or after the raid on Stormont? That might have been the threat, legal or otherwise, you refer to that compelled him to turn?

And Im still unclear as to why the evil securocrats suddenly sabotaged their own plot and threw SFIRA a publicity coup?

pete

Sand wrote:

When was he turned? Before or after the raid on Stormont? That might have been the threat, legal or otherwise, you refer to that compelled him to turn?

20 years ago, apparently as a result of his arrest in 1981.

And Im still unclear as to why the evil securocrats suddenly sabotaged their own plot and threw SFIRA a publicity coup?

Because the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, possibly? As I understand it, it is considered something of a necessity that the identity of secret informers be kept, well... secret.

mike65

The Sinners must be a bit freaked by this, a senior figure unsuspected for 20 years. Its not like he's the first, how many more are there?

Mike.

MrPudding

Sand wrote:

When was he turned? Before or after the raid on Stormont? That might have been the threat, legal or otherwise, you refer to that compelled him to turn?

According to MrD himself he was "caught in a compromising position at a very vunerable point in his life." I might not have the words exactly but you will find the statement on the front page of the times.

MrP

deiseach

Cork wrote:

How many lives did this guy save by passing on information?

This was the same kind of logic to defend Brian Nelson, who conspired to commit murder to, er, prevent people being murdered.

I would say the answer to your question is: none. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it is a reasonable assumption

Sand

Because the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, possibly? As I understand it, it is considered something of a necessity that the identity of secret informers be kept, well... secret.

Well A) British Intelligence was never shy about warning police away from people before. And it certainly is a necessity that secrets be kept secret so why would the evil securocrats reveal this secret. Allegedly they were threatening to blow his cover. Why?

The Baler

mike65 wrote:

The Sinners must be a bit freaked by this, a senior figure unsuspected for 20 years. Its not like he's the first, how many more are there?

Mike.

We should all be 'freaked out' about this.

It seems quite crazy that the IRA and their campaign in the north had so much success while all the time the British had their finger on the pulse all through the whole episode.

The British are guilty of terrorism by association and this follows up from the disgraceful outing of Nelson and the unresolved murder of Mr Scobie another tout from the FRU and RUC/PSNI.

The whole stormontgate thing is plain disgusting and the posters on this site who put forward the argument that Sinn Fein is the guilty party is simply ridiculous. The British and their stooges have murdered all in the name of 'protecting society' but their tactics are considered alright. Murder is murder no matter what side you are on!

IMO the only credible peace party in the north is SF as all the others (well maybe not the SDLP) seem to be only interested in maintaining Direct Rule.

I hope all those on here would look at the whole affair with an open mind.

Hagar

Victor wrote:

Politicly yes, morally, maybe not.

So politics of questionable morality are acceptable ?

It just makes me wonder who are the British moles in Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour?

It would be rash to think they don't exist.

pete

Sand wrote:

Well A) British Intelligence was never shy about warning police away from people before. And it certainly is a necessity that secrets be kept secret so why would the evil securocrats reveal this secret. Allegedly they were threatening to blow his cover. Why?

A) You do realise that it's quite possible that the handlers of such a prized informer kept his existence so secret that even their colleagues were not aware of his identity?

Because someone screwed up?

Cork

Hagar wrote:

It just makes me wonder who are the British moles in Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour?.

SF was the political wing of the terrorist/criminal IRA. Labour, FF and FG have followed democratic politics when the IRA were planting bombs in trash cans.

I am would not be suprised if the British Security forces had more ajents in SF.

BuffyBot

We should all be 'freaked out' about this.

It seems quite crazy that the IRA and their campaign in the north had so much success while all the time the British had their finger on the pulse all through the whole episode.

So you're claiming that an informant in SF should have passed information on to the British Government about a completely unconnected terrorist organisation - which, of course is what the IRA is....isn't it?

The Baler

BuffyBot wrote:

So you're claiming that an informant in SF should have passed information on to the British Government about a completely unconnected terrorist organisation - which, of course is what the IRA is....isn't it?

No, I am not saying what you are implying. I know Sinn Fein is a completely democratic organisation with close links to the Irish Republican Army. That does not meanthey are the one and same organisation. The DUP have had close links to a number of terrorist loyalist organisations i.e Ulster Resistance, UVF, etc. Does that make Rev Ian a terrorist? No it doesn't so please don't go trying to twist my words Buffy. Merci Beacoup!

I was trying to say, unclear and all as it was, that the British Government has a lot to explain with regard to their dirty war in the north.

Does Tony Blair really know what is going on up there? Has he given too much freedom to his security heads in the NIO? I believe that the rotten eggs in the security forces in the north now need to be pulled back and checked.
Maybe their work hepled save lives in the past but in this age of Peace do we really need a force within a force contiuning a war that is over? I think not.

Sinn Fein and the SDLP are the only parties in the north which want power sharing all the others can't get to grips with the fact that we need to move forward and forget the past.

ronbyrne2005

adams and co. could have known he was a spy and he could have been bluffing the brits .i dont know what the true story is up i dont think its a simple case of sinn fein man was brit spy.

jerryp

The only thing you can say with certainty about the Provos is that they are riddled with unprincipled /anti-democratic fascists who are now trying to capture the minds of young voters who are not being told what the real story from1970 on was.Just look at the book jointly written by David McCitterick.Which organisation carried out most murders amongst Catholics ?Yep,the freedom fighters themselves,many of whom now enjoy the fruits of their "revolutionary activities" with houses in Donegal and "security" firms in receipt of under-the -counter payments from publicans,etc.When they eventually merge with the other "republican" party (F.F.),it will be a match made in heaven,given the strong culture in that party as personified by Burke,Lawlor,Callelly and ,of course,the daddy of them all C.J.H.

Peanut

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

adams and co. could have known he was a spy and he could have been bluffing the brits .i dont know what the true story is up i dont think its a simple case of sinn fein man was brit spy.

Yes he could have been a double agent, for some of the time at least.
It's impossible to prove, but I also don't believe that it's a simple case where his allegiances were to the British up until yesterday. It seems not entirely clear-cut, at least judging from his expressions of remorse in the televised statement.

A Dub in Glasgo

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

adams and co. could have known he was a spy and he could have been bluffing the brits .i dont know what the true story is up i dont think its a simple case of sinn fein man was brit spy.

Possible and it is also possible that Donaldson was an alien sent to earth to mess with the peace process

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Possible and it is also possible that Donaldson was an alien sent to earth to mess with the peace process

Now that is tinfoil hat stuff.
It's reasonable to speculate on double agents,they been known to exist but aliens well frankly no.

A Dub in Glasgo

I accept that the alien proposition is a tad far fetched but so is the proposition and the SF leadership knew Donaldson was a British agent and decided to play along.

Aliens do exist, I have seen the film of them

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I accept that the alien proposition is a tad far fetched but so is the proposition and the SF leadership knew Donaldson was a British agent and decided to play along.

It seems just as plausable as any other proposition..But I'd agree with you I think it unlikely aswell.Thats no reason though to dismiss it out of hand as tinfoil hat as for all we know it *could* be possible.
He was outed in my opinion probably because of Paisley being on the Privy council.

Diorraing

Peanut wrote:

Yes he could have been a double agent, for some of the time at least.
It's impossible to prove, but I also don't believe that it's a simple case where his allegiances were to the British up until yesterday

That doesn't change the fact that the Brits had a spy in Sinn Fein (whether he was a double agent or not). They still believed they had a spy in SF.

Victor

Earthman wrote:

Now that is tinfoil hat stuff.
It's reasonable to speculate on double agents,they been known to exist but aliens well frankly no.

Then why do we have the ALIENS ACT, 1935? Ireland recognises the existance of aliens.

jank

Look its well established that sinn fein are hard to trust and fair enough I can see why many people dont believe a word out of their mouths. But british security forces are just as bad. Im sure this incident is only the tip of the iceberg. When the news of the spy ring broke everybody cited it as further proof that sf cant be trusted so why isnt this incident being treated the same for british intelligence? How can we believe anything they tell us. Afterall has any solid evidence been found linking the ira to the northern bank roberry? Nope just the word of senior security personnel? Why should they be believed any more than sf.

I find it very hard to take peoples views seriously when its clear they just have a personal vendetta against sinn fein and dont seem to care about the facts. How can this thread descend into the usual sinn fein bashing excercise with the content of the article?. Surely blame must be given to british intelligence for hampering democratic progress as it is so often given to sinn fein

Totally agree. Much easier to have a good ol Sinn Fein witch hunt then to ask awkward questions of the British involvment of this whole affair. Some people say that Sinn Fein are paranoid about everything...but when this stuff goes on and its not the first time, can you blame them???

Diorraing

jank wrote:

Some people say that Sinn Fein are paranoid about everything...but when this stuff goes on and its not the first time, can you blame them???

No I can't blame them and I'm gettin really fed up waiting for evidence on the Northern Bank job aswell. I'm not going to accept people blaming that on the IRA until I see some evidence. The constant SF bashing is a ploy to dodge the hard questions